Why do people have a problem with prosperity teachings?

[watchtower08]

It is like what the Bible says- circles of arguments get us nowhere. That is all I will say, along with may the Lord bless you Word of Faithers then...

 

[KingZzub]

It is like what the Bible says- circles of arguments get us nowhere. That is all I will say, along with may the Lord bless you Word of Faithers then...

Having faith is the only way we can be blessed and the only way we can please God. So yes, we are blessed in abundance.

Thanks for realizing that you were inappropriate in your posting in the faith area. I hope you realize the Word of God is true and that God wants you to have a home and have good things to enjoy.

 

[CindyisHis]

Watchtower08,

Surely before you criticize prosperity teachings it would be sensible to actually learn what they are.

Prosperity is not simply what God wants to do for you, but what He wants to do for you and through you. God cannot get it through you if He cannot get it to you! In other words, you cannot give away what you have never had.

The reason many Christians are in debt, poor and broke is because of what you said earlier, that the path is narrow. So few people spend the time in the Word renewing their mind and giving to where the Holy Spirit leads them to give, and spend so little time in the presence of the Lord to have the wisdom to know how and when to give, and what work to do and receive witty ideas to generate wealth, that many, many Christians are poor and broke.

It is not just in prosperity many Christians live far below their potential in Christ, bubt in the realms of health, righteousness, shamelessness, faith, glory, peace, joy, relationships.

Prosperity teaching is that God loves you and is your Father and wants to give you everything in Christ. Your ignorance of what the word of faith actually is is shocking, and yet you still have the temerity to post in a Word-Faith forum criticisms of something you clearly know nothing about.

Unbelievable.

God sent His Son to die horrifically on a cross, to become poor so that you could become rich. In the light of that to say that God called you to be poor is gross and total ignorance of the Bible. You have based your theology on your circumstances not the Word of God. And because of that you are missing out on the benefits that could be yours.

Wow! This is so, so, good! I think you answered correctly and gentlemanly. So much truth in here, Ben! I am feasting.

Watchtower08, perhaps you are not aware because you are relatively new to CF, but this is not the place to debate this topic. There are plenty of places on CF where you may debate this, but this forum is not one of them.

This is the WoF forum. This forum is for WoF adherents to fellowship together, a "safe haven" to discuss our beliefs, and not to be chastised for them. Therefore, you are in violation of the rules by posting in this forum as you are very clearly not WoF.

A word to the wise is sufficient.

Well said, P. Thank you very much for reigning it in.

What about KingZ prorob, he clearly put down and judged wt08, and actually started the debate.

This is a good reason why the body of Christ is divided

We are all one in HIM!!!!

True, so true. And know we love wt!!! Very, very much! He is a precious brother with so much word in him and so much to offer. However, if he is not on the same page we are in a specific topic in our place of fellowship we are able to ask him to please refrain offering those thoughts here. They are contrary to the Word! This is a place he can grow in knowledge if his heart is not hardened.

The WoF forum is the wrong place to post what watchtower08 posted. Obviously watchtower08 is entitled to his opinions and beliefs, but this forum is not the correct place to voice them since he is not a WoF adherent.

It would be akin to you walking into my home off the street, not having any idea who I am, and proceeding to tell me why the way I'm raising my children is incorrect. You certainly would not expect to receive a warm welcome I hope. Much the same thing is true here. If you are not WoF, then you are a guest in our "home" while you are on this forum.

Amen.


On a personal not to you,P, I wasn't aware you're not a moderator anymore. I'm sad about that, but I am quite sure you are being led of the LORD.

 

[CindyisHis]

Having faith is the only way we can be blessed and the only way we can please God. So yes, we are blessed in abundance.

Thanks for realizing that you were inappropriate in your posting in the faith area. I hope you realize the Word of God is true and that God wants you to have a home and have good things to enjoy.

A man (or woman) who is willing to receive correction will go far.

Hats off to wt!

We do love you, brother, and we do recognize we are one body in Christ.


And we can always agree to disagree if you see things differently. You are still welcome here, warmly welcomed.

