Short Timer said in post 4846:
Plus there's no mention of anyone or group of people escaping the trib at the end, or in the middle,
Note that while at the future point in time of Revelation 7:2-4, only the 144,000 male-virgins part of the church (Revelation 14:1,4) will be sealed for physical protection, all obedient people in the church will still be spiritually protected during the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24, no matter what happens to them physically (Romans 8:35-37). Also, before Revelation 7:2-4 happens, the 144,000, along with some others, will be physically protected so that they will survive the tribulation's 1st stage (in Revelation 6), while others will die and their souls will enter heaven (Revelation 7:9,14). It is near the end of this 1st stage that the 144,000 will be sealed (Revelation 7:3-4) for physical protection before the unsealing of the 7th seal (Revelation 8:1), out of which will come the tribulation's 7 trumpets (Revelation 8:1-2). The first 6 trumpets' events, up to Revelation 9:19, will be the tribulation's 2nd stage. The seal which the 144,000 will receive (which will be different from and in addition to the seal of the Holy Spirit himself which they and all others in the church receive: Ephesians 1:13) will physically protect them during this 2nd stage (Revelation 9:4).
After the 2nd stage, the 144,000 male-virgins part of the church will be caught up in their mortal bodies as the "man child" to God's throne in heaven (Revelation 12:5, Revelation 14:4-5, Textus Receptus), like how Enoch and Elijah were caught up in their mortal bodies to heaven (Hebrews 11:5; 2 Kings 2:1). Right after the 144,000 are caught up, the tribulation's 3rd stage, the literal 3.5-year worldwide reign of the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of Revelation's "beast") will begin (Revelation 12:5-6). This time period is shown from 4 different angles in Revelation chapters 11 to 14 (Revelation 11:2b-3, Revelation 12:6,14, Revelation 13:5-18, Revelation 14:9-13).
The 144,000 will remain in heaven before God's throne (Revelation 14:5, Textus Receptus) during the time of the Antichrist's reign (Revelation 14:9-13, Revelation 13:5-18), while 2 other parts of the church will still be on the earth: the figurative "woman" who represents those in the church who will flee into prepared wilderness places and be physically protected (Revelation 12:6,14-16); and the remnant of her seed (Revelation 12:17), those in the church who will remain in the cities and not be physically protected, but will be persecuted in every nation, imprisoned, and beheaded by the Antichrist (Revelation 13:7-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 20:4-6, Matthew 24:9-13).
After the Antichrist's reign is declared legally over at the sounding of the 7th trumpet (Revelation 11:15), the 7 plagues of the 7 vials of God's wrath will come out of the 7th trumpet's heavenly-temple opening (Revelation 11:19, Revelation 15:5 to 16:1). These vials (Revelation 16) will be the tribulation's 4th and final stage. Because the church isn't appointed to God's wrath (1 Thessalonians 5:9), none of these vials will be directed at those in the church who will still be alive on the earth at that time, still waiting for Jesus' coming as a thief (Revelation 16:15). Instead, they will go into protective chambers which they will have built for themselves on the earth (Isaiah 26:20), just as Noah and his family went into the protective ark which they had built for themselves on the earth (Genesis 7:7). So some in the church will survive the entire future tribulation on the earth. They are those who will still be "alive and remain" at Jesus' 2nd coming to be raptured (1 Thessalonians 4:15-17), immediately after the tribulation (Matthew 24:29-31; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8). These survivors will have experienced God's miraculous physical protection (Psalms 91) without having to have been part of the 144,000.
Short Timer said in post 4846:
Jesus said he had prevailed and overcome the world, but if we listen to ya'll,
the world and Satan is going to prevail and overcome the "Body of Christ".
Matthew 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
Note that this isn't contradicting that evil forces can prevail against the church physically. For just as Roman emperors and Satan were allowed to physically overcome believers in the 1st century AD (e.g. Revelation 2:10), so evil forces will physically overcome the church during the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24. For the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of Revelation's "beast") will prevail physically against believers (not in hiding) in every nation (Revelation 13:7-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 20:4, Matthew 24:9-13), and now there are no believers outside of the church (Ephesians 4:4-6).
