Why do you believe in the trinity when God and his word is simple

[Maurious Paul]

I'm not J/W. And I've referred to the original text from Greek.

I think I've to clear things up. First All of you agree that we are "The Image" of God.

First what are we,

we possess our presence in the physical form called as "The Body" - God(has one himself(not physical but spiritual))

we possess our presence in the mental form called as "The Mind/The Soul"- Holy Spirit(Spirit of God)

Our Body and Mind collaborates and gives birth to our thoughts in the form of "The Word" - Messiah(Word of God)

You can't separate these three entities(because you don't know how they are combined together) but for God, He made His Spirit hover over the water...

"...Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters." - Genesis 1:2(NIV)

and also He made his word to become flesh...

"...The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth." - John 1:14

Hence he separated His own Word, His Own Spirit from Himself. Thus God is not trinity anymore.

This is plain truth. I do want clarify something to you. I was a Roman Catholic. But as for me I seek knowledge through God and he has revealed me great things you can not imagine.

"..."And afterward, I will pour out my Spirit on all people. Your sons and daughters will prophesy, your old men will dream dreams, your young men will see visions." - Joel 2:28

As we are the last generation I'm commanded by God to call out His people one last time. That's why He revealed me everything through His Son. I'll only speak of Him not any man-made stories. Thus His people will identify me and will keep their faith in the True Messiah.

As I said before...

"...No one can come to me(Son of God) unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day." -John 6:44(NIV)

That's why I joined this forum to spread His good news to all those who have been chosen before the world did exist.

 

[Aelred of Rievaulx]

I'm not J/W. And I've referred to the original text from Greek.

I think I've to clear things up. First All of you agree that we are "The Image" of God.

First what are we,

we possess our presence in the physical form called as "The Body" - God(has one himself(not physical but spiritual))

we possess our presence in the mental form called as "The Mind/The Soul"- Holy Spirit(Spirit of God)

Our Body and Mind collaborates and gives birth to our thoughts in the form of "The Word" - Messiah(Word of God)

You can't separate these three entities(because you don't know how they are combined together) but for God, He made His Spirit hover over the water...

"...Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters." - Genesis 1:2(NIV)

and also He made his word to become flesh...

"...The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth." - John 1:14

Hence he separated His own Word, His Own Spirit from Himself. Thus God is not trinity anymore.

This is plain truth. I do want clarify something to you. I was a Roman Catholic. But as for me I seek knowledge through God and he has revealed me great things you can not imagine.

"..."And afterward, I will pour out my Spirit on all people. Your sons and daughters will prophesy, your old men will dream dreams, your young men will see visions." - Joel 2:28

As we are the last generation I'm commanded by God to call out His people one last time. That's why He revealed me everything through His Son. I'll only speak of Him not any man-made stories. Thus His people will identify me and will keep their faith in the True Messiah.

As I said before...

"...No one can come to me(Son of God) unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day." -John 6:44(NIV)

That's why I joined this forum to spread His good news to all those who have been chosen before the world did exist.

That sounds like Modalism to me...

 

[Maurious Paul]

No, The Most High separated His own belongings in to three distinct ones. It is not His nature that He exhibits Himself in three modes or nature.

 

[Wgw]

I'm not J/W. And I've referred to the original text from Greek.

No, you have rather provided an erroneous translation which happens to agree with the erroneous J/W translation in parenthesis, although it is apparent you are not J/W, and you were not accused of being J/W; usually they serve us canned polemics on a bed of copy-pasta.

I think I've to clear things up. First All of you agree that we are "The Image" of God.

First what are we,

we possess our presence in the physical form called as "The Body" - God(has one himself(not physical but spiritual))

According to the divine nature, God does not have a body, spirtual or otherwise, because He is "everywhere present, filling all things." The idea that God is localized is the error of the ancient Samaritans, who believed God physically dwelt exclusively at Mount Gerizim.

Another problem with the idea of God physically constrained to a locality, in a "spiritual body," is that it implies a space in which this spiritual body moves and operates. This space must itself be uncreated, so you have Dualism; God, and a meta-God in which God operates. What is truly God in that case? The demiurge that creates this world, or the realm in which the world is created?

Dualism is entirely unacceptable. It is also contrary to Genesis 1:1, John 1:3, et cetera.

we possess our presence in the mental form called as "The Mind/The Soul"- Holy Spirit(Spirit of God)

Our Body and Mind collaborates and gives birth to our thoughts in the form of "The Word" - Messiah(Word of God)

You can't separate these three entities(because you don't know how they are combined together) but for God, He made His Spirit hover over the water...