 

[10ringshooter]

I just read all 19 pages of posts in this thread, and donnabob hit the nail on the head on where I stand with the prosperity message. Let me say I went to a WOF church for almost 20 years, with a pastor who you would all know if I named his name. I have heard this message for a long time, and God has blessed me with a measure of prosperity. I am not posting this to debate the prosperity message, and whether it is valid, or invalid. The Word says what is says about this, and it is God's view for prosperity, for us. I do have a perception problem right now. That is with the excesses in things and possessions I have seen with some ministers in the WOF movement. I am becoming one who has a problem with prosperity, when minstries and churches are claiming that their bottom line is affected by the downturn in the economy, but the excesses are still there. Church employees are affected by layoffs, and economic pressures, but the excesses are still there. The Midas Touch probably covers this well, and I will be reading this very soon. I was one who was affected by employment changes as a part time employee of the that church I went to, so I really do have a bias towards this. Is The Lord really Jehovah, as His Word says He is, or not? I do not ask this because I am questioning this. I pose the question because some in the WOF circles are looking at the checkbook balance/the bottom line, and not the Provider, or excercising faith in His Word. I posted enough.Sorry if I ruffle a few feathers. I mean no harm. I am just disgruntled.

 

[Jedi.Kep]

"My intentions weren't to start a debate, I just wanted to give you guys insight into why I personally have a problem with the prosperity teaching message, making it personal instead of general. "

Here's my problem with what was said. God is a personal God. EVERYTHING he did was personal. If I was the only person on this planet, God would have sent Jesus to die for ME. God loved ME enough to send Jesus. To say that it applies generally and not personally has to be one of the biggest errors in the Body of Christ today.

 

[Big Drew]

I totally believe that as Christians, we have authority from God. I believe that God wants us to prosper and to "have an abundant life", as Christ said it. I just believe that it doesn't mean it's ok for us to use wealth for our own comforts and pleasures only. One can be richly blessed in material things but deeply spiritually dry at the same time.

I believe there should be moderation, and that God has called some of us to be rich or really blessed physically, BUT that you use that wealth to bless others and advance the Kingdom. If I was rich, I personally think it'd be bad for me to, say, buy a big house and an expensive car. But that's just me.

I believe God wants us to be "rich" in the fruits of the Holy Spirit our lives and actions bear. To be rich in the Holy Spirit and God's blessings. But that being rich in the spiritual things doesn't always have to mean too materialistically. When we use the wealth God blesses us with to accumulate for ourselves too many things we don't need, it takes the focus off of Christ and others and puts that focus on us; it is selfish, and not humble. God says not to accumulate for ourselves treasures on Earth, but treasures in Heaven. And we are to help the ones less fortunate than ourselves, Christian and not Christian.

So, yes, I do believe that God wants us to prosper; but that it doesn't mean JUST materialistically. Of course I feel that God wants to bless me with a moderate income and good-enough place to live. But I shall be satisfied with just that. I believe that by "rich" and "abundant", God mostly meant SPIRITUALLY, emotionally, psychologically, etc. I can live in a little house or cabin with not much but enough, emotionally and psychologically healed, along with plenty of good fruit of the Spirit, and more to bless others with; that is an example of being richly blessed and prosperous, to me!

You are absolutely right...I was visiting a church for a couple of months where every sermon had to do with being blessed...and that blessed meant materialistically...the pastor talked about how someone gave him a motorcycle, how his son had a check in the mail for just enough money to buy the guitar he wanted, how God gave him this big house...just all of these things...that didn't set right with me...it seems contradictory to me that the love of money is the root of all evil but God wants us to be rich...yes, God wants us to be rich, but in the ways you were describing...spiritually and emotionally...I'm not saying that we should be poor in the material sense...but some of us are less fortunate than others in that department...we should not let money become our god...and that's what happened with a lot of people that follow this prosperity gospel.

 

[luchsgud]

lol. I've only read the 1st page of this post, sorry. Nothing wrong with the prosperity doctrine except when prosperity becomes your God.

Prosperity is God supplying your need, and he often supplies more than you need.

Don't let your prosperity become a judge for your brother's lack of it. If you're so proud of your 5 bedroom/3 bathroom home that you feel sorry for your brother because he doesn't have one...give it to him.

