Why do you believe in the trinity when God and his word is simple

[ImAllLikeOkWaitWat]

Anything that is as convoluted as the trinity can't be from God and can't be true. If you have to break out a calculator or it takes a very long time to explain something in the bible it is not from god and in the case of the trinity not true. I of course was raised to believe in the trinity but instead of rejecting god and becoming an atheist because the trinity didn't make sense I did my research.

There is a website http://www.angelfire.com/space/thegospeltruth/trinity/articles/About.html

That pretty much sums up most peoples awakening from the lie of the trinity and I encourage anyone who wants to know the truth to read at least that page. The main problem with believing jesus is god is idolatry. Sin. An unnecessary one at that. Satan does all he can to thwart gods word and rebel against god and does all he can to lead people to sin even accidentally like in this case. Satanists main way of deception is half truths. Not to say those who believe in the trinity are satanists but they are deceived in the same way that luciferians deceive people. Give them a little bit of the truth with the rest a bold face lie to keep them from their full rewards and power in this life and the next.

I love jesus with all my heart but the fact is he is not god and never was. He didn't create the universe or humans. Anything miraculous he did was through god not because he was god. The lie has spread like a highly contagious virus and now 90% of christians believe it and commit an unnecessary sin. God bless.

 

[civilwarbuff]

Anything that is as convoluted as the trinity can't be from God and can't be true. If you have to break out a calculator or it takes a very long time to explain something in the bible it is not from god and in the case of the trinity not true. I of course was raised to believe in the trinity but instead of rejecting god and becoming an atheist because the trinity didn't make sense I did my research.

There is a website http://www.angelfire.com/space/thegospeltruth/trinity/articles/About.html

That pretty much sums up most peoples awakening from the lie of the trinity and I encourage anyone who wants to know the truth to read at least that page. The main problem with believing jesus is god is idolatry. Sin. An unnecessary one at that. Satan does all he can to thwart gods word and rebel against god and does all he can to lead people to sin even accidentally like in this case. Satanists main way of deception is half truths. Not to say those who believe in the trinity are satanists but they are deceived in the same way that luciferians deceive people. Give them a little bit of the truth with the rest a bold face lie to keep them from their full rewards and power in this life and the next.

I love jesus with all my heart but the fact is he is not god and never was. He didn't create the universe or humans. Anything miraculous he did was through god not because he was god. The lie has spread like a highly contagious virus and now 90% of christians believe it and commit an unnecessary sin. God bless.

"Contribute

If you have any factual information which is pertinent to the question at hand, and you would like to offer this information, please do not hesitate. The main things which you could contribute would be quotations from early Christians, or modern scholars, factual data concerning Greek or Hebrew grammar, factual translation data, and the like. "

So I am guessing he does not have any of this information so he is begging others to provide it to him. In fact, his entire website is devoid of any evidence and minimal (really minimal) scripture. Is this what you base your rejection on?...The musings of someone you don't know?....I am assuming he is not a relative or friend. You need to come up with something better than this.....

 

[ImAllLikeOkWaitWat]

Most of the stuff on his site is exactly what you are asking. I'll link to one of the major objections to the trinity in which the bible almost seems clear that jesus is god. He breaks it down well. And no he is far from a relative or friend. Although as smart as he is I could use a friend like him.

http://www.angelfire.com/space/thegospeltruth/trinity/verses/Colossians1_16.html
Colossians 1:15-16

For in him were all things created in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones, or lordships , or rulers, or authorities. All things were created through him and unto him.

"
The Trinitarian Claim

Trinitarians claim that Paul is referring to the Genesis act of creation. Upon this premise, Trinitarians claim that Jesus must be God since either (1) God the Father created all things through him, or (2) Jesus is himself the Creator. Verse 17 is also interpreted upon this premise where Trinitarians claim that Jesus existed before anything was created.

Conclusion

When we honestly regard all the contextual facts concerning Colossians 1:15-16, it becomes quite clear that the Trinitarian interpretation of this passage is a serious blunder. The Genesis act of creation is not even on Paul's radar. Paul is referring to God reconciling the kosmos to himself in the risen Christ and the "creation" in view is not the old Genesis creation but the new creation where everything is Headed up in Christ Jesus and the Kingdom of the Beloved Son.

Heres the video as well. A must watch for anyone who is serious about the gospel.

 

[civilwarbuff]

I just hate it when people simply quote what someone else has stated without really taking time to read for themselves. Lets just start with this part of your link.

The Trinitarian Claim

Trinitarians claim that Paul is referring to the Genesis act of creation. Upon this premise, Trinitarians claim that Jesus must be God since either (1) God the Father created all things through him, or (2) Jesus is himself the Creator. Verse 17 is also interpreted upon this premise where Trinitarians claim that Jesus existed before anything was created.

Guessing you don't believe the above highlighted.....
So, here is the below highlighted....

Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:2 He was in the beginning with God.
Joh 1:3 All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made.
Joh 1:4 In him was life, and the life was the light of men.
Joh 1:5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.
Joh 1:6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.
Joh 1:7 He came as a witness, to bear witness about the light, that all might believe through him.
Joh 1:8 He was not the light, but came to bear witness about the light.
Joh 1:9 The true light, which gives light to everyone, was coming into the world.
Joh 1:10 He was in the world, and the world was made through him, yet the world did not know him.
Joh 1:11 He came to his own, and his own people did not receive him.
Joh 1:12 But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God,
Joh 1:13 who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.
Joh 1:14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth.

Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Jesus Christ is the Word....He existed with God.....He (the Word) is God
Joh 1:2 He was in the beginning with God.
Jesus Christ, Messiah was with God in the beginning
Joh 1:3 All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made.
I don't even need to comment......

So, show me, in your own words (not some link) and with scripture that I am wrong.

 

[Wgw]

Anything that is as convoluted as the trinity can't be from God and can't be true.

And thus the OP makes himself the authority on what God can or cannot be like. In contrary to "God is unsearchable in His ways," et cetera.

If you have to break out a calculator or it takes a very long time to explain something in the bible it is not from god and in the case of the trinity not true.

It neither requires a calculator nor a very long time to explain the idea of the Holy Trinity, so there goes that argument...

I of course was raised to believe in the trinity but instead of rejecting god and becoming an atheist because the trinity didn't make sense I did my research.

There is a website http://www.angelfire.com/space/thegospeltruth/trinity/articles/About.html

So now we are to reject 1,982 years of Christian faith based on what some bloke wrote on Angelfire. Sigh.

That pretty much sums up most peoples awakening from the lie of the trinity and I encourage anyone who wants to know the truth to read at least that page. The main problem with believing jesus is god is idolatry.

Ah, so now Nicene Christians are idolaters. Lovely.

Sin. An unnecessary one at that. Satan does all he can to thwart gods word and rebel against god and does all he can to lead people to sin even accidentally like in this case. Satanists main way of deception is half truths. Not to say those who believe in the trinity are satanists but they are deceived in the same way that luciferians deceive people. Give them a little bit of the truth with the rest a bold face lie to keep them from their full rewards and power in this life and the next.

I would be rather more worried about being deceived by some chap who can't afford web hosting than by all mainstream Christian churches.

I love jesus with all my heart but the fact is he is not god and never was.

John 1:1-14 says He was God.

He didn't create the universe or humans.

John 1:3 says otherwise.

Anything miraculous he did was through god not because he was god. The lie has spread like a highly contagious virus and now 90% of christians believe it and commit an unnecessary sin. God bless.

If it's a sin to believe the Gospel of St. John, count me a sinner.

 

[ImAllLikeOkWaitWat]

Good thing john 1 has been addressed.
http://www.angelfire.com/space/thegospeltruth/TTD/verses/john1_1.html

John 1:1
In the beginning was the word and the word was with God and the word was God.

The Trinitarian Claim


Trinitarians interpret the text as if John is referring to the beginning of the Genesis creation and the verse says the Son was with God and the Son was God.

Conclusion

An honest exploration of the facts demonstrates to us that the Word of John 1:1 is the Word proclaimed through Jesus in his ministry and the Word he proclaimed was the proclamation of God the Father Himself, "the Word was God." He who had seen Jesus had seen the Father in terms of the things Jesus did. God is Life and Jesus fully expressed that Life in the words he spoke and the works he did. God is Truth and Jesus fully expressed that Truth by everything he said and did. God is Light and Jesus fully expressed the Light of the Father in all the words he spoke and works he did in the name of his God. God is Love and the flesh named Jesus fully expressed the Father's Love, dead flesh hanging on the cross for your sins and mine. The Word of God was something the flesh named Jesus always kept. The Word became flesh, that is, God the Father was manifested in flesh, that flesh named Jesus. Jesus came so that we might know the Father and Jesus fully expressed the Father in all the things he did because he always kept His Father's Word. Jesus' words and works were not his own but the Father's. The Word as proclaimed by Jesus... was God

 

[civilwarbuff]

Good thing john 1 has been addressed.
http://www.angelfire.com/space/thegospeltruth/TTD/verses/john1_1.html

I specifically asked:

So, show me, in your own words (not some link) and with scripture that I am wrong.

Are you unable to do that? If so, this conversation ends....

 

[Dkh587]

The trinity is a doctrine that runs deep in the veins of many believers. It's a tough doctrine for some people to let go of, even though there is no scriptural reason to be hanging on to it

 

[ImAllLikeOkWaitWat]

The funny part is most people who believe the trinity can't even explain it. They like your average christian hasn't examined the evidence. They just listen to what joel osteen says for an hour a week then go back to mindless living.

 

[ImAllLikeOkWaitWat]

Civilwarbuff... Name one thing I said in this thread regards to john1 or anything else that is incorrect? You are saying I am wrong because I am not using my own words. But the words I do use are correct so what does it matter where it comes from?

