Why do people believe in a Rapture?

[ivebeenshown]

Jesus judges the Righteous who return with him for "Rewards" at the second coming, but the "rest of the dead" (unsaved) stay dead until the GWT.

Lu 19:13 And he called his ten servants, and delivered them ten pounds, and said unto them, Occupy till I come.

Lu 19:15 And it came to pass, that when he was returned, having received the kingdom, then he commanded these servants to be called unto him, to whom he had given the money, that he might know how much every man had gained by trading.

16 Then came the first, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained ten pounds.

17 And he said unto him, Well, thou good servant: because thou hast been faithful in a very little, have thou authority over ten cities.

Re 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: .... and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Re 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

In the parable in Luke 19, when he returns, he delivers the reward to the good servants but also commands his enemies to be slain before him. In another parable, the tares are to be gathered for burning first. How do we harmonize these?

 

[keras]

My Bible says their souls are in heaven under the altar, and "White robes" (glorified bodies) are given to them and Jesus returns to the earth "From Heaven"..."WITH" all his saints.
How can they come with Jesus if they still here on earth in a grave????

Thanks Riberra, #4828 puts it well.
In your determination to support the false notion of a rapture ST, you ask questions that show your lack of understanding.

 

[Short Timer]

White robes represent the righteousness of saints....that is not the glorified bodies that they will receive at the resurrection of the Saints from their graves unto the Coming of Jesus after the Tribulation.
Revelation 19:8
8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.

Re 6:11 And white robes were given unto every one of them;

Isa 61:10 I will greatly rejoice in the LORD, my soul shall be joyful in my God; for he hath clothed me with the garments of salvation, he hath covered me (soul) with the robe of righteousness, (Glorified Body)

The Soul/Spirit of the believers in Jesus goes to Heaven when we die .That is that "part" that Jesus will bring with Him to be reunited with the body left in the grave at His return after the Tribulation. At this moment the dead in Christ will rise incorruptible in their glorified body...to be caught up and gathered together with those in Christ still alive and changed into their glorified body to meet Jesus in the clouds in the air...

Other than the two witnesses, you won't a rapture mentioned anywhere in scripture, OT or NT that is describing the trib.

Revelation reveals what occurs as each seal is opened, nowhere is a church rapture mentioned.

And the reason is because nowhere during the trib is there a church rapture.

The trib is reserved for those who have rejected or backslid on God, but if you're not guilty of either, then you will be "Accounted worthy" to escape the trib,

and the only escape possible is to "Leave the earth".

Your ignorance of the "purpose of the trib" is why your doctrine is so fouled up.

 

[Short Timer]

In the parable in Luke 19, when he returns, he delivers the reward to the good servants but also commands his enemies to be slain before him. In another parable, the tares are to be gathered for burning first. How do we harmonize these?

Casting them into hell is not slaying (killing) them????

 

[ivebeenshown]

Casting them into hell is not slaying (killing) them????

I do not know what you intend to convey with your post. Is this a question, or a statement with poor punctuation?

 

[Short Timer]

Thanks Riberra, #4828 puts it well.
In your determination to support the false notion of a rapture ST, you ask questions that show your lack of understanding.

Would you care to explain how the Little Girl and young man that died but were never "buried" in a "Grave",

and was "Resurrected"???

In your ignorance, you assume that "Resurrection" can only mean coming out of a grave, but it doesn't.

 

[Short Timer]

I do not know what you intend to convey with your post. Is this a question, or a statement with poor punctuation?

You said:
commands his enemies to be slain before him. In another parable, the tares are to be gathered for burning first. How do we harmonize these?

I SAID:
Casting them into hell is not slaying (killing) them????



Lu 12:5 But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him.

 

[keras]

Can you prove with scripture any of these statements? God called His city a HEAVENLY city. Indeed, when we go there it will be a heavenly city.

