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Why do people hate ICE...

Hans Blaster

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Basically there are two main positions on Immigration law. Those who want safety and secuirty of borders but also law and order in society. Then there are the radical Marxist ideologues who want open borders and defund the police as they believe there should be no borders and law and order is oppression.
Oh come on. I've been to your country and its border and there were no guards there at all. Just unending salty water surrounding your island. Not a guard or fence in sight.

Reading ahead, you live in a weird ideological world. I have no idea what sorts of propaganda you are ingesting. Let's drop in a few comments...
They oppose government power to enforce laws and want a free for all in the name of a DEI utopia. Pie in the sky stuff.
Or as it was when I was a kid, soft drink ads ("I'd like to buy the world a coke" and "I'm a Pepper") and cheezy Superbowl halftime shows.
Its often decends into violence because if we look at all the groups who have this ideology they end up using terror to achieve the destruction of the percieved oppressors.
LOL. We could look at the dystopian chaos of today's protests (sorry there wasn't any), or we could look at the 200 year (probably longer) history of anti-immigrant violence in my country (the one we are talking about, rather than your country).

ICE is seen as an arm of the oppressor Trump who is a Nazi and fascists that must be stopped. Just applying the normal law enforcement that any rational society would apply to keep their borders safe is deemed as oppression and therefore this must be met with terror.
ICE doesn't act like normal police. They dress like Proud Boys on their way to the Capitol. They show up in moving vans like Patriot Front. Whether their use of brutality is like normal police, I leave to your evaluation.
Its more or less the same ideology as Islamists. Except rather than a Caliphate and Sharia law or bringing about Allahs rule. The Marxists ideologues want a Socialist utopia of some sort where all outcomes are equal. BUt both percieve the world as there being oppressors and infidels that must be stopped with violence and terror.

They see the world as oppressors and victims so every action against the percieved oppressed which includes terrorist groups and harden criminals and organisations is seen as oppression and must be met with terror.

They have the perfect army in that many are already criminals, gangs, organised crime and terror groups that are utilising the deluded western ideologues who fall for all this ideological thinking. The two have some weird cojoining like we see with groups like Queers for Palestine and Hamas. Its a strange phenomena.
This is an incredibly weird impression of the opposition to ICE operations. Where do you get these notions?
But their common hate for all things western, whites, Jews and Christians unites them.
That must explain why Jewish groups, Christian clergy, and loads of white people have been regularly seen at anti-ICE protests.
 
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ViaCrucis

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130 of those 170 were arrested for obstructing or assault. Not for being suspected illegals.

I.e. being there, dissenting, disagreeing.

413037DDN4L._AC_.jpg



-CryptoLutheran
 
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stevevw

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Oh come on. I've been to your country and its border and there were no guards there at all. Just unending salty water surrounding your island. Not a guard or fence in sight.
Two obvious things you overlooked. One Australia's land mass does not border another nation. Anyone who tries to come will have to navigate dangerous seas. That's a sort of barrier itself. But we also have very good coast surveillance.

Two unlike the US we had a strong conservative government implement tough border security by stopping any boats coming in and either returning them or relocating them to other nations in the areas for processing. This actually stopped the illegal trade and deterred the illegal trade.

When the opposition Party got in which would be the equivelant of the Dems they kept the same policy unlike in the US where they are fighting the governments policies. This has maintain safe and secure borders for the most part for over a decade now.

Australia has a generous immigration policy for those who come legally. We are actually a nation of immigrants. But you have to have controlled borders and immigration nowadays with all the crime and terror but also economically.
Reading ahead, you live in a weird ideological world. I have no idea what sorts of propaganda you are ingesting. Let's drop in a few comments...

Or as it was when I was a kid, soft drink ads ("I'd like to buy the world a coke" and "I'm a Pepper") and cheezy Superbowl halftime shows.
What on earth are you going on about lol. It sounds like you are creating this world lol.
LOL. We could look at the dystopian chaos of today's protests (sorry there wasn't any), or we could look at the 200 year (probably longer) history of anti-immigrant violence in my country (the one we are talking about, rather than your country).
I really don't know what your point is. You started off on the wrong foot above with the assumptions made about my country. So maybe thats go something to do with it.
ICE doesn't act like normal police. They dress like Proud Boys on their way to the Capitol. They show up in moving vans like Patriot Front. Whether their use of brutality is like normal police, I leave to your evaluation.
Hum all I can say is that policing depends on the situation. Though we don't have ICE agents we do have specialised response agents who are trained in terror combating. Which is like a war zone sometimes. So there are different levels of response.

What is happening in the US is happening in Europe and even Britain. I don't know what the answer is.