"...Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters." - Genesis 1:2(NIV)

and also He made his word to become flesh...

"...The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth." - John 1:14

Hence he separated His own Word, His Own Spirit from Himself. Thus God is not trinity anymore.

This unusual theology is to be rejected as unscriptural, as it violates the scriptural principle of divine immutability. "God is the same, yesterday, today and tomorrow." God does not change; you have introduced change into the divine nature.

This is plain truth. I do want clarify something to you. I was a Roman Catholic.

Syro-Malabar?

But as for me I seek knowledge through God and he has revealed me great things you can not imagine.

"..."And afterward, I will pour out my Spirit on all people. Your sons and daughters will prophesy, your old men will dream dreams, your young men will see visions." - Joel 2:28

As we are the last generation I'm commanded by God to call out His people one last time. That's why He revealed me everything through His Son. I'll only speak of Him not any man-made stories. Thus His people will identify me and will keep their faith in the True Messiah.

As I said before...

"...No one can come to me(Son of God) unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day." -John 6:44(NIV)

That's why I joined this forum to spread His good news to all those who have been chosen before the world did exist.

Have you read Galatians 1:8?

 

[Maurious Paul]

Have you heard about Two Witnesses in the Revelation...?

 

[Maurious Paul]

Galatians 1:8 is pointing to The Founder of Islam. Do you know that?

 

[civilwarbuff]

@Maurious Paul: In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was divine(was like God)." - John 1:1
Not what Strong says....

 

[civilwarbuff]

Galatians 1:8 is pointing to The Founder of Islam. Do you know that?

OK, done laughing...will try to take what you write seriously from here on out.

 

[Wgw]

Galatians 1:8 is pointing to The Founder of Islam. Do you know that?

It points to anyone teaching a doctrine contrary to the apostolic faith. Gnosticism, Marcionism, Arianism, Soccinianism, Islam, etc.

 

[Tiny Bible]

Unfortunately family, ImAllLikeOkWaitWhat, rejects the Trinity, which is understandable, and yet fails to realize that Jesus was God as the scriptures state repeatedly and in his own words.
ImAllLikeOkWaitWhat, isn't yet ready to realize that the scriptures are a complete telling of the truth of God in Christ. And reading one verse and taking it out of context to appease one's own bias isn't upholding truth in the word. But rather, the truth that it is personal bias that is downgrading the verses meant to speak to and of the truth.

The Trinity is not mentioned in scripture. Just as Purgatory is not mentioned and does not exist in scripture. However, I think , at least in my studies I've found, that Pagan Rome with its polytheistic tendencies when arranging the template for what would be the lawful faith of Christ under the auspices of Constantine at first, implied that like their Pagan traditions so to was the faith of the Christ polytheistic and having three distinct "gods" within it.

And maybe Constantine let this to occur because it would be easier for the pantheon worshiping citizens of Rome to accept that the new legal faith , the religion of the slaves as it was called, belonging to the people of the book, as the pagans called Christians, would be easier to accept if in some way those early Christians seemed similar to the pagans for their worship of three gods, rather than the multitude that Roman's honored.

But what Constantine and placating the pagan governed wanted is of no matter to what God wills.

And the scriptures state that God is a spirit and that he arrived on earth as the perfect unblemished child, Jesus. Who's mission was to save the world as the final blood sacrifice on the altar that was to be the cross so as to take the sins of the world upon himself there. And those who believe in him as the propitiation of our sins, the final death offering for our sins that we deserved to die for, was the last sacrifice necessary to rejoin our souls with him, the Father.

The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are one. Not three separate entities. When God started off as the spirit and then became flesh he is still the spirit God in flesh as Jesus.

In a practical sense it's like yourself. You are you, you are a son or daughter, and if you work you are a laborer.Does this mean there are three you's walking the earth? No. It means that you have three duties, identities, that you inhabit in this life.
The same with God. The Father was first a spirit and then he took on the flesh that he had created in the beginning to inhabit the planet he created first. How else would a man child be free of sin when that seed was placed in Mary as that immaculate conception? A Holy unblemished spirit entered her and was called Yeshua, or Jesus.

ImAllLikeOkWaitWhat doesn't have to believe that. However, it is inconsistent that they argue they deny the Trinity and yet insist Jesus was not God.