Yes I have proved all I say with scriptures. Revelation 21:1-3 proves that after the Millennium, New Jerusalem comes down to earth and God will dwell with mankind.

Then again, you can never prove by scripture that John 14 is not about God taking us to heaven - because that is exactly what it says.

In your delusion, you think that. What John 14:1-5 really says is that at His Return to earth, He will gather His people, who then will be with Him always.

Then again, you will MISS the marriage and supper in heaven. The Bride won't because she will already be there.

Because I don't believe in your theory of going to heaven to escape any testing, then I miss the M.S.? What nonsense!
What will happen is as Paul explains in 1 Thess 4:14-17: When Jesus descends from heaven, the souls of the dead in Christ [note: v14...He will bring with Him.] will be rejoined with their bodies an all who remain alive, all the survivors of the disasters of the G.T., will rise to meet Him for the 30 day Marriage Supper. Daniel 12:12

 

[keras]

In the parable in Luke 19, when he returns, he delivers the reward to the good servants but also commands his enemies to be slain before him. In another parable, the tares are to be gathered for burning first. How do we harmonize these?

They are two separate events.
The first is the terrible judgement/punishment of the nations, Isaiah 63:1-6, by fire from the sun. Isaiah 30:26, Malachi 4:1
The second is when Jesus Returns bringing His rewards with Him for His servants and He destroys His enemies. Revelation 19:17-21

 

[Short Timer]

That is the point .That ANGEL sent by God have the mission to show the prophecy to John...that's all.

If angels are Sons of God, then Satan is the "Brother to Jesus", and since Jesus is God then Satan is the "Brother of God".

Really want to go there?????

Angels are just "ministering Spirits", nothing more.

 

[ivebeenshown]

You said:
commands his enemies to be slain before him. In another parable, the tares are to be gathered for burning first. How do we harmonize these?

I SAID:
Casting them into hell is not slaying (killing) them????



Lu 12:5 But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him.

Thank you for the explanation. I will do some more research on these parables.

 

[Riberra]

Re 6:11 And white robes were given unto every one of them;

Isa 61:10 I will greatly rejoice in the LORD, my SOUL shall be joyful in my God; for he hath clothed me with the garments of salvation, he hath covered me (soul) with the robe of righteousness, (Glorified Body)

Isa 61:10 say nothing about Glorified Body.... but talk about his SOUL.

Other than the two witnesses, you won't a rapture mentioned anywhere in scripture, OT or NT that is describing the trib.

Revelation reveals what occurs as each seal is opened, nowhere is a church rapture mentioned.

And the reason is because nowhere during the trib is there a church rapture.

The trib is reserved for those who have rejected or backslid on God, but if you're not guilty of either, then you will be "Accounted worthy" to escape the trib,

and the only escape possible is to "Leave the earth".

Your ignorance of the "purpose of the trib" is why your doctrine is so fouled up.

The resurrection and the rapture to meet Jesus in the clouds 1 Thess 4:14-17 is mentioned by Paul as happening unto the coming of the Lord(Jesus)... Jesus Himself say that His coming will happen AFTER the Tribulation of those Days.
Matthew 24:29-31

How can you manage to get the rapture to meet Jesus in the clouds happening before the tribulation....after reading these verses ?

 

[Short Timer]

Isa 61:10 say nothing about Glorified Body.... but talk about his SOUL.

Ro 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me (soul) from the body (robe of flesh) of this death?

The resurrection and the rapture to meet Jesus in the clouds 1 Thess 4:14-17 is mentioned by Paul as happening unto the coming of the Lord(Jesus)... Jesus Himself say that His coming will happen AFTER the Tribulation of those Days.
Matthew 24:29-31

How can you manage to get the rapture to meet Jesus in the clouds happening before the tribulation....after reading these verses ?

The second coming is mentioned throughout the OT, but if Jesus/church was a mystery, as scripture say, why wouldn't the Mystery of the Rapture of Jesus/church not also be a mystery coming not mentioned or known????

