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Why do people reject Jesus Christ?

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by Emli, Oct 19, 2018.

  1. Hammster

    Hammster “Safeism” is the new religion. Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

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    Just want to say, it’s not about you.
     
  2. Dave G.

    Dave G. Well-Known Member

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    Hammster, no fire burning today. I know it's not about me but thank you anyway. Often the service lights the pathway, often scripture is quoted right where I was working in the bible earlier in the week or all week for that matter and the Spirit speaks. Thanks again.
     
  3. JustSomeBloke

    JustSomeBloke Well-Known Member Supporter

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    One of my friends is an atheist. I talk to them from time to time about religion, God, faith, the origins of the universe and humanity etc. etc. The impression I get is that they resent the notion of a higher authority, and that they will one day be judged. And also that they reject the idea that humans need any kind of guidance or moral backstop to regulate their behaviours and values. To put it another way, they have absolute faith in humans to be the moral and ethical arbiters on all matters.
     
  4. Wordkeeper

    Wordkeeper Newbie

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    In post #120 you said that salvation is a free gift, and quoted Ep 2:8. I informed you the free gift is making Gentiles eligible to be members of the Covenant, now it is possible they have a hope of being saved, the free gift is not salvation.

    How is informing you, of a wrong context you posted, off topic? You must not be scared of reformation. Luther began reforming and today scholars believe he had not reformed enough. Please follow through, argue if necessary, with different ideas that are given to you. Else you'll continue to go around in circles.
     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2018
  5. Emli

    Emli Growing daughter of God Supporter

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    That sounds interesting. Is it available on their webpage? I like watching sermons online. How did it work out? Did God put some fire in your heart?
    I just woke up and am on my way to work. 5 am. :expressionless:
     
  6. Emli

    Emli Growing daughter of God Supporter

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    It is not man-centered. How is pointing to Jesus by His power man-centered? It is JESUS-centered as opposed to Scripture-centered. It is 100% Biblical, but it is led by the Spirit.

    "Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God." Hebrews 12:2
     
  7. Emli

    Emli Growing daughter of God Supporter

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    I agree, but it's all about how we use the Bible, and that was the point I was trying to make. Those verses are talking about the Word of God and about Truth. Not about what man calls Scripture.

    “...the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.” (John 6:63).

    “Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life.” (John 6:68).

    That verse is about the words that Jesus was speaking. His Words, spoken by the Spirit. All Scripture is God-breathed. 2 Timothy 3:16-17. When I say that the Bible has no life in it's own, that is because if we read it in the flesh, we cannot understand it. That is where all doctrines of men come from. We need the Holy Spirit, and Jesus who is the Word of God. John 1:1-3. All Scripture points to Him. John 5:39

    "23 “Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
    24 For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away:
    25 But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.” (1 Peter 1:23-25).

    This is also about the Word of God, not the Bible itself. The Bible won't live forever. The Truth that it reveals us to us will.

    Another point is, of which I'm sure you'll agree, if we merely read the Word but not do the Word, it won't do us any good at all (and you did post James 1:22 already). Many are deceived into thinking that it will, but they aren't focusing on getting to know God or becoming like Him, but learning doctrines.

    We have to worship God in Spirit and in Truth. Truth is what Scripture teaches us (the unchanging nature of God, His ways, His will, His commands), and it is the Spirit that teaches us, leads us and transforms us.

    The Bible often becomes a weapon in the hands of a men who live in the flesh. Because they aren't speaking Truth and they aren't pointing to Jesus. It can be misused in so many ways, and if we don't have understanding if what it means or we don't have sound doctrine or the true Gospel, then what good will it do to give a few verses?

    Do you understand what I mean? I'm not opposing using the Bible, I wouldn't willingly speak a word that I didn't know is true with any authority, and without having the verses in my mind, but we have to be led by the Spirit. Without Him, there is no life. The Bible was breathed by God and it reveals God to us, but it isn't God Himself. The Word of God is God Himself.
     