I would suggest we not beat our heads against a wall that has formed itself against the truth of scripture for its own motives. God knows the truth. The scriptures speak of the truth. Those opposed to the truth that refuse to be persuaded by the truth are of no consequence to the status of the truth. That they choose to live a falsehood is between them and God. Their belief doesn't change the truth of God within Christ.

 

[Hoghead1]

That doesn't necessarily follow, Wge. One could easily argue that the universe is the body of God, for example. God can be everywhere present, just as I am everywhere resent in my body. My body is me, yet I transcend it.

 

[ImAllLikeOkWaitWat]

Unfortunately family, ImAllLikeOkWaitWhat, rejects the Trinity, which is understandable, and yet fails to realize that Jesus was God as the scriptures state repeatedly and in his own words.
ImAllLikeOkWaitWhat, isn't yet ready to realize that the scriptures are a complete telling of the truth of God in Christ. And reading one verse and taking it out of context to appease one's own bias isn't upholding truth in the word. But rather, the truth that it is personal bias that is downgrading the verses meant to speak to and of the truth.

Well for one Jesus never directly says I am God. He says things like before abraham I am or the father and I are one, or i was with the father before the world was. None of these things mean he is God or prove the trinity exists. Those who believe in the trinity look at a verse like john 20:28 where thomas calls Jesus his lord and god. The greek word for god used there is theos which has been used for the true god it also is used for humans. Like in john 10:34 where Jesus says is it not written in your law I said ye are gods. There is no case in the bible where when they are speaking about Jesus they use Yehovah or adonai or any other name that is used only of God himself. Every time Jesus is mentioned the author has always avoided calling Jesus the same name as our father. The reason for it is clear, Jesus Christ is not God neither is he our father or anything of that matter. He is however god with a little g like we will be when made perfect at his second coming.

 

[Der Alte]

. . . The Trinity is not mentioned in scripture. Just as Purgatory is not mentioned and does not exist in scripture. However, I think , at least in my studies I've found, that Pagan Rome with its polytheistic tendencies when arranging the template for what would be the lawful faith of Christ under the auspices of Constantine at first, implied that like their Pagan traditions so to was the faith of the Christ polytheistic and having three distinct "gods" within it.

And maybe Constantine let this to occur because it would be easier for the pantheon worshiping citizens of Rome to accept that the new legal faith , the religion of the slaves as it was called, belonging to the people of the book, as the pagans called Christians, would be easier to accept if in some way those early Christians seemed similar to the pagans for their worship of three gods, rather than the multitude that Roman's honored.

But what Constantine and placating the pagan governed wanted is of no matter to what God wills. . . .

Several problems with this part of your post. Prior to Nicaea Constantine became a Christian, but he was an Arian not a Trinitarian. If Constantine was going to force anything on the church it would have been Arianism. The Trinity was never mentioned at Nicaea. The main topic addressed at Nicaea was the nature of Christ.

 

[Der Alte]

Well for one Jesus never directly says I am God. He says things like before abraham I am or the father and I are one, or i was with the father before the world was. None of these things mean he is God or prove the trinity exists.

Saying "None of these things mean he is God or prove the trinity exists." does not make it so. That is merely an unsupported assertion. Here is my assertion, you are wrong. Jesus never directly says He is God. What would have happened if Jesus had said "I am God?" What happened when Jesus only said "I am the Son of God?" The Jews had Him crucified. If Jesus had claimed to be God the Jews would have considered Him crazy and they would still have crucified Him.

Those who believe in the trinity look at a verse like john 20:28 where thomas calls Jesus his lord and god. The greek word for god used there is theos which has been used for the true god it also is used for humans.

The Greek word θεός/Theos, translated "God" in the NT is never used of any human in the NT except where Jesus quoted from Psalm 82 in John 10:34. The exact expression that Thomas used was the Lord of me and the God of me. Thomas was a devout Jew and a Jew would never address anyone other than the creator as "God." The ECF who quote John 20:28 understood Thomas to be calling Jesus God.

