why do people think ot covenant are still active?

[Maria Billingsley]

Is there anyone not guilty of all, besides Jesus?

That is the point, no one can keep the Law so there is a better way through Jesus Christ of Nazareth.
Blessings

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Is there anyone not guilty of all, besides Jesus?

We can become not guilty when we confess and forsake our sins.

Pro 28:13 He who covers his sins will not prosper,
But whoever confesses and forsakes them will have mercy.

God's law just shows us our sins, so we don't cover them Rom 3:20 Rom 7:7 James 1:22-26 James 2:10-12

God is so good when we are truly sorry and repent and confess , He cleanses us from our sins as if they have never happened

1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

And helps us forsake them by our love to Him and cooperation and willingness to die of self and submit to the will of God


John 14:15 “If you love Me, keep My commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you. 18 I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you.

 

[Jerry N.]

That is the point, no one can keep the Law so there is a better way through Jesus Christ of Nazareth.
Blessings

I never implied that keeping the Law leads to salvation, and I made it clear that I believe in salvation through faith in the work of Christ.

Some Christians abstain from alcohol. Some Christians don’t wear makeup. Some Christians don’t watch movies. Some Christians wear a certain type of clothing. None of them are accused of salvation through works by thinking Christians. Why would some Christians object to other Christians keeping laws given by God as a way to separate themselves from the world? The same type of people who object to our SDA brothers and sisters keeping Sabbath might insist that Christians should not drink beer, or work on Sunday, or several other things. I don’t understand it.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

I never implied that keeping the Law leads to salvation, and I made it clear that I believe in salvation through faith in the work of Christ.

Some Christians abstain from alcohol. Some Christians don’t wear makeup. Some Christians don’t watch movies. Some Christians wear a certain type of clothing. None of them are accused of salvation through works by thinking Christians. Why would some Christians object to other Christians keeping laws given by God as a way to separate themselves from the world?

Exactly. The whole point of coming to Christ. He is not going to leave us in our sinful condition, its what the New Covenant is really about. We need a conversion in Christ leaving the old man behind.

Eze 36: 26 I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; I will take the heart of stone out of your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. 27 I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments and do them.

If we are in the New Covenant, our heart has been transformed because God put a new spirit within us causing us to leave our life of sin and obey God's law that He placed not on hearts of stone, but hearts of flesh and He causes or enables us to keep His laws through our love to Him which we should want to obey God's law because why would we not want to do what our Father asks, and He is enabling us though His Spirit to keep John 14:15-18

If we are arguing against God's law, we need to look at our heart and the spirit within is that is not allowing God to transforms our lives. We are not saved by good works, good works are a consequence of God's Spirit working within us.

Phil 2:13 for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure.

 

[fhansen]

Because the church fathers deuteronomied and cursed (anathema) anyone who believed different at Nicea.

The old covenant may have passed away onto the new covenant. However, the enacting of a curse is what made the law, the law.

People today who appear to be under the law are simply under the founding curses. The law really is not in effect, but a similar event occurred early on so it looks really really similar.

Been awhile since I read the decisions and decrees of Nicea but I don't recollect any anathematizing involving the old covenant.

 

[fhansen]

Hebrews 8:13
very simple
its not

New International Version
By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.

New Living Translation
When God speaks of a “new” covenant, it means he has made the first one obsolete. It is now out of date and will soon disappear.

English Standard Version
In speaking of a new covenant, he makes the first one obsolete. And what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

Berean Standard Bible
By speaking of a new covenant, He has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and aging will soon disappear.

Berean Literal Bible
In saying, "new," He has made obsolete the first; and that which is growing old and aging is near vanishing.

King James Bible
In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

New King James Version
In that He says, “ A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

New American Standard Bible
When He said, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is about to disappear.

The new covenant did not revoke the old; it simply made the old obsolete: because the new could actually, finally, accomplish what the old could not: authentic righteousness in man. This occurs as we turn to God in faith, thus becoming "My people" (Jer 31:33). Reconciliation and communion with God first of all, not mere law-abiding, is the essence and basis of the new covenant-and the difference between the old and the new. Then He puts His "law in our minds and writes in on our hearts".

IOW, fallen man's problem, his "falleness", isn't resolved by his acting or pretending to be righteous or unfallen, by obedience of the law first, IOW. Rather, the most basic underlying root of his problem is that he exists is a state of alienation from his Creator. That's the essence of his injustice and that must be resolved first of all; man must return to fellowship with God, now subjugated to Him rather than disobedient, now heeding His voice, before any real, lasting moral integrity is even possible. That's why Jesus came, "in the fullness of time" when humankind was finally, perhaps barely, ready to receive the light- to reveal the true God and unite us back with Him.

"I will be their God,
and they will be my people.
No longer will they teach their neighbor,
or say to one another, ‘Know the Lord,’
because they will all know me,
from the least of them to the greatest,”
declares the Lord." Jer 31:33-34

"Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent." John 17:3

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Been awhile since I read the decisions and decrees of Nicea but I don't recollect any anathematizing involving the old covenant.

It was a correlation of OT event and Church history. The anathematizing of the church councils is like the curses of Deuteronomy. It results in Church history continuing to follow the pattern of the old testament.

