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Featured Why do people reject Jesus Christ?

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by Emli, Oct 19, 2018.

  1. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    Do you believe 1 John 1:8 is a declaration that we will always sin in this life? Do you believe King David was saved while he committed his sins of adultery and murder?

    If so, how can one obey and or follow after holiness?
     
  2. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Those who are born-again overcome all sin and live holy lifestyles.

    “For everyone who has been born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith. Who is it that overcomes the world except the one who believes that Jesus is the Son of God?” (1 John 5:4–5)
     
  3. RaymondG

    RaymondG Well-Known Member

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    I find it unfortunate, when one rejects Christ. Do you view this otherwise? Im asking, how can talking about this, or anything others are doing that we feel is not right, can help them...or us? Again, if you find that someone rejecting Christ, is not a misfortune, than this question does not apply to you. But you can still answer if you feel there are other cases in which talking about the sin of others can help them or us.
     
  4. Emli

    Emli Growing daughter of God Supporter

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    Of course it depends on the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is our spirituality. If He fills us and leads us and gives us the words to speak, that is Him working through us to preach the Gospel. And we can do nothing without Him. John 15:5. We cannot produce fruit by our own strength or in the flesh. All fruit is produced by the Father as we abide in Him. If a person is walking in the flesh and is quenching the Spirit or doesn't have the Spirit, and they preach the Bible anyway, then his or her words aren't God's words. They are originally His words which they are quoting, but they wouldn't be effective, because they wouldn't be spoken by Him in that moment. That person would be led by their own understanding instead of what God is revealing to them. And in the worst case, it could hurt or mislead people, teaching false doctrines.

    I think you may have a negative view of spirituality. Spirituality in the Holy Spirit isn't anything spectacular, or anything that can give us pride (though many falsely believe that it is). Because we can only be filled with and led by the Spirit if we are humble. Otherwise we quench Him. The Holy Spirit gives us a sound mind and a mind that is entirely focused on God, just like Jesus was.

    "But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control." Galatians 5:22-23

    But we preach with power, His power. 1 Corinthians 2:4, 1 Thessalonians 1:5.

    That doesn't depend at all on our own so-called "spirituality" or on our own power, strength or intellectual abilities, but completely on the Holy Spirit which is our real spirituality, which is the point I have been trying to make.
     
  5. Emli

    Emli Growing daughter of God Supporter

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    Cool. I'll make sure to look up their website. :)
     
  6. Dave G.

    Dave G. Well-Known Member

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    If you need any assistance just shoot off a PM to me Emli.
     
  7. Hammster

    Hammster Melanin Level - Low Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

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    I think you misunderstood what I said. This is part of a long conversation we are having. You tend to take things out of context.

    My point, as evidenced by the context of the conversation, is that the effectiveness of what is preached is dependent on the Holy Spirit. So the person preaching could not be saved at all, but that has no bearing on how the hearer is affected. That is entirely the work of the Holy Spirit.
     
  8. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    The Bible talks about those who reject Christ.
    If it is in the Bible (and it is), then it is there for our learning and we can also talk about it.

    I did not know what you were referring to at first. Now, I got it. You were referring to the OP topic. I do find it to be a misfortune that folks would reject Christ, but to see why they do will help wake up those who may be in a spiritual sleep and need to be awakened by seeking God's forgiveness and by walking uprightly with God.

    The Bible talks about the sins of others many times and these words are in our Bible for our learning and instruction in righteousness.
     
  9. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    That really did not answer my questions.
    Do you believe 1 John 1:8 is saying that a believer will always sin in this life?
    Do you believe David was saved even while he committed his sins of adultery and murder?
     
  10. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member Supporter

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    God used Bathsheba in Jesus' ancestry. He probably would not have been physically the same if not for her. So there's more going on than what you assume in this situation. Our flesh is wicked, but in the new birth we can overpower it. Born again people do this all the time. If you are not born again, sin is inevitable.
     
  11. Zoii

    Zoii Well-Known Member

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    That was a very pride-filled and arrogant answer and kinda reinforced my whole point.
     
  12. Emli

    Emli Growing daughter of God Supporter

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    I have heard of people treating the Bible in that way too. It would be the same as worshipping statues or "holy objects". But that is not what I meant. There are those who put the Bible above God like the Pharisees were doing. They were seeking Scriptures to gain eternal life, and to look good to others, but they weren't seeking God. They were taking so much pride in knowing the words in the OT Scriptures, but they had no understanding. There are those today who memorize verses, but aren't applying them to their lives. That makes the Word devoid of power in their lives. It gives people a false spirituality and feeds their pride. Some people see the Bible as just a means to gain wisdom, but it becomes wordly wisdom and not Godly wisdom.

    Do you understand what I mean? If someone is not seeking God, but they seek to understand Scripture by their own understanding, then that becomes and idol.

    To us the Bible is a love letter. To them it is a means to gain power, glory, fame, money etc.

    Trust me, I know what you mean. It hurts my heart when I see it. I live by the Word, and only by the Word, unless God points me to something else as well (like science to explain Creation), but even then I'm careful not to let it taint my morals or my faith. Everyone should make the Bible their top priotity in their walks with God.