The rapture and SC are not at the same time, which is why there is no rapture mentioned any place the trib is described.

and none of you can produce such scripture.

 

[Riberra]

The second coming is mentioned throughout the OT, but if Jesus/church was a mystery, as scripture say, why wouldn't the Mystery of the Rapture of Jesus/church not also be a mystery coming not mentioned or known????

The rapture and SC are not at the same time, which is why there is no rapture mentioned any place the trib is described.

and none of you can produce such scripture.

A better wording would be that:
-Nowhere in the Bible there is mention of the Resurrection and the Rapture of those in Christ happening BEFORE the Tribulation.

-Nowhere in the Bible there is mention of the Resurrection and the Rapture of those in Christ happening DURING the Tribulation.

The only option possible is MENTIONED IN THE BIBLE; is that this will happen AFTER the Tribulation unto the Second Coming.

 

[ivebeenshown]

The second coming is mentioned throughout the OT, but if Jesus/church was a mystery, as scripture say, why wouldn't the Mystery of the Rapture of Jesus/church not also be a mystery coming not mentioned or known???

Jesus was mentioned thoroughly in the Old Testament. Thus He and the Apostles were able to point out those passages.

The rapture and SC are not at the same time, which is why there is no rapture mentioned any place the trib is described.

and none of you can produce such scripture.

Jesus mentions the Angels gathering his elect after the days of tribulation. Paul mentions the coming of Christ and our gathering unto him in the same breath. Paul also says that when the Lord comes, we will be caught up to him in the clouds. 1 Thessalonians 4, for a reference to that last one.

 

[Bible2+]

Postvieww said in post 4777:

Can anyone with scripture separate, “the resurrection of the dead” “Then cometh the end” and “when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God” “when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power” from “Christ's at his coming” in the passage 1 Corin 15:20-24?

1 Corinthians 15:20 ¶But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

Note that this doesn't mean that Jesus will deliver the kingdom to God the Father immediately at his 2nd coming, only that he will do that sometime subsequent to his 2nd coming. For right after his 2nd coming, "he must reign" (1 Corinthians 15:25) on the earth with the physically resurrected church for 1,000 years (Revelation 19:7 to 20:6, Revelation 5:10, Revelation 2:26-29). Then he must defeat the Gog/Magog rebellion (Revelation 20:7-10, Ezekiel chapters 38-39). Then he must physically resurrect and judge the unsaved of all times, at the great white throne judgment (Revelation 20:11-15). Only then will he have "put all enemies under his feet" (1 Corinthians 15:25), including death itself (1 Corinthians 15:26), which will be cast into the lake of fire at the great white throne judgment (Revelation 20:14). Only after that will Jesus deliver up the kingdom to the Father (1 Corinthians 15:24). Then a new heaven (a new 1st heaven/sky/atmosphere) and a new earth (a new surface of the earth) will be created, and God the Father will descend from heaven to the new earth in the literal city of New Jerusalem, the Father's house (John 14:2), to live with the church on the new earth (Revelation 21:1-4).

Postvieww said in post 4777:

Can anyone with scripture show “Then cometh the end” “the mystery of God should be finished” “that there should be time no longer” are not statements of finality that refer to the same event?

Revelation 10:6 And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer:
7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

In Revelation 10:6, "that there should be time no longer" could simply mean that the tribulation's final stage, the vials (Revelation 16), will no longer be off in the future once the 7th trumpet sounds (Revelation 10:7). For the vials' plagues will come out of the 7th trumpet's heavenly-temple opening (Revelation 11:15,19, Revelation 15:5 to 16:1).

In Revelation 10:7, "finished" in the original Greek is "teleo" (G5055), which can mean "performed" (Luke 2:39). Revelation 10:7 means that the prophetic writings regarding the tribulation will finish being performed at the 7th trumpet of the tribulation. For (again) out of the 7th trumpet's heavenly-temple opening will come the final stage of the tribulation, the 7 plagues of the 7 vials of God's wrath (Revelation 11:19, Revelation 15:5 to 16:1).