Cyprian [A.D. 200-258.] Testimonies 6. That Christ is God

Also in the same: “The Lord said to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands: and be not faithless, but believing. Thomas answered and said unto Him, My Lord and my God. Jesus saith unto him, Because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they who have not seen, and yet have believed.” (Joh_20:27-29) Also Paul to the Romans: “I could wish that I myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren and my kindred according to the flesh: who are Israelites: whose are the adoption, and the glory, and the covenant, and the appointment of the law, and the service (of God), and the promises; whose are the fathers, of whom, according to the flesh, Christ came, who is God over all, blessed for evermore.” (Rom_9:3-5) Also in the Apocalypse: “I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end I will give to him that is athirst, of the fountain of living water freely. He that overcometh shall possess these things, and their inheritance; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.” (Rev_21:6, Rev_21:7) Also in the eighty-first Psalm: “God stood in the congregation of gods, and judging gods in the midst.” (Psa_82:1) And again in the same place: “I have said, Ye are gods; and ye are all the children of the Highest: but ye shall die like men.” (Psa_82:6, Psa_82:7) But if they who have been righteous, and have obeyed the divine precepts, may be called gods, how much more is Christ, the Son of God, God!

Novatian [A.D. 210-280.] A Treatise of Concerning the Trinity. Chap. XIII.

Moreover, if, whereas it is the property of none but God to know the secrets of the heart, Christ beholds the secrets of the heart; and if, whereas it belongs to none but God to remit sins, the same Christ remits sins; and if, whereas it is the portion of no man to come from heaven, He descended by coming from heaven; and if, whereas this word can be true of no man, “I and the Father are one,” (Joh_10:30) Christ alone declared this word out of the consciousness of His divinity; and if, finally, the Apostle Thomas, instructed in all the proofs and conditions of Christ’s divinity, says in reply to Christ, “My Lord and my God;” (Joh_20:28) and if, besides, the Apostle Paul says, “Whose are the fathers, and of whom Christ came according to the flesh, who is over all, God blessed for evermore,” (Rom_9:5) writing in his epistles; and if the same apostle declares that he was ordained “an apostle not by men, nor of man, but by Jesus Christ;” (Gal_1:1 and Gal_1:12) and if the same contends that he learned the Gospel not from men or by man, but received it from Jesus Christ, reasonably Christ is God.

Chap. XXX.
And let us therefore believe this, since it is most faithful that Jesus Christ the Son of God is our Lord and God; because “in the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and God was the Word. The same was in the beginning with God.” (Joh_1:1, Joh_1:2) And, “The Word was made flesh, and dwelt in us.” (Joh_1:14) And, “My Lord and my God.” (Joh_20:28) And, “Whose are the fathers, and of whom according to the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for evermore.” (Rom_9:5) What, then, shall we say? Does Scripture set before us two Gods? How, then, does it say that “God is one?” Or is not Christ God also? How, then, is it said to Christ,” My Lord and my God?”

Like in john 10:34 where Jesus says is it not written in your law I said ye are gods. There is no case in the bible where when they are speaking about Jesus they use Yehovah or adonai or any other name that is used only of God himself. Every time Jesus is mentioned the author has always avoided calling Jesus the same name as our father. The reason for it is clear, Jesus Christ is not God neither is he our father or anything of that matter. He is however god with a little g like we will be when made perfect at his second coming.

Of course Jesus is never called יהוה/YHWH or אדני/ Adonai because those are Hebrew words and the NT was written in Greek.
How can there be a god, little G" when God said there was no God before Him beside Him or after Him.

Isa 43:10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, [יהוה] and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.
11 I, even I, am the LORD; [יהוה] and beside me there is no saviour

Isa 44:6 Thus saith the LORD [יהוה] the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD [יהוה] of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.

Isa 44:8 Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any. ​

 

[stuart lawrence]

Gods word is simple, so who insists on believing an equal trinity where Christ is termed God himself? People on the internet who don't want simple. They have studied too much to accept simple. All that hard work studying theology was never simple.
The ministers in the churches by and large stick to the simple message/ requirement for salvation plainly laid out in the bible, not so for many on the internet!

 

[stuart lawrence]

I spoke to a minister about this subject once. I told him I believed the fulness of the Godhead bodily dwelt in Christ. He frowned and said:
You must believe Jesus is God then.
He was fresh out of theological college!

 

[Der Alte]

Galatians 1:8 is pointing to The Founder of Islam. Do you know that?

Or it could refer to the LDS. The founder Joseph Smith claimed to have been visited by the angel Moroni.

 

[Wgw]

That doesn't necessarily follow, Wge. One could easily argue that the universe is the body of God, for example. God can be everywhere present, just as I am everywhere resent in my body. My body is me, yet I transcend it.