 

[fhansen]

It was a correlation of OT event and Church history. The anathematizing of the church councils is like the curses of Deuteronomy. It results in Church history continuing to follow the pattern of the old testament.

Well...I just thought they were doing a pretty fair job of defending and preserving the true faith- lest the whole world become Arian in this case, as St Jerome lamented could happen. And even if they were using what's come to be considered some rather antiquated sentiments and language with the anathemas, they were issued in the New Testament as well, in Acts, Romans, 1 Corinthians, and Galatians.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Well...I just thought they were doing a pretty fair job of defending and preserving the true faith- lest the whole world become Arian in this case, as St Jerome lamented could happen. And even if they were using what's come to be considered some rather antiquated sentiments and language with the anathemas, they were issued in the New Testament as well, in Acts, Romans, 1 Corinthians, and Galatians.

Things were out of hand, so "they did as they saw fit," this was the fulfillment of the judges.

 

[Jerry N.]

From what I have read, Arius himself did not set out to cause harm. However, his doctrines were a threat, because they were used by the likes of those later called Gnostics. Things were indeed getting “out of hand” in the Eastern Church, and Arius did not seem to do much to quell the conflict. Maybe my history is incorrect.

In Jewish teaching, the Messiah is fully human and not God, but that didn’t stop many Jews from becoming Christians. I often wondered if those Jewish Christians recognized the divine nature of Christ before or after they were saved. This might have some bearing on how one should think about churches today that don’t accept the Nicene Creed. Mormons and Jehovah Witnesses already have faith, but it seems misdirected rather than fully absent. When Witnesses come to my door, I respect their devotion even though I disagree. It always leaves me with mixed feelings.

 

[fhansen]

Things were out of hand, so "they did as they saw fit," this was the fulfillment of the judges.

Things get out of hand in this present world; controversies and conflicts and struggles arise, as was already happening in Acts. And yet the Holy Spirit nonetheless wins out in His church at the end of the day despite human limitations, ignorance, weakness, sin. Jesus had to leave, but He didn’t leave us alone.

 

[timothyu]

It’s not about religion, the.various sects or churches. People are quick to defend their team. It’s always been about God’s truth as spoken by Jesus and nothing else. People need to focus on what matters. Human opinion or rituals about God’s Truth is irrelevant

 

[fhansen]

It’s not about religion, the.various sects or churches. People are quick to defend their team. It’s always been about God’s truth as spoken by Jesus and nothing else. People need to focus on what matters. Human opinion about God’ Truth is irrelevant

But at the end of the day, whether it's the opinion of a team or the opinion of an individual, it's still all about human opinion, as to what exactly God's truth is, how revelation is interpreted.

 

[timothyu]

actly God's truth is, how revelation is interpreted.

Which is simply still another example of man putting our will first, seeing it through our eyes, not His

 

[fhansen]

Which is simply still another example of man putting our will first, seeing it through our eyes, not His

It's often just the way we sincerely interpret it, whether rightly or wrongly. Everyone thinks that they're just receivng the truth directly, first-hand, but they're filtering through the lens of limited, fallible human thought, with the result being their opinion. The more infomed they are, the better the odds that their opinion will be correct, but this is not guaranteed by any means, which is why sincere qualified bible scholars, theologians, et al often seriously disagree on their understandings.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Things get out of hand in this present world; controversies and conflicts and struggles arise, as was already happening in Acts. And yet the Holy Spirit nonetheless wins out in His church at the end of the day despite human limitations, ignorance, weakness, sin. Jesus had to leave, but He didn’t leave us alone.

You're one of the good ones and I won't disagree with the sentiment The Holy Spirit wins out in the end, since I agree.

God bless.

 

[timothyu]

which is why sincere qualified bible scholars, theologians, et al often seriously disagree on their understandings.

Yep. Self determination. One of the 7 deadly selfs

 

[fhansen]

Yep. Self determination. One of the 7 deadly selfs

Alright, and then how do you differ?

 

[timothyu]

Alright, and then how do you differ?

Interestingly promoting Jesus’ gospel of the Kingdom can be done with His words and needs no theology ritual or religion. It was so simple a child could understand. Adults not so much as they are already indoctrinated intro the adversarial world of man. Even the Lords Prayer can sum it up

 

[fhansen]

Interestingly promoting Jesus’ gospel of the Kingdom can be done with His words and needs no theology ritual or religion. It was so simple a child could understand. Adults not so much as they are already indoctrinated intro the adversarial world of man. Even the Lords Prayer can sum it up

Ritual or not the faith has always been easy to understand for the childlike, the illiterate, the simple. Hear the Word, turn to God in faith and be baptized in response to Jesus's model and command-and you've entered His family, now united with Him. Children of His are empowered to live and love as He does-and we must. If we don't, if we were to stray seriously into sin, a life opposed to faith, hope, and love, we can still have a change of heart and confess our sin, and be restored to the family, His fold. Those are the basics, and those were understood by my semi-literate grandmother from the foot-hills of the Italian alps well over a century ago, as they had been for multiple centuries before that. And I'd challenge anyone to show me a stronger faith than that woman had.