In Revelation 10:7, the "mystery" is currently known by the church, just as, for example, the "mystery" in Romans 16:25-26 and Colossians 1:26 is currently known by the church. For the mystery in Revelation 10:7 has already been "declared to his servants the prophets" (Revelation 10:7), just as the "mystery" in Romans 16:25-26 and Colossians 1:26 is already "made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets" (Romans 16:26).

 

[Bible2+]

Short Timer said in post 4781:
Did the OT saints that Jesus resurrected, some of which appeared in Jerusalem, go to heaven with Jesus when he ascended wearing their glorified bodies????

Matthew 27:52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

Note that the original Greek word (egeiro: G1453) translated as "arose" in Matthew 27:52 can refer to recently-dead people's bodies being resuscitated back to mortal life, like how Jesus "raised (egeiro)" the recently-dead Lazarus (John 12:1), who was one of Jesus' followers (John 11:11, cf. John 15:14), back to mortal life, by crying out with a loud voice (John 11:43-44). The dead saints who were raised sometime later when they heard Jesus cry out with a loud voice on the Cross (Matthew 27:50-52, John 5:25), and who came out of their graves after Jesus' physical resurrection (Matthew 27:53), could have also been recently-dead followers of Jesus. Their bodies were resuscitated back to mortal life, like happened with Lazarus (John 12:1). For the resurrection of Jesus' followers into immortal physical bodies won't happen until his 2nd coming (1 Corinthians 15:21-23,52-53; 1 Thessalonians 4:15-16, Revelation 19:7 to 20:6), which won't happen until immediately after the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24 (Matthew 24:29-31; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8, Revelation 19:7 to 20:6).

*******

Short Timer said in post 4795:

My Bible says the unsaved and Tares cast into hell at the second coming are not resurrected until the GWT, or after the Mill Reign is over.

Regarding the parable of the wheat and the tares (Matthew 13:24-30,36-43), in Matthew 13:38 the good seed are the elect, and the tares are the nonelect, the human children of Satan, who can't ever believe in Jesus (John 8:42-47). Matthew 13:40-42 won't occur at the 2nd coming, but at the great white throne judgment (Revelation 20:11-14), after the future millennium and subsequent events (Revelation 20:7-10), when the unsaved will be cast into the lake of fire (Revelation 20:15). In Matthew 13:43, the kingdom of the Father is after the great white throne judgment, when a new earth (a new surface of the earth) will be created, and God the Father will descend from heaven in the literal city of New Jerusalem to live with the church on the new earth (Revelation 21:1-3).

*******

Short Timer said in post 4807:

Angels are not "Brothers" to "Sons of Son" i.e. "Prophets".

Note that Revelation 22:9 can be read as follows:

Revelation 22:9 Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: for I am thy fellowservant, and [the fellowservant] of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God.

That is, the angel in Revelation 22:8-9 wasn't saying that he was a human, but was simply saying that he also was a servant of God, along with John, the prophets, and all other obedient humans.

*******

Short Timer said in post 4821:

They're brothers because they are both "Sons of God" and being "Prophets", makes them brothers or Sons of God.

which angels can never be, or even hinted at being.

Note that angels are sons of God:

Job 1:6 ¶Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.

Job 2:1 ¶Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the LORD.

-

Job 38:7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy . . .

*******

Short Timer said in post 4837:

The second coming is mentioned throughout the OT, but if Jesus/church was a mystery, as scripture say, why wouldn't the Mystery of the Rapture of Jesus/church not also be a mystery coming not mentioned or known????

Are you thinking of the following verse?