You are not present in your body; your body is rather inextricably part of your personal identity. Nor did you create your body, nor do you posess absolute control over it. Scripture does not describe a merely powerful God exercising control over an organic component of Himself; rather it describes an almighty God and a created universe distinct from that God. Process theology is flawed fundamentally in that it seeks to deny this, for what amounts to aesthetics.

This is why as far as theology is concerned, most Christians have no idea what Process is; it is essentially the subject of academic discussion primarily in left-wing seminaries associated with the tragically declining mainline Protestant churches, and I believe it is essentially an irrelevance, one with the effect of hastening their decline.

 

[Wgw]

Gods word is simple, so who insists on believing an equal trinity where Christ is termed God himself?

John 1:1-14 and other verses explain in simple and unambiguous language that Jesus Christ is God Himself.

People on the internet who don't want simple. They have studied too much to accept simple. All that hard work studying theology was never simple.

Not true; the only person in this thread arguing against simplicity is a PhD in theology who happens to deny the divinity of our Lord. Of those of us arguing on behalf of the Trinity, precisely one has formal theological training; the rest of us are pious laymen.

Also, perhaps unfairly, as a network engineer working in a hard science I scoff at the idea that studying theology per se is hard. Most of the "hard" in my opinion at least stems from the study of related subject matter required to obtain a degree in theology; the actual theology itself however has always seemed to me fairly easy going. Of course, having an unpleasant professor looming over one can instill artificial rigour even into the most subjective of disciplines.

 

[Wgw]

Unfortunately family, ImAllLikeOkWaitWhat, rejects the Trinity, which is understandable, and yet fails to realize that Jesus was God as the scriptures state repeatedly and in his own words.
ImAllLikeOkWaitWhat, isn't yet ready to realize that the scriptures are a complete telling of the truth of God in Christ. And reading one verse and taking it out of context to appease one's own bias isn't upholding truth in the word. But rather, the truth that it is personal bias that is downgrading the verses meant to speak to and of the truth.

The Trinity is not mentioned in scripture. Just as Purgatory is not mentioned and does not exist in scripture. However, I think , at least in my studies I've found, that Pagan Rome with its polytheistic tendencies when arranging the template for what would be the lawful faith of Christ under the auspices of Constantine at first, implied that like their Pagan traditions so to was the faith of the Christ polytheistic and having three distinct "gods" within it.

And maybe Constantine let this to occur because it would be easier for the pantheon worshiping citizens of Rome to accept that the new legal faith , the religion of the slaves as it was called, belonging to the people of the book, as the pagans called Christians, would be easier to accept if in some way those early Christians seemed similar to the pagans for their worship of three gods, rather than the multitude that Roman's honored.

But what Constantine and placating the pagan governed wanted is of no matter to what God wills.

And the scriptures state that God is a spirit and that he arrived on earth as the perfect unblemished child, Jesus. Who's mission was to save the world as the final blood sacrifice on the altar that was to be the cross so as to take the sins of the world upon himself there. And those who believe in him as the propitiation of our sins, the final death offering for our sins that we deserved to die for, was the last sacrifice necessary to rejoin our souls with him, the Father.

The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are one. Not three separate entities. When God started off as the spirit and then became flesh he is still the spirit God in flesh as Jesus.

In a practical sense it's like yourself. You are you, you are a son or daughter, and if you work you are a laborer.Does this mean there are three you's walking the earth? No. It means that you have three duties, identities, that you inhabit in this life.
The same with God. The Father was first a spirit and then he took on the flesh that he had created in the beginning to inhabit the planet he created first. How else would a man child be free of sin when that seed was placed in Mary as that immaculate conception? A Holy unblemished spirit entered her and was called Yeshua, or Jesus.

ImAllLikeOkWaitWhat doesn't have to believe that. However, it is inconsistent that they argue they deny the Trinity and yet insist Jesus was not God.

I would suggest we not beat our heads against a wall that has formed itself against the truth of scripture for its own motives. God knows the truth. The scriptures speak of the truth. Those opposed to the truth that refuse to be persuaded by the truth are of no consequence to the status of the truth. That they choose to live a falsehood is between them and God. Their belief doesn't change the truth of God within Christ.

St. Constantine did not unilaterally decide the outcome of the Council of Nicea; this was done by a vote. Nor was he the major champion of the Trinity; this role was held by Ss. Alexander and Athanasius of Alexandria, Nicholas of Myra, and others.