 

[ImAllLikeOkWaitWat]

I think a lot of people think that if jesus isn't god then he loses some of his uniqueness or special qualities. Which could be no further from the truth. Its one thing if god himself just came down here and took on a body and died for our sins it seems even more remarkable if a man like you and me was able to do it. The reason christ was able to do it or at least had the opportunity unlike any other man than adam is because he had perfect dna implanted straight from the father himself. We unfortunately get dna that is mutated and sin driven.

 

[civilwarbuff]

Civilwarbuff... Name one thing I said in this thread regards to john1 or anything else that is incorrect? You are saying I am wrong because I am not using my own words. But the words I do use are correct so what does it matter where it comes from?

I am asking you to use your own words not someone else's words....don't use a link....you talk to me....explain to me why I a wrong....and back it up with scripture.....I don't believe you can.....

 

[Albion]

Anything that is as convoluted as the trinity can't be from God and can't be true.

IMHO, that has to be the weakest non-Trinitarian argument that we've heard yet. It's not the case that all the things of God are necessarily simple. Quite the contrary. Considering that eternity, omnipotence, and a supreme being who is not confined by space or time are all beyond our abilities to understand fully--and yet we accept them as true--the argument made here is rather silly to begin with.

And then if we add to it the suggestion that it's not in Scripture...when the Bible clearly teaches that there is but one God and then describes three different somethings as that God, we should be able to see that the issue boils down to little more than observing that the nature of God is not easy to define.

 

[Dkh587]

IMHO, that has to be the weakest anti-Trinitarian argument that we've heard yet. It's not the case that all the things of God are necessarily simple. Quite the contrary. Considering that eternity, omnipotence, and a supreme being who is not confined by space or time are all beyond our abilities to understand fully--and yet we accept them as true--the argument made here is rather silly to begin with.

And then if we add to it the suggestion that it's not in Scripture...when the Bible clearly teaches that there is but one God and then describes three different somethings as that God, we should be able to see that the issue boils down to little more than observing that the nature of God is not easy to define.

Will you please share verses from the Torah that point to/suggest "3 different somethings" in regards to the nature of The Most High?

 

[Albion]

Will you please share verses from the Torah that point to/suggest "3 different somethings" in regards to the nature of The Most High?

You've quoted from the New Testament when trying to prove the correctness of your position in other discussions. But now you don't want to hear of it??

Perhaps you'll explain the change before we go too much further.

 

[ImAllLikeOkWaitWat]

civilwarbuff you are wrong because you misinterpret scripture. John1 is not saying that jesus is god. People read that into it but thats not what it says. Just reread john1:1-14 and if you read it from the perspective of the link i sent then it makes sense its not talking about jesus being the word.

 

[7angels]

one more discrepancy i noticed. 1 col 1:18 says He is also the head [the life-source and leader] of the body, the [e]church; and He is the beginning, [f]the firstborn from the dead, so that He Himself will occupy the first place [He will stand supreme and be preeminent] in everything. the 3rd word of that verse is 'also'. meaning that col 1:16 and 1:18 are different. your video combines the 2 verses into one. in other words he is twisting the Word to say what he wants it to say. whether intentional or not does not matter. what matters is that he is doing it.

second discrepancy is that this guy says he knows what paul was and was not talking about. this also goes against scripture because scripture is of no private interpretation.

3rd discrepancy is that what this guy says conflicts with scripture. the old testament is a type and shadow of what is to come. the new testament explains the old testament.

4th discrepancy is that this guy makes a lot of assumptions and then uses scripture to try and support his points. the Word says what it means and means what it says.

5th discrepancy is that this guys believes Jesus is superior due to where He sits in heaven. Jesus was way superior way before he ever came to earth.

6th discrepancy this guy uses eph 1:20-23 and verse 22 has that same problem as verse 18 in col 1. it has the word 'and' showing more that one thing. these verses are not the referring to just one thing but 2 separate things again.

sorry i quit listening to this 2/3 of the way through. there are to many problems with what he says that are unscriptural.

God bless

 

[civilwarbuff]

Will you please share verses from the Torah that point to/suggest "3 different somethings" in regards to the nature of The Most High?

I will even spell it out for you.....

Psa 110:1 A Psalm of David. The LORD says to my Lord: "Sit at my right hand, until I make your enemies your footstool."
This is David speaking....The Lord is God.....my Lord is Christ.....who else is above David?
Gen 1:1 In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth.
Gen 1:2 The earth was without form and void, and darkness was over the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.
The Trinity....dispute it with scripture as I have shown you with scripture....bet you can't.....

 

[civilwarbuff]

John1 is not saying that jesus is god. People read that into it but thats not what it says.

Then tell me what it says.... in your words....not some link....your words...and I can prove you wrong if you deny Messiah is God.

 

[Dkh587]

You don't want to hear of the New Testament, then? Is that correct?

That's correct. if There are 3 different natures to The Most High, you will be able to find verses to support that in the Torah