1 Corinthians 15:51 ¶Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed . . .

If so, note that Paul didn't call the rapture-coming itself a mystery in 1 Corinthians 15:51, for Jesus had already clearly taught the rapture-coming in the Gospels (John 14:3b, Matthew 24:30-31, Mark 13:26-27, cf. 2 Thessalonians 2:1). Instead, the mystery explained in 1 Corinthians 15:51-55 (cf. John 11:26) is the instantaneous changing of living believers into immortal physical bodies, at the same, 2nd-coming time that the bodies of dead believers will be resurrected from their graves into immortal physical bodies (1 Corinthians 15:51-55; 1 Corinthians 15:21-23, Romans 8:23-25). It is only after this 2nd-coming resurrection and changing that the rapture (the catching up together/gathering together) of all believers will occur (1 Thessalonians 4:16b-17; 2 Thessalonians 2:1, Matthew 24:30-31, John 14:3b).

Also, there was a contrast between the Old Testament prophecies regarding the Messiah's/the Christ's coming, with some of them showing him coming to be meekly crucified for our sins (Isaiah 53, Psalms 22), and others showing him literally descending from heaven to wage war and to physically reign on the earth (Zechariah 14, Micah 4:1-4). But note that nothing in the Old or New Testament requires a future (to us), pre-tribulation coming of Christ versus only a post-tribulation coming of Christ. For all the as-yet-unfulfilled Old and New Testament prophecies regarding Christ's coming will be fulfilled at or sometime after his post-tribulation coming.

 

[Bible2+]

iamlamad said in post 4782:

ASk yourself: does a verse make good sense in a literal sense (such as the scriptures about the 1000 years)? If so, LEAVE IT ALONE! It was meant to be taken literally.

Good point.

For amillennialism mistakenly claims that the "thousand" in Revelation 20:4-6 can't be literal, but must be only symbolic of fullness/completion, like in Psalms 50:10. But in the Bible, "thousand" can be literal (e.g. Numbers 31:4-6, Numbers 35:4, Judges 20:10; 2 Kings 15:19; 1 Chronicles 19:6, Song of Songs 8:11, Revelation 20:2-7).

Amillennialism ends up (inadvertently) logically requiring the error of full preterism (2 Timothy 2:18). For claiming that the church's resurrection in Revelation 20:4-6 is already present requires that Jesus' 2nd coming has already happened. For the church's resurrection in Revelation 20:4-6 won't happen until the 2nd coming (Revelation 19:7 to 20:6; 1 Corinthians 15:21-23,51-54; 1 Thessalonians 4:15-16). Also, amillennialism ends up (inadvertently) logically requiring the error of partial preterism. For claiming that the resurrection of those beheaded by the Antichrist during the future tribulation and their subsequent reigning on the earth with the returned Jesus for the full 1,000 years of the millennium (Revelation 20:4-6, Revelation 5:10, Revelation 2:26-29) is already present, requires that the Antichrist's literal, 3.5-year worldwide reign during the tribulation (Revelation 13:4-18) has already happened. Also, amillennialism is mistaken because it requires that the devil is currently bound in the bottomless pit (Revelation 20:1-6), when in fact he is currently walking around on the earth seeking whom he may devour (1 Peter 5:8), and he won't be bound until the 2nd coming (Revelation 19:19 to 20:3).

*******

iamlamad said in post 4785:

They have to wait for the final martyr of the church age.

Note that there is no such thing as the church age, for the church will continue in the world throughout all ages (Ephesians 3:21, John 17:15). For just as the church will continue in the world throughout the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24 (Matthew 24:9-13, Revelation 13:7-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 20:4-6), and then throughout the subsequent millennium (Revelation 20:4-6, Revelation 5:10, Revelation 2:26-29), so the church will then continue forever on the new earth (Revelation 21:1 to 22:5).

*******

iamlamad said in post 4809:

Paul wrote his text before John wrote his. Indeed, at Paul's pretrib rapture, that "last trump" will be the final trumpet of the church age, for the moment of the rapture the door will close and the church age will be OVER.