  8. Hammster

    Hammster “Safeism” is the new religion. Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

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    You told me that isn’t how it works when I said I use scripture.
     
  9. Emli

    Emli Growing daughter of God Supporter

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    I told you that speaking only Scripture without giving a Spirit-led explanation isn't going to open anyone's eyes. I spent a lot of time reading only the Bible alone after I got saved. I learnt a lot, and I changed quickly by applying it to my life. But I could not understand Truth without watching sermons and reading what other mature Christians had learned, and I needed the Gospel explained as well at first. That is how it works in reality. Have you ever seen any evangelist or preacher only read from the Bible?
     
  10. Hammster

    Hammster “Safeism” is the new religion. Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

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    You assume that your explanation is Spirit-led. And if I’m understanding correctly, this thread is about why some don’t believe. And I’ve answered it, my answer is biblical, and it stands.
     
  11. Hammster

    Hammster “Safeism” is the new religion. Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

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    Yes.
     
  12. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    I disagree. The Bible is Scripture and it is God breathed.

    Jesus spoke the words that were given to Him by His Father.
    Men were under the inspiration of God when writing Scripture.
    It is God breathed.

    Jesus is saying His words are spiritual and they are life (eternal life). The very words can lead to life if we act upon them. They are the promises of God’s Word.

    Yes, this would be the Holy Bible.

    I believe God’s Word is a living book. It is not just words on a page even for that person who reads it from a carnal perspective. For yes, I agree that a person cannot understand Scripture or the Bible if they do not have the Holy Spirit. No doubt about it. But is in God’s best interest to get somebody to see the truth if they really are seeking it. For the very words of God do work upon a person’s heart because these words are divine in origin and they are not like other words or books. God draws people to hear His Word, but they have to not just read it, but they have to believe it with a pure heart and with good intentions. It requires faith. It’s a faith thing. If they believe it, they are going to want to act properly, and then God can move in their life by the Spirit. One reason why people do not understand God’s Word is because of their sin. With sin in the way, they will never understand it. Another reason why people do not understand God’s Word is because sometimes certain doctrines themselves are sinful, and hence why God cannot show a person the truth because man’s traditions or men’s wrong theologies gets in the way. They may sound comforting to them, but they are not true. Usually it is a belief that caters to their sin in some way or it is an attempt to malign the good character of GOD. This is why the Spirit cannot act in their life to give them understanding because they are wanting to see a doctrine that is sinful and wrong (Even when God’s Word lovingly calls them by it’s power).

    I disagree. Verse 25 says the word of the Lord endures forever.
    Then it says this word is by which the gospel is preached unto you.

    Verse 22 says, “Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit.”

    When Jesus was praying to the Father, He said,

    “Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth” (John 17:17).

    1 “Wherefore laying aside all malice, and all guile, and hypocrisies, and envies, and all evil speakings,
    2 As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby” (1 Peter 2:1-2).

    The milk of the Word is talking about a teaching within the Scriptures. So 1 Peter 1 is still talking about the Holy Scriptures (the Bible). For the Bible also talks about how there is the meat of the Word. The meat of the Word is to discern between good and evil. The milk of the Word is having a belief in Jesus for your salvation. But most cannot move past the milk of the Word.

    Yes, we have to seek to please the Lord and not ourselves.
    Granted, there is a satifisfaction in knowing God.
    The benefits of knowing God is beyond any treasure or pleasure that this world has to offer.
    But they need to experience that.

    I agree with what you stated here.

    It is true that God is spirit. However, the book conveys God’s thoughts and His heart to us. This Word leads us to salvation in Him. It is true we have to be led by the Spirit. But it is in God’s best interest to convict all men to repent. That is what the Scriptures are supposed to help a person with. They may fight against God’s Word in favoring a doctrine of man, but God is going to keep nudging them in love with His Word (Which is a living book). For they are the very words of God, that is accompanied by God trying to get men to listen to it.
     
