Why do some denominations not believe in Once Saved, Always Saved?

[South Bound]

So I guess it becomes a "What comes first? The chicken or egg?" question.

Salvation comes first. Specifically, regeneration, upon which we are given a new nature that seeks to serve God.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Why do some denominations, such as the Church of God, not believe in Once Saved Always Saved, even though the Bible clearly outlines that salvation is eternal? That is, salvation is by grace through faith and it is something that cannot be taken from you.

While I believe that grace covers such Christians and that they are genuinely saved for putting their faith in the Lord, Jesus Christ, it must be somewhat troublesome to think that backsliding will result in you becoming detached from the Lord. It seems like it would hinder someone's growth in the Lord rather than promote obedience.

The thing is that God chooses us and we respond. He doesn't let go of us once we're a Child of God.

Sometimes it seems like such denominations haven't viewed the Bible in its entire scope, interpreting. What is your take on this subject?

After reading all the replies ...

Do you believe it?

I wonder if it matters in practice since OSAS believers still want to live holy lives and still want to pray for grace and help in times of need so it seems to me that OSAS isn't making a big difference to the way a Christian lives.

I, by the way, reject it.

 

[Erose]

Uh no. That would mean that devotions, compassion, etc. would EARN you salvation.

Interesting, although unsupportable, stretch.

 

[Erose]

Salvation comes first. Specifically, regeneration, upon which we are given a new nature that seeks to serve God.

That isn't what is called in question in this thread, nor do I call that in question either.

 

[Erose]

After reading all the replies ...

Do you believe it?

I wonder if it matters in practice since OSAS believers still want to live holy lives and still want to pray for grace and help in times of need so it seems to me that OSAS isn't making a big difference to the way a Christian lives.

I, by the way, reject it.

I don't know if that is true in all cases.

 

[Mama Kidogo]

Uh no. That would mean that devotions, compassion, etc. would EARN you salvation.

Those things are done because of salvation. No one can earn it as the price has been already paid.

 

[Albion]

Those things are done because of salvation. No one can earn it as the price has been already paid.

That's what I would say.

However, my answer was given to a specific comment by Erose that was obviously incompatible with what you just wrote.

 

[Mama Kidogo]

That's what I would say.

However, my answer was given to a specific comment by Erose that was obviously incompatible with what you just wrote.

What we do because of salvation is indeed a part of our salvation. Not that these things alone can in any way save us but an expression of faith caused by the salvation we entered into.

 

[MoreCoffee]

It seems to me that if Abraham's faith was counted as righteousness by God when Abraham offered his son Isaac to God then faith is itself a work that attracts God's approval and acceptance even when one's other works may be less than perfect.

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

That kinda brings it full circle eh

http://www.christianforums.com/t7828185/

 

[Erose]

It seems to me that if Abraham's faith was counted as righteousness by God when Abraham offered his son Isaac to God then faith is itself a work that attracts God's approval and acceptance even when one's other works may be less than perfect.

And here is the issue isn't it. Some people want to believe that all they have to do to be saved is a profession of faith, and bam! keep on living the life you are leading with no more worries. OSAS is an excuse for people to keep on living a sinful life, and feeling good about it. Don't have to follow the commandments. Don't have to feed the hungry or cloth the naked. Its good if you take time to do so, but you don't, oh well, these things really aren't important.

Like you said in another post, luckily there are many OSAS folks who either subconsciously or out of insecurity in their beliefs, do keep the commandments as best as they can, and try to help the hungry and cloth the naked. But it is obvious that these acts are not fruits of the theology of OSAS.

 

[Erose]

That's what I would say.

However, my answer was given to a specific comment by Erose that was obviously incompatible with what you just wrote.

Well considering that your comment to my post was incompatible with what I wrote...

 

[NorrinRadd]

Consider the following statement:



Is that a statement of fact, or only a warning about the consequences of falling away so that you don't do it? You probably say it's the latter, but it's actually the former, even if you cannot get your mind around it. Those who are saved are those who endure. Those who do not endure are obviously not among the saved. It's a statement of fact.

Do you know of any translations that preserve that "correct" rendering of the Greek tense?

 

[NorrinRadd]

But that verse doesn't refer to these people as ever having been true believers or as having been saved or as having Faith.

The profile that's described there reminds me of people we've all known who get all excited when they hear a powerful sermon or experience some beautiful religious feeling...but it only lasts for a few days and then they are back to their old selves.

