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why do people think ot covenant are still active?

DaveM

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Hebrews 8:13
very simple
its not


New International Version
By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.

New Living Translation
When God speaks of a “new” covenant, it means he has made the first one obsolete. It is now out of date and will soon disappear.

English Standard Version
In speaking of a new covenant, he makes the first one obsolete. And what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

Berean Standard Bible
By speaking of a new covenant, He has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and aging will soon disappear.

Berean Literal Bible
In saying, "new," He has made obsolete the first; and that which is growing old and aging is near vanishing.

King James Bible
In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

New King James Version
In that He says, “ A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

New American Standard Bible
When He said, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is about to disappear.
 

SabbathBlessings

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I think a lot of people have a misunderstanding of the New Covenant.

While the New Covenant is New and the Old Covenant is obsolete, we need to understand what the New Covenant is established on. Many people teach all new laws, but does the Scriptures teach this?

The Old Covenant was the Ten Commandments written on Stone

Exo 34:28 So he was there with the Lord forty days and forty nights; he neither ate bread nor drank water. And He wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant, the Ten Commandments.

It was based on the power of the people doing

Exo 19:8 Then all the people answered together and said, “All that the Lord has spoken we will do.” So Moses brought back the words of the people to the Lord.

Of course it didn't take long to break this covenant.

So God in His compassion for His people instead of discarding us, He writes a New Covenant.

However God said He would not alter the Words of His Covenant Psa 89:34, not a jot or tittle can pass Mat 5:18

So He instead makes a New Covenant still with Israel but established on better promises

Heb 8:6 But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, inasmuch as He is also Mediator of a better covenant, which was established on better promises.

It still has God's law, just as God promised He would not alter and He keeps His promises, because how can you make God's personal Testimony Exo 31:18 Deut 4:13 written by our perfect Saviors own finger, more perfect Psa 19:7

So what He did is He internalized His law by writing it in our hearts and minds and now we can keep them based on what He will do, instead of keeping on our own strength, much better promise.

Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.

We still have to love and cooperate with Him, but He is the one doing now

John 14:15 If you love Me, keep My commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another [e]Helper, that He may abide with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you. 18 I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you.

Why its still a sin to break the least of these commandments in the NC 1 John 3:4 James 2:11-12 Mat 5:19-30 Rom 7:7 but now we can keep based on what God does, not on our own strength though our willingness and love to Him. Keeping in His strength is a much better promise along with having Him now as our High Priest and Mediator. God is so good.
 
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Gregory Thompson

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why do people think ot covenant are still active?​

Because the church fathers deuteronomied and cursed (anathema) anyone who believed different at Nicea.

The old covenant may have passed away onto the new covenant. However, the enacting of a curse is what made the law, the law.

People today who appear to be under the law are simply under the founding curses. The law really is not in effect, but a similar event occurred early on so it looks really really similar.
 
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SabbathBlessings

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Because the church fathers deuteronomied and cursed (anathema) anyone who believed different at Nicea.

The old covenant may have passed away onto the new covenant. However, the enacting of a curse is what made the law, the law.

People today who appear to be under the law are simply under the founding curses. The law really is not in effect, but a similar event occurred early on so it looks really really similar.
My Bible says to be under the law, means to be under the condemnation of the law i.e. the wages of sin is death. It also tells us who is under the law.

Rom 3:19 Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

It doesn't mean, if I don't keep God's law I am not under the curse, its the opposite. All you have to do is read the last chapter of Revelation, one of the last verses in the Bible before the Revelation of Jesus Christ to know this is not so Rev 22:14-15 same as what Jesus said at His Second Coming Mat 7:21-23

20 Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

God's law can't save us, it just shows us our sins, like a mirror, so we can see when we are dirty and sin and go to Jesus who has the solution who can change our heart, which means change our direction when we go to Him sorry we broke His law and ask for His forgiveness and He is so faithful to cleanse us of all sin and unrighteousness and when He heals He says go and sin no more, because no one is saved in our sins Heb 10:26-30, He came to save us from sin Mat 1:21 we need a complete transformation in Christ.

Here is another example where being under the law doesn't mean we don't have to keep

Gal 5:16 I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. 17 For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law. (under the condemnation - that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.)

19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

God's law and Testimony Exo 31:18 is not against God's Spirit.