I can understand that police abuse can happen and the fear of some who believe that cracking down on violence or crime is like a dictator State.

But I also understand that if the violence and crime is getting out of hand and to a point where its actually a public safety issue then the use of tougher policing is necessary.

Its like anything. If you allow things to get out of hand and control then any stepping in can seem like controlling itself. But it gets to that point when people don't put in those measures to begin with and actually help create the situation with poor management and lack of action where needed.
This is an incredibly weird impression of the opposition to ICE operations. Where do you get these notions?
Actually its more weird that you don't see this. The first obvious similarity is the willingness to use violence and terror. Both are using violence and terror for their cause.

Why are Antifa shooting up ICE buildings and agents. Why are other individuals rising up at the moment and shooting to ICE. Why are others attacking them with violence.

Why is there a general rise in violence. Its still a continuation of the same mentality before the election for these radicals. Is violence and murder a legitimised way to deal with that which people disagree.

Wednesday’s shooting is just the latest in a series of attacks that appear to target ICE facilities and officers since the agency ramped up controversial mass arrests and deportations under Trump.

According to a statement earlier this week from the Department of Homeland Security (DHS), ICE officials are experiencing “a more than 1,000 percent increase in assaults”. This includes: vehicles being used as weapons, driving towards ICE officials, and online “doxing” campaigns (revealing someone’s personal details and address) against ICE officials and their families.


With this peddling of hate and violence how long before agents or police are gunned down. Or their families attacked. Is that ok.
That must explain why Jewish groups, Christian clergy, and loads of white people have been regularly seen at anti-ICE protests.
Jewish groups. They have been the most targeted thanks to this radical mentality that violence is ok to use against opponents. Its very Marxist and you can't see this. This was the basic idea. That in rising up against the oppressors violence was a legitimate means.

For the past 10 years or longer western nations have been cultivating such ideas. This is now the end result of it spilling into the streets. Its happening all over the world. NOt just in the Islamist nations but western nations. And you can't see it.

No Jews, and Christians should be very afraid of what is coming.

A New Era of Conflict and Violence
Globally, the absolute number of war deaths has been declining since 1946. And yet, conflict and violence are currently on the rise, with many conflicts today waged between non-state actors such as political militias, criminal, and international terrorist groups. Unresolved regional tensions, a breakdown in the rule of law, absent or co-opted state institutions, illicit economic gain, and the scarcity of resources exacerbated by climate change, have become dominant drivers of conflict.


In 2016, more countries experienced violent conflict than at any point in almost 30 years.

I'd say its got much, much worse since 2016.
 
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camille70

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130 of those 170 were arrested for obstructing or assault. Not for being suspected illegals.

It sounds like 50 of those arrested were released without charges.

There was a recent court case ordering agents to use body cams. I'm highly in favor of that.

But basically Americans are rarely being detained as illegals. Even 20 of the Americans picked up were kids who were with illegal parents. Which is a LEGITIMATE AND LEGAL thing to do.

So all total, there have been 20 American adults picked up in ICE raids on illegals. Pretty miniscule. And under the circumstances understandable.

That's being used as a pretext.
The next paragraph:

These cases have often wilted under scrutiny. In nearly 50 instances that we have identified so far, charges have never been filed or the cases were dismissed. Our count found a handful of citizens have pleaded guilty, mostly to misdemeanors.
 
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DaisyDay

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The picture of an 8-year-old handcuffed by ICE is fake and was created using artificial intelligence
. It was generated by a user of Grok, an AI creation tool.
Fact-checkers identified the following details indicating the image was AI-generated:
  • The girl's left shoulder and the ICE agent's ear appear distorted.
  • The fabric textures and background details are overly stylized or inconsistent.
  • The image was not published by any reputable news outlet.
The user who created the image told the fact-checking site Snopes that their prompt was: "generate an image of Police ICE agents aggressively dragging Latino children crying out of a 2nd grade classroom".
Source: Google
This is incorrect. The fake picture isn't this one (it's this one), but this one isn't what it says it is.


Video shows 27-year-old detained by police, not child arrested by ICE

This video was taken on 1 April and is actually of a 27-year-old woman being detained for jaywalking - an offence of illegally crossing a road, according to Clark County Sheriff’s Office in Washington state.

Officers spotted the woman running across a busy junction and mistakenly thought she was a child, they said in a Facebook post.

The woman was briefly detained after she provided a name which did not return any records, the sheriff said. She was released with a verbal warning after her identity was confirmed.

...US media have reported multiple cases of children being detained by federal law enforcement since the beginning of Trump’s latest crackdown on illegal immigration.​

The fog of war?
 
