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Why do people blame calvinists ?

Butch5

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Of course Jesus has a spirit or breath in Him. Every man does. It is the breath or spirit of life. Saying Jesus has a spirit in Him is different than saying Jesus is a spirit. But again, the Holy Spirit is not Jesus. The spirit of Christ is the spirit from Christ which is the Holy Spirit. What did He say to the apostles?

26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me: (Jn. 15:26 KJV)

Jesus told the apostles that He would send the Spirit to them. Paul goes on to say that God gives the spirit to all believers.
 
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Butch5

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This tells me what the Bible means by celestial. It doesn't tell me how you understand the word. That you won't simply say what it means to you actually speaks volumes.
 
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chad kincham

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My position on John 6:44 is that it applied to those people in Jesus' day. It's not a statement to all mankind. No one can come to Jesus unless He is on earth.

You seem to deny the spiritual.

We do come to Jesus. We as believers sit in heaven with Jesus. Ephesians 2:6

That’s because the new covenant is a marriage, and as the bride of Christ, we become as one with Jesus in marriage, and it’s a spiritual union. Romans 7:4

This is how we become the body of Christ - the two cleave together and become as one in marriage.

So we do come to Jesus while He is bodily in heaven at the Father’s right hand - spiritually- our spirit and His.

You mentioned a celestial body, that’s a Mormon term, isn’t it?
 
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chad kincham

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Your comments are pointing to the denial that Jesus is the second person in the Godhead, because as God, He IS an eternal spirit, and when He incarnated in a human body, His spirit didn’t go on vacation - it indwelled the mortal flesh body.
 
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RickReads

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Your comments are pointing to the denial that Jesus is the second person in the Godhead, because as God, He IS an eternal spirit, and when He incarnated in a human body, His spirit didn’t go on vacation - it indwelled the mortal flesh body.

I thought that as well but when I had a look at his other posts that doesn`t seem to be the case. He seems to have a problem believing that Jesus was speaking to Gentiles. He insists Jesus was only talking to the Jews who were there listening to Him. He appears to have some issue with Holy Spirit verses as well. I`m having a hard time figuring out where he gets his beliefs from.
 
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Mark Quayle

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When James Arminius (Arminianism) believes the same thing with total depravity, free will and predestination ?
What Jacobus (aka Jacob aka James) Arminius believed and taught is not precisely the same thing as what became Arminianism, but it allowed for it and produced it.
There it is: Arminius himself may not have said it, but he provided for it to be said, as:
"Although human nature was seriously affected by the fall, man has not been left in a state of total spiritual helplessness. God graciously enables every sinner to repent and believe, but He does not interfere with man's freedom. Each sinner possesses a free will, and his eternal destiny depends on how he uses it. Man's freedom consists of his ability to choose good over evil in spiritual matters; his will is not enslaved to his sinful nature. The sinner has the power to either cooperate with God's Spirit and be regenerated or resist God's grace and perish. The lost sinner needs the Spirit's assistance, but he does not have to be regenerated by the Spirit before he can believe, for faith is man's act and precedes the new birth. Faith is the sinner's gift to God; it is man's contribution to salvation." --In which, a person's eternal destiny hinges on his choice and not God's. "Faith is the sinner's gift to God; it is man's contribution to salvation." --either Arminius agrees with this abomination, or Arminianism contradicts Arminius.
Calvinism and Arminianism comparison
 
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mlepfitjw

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@Jesus is YHWH Calvinism is just a belief system.

And people can be dogmatic about it, almost like the KKK regime.

Though there are always cases of people on the extreme right, and extreme left.

Guess the only thing a human can do in this life, is make the best out of each and every situation by living with the spirit that resides in them due to their belief.

Being gone away from this site for over a month, I already know God got me in the position, that fighting over belief systems is just a manmade mess of differences.

And many people love to debate and bicker, God knows I use to love the feeling of dopamine thinking I put some one in their place... though grieved the spirit when realizing my wrongs.

So believe, and love while you can... it seems about all there really is to life...
 
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RickReads

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You got it right. Excellant post, thxs.
 
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chad kincham

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RickReads

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In Israel at the time of Jesus it was a custom for scholars to get together at the temple and debate the Torah. Jesus Himself is recorded to have participated at the age of 12 in Luke 2.