No wonder why Jesus taught not to break or teach others to break the least of these commandments Mat 5:19-30 quoting from Exo 20:1-17.

If we are submitting to the Spirit, Gods commandments would be kept and we would be abiding in Him

1 John 3:24 Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.
 
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Clare73

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Only about 1% of Christianity teaches the OT covenant is still active. And that minority teaching didn't really get going until the 19th century.
The New Covenant is established on the new command: love one another as I have loved you (Jn 13:34).

The New Covenant is not established on law keeping, but on the regenerate heart that loves one another as Jesus loved us.
The New Covenant is not simply about "do no harm," it is about loving one another.

That being the case, the New Covenant is exceedingly superior to the obsolete Old Covenant (Heb 8), loving God and neighbor being the overarching principle, to which the Decalogue is a guide toward the broader principle of love. The meaning of the Decalogue is reinterpreted and expanded in the New Covenant context, from "do no harm" to "love one another as I have loved you."
 
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SabbathBlessings

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1 John 13:34 34 A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another; as I have loved you, that you also love one another.

Missing words: established on, covenant , not on law keeping

What does the New Covenant say verbatim:

Heb 8: 6 But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, inasmuch as He is also Mediator of a better covenant, which was established on better promises.

What does the New Covenant say it has according to God.

His laws
plural, not based on a single command.

10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.

How did God love us?

John 3:16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. 17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.
18 “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God

He gave us His only Son, not only to take the penalty of death, but show us how a righteous one lives through His example we are to follow John 15:10 1 John 2:6 1 Peter 2:21-23 Heb 4:15

While Jesus gave us everything there is a condemnation if we choose to stay in darkness (sin) which is breaking God's law 1 John 3:4 breaking one we break them all even in the NC James 2:11-12

John 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed. 21 But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God.”

This is what God's law is about showing us our sins Rom 3:20 Rom 7:7 coming to the light (Truth-Jesus John 14:6) and asking His forgiveness when we are truly sorry and having a complete transformation in Him, keeping His commandments by our love through His power John 14:15-18
 
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Clare73

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1 John 13:34 34 A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another; as I have loved you, that you also love one another.
Missing words: established on, covenant , not on law keeping
What does the New Covenant say verbatim:
Heb 8: 6 But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, inasmuch as He is also Mediator of a better covenant, which was established on better promises.
What does the New Covenant say it has according to God.

His laws
plural, not based on a single command.

10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.

How did God love us?

John 3:16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. 17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.
18 “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God

He gave us His only Son, not only to take the penalty of death, but show us how a righteous one lives through His example we are to follow John 15:10 1 John 2:6 1 Peter 2:21-23 Heb 4:15

While Jesus gave us everything there is a condemnation if we choose to stay in darkness (sin) which is breaking God's law 1 John 3:4 breaking one we break them all even in the NC James 2:11-12

John 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed. 21 But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God.”

This is what God's law is about showing us our sins Rom 3:20 Rom 7:7 coming to the light (Truth-Jesus John 14:6) and asking His forgiveness when we are truly sorry and having a complete transformation in Him, keeping His commandments by our love through His power John 14:15-18
I'm sure you'll understand if my focus is on Jesus' new command of the New Covenant: "love one another as I have loved you," (Jn 13:34)
rather than on the Decalogue of the obsolete Old Covenant (Heb 8:13), "do no harm."
 
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Clare73

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If they were led by The Holy Spirit, they would know better,.... they are not led by The Holy Spirit, they want to be under the law instead.
It seems that "love one another as I have loved you" rather than "do no harm" would be their NT-favored focus.
 
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RandyPNW

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Where truth is there is always error, as well. People will argue about what the OT Covenant even is. They will argue over what laws are still relevant since the tearing of the Temple veil at Christ's crucifixion.

Essentially, the NT Scriptures contain both OT and NT periods--mostly the NT period. But the 4 Gospels speak of the earthly ministry of Jesus, at which time the Law of Moses was still in effect.

Most Christians consider the Law of Moses as equal to the Old Covenant. That Law is in view throughout the OT Scriptures.

Once the veil was torn, the Law of Moses is viewed as ended. Whatever truth remains out of the Law of Moses is exemplary, ie it gives us examples of what God was like in the past and still is in the future, despite the passing of the Law of Moses and its Covenant.
 
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NewLifeInChristJesus

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why do people think ot covenant are still active?​


Hebrews 8:13
very simple
its not

New International Version
By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.