    I do agree with you. But you are talking about reading the Bible. I was talking specifically about quoting Scripture to an unbeliever, without explaining it. They cannot understand it. I have tried. If they read the Bible on their own, that is different. But if I give them a verse and it isn't what they need to hear or what they are capable of understanding (pearls to swine to an unbeliever, or meat to a new believer) then that verse will not have any positive effect on that person. It will probably just confuse them.

    I am going to retract that statement, because I see how it could be misinterpreted. But do you understand the point I was making?

    If I speak a verse to a person who is not capable of understanding it yet, like a seed that falls on unplowed ground, it won't grow. In that way, that seed will not give life to the person. Yes, the seed has life in it (okay, God corrected me just now with this), but it won't be able to grow or take root. That is what would happen if we speak Bible verses out of sync with what God is doing in that person.
     
  13. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    Again: You are ignoring my questions. How do you read 1 John 1:8? Do you believe this applies to the life of the believer? Or do you think it is saying something else? Was David saved while he committed his sins of adultery and murder?
     
  14. Emli

    Emli Growing daughter of God Supporter

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    He gives me the words to speak all day long when I witness or minister to others. It's rivers of living water. John 7:37-39. I don't always feel it, but I see the effect of it as the words I speak opens people's eyes and changes them. Because it is Him and not me who is speaking. I believe that He does this for everyone who is led by the Spirit, I'm just aware of it so I can take no credit, which I pridefully used to do. :) Then there are also gifts, but that's another topic for another time.
     
  15. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    Thanks Emli for clarifying your thoughts and for agreeing that there is life in the Bible. I fully understand what you mean that many will not receive the seed of the Word into their hearts. It is like seed thrown by the way side. While the parable of the Sower is talking about the entire life of individuals, I also see that that part of the parable could convey the truth that a person can hear the seed of the Word of God and refuse it, but then at a later point in time, they could receive the Word into their hearts, too.

    Meaning.... we have to have.... HOPE.
    Hope and prayer for those who do reject God's Word in what we have shown them. They may have rejected that seed at one point in time, but God can bring it back to them. Like Jonah, who did not want to go and preach to the Ninevites. God had other plans for him.

    We have to hold out hope for all people.
    Loving them with the love of God.
     
  16. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    I have just become more open to the gifts (tongues) as being a possibility. I believed the other gifts were possible, but I was not so sure about tongues. I am still on the fence on that one. I have to fast and pray about that topic a lot while studying Scripture to come to the truth on that one. David Servant (An Ohio preacher I discovered on YouTube convinced me a bit of the validity of tongues for our day (You can check out that short video here if you are interested); I like his sermons because they teach the necessity of how we have to obey as a part of the faith).

    Anyways, God bless you today Emli.
     
  17. RaymondG

    RaymondG Well-Known Member

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    Are you saying that the answers to the thread topic is already in the bible? And we are to talk about what the bible says about it? Or are we to also, point out people in the world and talking about how and why they are rejecting Christ?

    So you are hoping that the ones rejecting Christ are reading this thread, and with the help us talking about them, they can understand their errors and then come to Christ?

    I can understand your seeing this in the bible....and I do believe myself, that it is there for my my own learning. The part im confused about it the using it to talk about others......
     
  18. Zoii

    Zoii Well-Known Member

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    Not all Christians see religions divisively. No all enter an understanding that those worshipping God from another part of the world, must be wrong, because they adopt a separate way of worshipping and use another set of documents to support the paradigm of their religion.

    I think there is a great commonality in regions of the world. NONE of us knows for certain that what we say is true - that's a matter of faith and intellect. We cannot know for certain that Jesus was the son of God - that is a concept of faith.

    Nor can Moslems say with certainty that Mohammed ascended into heaven - that is a matter of faith for them, not fact.

    For me, those things are not so important. I recognise that just because something is written, does not mean it's true. What's important is to strive towards an understanding of God, and the meaning of life.
     
  19. Emli

    Emli Growing daughter of God Supporter

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    To be honest though, you rarely explain what you mean, so it's easy to misunderstand you. You post one sentence as a response to 20 sentences, ignoring most of what I have written. And I'm not taking anything out of context. I'm trying to put things into context.

    Of course the spiritual state of the person speaking affects what the other person hears.

    1 Corinthians 15:33 "Do not be misled: "Bad company corrupts good character."

    The Bible tells us over and over to watch out for false prophets, to avoid deception and false doctrines, to test all spirits. If someone lies to you and you agree with it, then that person has affected you. If the person speaks from their own mind and you agree you have believed in a doctrine of man. If that person's words come from an unclean spirit and you agree, you have believed in a doctrine of demons. If he or she speaks from the Spirit and you agree then you have believed sound doctrine.

    God could use an unsaved person, or anything that is in Creation, to speak to us. But we have to be careful. Should we listen to the devil or his false prophets as they are twisting Scripture taking it out of context? Or should we listen to the Holy Spirit as He teaches us sound doctrine?
     
  20. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    Can God not use real life situations for our learning?

    Uh, no. I am not hoping any person rejects Christ. Why would you think that? I am saying that while a person may reject Christ today, that does not mean they will reject Christ tomorrow or a few years later down the road. I used to be an atheist and I did not want to have anything to do with God. But God softened my heart by using love and then I later accepted Christ by hearing the Holy Scriptures.

    Were specific people mentioned who rejected Christ by name talked about here within this thread?
     
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