why do jews reject jesus?

[LoAmmi]

Chapters and verses did not exist in the original text. You cannot take Hosea 11:1 and set it by itself without 2, 3, 4, 5, 6.

Verse two makes it completely clear that Israel in verse one refers to a group.

I"m admitting what?! That Israel, the people, were called out of Egypt when Moses took them out.

Israel was referred to as a she in the places you put up because Israel is being compared to a harlot woman. In other places, Israel is referred to as he when Israel is being referred to as HaShem's firstborn son.

My friend, you lack a basic grasp of Biblical knowledge. Most Christians would have no dispute with what I'm saying here with the exception of Isaiah 53.

 

[LoAmmi]

Look at Isaiah 14:1.

For the Lord shall have mercy on Jacob and again choose Israel, and He shall place them on their soil, and the strangers shall accompany them and join the House of Jacob.

This verse is NOT about Jacob the patriarch. It is about the Jewish people. See "them"?

 

[0ptimus]

I have a book called the illustrated bible i bought it my self and i have studied it,

One of my pages is called prophecies of the Messiah that are fullfilled in Jesus, from the old testament in the new testament.

To born in Bethlehem Micah 5:2 and fulfilled in Mathew 2:2:1-6 and Luke 2:1-20

To born of a virgin Isiah 7:14 and fulfilled in Mathew 1:18-25

To escape to Egypt Hosea 11:1 and full filled in Mathew 2:14-15.

To be called a prophet like Moses Deuteronomy 18:15-19 fulfilled in acts 3:20 and 3:22 and 7:37

To heal the broken hearted ISIAH 61:1-2 and fulfilled in Luke 4:18-19

To be rejected by his people Isiah 53 and fulfilled in John 1:11.

To be the stone the builders rejected psalms 111:22-23 and fulfilled in Luke 20:17 and act 4:11

To enter Jerusalem as a king in Zechariah 9:9 and fullfilled in mathew 26:14-15 and 27:9-10

To be sold for 30 silver coins Zechariah 11:12 and fulfilled in mathew 26:14-15 and 27:9-10

To be tried and condemned Isiah 53:8 and fulfilled in Mathew 26:59.

To be silent at his trial Isiah 53:7 and fulfilled in Mark 15:3-5.

To be spat on by beaten by his enemies Isiah 50:6 and fulfilled Mathew 26:67.

To be hated for no reason psalms 35:19 and fulfilled in john 15:25

To be sacrificed in humanities place Isiah 53:4-5 and fulfilled in Mathew 8:17 and 1 Peter 2:4 and Romans 4:25.

To be crucified with criminals Isiah 53:12 and fulfilled in MARK 15:27-28.

To be insulted scorned and mocked psalms 22:7-8 and fulled in Luke 23:11,35.

Soldiers to gamble for his clothes psalms 22:18 and fulfilled in mathew 27:35-36.

To not have one of his bones broken Exodus 12:46 and psalms 34:20 and fulfilled in John 19:36

To Have his hands feet and sides pierced Zechariah 12:10 and fulfilled n John 19:34-37

To be buried in a rich mans tomb ISIAH 53:9 and fulfilled in Mathew 27:57-60

To be resurrected from the grave psalms 16:10 and fulfilled in Mathew 28:1-10

To ascend to Gods right hand Psalms 68:18 and 110:1and fullfilled in mathew 26:64 and luke 254:50 and eph 4:8 and acts 1:9-11..

 

[0ptimus]

This one should make you see the messiah has already been and gone

To Have his hands feet and sides pierced Zechariah 12:10 who in this day and age is going to have his hands and sides and feet pierced. ?

 

[LoAmmi]

This one should make you see the messiah has already been and gone

To Have his hands feet and sides pierced Zechariah 12:10 who in this day and age is going to have his hands and sides and feet pierced. ?