The "last trump" (1 Corinthians 15:52) is the trumpet which will sound after the tribulation (Matthew 24:31).

iamlamad said in post 4809:

Paul wrote his text before John wrote his. Indeed, at Paul's pretrib rapture, that "last trump" will be the final trumpet of the church age, for the moment of the rapture the door will close and the church age will be OVER.

Regarding the present age (world) ending, note that nothing in verses like Ephesians 1:21b, Ephesians 1:10, Ephesians 3:2, Colossians 1:25, Titus 2:12b and Hebrews 6:5 says or requires that only the present age is an age of grace or a church age, or that the age to come won't also be an age of grace or a church age.

Also, the present age can include the future tribulation (Revelation chapters 6 to 18) and the subsequent millennium (Revelation 20), with the age to come being the subsequent time of the new earth (Revelation 21). For the end of the present age, when all the unsaved will be cast into the lake of fire (Matthew 13:40, Revelation 20:15), won't occur until sometime after the future millennium (Revelation 20:7-15).

 

[Bible2+]

ivebeenshown said in post 4792:

I can also interpret Revelation 20 in a harmonious manner by pinning the "first resurrection" as what Paul said in his other letter: that in baptism we "are risen" . . .

Note that while there is the non-physical resurrection of initial salvation (e.g. Ephesians 2:5-6), the 1st resurrection in Revelation 20:4-6 will be physical (cf. Romans 8:23). For Revelation 20:5 says "But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished", meaning that the 1st resurrection will be the same, physical type of resurrection as will occur sometime after the 1,000 years (Revelation 20:7-15). For not every dead person is going to be non-physically resurrected in the sense of becoming saved (Revelation 20:15), and Revelation 20:5 means that the rest of the dead (i.e. all the non-church dead of all times) will be resurrected in the same manner that the church will be resurrected in Revelation 20:4-6, but the rest of the dead won't be resurrected until sometime after the 1,000 years.

Also, the 1st resurrection in Revelation 20:4-6 will be physical because it won't occur until Jesus' (never fulfilled) 2nd coming (Revelation 19:7 to 20:6), and the resurrection of the church which will occur at Jesus' 2nd coming will be a physical resurrection, just like Jesus' physical resurrection on the 3rd day after his death (Luke 24:39,46; 1 Corinthians 15:21-23,52-58, Philippians 3:20-21, Romans 8:23-25; 1 Thessalonians 4:16-18).

ivebeenshown said in post 4792:

. . . and what Scripture says elsewhere, in Revelation if I recall correctly, that "he has made us kings and priests." For if we are indeed risen as Paul stated, and if we have indeed been made kings, then we have indeed been risen and do reign with Christ.

Revelation 1:6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

Revelation 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

While Christians are kings and priests now, and are in the kingdom's spiritual aspect now (Romans 14:17), they aren't yet in the kingdom's physical aspect (Luke 22:30, Matthew 19:28) which will exist on the earth during the future millennium (Revelation 20:4-6, Revelation 5:10, Revelation 2:26-29).

 

[iamlamad]

Jesus was mentioned thoroughly in the Old Testament. Thus He and the Apostles were able to point out those passages.

Jesus mentions the Angels gathering his elect after the days of tribulation. Paul mentions the coming of Christ and our gathering unto him in the same breath. Paul also says that when the Lord comes, we will be caught up to him in the clouds. 1 Thessalonians 4, for a reference to that last one.

No posttribber has EVER been able to prove that the Matthew 24 gathering is the rapture. Indeed it will be impossible to prove such a thing, because it is NOT. Did you never study WHERE this gathering in Matthew 24 is gathered FROM? It cannot be the rapture. In Paul's rapture we are gathered from the air around the earth. It will NOT be from the furthest reaches of heaven.

Perhaps what you have been shown was in error.

By the way, if Jesus said something before Paul, then for Paul it was NOT a mystery. Right?