Why do some denominations not believe in Once Saved, Always Saved?

[SAAN]

Why do some denominations, such as the Church of God, not believe in Once Saved Always Saved, even though the Bible clearly outlines that salvation is eternal? That is, salvation is by grace through faith and it is something that cannot be taken from you.

While I believe that grace covers such Christians and that they are genuinely saved for putting their faith in the Lord, Jesus Christ, it must be somewhat troublesome to think that backsliding will result in you becoming detached from the Lord. It seems like it would hinder someone's growth in the Lord rather than promote obedience.

The thing is that God chooses us and we respond. He doesn't let go of us once we're a Child of God.

Sometimes it seems like such denominations haven't viewed the Bible in its entire scope, interpreting. What is your take on this subject?

I think its a false doctrine and the reason why so many Christians live as they please because they think there is no consequences for their actions.

Galatians 5:19-21
New King James Version (NKJV)
19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery,[a] fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders,[b] drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.


1 Corinthians 6:9-10
9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals,[a] nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.


Ephesians 5:5
5 For this you know,[a] that no fornicator, unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God.


Colossians 3:5-9
5 Therefore put to death your members which are on the earth: fornication, uncleanness, passion, evil desire, and covetousness, which is idolatry. 6 Because of these things the wrath of God is coming upon the sons of disobedience, 7 in which you yourselves once walked when you lived in them.
8 But now you yourselves are to put off all these: anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy language out of your mouth. 9 Do not lie to one another, since you have put off the old man with his deeds,


Revelation 20:15
15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.


Revelation 21:8
8 But the cowardly, unbelieving,[a] abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”





-It is very clear by these verses that there is more one can do outside the 10 commandments that will also cause them not to go to heaven, and it doesnt say this is is to unsaved people only. This apply to unbelievers and so called believers, you must live a holy life. There is no way you can be saved and then decided to live the lifestyles listed above and think you are saved in the end, unless you backslid and repented and didnt go back to that lifestyle.

 

[squint]

I think its a false doctrine and the reason why so many Christians live as they please because they think there is no consequences for their actions.

IF your government dictated certain actions to you with an 'or else you will die' attached and you obeyed, were you really obedient?

Or were you really just obedient to save your own hide?

Feigned obedience under threat or duress doesn't even hold up in civil or criminal court.

 

[Albion]

I think its a false doctrine and the reason why so many Christians live as they please because they think there is no consequences for their actions.

Just a minute. We cannot say that a doctrine is wrong merely because there are people who are phony Christians.

There is no way you can be saved and then decided to live the lifestyles listed above and think you are saved in the end

I agree. There is no way that such a person is among the saved. But that doesn't have anything to do with those who are.

 

[catholichomeschooler]

But that doesn't have anything to do with those who are.

If you don't think our decisions and actions impact our salvation, why does anyone go to Hell?

 

[ChetSinger]

To me, a relevant question is this: can a "believer" stop "believing"? I think the answer is "yes", and is indicated by (among others) this passage from Jesus:

And the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear the word, receive it with joy. But these have no root; they believe for a while, and in time of testing fall away. - Luke 8:13

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

If you don't think our decisions and actions impact our salvation, why does anyone go to Hell?

Predestination perhaps

Jde 1:4
For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ

 

[squint]

If you don't think our decisions and actions impact our salvation, why does anyone go to Hell?

No believer has sinless decisions/actions.

 

[Mama Kidogo]

Predestination perhaps

Jde 1:4
For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ

Except that would denote God's will being different from God's will that no man perish.

 

[catholichomeschooler]

No believer has sinless decisions/actions.

That's why we must confess our sins and repent.

 

[catholichomeschooler]

Predestination perhaps

Jde 1:4
For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ

That can't be it, because we know that God wants all men to be saved and he wants the wicked to turn from the wicked ways and live.

These men in this passage freely chose evil, which is why they were ordained to condemnation. God already knows what choices we will make.

 

[Albion]

To me, a relevant question is this: can a "believer" stop "believing"? I think the answer is "yes", and is indicated by (among others) this passage from Jesus:

And the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear the word, receive it with joy. But these have no root; they believe for a while, and in time of testing fall away. - Luke 8:13

But that verse doesn't refer to these people as ever having been true believers or as having been saved or as having Faith.