  13. Emli

    Emli Growing daughter of God Supporter

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    No, I know that it is Spirit-led. Because it is exactly what the Bible tells us about the Holy Spirit and how He leads us. And all Scripture was given through the Spirit and points to God. It tells us what His will is and what our lives in Christ should look like. It is by the Word that we are sanctified. John 17:17. That is how we know if we have the Spirit or not, and once we know Him, then we will know when He is leading us. And we can know for sure, because the Word of God is true. He doesn't lie, so why should we not trust what He has spoken?

    You gave an answer that I specifically did not ask for in my OP. I made that clear. If you read the OP, you will see what it is that I'm actually asking about. Why someone rejects Christ in reality, why they reject the Spirit of God and being transformed into His image, and even after they have seen Him? Can you give a Biblical answer to that? That's what I'm wondering about.
     
  14. Emli

    Emli Growing daughter of God Supporter

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    Did it save anyone?
     
  15. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    I believe John 17:17 is saying this:

    49 “For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.
    50 And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.” (John 12:49-50).
     
  16. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    We see in Ephesians 5:25-27 that Jesus died so that He might cleanse us with the washing of the water of the Word so as to present Himself a church that is without spot, blameless, and holy.

    So we are sanctified by the written Word of God.
    For all Scripture is profitable for instruction in righteousneness so that the man of God may be perfect unto every good work (See 2 Timothy 3:16-17).
     
  17. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    2 “I will worship toward thy holy temple, and praise thy name for thy lovingkindness and for thy truth: for thou hast magnified thy word above all thy name.
    3 In the day when I cried thou answeredst me, and strengthenedst me with strength in my soul.
    4 All the kings of the earth shall praise thee, O LORD, when they hear the words of thy mouth”
    (Psalms 138:2-4).
     
  18. Hammster

    Hammster “Safeism” is the new religion. Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

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    The biblical answer is that either they are unregenerate sheep, or they are goats. It’s not complicate.
     
  19. Hammster

    Hammster “Safeism” is the new religion. Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

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    I wouldn’t know. But God’s word was proclaimed.

    You cannot argue someone into the Kingdom.
     
  20. Emli

    Emli Growing daughter of God Supporter

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    I agree with you. With all of what you wrote, except I am putting a lot more weight on the Spirit Himself. As I said, and as you said, the Bible is God-breathed. And the Spirit is His breath through which He breathed His words to us. The Father created the Heavens and the Earth by His Word and by the Holy Spirit. And He gave us His written Word so we can get to know Him, because our entire existence is about Him. But we have to remember not to but the Bible above God Himself, which many do.

    I'm thinking about Jesus in the wilderness, as He was tempted. The devil took verses out of context, but Jesus countered it by saying "it is written..." and then He spoke verses that were not taken out of context, but had a lot more understanding about God's nature, and about sin and righteousness, behind them than what we see when we read these verses without knowing the OT first. Because Jesus was putting emphasis on Truth (since He is the Truth, the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Truth, the Word is Truth) and He knew what God meant when He gave us the Old Testament. The devil has no Truth in him, and he was misusing Scripture to tempt Jesus. The Hebrew word for Truth, emet, also means faithfulness. Faithfulness to God, and the Greek word for faith, pistis, also means faithfulness. Jesus was faithful to God, He never sinned once, because He was the perfect image of God, He is the Word of God and He is Truth.

    If we lack understanding, then that also happens to all of us. It is exactly as you say, if we aren't seeking God from a pure heart, then we can read the Bible and it will not make any sense to us.

    That is why we must seek understanding and wisdom, and diligently study the Scriptures. We have to live by every word that comes from the mouth of God, and not just some of them. Led by the Spirit, so we can sure that we are listening to Him and not to our own minds or to the devil. That is the point I am making, and trust me, I'm not telling anyone not to read the Bible, in fact I am trying to tell everyone to read the Bible a lot more. I'm just saying that there is a lot more to it than just quoting a few verses which a lot of people do.
     
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