Now prosperity that is based on the law [and most of it is] is teaching law, so one might ask, "Having being saved by grace are you now made perfect by the law?" and actually have a valid argument.

How do I know I am prosperous?

I have a house and garden with fruit trees [just the way I dreamed it would be as a boy].

I have a wife and two sons [just the way I dreamed it would be as a boy].

I have two cars [one is loaned to my son just now].

I have a job [that I thoroughly enjoy, even though it means getting up 4am every, yes, every morning].

But mostly I have Jesus and he has me, and because you have Jesus and he has you, I have you too.

Man I'm looking forward to meeting you all in glory. See you there.

 

[luchsgud]

"My intentions weren't to start a debate, I just wanted to give you guys insight into why I personally have a problem with the prosperity teaching message, making it personal instead of general. "

Here's my problem with what was said. God is a personal God. EVERYTHING he did was personal. If I was the only person on this planet, God would have sent Jesus to die for ME. God loved ME enough to send Jesus. To say that it applies generally and not personally has to be one of the biggest errors in the Body of Christ today.

I have a problem with this "If I was the only person on the planet" thing. There isn't a verse in the Bible that supports it. Adam and Eve were the only people on the planet yet God didn't do it for them, he waited for the perfect moment so you could be included.

 

[Faith In The Word]

I used to have problems with it myself. It's easy to distort the teachings and tell people that it's selfish and all about getting stuff for yourself. But we know that this is not the case.

Kenneth Copeland teaches that the reason God wants us to prosper is so that we can help other people. So we can sow into other ministries and into the lives of those who aren't prospering.

This is the exact opposite of what opponents of WoF teachings say.

 

[CindyisHis]

This is true. Sadly, there are people approaching it selfishly, but we know serving self is ungodly. We want to please the Lord in everything, and we do that by keeping His Word, and faith. Faith pleases God, and He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him. Heb. 11:6

Giving pleases Him. We admonished in Eph. 5:1 to be imitators of God. Since He is the biggest giver of all, we do well to do the same. In order for me to give, I have to have something TO give. The thing is, start where you are, and He will bring the increase. Seed sown always produces. God made it work that way. It's exciting to be a part of what He is doing, to give to others. And to think, my giving produces thanksgiving to God.

We must remember, prosperity covers far more than finances. We all know people that have money, but are spiritually impoverished, or physically sick, or having marital problems. Prosperity encompasses more than money. It's wholeness in every way. Shalom.

 

[HEisGoodalways]

This is true. Sadly, there are people approaching it selfishly, but we know serving self is ungodly. We want to please the Lord in everything, and we do that by keeping His Word, and faith. Faith pleases God, and He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him. Heb. 11:6

Giving pleases Him. We admonished in Eph. 5:1 to be imitators of God. Since He is the biggest giver of all, we do well to do the same. In order for me to give, I have to have something TO give. The thing is, start where you are, and He will bring the increase. Seed sown always produces. God made it work that way. It's exciting to be a part of what He is doing, to give to others. And to think, my giving produces thanksgiving to God.

We must remember, prosperity covers far more than finances. We all know people that have money, but are spiritually impoverished, or physically sick, or having marital problems. Prosperity encompasses more than money. It's wholeness in every way. Shalom.

Amen

 

[LinkH]

We should be thankful to God for all the blessings He gives us, including the materials blessings.

One of the reasons is because people hear preachers who go to extremes in their teaching, taking verses out of context, telling the audience that a verse doesn't really mean what it says, and some people who witness this get so disgusted with it, that they throw out the baby with the bathwater.

And there are also those who rightly reject extreme unbalanced teachings on Biblical grounds. They reject teachings that are based on an underlying assumption that Christians should desire the wealth of this world.

Here are some Biblical warnings against unbalanced teaching on the subject.

Colossians 3:5
Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:

I Timothy 6:10
5Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.
6But godliness with contentment is great gain.
7For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out.
8And having food and raiment let us be therewith content.
9But they that will be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and hurtful lusts, which drown men in destruction and perdition.
For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.
11But thou, O man of God, flee these things; and follow after righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, meekness.

If we want to have great gain, we need godliness and contentment. Our teaching should not imply that people should seek after becoming rich with treasure of this world, instead of seeking the kingdom.