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rjs330

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That's being used as a pretext.
The next paragraph:

These cases have often wilted under scrutiny. In nearly 50 instances that we have identified so far, charges have never been filed or the cases were dismissed. Our count found a handful of citizens have pleaded guilty, mostly to misdemeanors.
Yes, I left nothing out. 80 of them were not dismissed. 50 were.

But the whole point was about Americans being picked up as possible illegals. And it turns out it is a VERY rare circumstance. And its an understandable one when a raid occurs. If you are hanging round illegals, you'll probably get picked up with them. It will get sorted out and you'll go home.

If you as an American get arrested for obstructing or assault thats completely different than being picked up as an illegal.

ICE needs to do a MUCH better job of substantiating their cases. I seriously doubt 50 out of 130 were illegitimate arrests. I bet ICE totally failed to document their cases properly. They need body cams and they need better documentation. At quite frankly its patently stupid to arrest someone and then not charge them.

LE often detains someone to determine if they have committed a crime. Detaining is not an arrest. Is this article referring to detention as arrest? Were all 50 of those people booked and later released? Much information us missing here and a lot of assumptions are being made based upon people's anti-ICE bias.

I prefer to have the actual facts surrounding each case before making a judgement call.
 
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camille70

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Yes, I left nothing out. 80 of them were not dismissed. 50 were.

But the whole point was about Americans being picked up as possible illegals. And it turns out it is a VERY rare circumstance. And its an understandable one when a raid occurs. If you are hanging round illegals, you'll probably get picked up with them. It will get sorted out and you'll go home.

If you as an American get arrested for obstructing or assault thats completely different than being picked up as an illegal.

ICE needs to do a MUCH better job of substantiating their cases. I seriously doubt 50 out of 130 were illegitimate arrests. I bet ICE totally failed to document their cases properly. They need body cams and they need better documentation. At quite frankly its patently stupid to arrest someone and then not charge them.

LE often detains someone to determine if they have committed a crime. Detaining is not an arrest. Is this article referring to detention as arrest? Were all 50 of those people booked and later released? Much information us missing here and a lot of assumptions are being made based upon people's anti-ICE bias.

I prefer to have the actual facts surrounding each case before making a judgement call.

It's happened across several administrations but since the current one doesn't believe immigrants have due process rights, Americans are in much more danger because of willfull indifference. If someone isn’t entitled to due process, they aren't given an opportunity to prove they are citizens and belong here.


Spanning both Obama administrations, an NPR investigation found, immigration authorities asked local authorities to detain about 700 Americans. Meanwhile, a U.S. Government Accountability Office report found that immigration authorities asked to hold roughly 600 likely citizens during Trump’s first term. The GAO also found that Trump actually deported about 70 likely citizens.

The GAO report did not get into any individual cases. But lawsuits brought against federal immigration agencies detail dozens of cases where plaintiffs received a settlement.

When local deputies in Pierce County, Washington, arrested Carlos Rios on suspicion of drunken driving in 2019, not even the fact that he had his U.S. passport could convince the deputies — or the ICE agents who took him into federal custody — that he was a citizen.

Rios, who immigrated from Mexico in the 1980s and became a citizen in 2000, often carried his passport with him in case he picked up a welding job on a Coast Guard ship or a commercial fishing job that took him into international waters. But no one listened to him when Rios insisted repeatedly that he was a citizen and begged Pierce County jail officials and ICE officers to check his bag. Rios ended up being held for a week. ICE did not comment on the case.

Rios received a $125,000 settlement but is still haunted by his time in detention.
 
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rjs330

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But no one listened to him when Rios insisted repeatedly that he was a citizen and begged Pierce County jail officials and ICE officers to check his bag. Rios ended up being held for a week. ICE did not comment on the case.

Rios received a $125,000 settlement but is still haunted by his time in detention.
Im glad he got money for it. To me it is inexcusable to hold a US citizen for days. Especially if he has a US passport. I am a naturalized citizen and had to prove I was one to get my passport. There is NO EXCUSE for holding a citizen with a passport that long. Being picked up isnt the problem. Being held for days is. I have my citizenship papers at home. I could produce it in a matter of hours if I had to have someone go get it for me. I can see it taking a day if you rounded up with a bunch of illegals claiming to be citizens. It may take a little time to work through it.
 
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Hans Blaster

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Two obvious things you overlooked. One Australia's land mass does not border another nation. Anyone who tries to come will have to navigate dangerous seas. That's a sort of barrier itself. But we also have very good coast surveillance.
I literally told you that I knew you lived on an island and that's why you are clueless regarding "borders".
Two unlike the US we had a strong conservative government implement tough border security by stopping any boats coming in and either returning them or relocating them to other nations in the areas for processing. This actually stopped the illegal trade and deterred the illegal trade.