Instead, Matthew 16:18 meant that the literal gates of Hades wouldn't prevail against the "rock" in Matthew 16:18, which is Jesus himself (Matthew 16:16b,18b), the rock/stone on whom the church/New Covenant Israel is built (Ephesians 2:20, Matthew 16:18b; 1 Peter 2:6), the rock/stone who was rejected and crucified (Romans 9:33, Acts 4:11; 1 Peter 2:4,8), the same rock/Christ who followed Old Covenant Israel/the church in the wilderness (1 Corinthians 10:4-5, cf. Acts 7:38), and the same rock/Christ revered by New Covenant Israel/the church (1 Peter 2:4-10).
That is, Matthew 16:18 was prophesying of when the literal gates of Hades wouldn't prevail against Jesus (Psalms 107:16), when, after his resurrection, he went down and liberated the souls of the dead Old Testament saints from Hades (1 Peter 4:6; 1 Peter 3:18c-19, Ephesians 4:8-9, Hebrews 11:13-16, Hebrews 12:22-24).
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Regarding the future tribulation, Daniel 12:7b shows that at Jesus' 2nd coming, he will come to a church which has been completely defeated physically by the Antichrist. For during the Antichrist's future, literal 3.5-year worldwide reign, he will be allowed to make war against the church and to overcome it physically in every nation (Revelation 13:5-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 20:4-6, Matthew 24:9-13). It is only when the Antichrist has completely broken all the physical power of the church that the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24 will end (Daniel 12:7b), and Jesus' 2nd coming will immediately occur, at which time he will physically resurrect and rapture (gather together) the church (Matthew 24:29-31; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8, Revelation 19:7 to 20:6). And at his 2nd coming, Jesus will tread the winepress of God's wrath alone (Isaiah 63:3, Revelation 19:15-21), and so he/God will get all the glory for defeating the power of evil on the earth (Deuteronomy 32:39-43). For he/God won't share this glory with the church (cf. Isaiah 42:8-14, Isaiah 26:18).
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Short Timer said in post 4848:
Jesus is not mentioned in the OT, however a "Messiah" is mentioned, one that comes "Only" to the "Jewish people", not the "Gentile Samaritans".
Isaiah 49:6 And he said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth.
Isaiah 42:6 I the LORD have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles . . .
Note that these verses foretold that Jesus' gospel of the New Covenant (Matthew 26:28; 1 Corinthians 15:1-4), made only with Israel (Jeremiah 31:31-34), would save both Jewish and Gentile believers (Acts 26:22-23, Luke 24:46-47). The New Covenant includes Gentile believers by grafting them into Israel (Romans 11:17,24, Ephesians 2:12,19, Galatians 3:29, John 10:16).
Isaiah 49:6b started to be fulfilled at Jesus' first coming (Luke 2:32, Acts 26:23) and his sending forth of his apostles to the Gentiles (Acts 13:47, Mark 16:15, Matthew 28:19-20, Acts 26:17-18, Acts 22:21).
Also, Paul quotes 4 Old Testament verses in Romans 15:9-12 that foretold the salvation of the Gentiles (2 Samuel 22:50/Psalms 18:49, Deuteronomy 32:43, Psalms 117:1, Isaiah 11:10). This is what he meant by the "mystery" in Romans 16:25-26 and Colossians 1:26 being "made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets" (Romans 16:26).
God chose
Peter the apostle to be the first one to take the gospel of salvation to the Gentiles (Acts 15:7, Acts 10:34-48), to make Gentile believers partakers of the Jews' spiritual things (Romans 15:27, John 4:22b), just as Paul sometimes preached the gospel to Jews (e.g. Acts 13:16-41).
This mystery (Ephesians 3:4) is also explained in Ephesians 3:6, which means that believing Gentiles become fellowheirs with believing Israelites, and of the same body as Israel, and partakers of God's promise in Christ made to Israel.
Short Timer said in post 4848:
Jesus is not mentioned in the OT . . .