But that's not what it says. It doesn't say they had a "feeling," it says they BELIEVE. It doesn't say they mistakenly THOUGHT they believed, it says they BELIEVE. It's the same Greek word used of "genuine" Christians.

 

[NorrinRadd]

None of us can know that with absolute certainty. Jesus said to trust and not worry and that's the most we can do. If we truly believe, our lives will be lived in the same way regardless.

So John erred when he wrote 5:13 of his First Epistle, since we can't really "know" that we have eternal life.

 

[MoreCoffee]

And here is the issue isn't it. Some people want to believe that all they have to do to be saved is a profession of faith, and bam! keep on living the life you are leading with no more worries. OSAS is an excuse for people to keep on living a sinful life, and feeling good about it. Don't have to follow the commandments. Don't have to feed the hungry or cloth the naked. Its good if you take time to do so, but you don't, oh well, these things really aren't important.

Like you said in another post, luckily there are many OSAS folks who either subconsciously or out of insecurity in their beliefs, do keep the commandments as best as they can, and try to help the hungry and cloth the naked. But it is obvious that these acts are not fruits of the theology of OSAS.

Well, my brother, I see it like this:

• When did Abraham first believe God? Way back when he left Ur to find his way to Palestine.
• When did God count Abraham's faith as righteousness? After he had a son and showed he had faith by taking his son into the wilderness to sacrifice him because God asked him to.
• So what does that mean for us? It means that faith that does nothing is dead and does not make anybody righteous. There's no justification for passive unproductive faith no matter how hard people may fight to make Paul says that there is. Paul was the one who chose to cite Abraham's faith being counted as righteousness after he took Isaac out to be sacrificed. God is the one who chose to count it as righteousness only after Abraham proved it by taking his son out to be sacrificed in obedience to God's command.

My conclusion is that Abraham was not justified by faith alone but his faith and his actions worked together; his faith was made perfect through his actions. And this was done before God in response to God's command so that God would know that Abraham really did believe him. Not to show other people that he believed.

So OSAS can't be correct if OSAS depends on somebody believing and then doing nothing thereafter.

 

[NorrinRadd]

...
The Christian tradition I follow doesn't look too exclusively at a one time conversion experience ("getting saved") as the alpha and omega of Christianity. There is also the ongoing salvational process of theosis/ divinization, sanctification, acquiring of the Holy Spirit, sacraments, liturgical action, compassionately serving others, and walking the Christian path that takes center stage.

I agree that some Scripture passages refer to at least some aspects of salvation as being "future" relative to the initial experience. But IMO, the large majority all place "getting saved," being "born again," "born of God," being "justified," being "sanctified" or "made holy," being indwelt and empowered by the Holy Spirit, and partaking of the divine nature all as being contemporaneous at the very beginning of one's life as a believer.

 

[South Bound]

So OSAS can't be correct if OSAS depends on somebody believing and then doing nothing thereafter.

What is left to do after Christ declared it "tetelestai"?

Or are you saying that we're saved by grace after all we can do?

 

[Albion]

But that's not what it says. It doesn't say they had a "feeling," it says they BELIEVE. It doesn't say they mistakenly THOUGHT they believed, it says they BELIEVE. It's the same Greek word used of "genuine" Christians.

All right, then I'll rephrase in an attempt to make it easier for you. We all know, or should know, that "believe" has several levels of meaning. The Bible says that the demons believe, you know, and I hope you are not going to tell me that they have saving Faith.

I didn't redefine the word or use it improperly. I merely said that the verse reminded me of some people who say they "believe" -- and in the sense of comprehending or acknowledging, they do -- but it's not Faith.

 

[squint]

Luke 12:29
And seek not ye what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink, neither be ye of doubtful mind.

If you claim to believe, then it would not be wise to be of a doubtful mind.

What is it you doubt? You doubt that God in Christ is sufficient to save you?

Why would you believe doubt? Is doubt worthy of belief?

You should doubt yourself. You should never doubt God.

Doubt is the killer of faith.

Any sect that promotes doubt is not faithful to Christ.

Romans 14:23
And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.

Doubt, in short, is of the devil in a persons mind.

Why would any believer sit in the seat of DOUBT? It makes no sense whatsoever to do so. Why do you bear DOUBT? So you can beat someone else with the threat of LOSS?

Is there some benefit involved for the faithful to spread that disease called doubt?

1 Timothy 2:8
I will therefore that men pray every where, lifting up holy hands, without wrath and doubting.

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