New Living Translation
When God speaks of a “new” covenant, it means he has made the first one obsolete. It is now out of date and will soon disappear.

English Standard Version
In speaking of a new covenant, he makes the first one obsolete. And what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

Berean Standard Bible
By speaking of a new covenant, He has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and aging will soon disappear.

Berean Literal Bible
In saying, "new," He has made obsolete the first; and that which is growing old and aging is near vanishing.

King James Bible
In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

New King James Version
In that He says, “ A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

New American Standard Bible
When He said, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is about to disappear.
Without getting too technical about what it means to "think the OT covenant is still active", I would say that the reason is that they refuse to give up human effort as the way to eternal life. I suspect this is because the flesh has a huge desire to prove its own worth.
 
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NewLifeInChristJesus

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Without getting too technical about what it means to "think the OT covenant is still active", I would say that the reason is that they refuse to give up human effort as the way to eternal life. I suspect this is because the flesh has a huge desire to prove its own worth. At least most of them have "forgiveness" in their doctrine also. Maybe that's the only important thing.
 
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ARBITER01

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Where truth is there is always error, as well. People will argue about what the OT Covenant even is. They will argue over what laws are still relevant since the tearing of the Temple veil at Christ's crucifixion.

Essentially, the NT Scriptures contain both OT and NT periods--mostly the NT period. But the 4 Gospels speak of the earthly ministry of Jesus, at which time the Law of Moses was still in effect.

Most Christians consider the Law of Moses as equal to the Old Covenant. That Law is in view throughout the OT Scriptures.

Once the veil was torn, the Law of Moses is viewed as ended. Whatever truth remains out of the Law of Moses is exemplary, ie it gives us examples of what God was like in the past and still is in the future, despite the passing of the Law of Moses and its Covenant.

It's also a persons view on the importance of scripture as a whole.

If people raise the words of Jesus above what was spoken by The Holy Spirit through Paul and the other apostles, or they just refuse to acknowledge what The Holy Spirit spoke through them and seek to battle what Jesus said against them all the time, as if there was a constant contradiction between Jesus and them,..... then people have certainly learned the scriptures wrongly.

One of the main reasons the books of the NT scripture were chosen was because they agreed amongst themselves, there are no doctrinal contradictions.
 
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Clare73

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Without getting too technical about what it means to "think the OT covenant is still active", I would say that the reason is that they refuse to give up human effort as the way to eternal life. I suspect this is because the flesh has a huge desire to prove its own worth.
They need to believe there salvation is based on something they did in order to explain why all are not saved.
 
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Gregory Thompson

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My Bible says to be under the law, means to be under the condemnation of the law i.e. the wages of sin is death. It also tells us who is under the law.

Rom 3:19 Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

It doesn't mean, if I don't keep God's law I am not under the curse, its the opposite. All you have to do is read the last chapter of Revelation, one of the last verses in the Bible before the Revelation of Jesus Christ to know this is not so Rev 22:14-15 same as what Jesus said at His Second Coming Mat 7:21-23

20 Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

God's law can't save us, it just shows us our sins, like a mirror, so we can see when we are dirty and sin and go to Jesus who has the solution who can change our heart, which means change our direction when we go to Him sorry we broke His law and ask for His forgiveness and He is so faithful to cleanse us of all sin and unrighteousness and when He heals He says go and sin no more, because no one is saved in our sins Heb 10:26-30, He came to save us from sin Mat 1:21 we need a complete transformation in Christ.

Here is another example where being under the law doesn't mean we don't have to keep

Gal 5:16 I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. 17 For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law. (under the condemnation - that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.)

19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

God's law and Testimony Exo 31:18 is not against God's Spirit.

No wonder why Jesus taught not to break or teach others to break the least of these commandments Mat 5:19-30 quoting from Exo 20:1-17.

If we are submitting to the Spirit, Gods commandments would be kept and we would be abiding in Him

1 John 3:24 Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.
Thanks for the explanation, but that's not what I was talking about.

Since you don't seem all that interested, I won't explain further.
 
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SabbathBlessings

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Thanks for the explanation, but that's not what I was talking about.

Since you don't seem all that interested, I won't explain further.
My apologies if I misunderstood, I was replying to this

People today who appear to be under the law are simply under the founding curses. The law really is not in effect, but a similar event occurred early on so it looks really really similar.