When the opposition Party got in which would be the equivelant of the Dems they kept the same policy unlike in the US where they are fighting the governments policies. This has maintain safe and secure borders for the most part for over a decade now.

Australia has a generous immigration policy for those who come legally. We are actually a nation of immigrants. But you have to have controlled borders and immigration nowadays with all the crime and terror but also economically.
Once the Tasmanians were dealt with.
What on earth are you going on about lol. It sounds like you are creating this world lol.
This is the problem, Steve. You want to play around in American politics and you don't understand basic cultural references that would be known to *anyone* your age in my country. Let me summarize it for you -- the goals of the DEI you decry were the subjects of actual advertising campaigns from soft drink companies (Coke-a-Cola, Dr. Pepper) in the 1970s and 80s. Somehow it has become "bad". (I wonder why...)
I really don't know what your point is. You started off on the wrong foot above with the assumptions made about my country. So maybe thats go something to do with it.
As I stated, I know it is an island. You wrote of anti-ICE violence and I pointed out that the streets were filled with non-violent protesters. In contrast group violence against immigrants (not immigration officers) has been a fixture of American culture for 2 centuries. I'm not sure how this is hard to comprehend. Perhaps it is that your assumptions on this thread are completely disconnected from reality.
Hum all I can say is that policing depends on the situation. Though we don't have ICE agents we do have specialised response agents who are trained in terror combating. Which is like a war zone sometimes. So there are different levels of response.
Places where unauthorized and deportable immigrants are located are not war zones, nor are they terrorists.
What is happening in the US is happening in Europe and even Britain. I don't know what the answer is.
The answer is for ICE to stop being so violent.
I can understand that police abuse can happen and the fear of some who believe that cracking down on violence or crime is like a dictator State.

But I also understand that if the violence and crime is getting out of hand and to a point where its actually a public safety issue then the use of tougher policing is necessary.
It is ICE that is committing the violence.
Its like anything. If you allow things to get out of hand and control then any stepping in can seem like controlling itself. But it gets to that point when people don't put in those measures to begin with and actually help create the situation with poor management and lack of action where needed.
It is ICE that is committing the violence.
Actually its more weird that you don't see this. The first obvious similarity is the willingness to use violence and terror. Both are using violence and terror for their cause.
It is ICE that is committing the violence.

Why are Antifa shooting up ICE buildings and agents. Why are other individuals rising up at the moment and shooting to ICE. Why are others attacking them with violence.
It is ICE that is committing the violence. "Antifa" hasn't attacked anyone.
Why is there a general rise in violence. Its still a continuation of the same mentality before the election for these radicals. Is violence and murder a legitimised way to deal with that which people disagree.
It is ICE that is committing the violence.
Wednesday’s shooting is just the latest in a series of attacks that appear to target ICE facilities and officers since the agency ramped up controversial mass arrests and deportations under Trump.

According to a statement earlier this week from the Department of Homeland Security (DHS), ICE officials are experiencing “a more than 1,000 percent increase in assaults”. This includes: vehicles being used as weapons, driving towards ICE officials, and online “doxing” campaigns (revealing someone’s personal details and address) against ICE officials and their families.
We're talking about America, Steve. All nuts are gun nuts.
Paxton is a thug.
With this peddling of hate and violence how long before agents or police are gunned down. Or their families attacked. Is that ok.

Jewish groups. They have been the most targeted thanks to this radical mentality that violence is ok to use against opponents. Its very Marxist and you can't see this. This was the basic idea. That in rising up against the oppressors violence was a legitimate means.

For the past 10 years or longer western nations have been cultivating such ideas. This is now the end result of it spilling into the streets. Its happening all over the world. NOt just in the Islamist nations but western nations. And you can't see it.
You don't actually read what I write, do you? Just typing random thoughts after what I wrote, eh?
No Jews, and Christians should be very afraid of what is coming.
What is "coming" Steve?
A New Era of Conflict and Violence
Globally, the absolute number of war deaths has been declining since 1946. And yet, conflict and violence are currently on the rise, with many conflicts today waged between non-state actors such as political militias, criminal, and international terrorist groups. Unresolved regional tensions, a breakdown in the rule of law, absent or co-opted state institutions, illicit economic gain, and the scarcity of resources exacerbated by climate change, have become dominant drivers of conflict.


In 2016, more countries experienced violent conflict than at any point in almost 30 years.

I'd say its got much, much worse since 2016.
Who trusts the UN?
 
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