The profile that's described there reminds me of people we've all known who get all excited when they hear a powerful sermon or experience some beautiful religious feeling...but it only lasts for a few days and then they are back to their old selves.

 

[SAAN]

IF your government dictated certain actions to you with an 'or else you will die' attached and you obeyed, were you really obedient?

Or were you really just obedient to save your own hide?

Feigned obedience under threat or duress doesn't even hold up in civil or criminal court.

But what is our Government doing that makes us go against the laws of God?

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

Except that would denote God's will being different from God's will that no man perish.

Scriture contradicting scripture. How odd.

 

[squint]

But what is our Government doing that makes us go against the laws of God?

Point being if believers 'think' they are obedient to avoid hell, they really are not obedient.

They are doing what they are being forced to do under threat or duress.

 

[SAAN]

Just a minute. We cannot say that a doctrine is wrong merely because there are people who are phony Christians.




I agree. There is no way that such a person is among the saved. But that doesn't have anything to do with those who are.

But how can someone be a phony Christian though. The bible says if you confess with your mouth and believe in your heart Jesus is Lord you will be saved. Many people do that, so they are technically saved, but they go right back to their old lifestyle of sexual immorality, or any other lifestyle that they were to turn away from and see no issue with it.

I see once Saved Always saved as a TRUE Christian may slip up at times, but they are convicted by the holy spirt and they repent and make efforts not to go back to those sins. They may struggle with it and keep slipping up, but sooner or later if they are really convicted they will stop.

But if you have no regrets and just live as you please regardless of what the bible says, the bible is quite clear you will not go to heaven if you are living and unrepentant sinful lifestyle and you die in those sins.

 

[SAAN]

Point being if believers 'think' they are obedient to avoid hell, they really are not obedient.

They are doing what they are being forced to do under threat or duress.

Its their own free choice. They can choose not to commit sexual immorality, lie, steal, etc, but if they are doing it thinking god works will save them rather than faith, they are in trouble.

 

[squint]

Its their own free choice.

It's not a free choice. It's no different than someone holding a gun to your head and demanding you dance a jig OR ELSE.

Performance under threat or duress is ACTING. In essence this activity is hypocrisy. They are only pretending in order to dodge the penalty.

They can choose not to commit sexual immorality, lie, steal, etc, but if they are doing it thinking god works will save them rather than faith, they are in trouble.

Remove the threat and then see who serves. Otherwise it's just more bad acting to avoid the penalty.

s

 

[Albion]

But how can someone be a phony Christian though. The bible says if you confess with your mouth and believe in your heart Jesus is Lord you will be saved. Many people do that, so they are technically saved, but they go right back to their old lifestyle of sexual immorality, or any other lifestyle that they were to turn away from and see no issue with it.

Oh but the Bible is not saying that there's something magical in uttering those words and then you are home free. It is speaking of a real conversion in which it really comes from the heart.

I see once Saved Always saved as a TRUE Christian may slip up at times, but they are convicted by the holy spirt and they repent and make efforts not to go back to those sins.

OK. I agree.

They may struggle with it and keep slipping up, but sooner or later if they are really convicted they will stop.

Sounds right to me also.

But if you have no regrets and just live as you please regardless of what the bible says, the bible is quite clear you will not go to heaven if you are living and unrepentant sinful lifestyle and you die in those sins.

All right, but what you are describing is someone who did not have real faith and so was never motivated to live the Christlike life. It's someone who's conscience was never troubled, who did not struggle with sin, and all that fits the person you described above.

 

[Mama Kidogo]

Scriture contradicting scripture. How odd.

Except it doesn't. It's just from a poor understanding of the word "predestined" and having God live by man's concept of time.

 

[squint]

I've heard every non OSAS believer say, "well, if I won't go to hell I can just do anything I want."

Oh yeah? Do you think God doesn't know what you really want to do without the threat of hell?

God knows. We can pretend we're not sinners by some gauge of external actions, but that was NEVER the case.

We all are in fact sinners regardless of our external actions.

And God in fact saves sinners. God has never saved a non-sinner because they don't exist.

s