I am not aware that God's law is not in effect as it is not something I have found in my Bible, even in the NT breaking God's law is still sin Mat 7:7 Mat 5:19--30 Mat 15:3-14 and keeping God's law is still love to Him and neighbor 1 John 5:2-3 Rom 13:9 John 14:15 and how we are called to be saints Rev 14:12 and reconciled Rev 22:14

If I misunderstood, again my apologies and I would be happy for you to explain further. :)
 
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SabbathBlessings

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I think people are misunderstanding the role of God's law- its actually not to save us, it actually to help us see our true condition so we will hopefully do something about it. Removing God's law as if it doesn't exist, when its God's standard of judgement Ecc 12:13-14 Mat 5:19-30 Jam 2:11-12 Rev 22:141-5 is not the solution

God's law is like a mirror so we can see our true condition and see our sins

James 1:22 But be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves. 23 For if anyone is a hearer of the word and not a doer, he is like a man observing his natural face in a mirror; 24 for he observes himself, goes away, and immediately forgets what kind of man he was. 25 But he who looks into the perfect law of liberty and continues in it, and is not a forgetful hearer but a doer of the work, this one will be blessed in what he does.

James 2:11 For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not murder.” Now if you do not commit adultery, but you do murder, you have become a transgressor of the law (quoting and contrasting the Ten Commandments found in Exo 20:1-17). 12 So speak and so do as those who will be judged by the law of liberty.

Rom 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Rom 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through the law. For I would not have known covetousness unless the law had said, “You shall not covet.” again quoting from the Ten Commandments found in Exo 20:1-17

This is all New Covenant and as we can clearly see God wrote His laws in our hearts and minds and not just one single law. His law and Testimony Deut 4:13, written personally by the God of the Universe Exo 31:18 will be the standard of Judgement why its in the Most Holy of His Temple and why we see them at the last trumpet before the Second Coming of Jesus Christ Rev 11:18-19

Covering our sins is not the solution

Pro 28:13 He who covers his sins will not prosper,
But whoever confesses and forsakes them will have mercy.


And laying aside God's commandments as if to say they are not for me, or editing them when we are told not to Pro 30:5-6 Mat 5:18 Psa 89:34, Jesus said quoting from the Ten Commandments is not the solution either

Mark 7: And in vain they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’
8 For laying aside the commandment of God, you hold the tradition of men

Because no one is saved in their sins

Heb 10:26 For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries. 28 Anyone who has rejected Moses’ law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know Him who said, “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay,” [g]says the Lord. And again, “The Lord will judge His people.” 31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

Jesus came to save us from our sins Mat 1:21 not in them.

It requires to have an honest look at ourselves compared to God's righteous standard- His holy law and see where we find ourselves short. There is no sin too great for Jesus and asking for His help in overcoming and He wants nothing more than to come to Him with a humble heart asking for His help revealing any hidden sin and help overcome our sins, but being in denial to our sins and covering them and not allowing God to be God to define sin is not the solution. He did so personally, through His holy and eternal law Mat 5:19, written by His own finger, Exo 31:18 Deut 4:13 which is the Holy Spirit of Truth, that is now written in our hearts and minds Heb 8:10 as long as we don't rebel against what God placed there Rom 8:7-8

While we are saved by grace through faith, because everyone has sinned and broke God's law, but what does faith mean? Sadly many think it means not listening to the Holy Spirit calling us out of our rebellion Heb 3:7-8 not listening to the teachings and examples of Jesus Christ. How do we have the faith of Jesus Rev 14:12 but not follow and believe all of His teachings. It was never pick the one teaching we like and ignore all the others or a new commandment somehow deletes all of the others when no Scripture say that. Jesus said, who is God that became flesh quoting from the OT that man should live by every Word that proceeds out of the mouth of God. Mat 4:4 this is the faith that reconciles back to Jesus Rev 22:14.

I know this is not a popular teaching, but don't let the influence of others who are teaching that breaking the least of Gods commandments and laying them aside are okay when Jesus plainly taught and lived the opposite. Mat 5:19-30 Mat 15:3-14 Mark 7:7-13 Mat 19:17-19 John 14:15 John 15:4,5,10 1 John 2:6

Let Jesus be our guide back to Him leading us on the narrow path back to reconciliation Rev 22:14

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
 
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