Actually, Zechariah 6:11-12 and Zechariah 3:8-10 showed by type that the Christ, the Messiah, would be a high priest (Hebrews 6:20) named "Joshua", or "Jesus", "Jesus" being the Greek form of the Hebrew name "Joshua" (like how, for example, "Juan" is the Spanish form of the English name "John"). "The Branch" (Zechariah 6:12, Zechariah 3:8) is a title of the Christ (Isaiah 4:2-6, Jeremiah 33:14-17). And where it says "upon one stone shall be seven eyes" (Zechariah 3:9), this too is fulfilled by Jesus, the stone (1 Peter 2:7) who is at one point symbolically shown as having 7 "eyes" (Revelation 5:6). "I will remove the iniquity of that land in one day" (Zechariah 3:9) will be fulfilled at Jesus' 2nd coming (Isaiah 4:4-6). And Zechariah 3:10 refers to the time of the millennium (Micah 4:4), when the returned Jesus will be ruling the earth from Jerusalem (Micah 4:1-4).
Short Timer said in post 4848:
Israel was/is expecting a "Man prophet", like Moses, not "God in the flesh".
Do you mean that the Old Testament doesn't show the deity of Christ?
If so, note that this idea is mistaken, just as is another idea held by unbelieving Judaism: that nowhere does the Old Testament show the death of Christ for our sins and his rising physically from the dead on the 3rd day (Luke 24:46). Unbelieving Judaism makes these claims because it is unable to understand many of the Old Testament's teachings regarding the Messiah/Christ (2 Corinthians 3:14), just as before Christ came, no one could understand many of these teachings. For they were kept secret by God (Romans 16:25-26, Luke 18:34), and were first revealed to the apostles by Christ after his resurrection (Luke 24:44-47, Galatians 1:12), and then recorded in the New Testament.
Now Christians can know how perfectly the Old Testament shows the deity of Christ. Christ being uncreated, his having existed forever, from everlasting, is shown in Micah 5:2c (cf. John 1:1,14, John 8:58, Colossians 1:16-17). Christ being YHWH the Holy One, from everlasting, is shown in Habakkuk 1:12 (cf. Acts 3:14, Micah 5:2c). Christ being the human/divine Son of God due to his virgin birth is shown in Isaiah 7:14 (cf. Matthew 1:22-25, Luke 1:34-35). Christ being the mighty God is shown in Isaiah 9:6 (cf. Titus 2:13). Christ being YHWH the good shepherd is shown in Psalms 23:1 (cf. John 10:11, Mark 10:18). Christ being YHWH who will set his feet on the Mount of Olives at his return is shown in Zechariah 14:3-4 (cf. Acts 1:11-12). Christ being YHWH the Redeemer who is the first and last is shown in Isaiah 44:6 (cf. Revelation 2:8, Titus 2:13-14). Christ being YHWH the great I AM is shown in Exodus 3:14 (cf. John 8:58). Christ being one God with God the Father, equal in divinity to God the Father, is shown in Isaiah 45:5-6 and Isaiah 43:10b (cf. John 10:30, John 20:28, Philippians 2:6); for they show that YHWH is the only God, and that he has always been and forever will be the only God.
Similarly, Christians can know how perfectly the Old Testament foretold the death of Christ for our sins and his rising physically from the dead on the 3rd day (Acts 26:22-23; 1 Corinthians 15:1-5, Luke 24:44-47). His death for our sins was foretold in Isaiah 53 (cf. Acts 8:32-35; 1 Peter 2:24). His crucifixion experience was foretold in Psalms 22 (cf. Matthew 27:46,35). His not remaining dead was foretold in Psalms 16:10 (cf. Acts 2:31). His rising from the dead on the 3rd day was foretold in Hosea 6:2 (cf. 1 Corinthians 15:4, Luke 24:46, Colossians 2:12). That Christ's New Covenant gospel (Matthew 26:28) would go forth to save both Jews and Gentiles was foretold in Isaiah 49:6 and Isaiah 42:6 (cf. Acts 26:23b, Luke 24:47). For some other examples of how Jesus fulfilled Old Testament scriptures at his first coming: he fulfilled Deuteronomy 18:15,18,19 (cf. Acts 3:22-24, Luke 24:44), and Zechariah 9:9 (cf. Matthew 21:4-5), and Psalms 118:22 (cf. Acts 4:11), and Isaiah 9:1-2 (cf. Matthew 4:12-16), and Psalms 110:4 (cf. Hebrews 6:20).