 

[Howard Cneal]

I think it's because religion (e.g. calvinism for example) teaches that God isn't good and if you step out of line, He's gonna getcha! He hasn't 'got' me yet... not in a negative sense, anyway.

I also think certain televangelists, like Hinn, Copeland, Dollar, etc. give prosperity a bad name. God wants EVERYONE blessed, not just charlatans who prey on old ladies' social security checks. That ain't right...

 

[ai3theanswer]

Prosperity is the gospel, until we get the heaven we need money to spread the gospel, lots of money, its not cheap guys, so why against prosperity... God is a rich God. I don't listen to Benny Hinn but Kenneth Copeland and Creflo Dollar teach on tithing and offering and their churches are prospering big time. Rejoice for them... if you only see them as money grabbers... you really should see the amazing work they are doing for the kingdom or God. I am not saying you have to agree with every single thing they say, they are still human. But the millions if not billions of dollars they give away to spread the gospel is awesome all to the glory of Jesus!
Its not holy to be poor! God needs us rich, we are all He has to spread the good news. Folks the wealth transfer is coming... that means billions even trillions of dollars... so expand your thinking.

 

[CindyisHis]

Prosperity is the gospel, until we get the heaven we need money to spread the gospel, lots of money, its not cheap guys, so why against prosperity... God is a rich God. I don't listen to Benny Hinn but Kenneth Copeland and Creflo Dollar teach on tithing and offering and their churches are prospering big time. Rejoice for them... if you only see them as money grabbers... you really should see the amazing work they are doing for the kingdom or God. I am not saying you have to agree with every single thing they say, they are still human. But the millions if not billions of dollars they give away to spread the gospel is awesome all to the glory of Jesus!
Its not holy to be poor! God needs us rich, we are all He has to spread the good news. Folks the wealth transfer is coming... that means billions even trillions of dollars... so expand your thinking.

Amen!

 

[Faith In The Word]

Amen!

 

[CindyisHis]

I also think certain televangelists, like Hinn, Copeland, Dollar, etc. give prosperity a bad name. God wants EVERYONE blessed, not just charlatans who prey on old ladies' social security checks. That ain't right...

This IS what Copeland teaches - that God wants EVERYONE blessed. He doesn't want anyone to give into the ministry the Lord has called him to unless you WANT to give and the Lord directs you to. Many a time I've heard him say to keep your money if you think that way. He DOESN'T WANT IT!

It's the joyful giver who gives out of love that is blessed. And I am so blessed to partner with KCM. I've received manifold times more in return. All I can say is the Copelands are a blessing!

 

[Faith In The Word]

This IS what Copeland teaches - that God wants EVERYONE blessed. He doesn't want anyone to give into the ministry the Lord has called him to unless you WANT to give and the Lord directs you to. Many a time I've heard him say to keep your money if you think that way. He DOESN'T WANT IT!

It's the joyful giver who gives out of love that is blessed. And I am so blessed to partner with KCM. I've received manifold times more in return. All I can say is the Copelands are a blessing!

I couldn't agree more! God has directed me to partner with Kenneth Copeland, and I am very happy to do so. What I like about KCM is that they don't solicit for money, unlike some ministries that you see who always seem to be asking for money.

 

[CindyisHis]

I couldn't agree more! God has directed me to partner with Kenneth Copeland, and I am very happy to do so. What I like about KCM is that they don't solicit for money, unlike some ministries that you see who always seem to be asking for money.

I like that too. When I hear someone solicit for money I turn them off. God will provide. We should never look to people to meet our needs, and that includes ministries. They too should look to God alone. Copeland is an example to me of doing the will of God and trusting the Lord. He does what God tells him to do. Do you know K. Copeland is giving things away quite frequently? Yes, free of charge to anyone who asks. Instead of asking for money, he's busy GIVING! I have numerous materials in my house that came free of charge. I have received a phone call when hurricanes were headed our way. I listened to a most encouraging message on the phone! And because he doesn't toot his own horn, how do we know how many cars, or large gifts he has given? We ought not be too quick to judge. Our judgment may be off without all the evidence. God knows everything. And He will reveal to our spirits, by His Spirit, what is truth and what is not. That's what we need to concern ourselves with.