I think these ancient discussions got quite heated given the violent tendancies of the religeous leaders of that time.

I like to think that the tradition is the same among us in places like this. I might pen whip somebody in a forum such as this but I love all Christians who love the Lord. God knows my heart that this is so.
 
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chad kincham

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Jesus did come originally for the Jews only, and I believe it’s either Pauline dispies or mid Acts dispies that believe Jesus offered the kingdom only to the Jews, and offered plan B to the gentiles.

In reality Jesus offered the kingdom to both.
 
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mlepfitjw

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Thank you for sharing. Rick.

Imagine the look on the Pharisee that heard Jesus say that He would sit on the right hand of his Father, right? And he rent his clothes...

You are so right about back then in that day, of Israel... You know near the end of Jerusalem for the second time their was aborrent distractions, and stumbling blocks... There was so much going on back then considering the times and conditions and let alone God had sent his son into a war zone, all for the redemption of the whole world.

I believe that the traditions you speak of have carried through time, and will always be around forever.

Those who realize these aspects are open mind towards the ability of the Goodness of God, and are able to share the love that comes from God by the spirit which resides in them.
 
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RickReads

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Jesus did come originally for the Jews only, and I believe it’s either Pauline dispies or mid Acts dispies that believe Jesus offered the kingdom only to the Jews, and offered plan B to the gentiles.

In reality Jesus offered the kingdom to both.

I believe Israel fell when Steven was stoned. In Acts 10 we see a Gentile salvation apart from Israel for the first time. The conversion of Paul instituted the change to God`s program which was and is salvation without joining the nation of Israel.
 
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chad kincham

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Who is the Theophany of the Old Testament? That question would make a good thread.

I believe Jesus as God can traverse time, which is the fourth dimension, and that every time that God in form of a man appears in the OT, it’s Jesus.

He appeared to Moses face to face and talked to him as a man talks to a friend.

In Genesis 18:1 YHWH appears as one of three men, Abraham washes His feet.

In Genesis 19, YHWH on earth, rains down fire and brimstone from YHWH in heaven.

Etc.
 
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mlepfitjw

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Never heard of that before but that seems really interesting Chad. I have no problem with your belief.

I disagree with Jesus ever being in OT, because it was GODS WORD, that was in the OT, then the word later became flesh named Jesus, in the NT. ~ ~ ~ That is just my thoughts on that subject Chad.

Me saying Jesus Christ is God, doesn't save me.

I believe that faith through grace saves us.
 
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chad kincham

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I believe Israel fell when Steven was stoned. In Acts 10 we see a Gentile salvation apart from Israel for the first time. The conversion of Paul instituted the change to God`s program which was and is salvation without joining the nation of Israel.

I believe it was later, in Acts 13:

Act 13:45 But when the Jews saw the multitudes, they were filled with envy, and spake against those things which were spoken by Paul, contradicting and blaspheming.

Act 13:46 Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles.

Act 13:47 For so hath the Lord commanded us, saying,I have set thee to be a light of the Gentiles, that thou shouldest be for salvation unto the ends of the earth.
 
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Mark Quayle

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According to Christianity Today's "Christian History" it is said concerning Arminius, "It was his study of the Epistle to the Romans as an Amsterdam minister that set Jacob Arminius firmly against Calvinism. Faith, he believed, was the cause of election: "It is an eternal and gracious decree of God in Christ, by which he determines to justify and adopt believers, and to endow them with eternal life but to condemn unbelievers, and impenitent persons." "That teacher obtains my highest approbation who ascribes as much as possible to divine grace," he assured them, "provided he so pleads the cause of grace, as not to inflict an injury on the justice of God, and not to take away the free will of that which is evil."

Per Theopedia "The theology of Arminianism was not fully developed during Arminius' time, but was systematized after his death and formalized in the Five Articles of Remonstrance in 1610." https://www.theopedia.com/jacobus-arminius

Arminius seems to have changed his views over his lifetime. I would not be surprised to find his later works to disagree with his earlier publications in some ways. But certainly, by the time of the Five Articles of Remonstrance (after he had already died (1609)), Arminianism had migrated from agreeing with Calvinism to opposing Calvinism, in particular, concerning the matter of free will.
 
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