And I will pour out upon the house of David and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of grace and supplications. And they shall look to me because of those who have been thrust through [with swords], and they shall mourn over it as one mourns over an only son and shall be in bitterness, therefore, as one is embittered over a firstborn son.

Not sure what you're talking about. Even if it says pierced, it says nothing about "hands and feet".

 

[LoAmmi]

If you want to discuss the long list you posted, we will go though them slowly. Pick one you really like and I'll discuss it with you.

 

[0ptimus]

And I will pour out upon the house of David and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of grace and supplications. And they shall look to me because of those who have been thrust through [with swords], and they shall mourn over it as one mourns over an only son and shall be in bitterness, therefore, as one is embittered over a firstborn son.

Not sure what you're talking about. Even if it says pierced, it says nothing about "hands and feet".

How come you bring up one of the only translation that don't mention pierced ?, or is this your own translation.

Could you read the original text in the tanahk for this ?

Zechariah 12:10 Translations

King James Version (KJV)

And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.
American King James Version (AKJV)

And I will pour on the house of David, and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look on me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourns for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.
American Standard Version (ASV)

And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplication; and they shall look unto me whom they have pierced; and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his first-born.
Basic English Translation (BBE)

And I will send down on the family of David and on the people of Jerusalem the spirit of grace and of prayer; and their eyes will be turned to the one who was wounded by their hands: and they will be weeping for him as for an only son, and their grief for him will be bitter, like the grief of one sorrowing for his oldest son.
Webster's Revision

And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplication; and they shall look unto me whom they have pierced; and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his first-born.
World English Bible

I will pour on the house of David, and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplication; and they will look to me whom they have pierced; and they shall mourn for him, as one mourns for his only son, and will grieve bitterly for him, as one grieves for his firstborn.
English Revised Version (ERV)

And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplication; and they shall look unto me whom they have pierced: and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.

 

[0ptimus]

If you want to discuss the long list you posted, we will go though them slowly. Pick one you really like and I'll discuss it with you.

Lol ok later alligator shalom

 

[LoAmmi]

I pulled that translation from the site I gave you. One I have here says pierced in the Koren Jerusalem Bible, but it doesn't suggest that HaShem was pierced as Christian versions do. The wording there in the original means "regarding" so we look to the Lord regarding those who have been pierced. As I said, nothing in the text says hands, feet, or side. So, your argument there is invalid. It simply says pierced which could be plenty of things that still exist in the world.

 

[0ptimus]

I pulled that translation from the site I gave you. One I have here says pierced in the Koren Jerusalem Bible, but it doesn't suggest that HaShem was pierced as Christian versions do. The wording there in the original means "regarding" so we look to the Lord regarding those who have been pierced. As I said, nothing in the text says hands, feet, or side. So, your argument there is invalid. It simply says pierced which could be plenty of things that still exist in the world.

well actually look at this one
Basic English Translation (BBE)

And I will send down on the family of David and on the people of Jerusalem the spirit of grace and of prayer; and their eyes will be turned to the one who was wounded by their hands: and they will be weeping for him as for an only son, and their grief for him will be bitter, like the grief of one sorrowing for his oldest son.


That one there says to the one who was wounded by there hands ? so not as invalid as you think, but its early days yet

 

[LoAmmi]

"by their hands" is not in the Hebrew text. You can keep posting as many Christian interpretations as you'd like, that doesn't magically make the words appear in the Hebrew.

 

[LoAmmi]

http://www.thejewishhome.org/counter/Zech12_10.pdf

Here, a far better write up than I could provide.

 

[0ptimus]

English translation of the original hebrew text according to your pdf.
What you have to understand is the original Hebrew text forms pictures in your mind and can have many meanings. This is why we get different words in different translations

Ok so this is how this translation on your PDF starts out
Zechariah 12:10
so it starts of with I will pour upon the house of David and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem. (lets stop here)

Now unless i am mistaken the house of David was destroyed i believe it was rebuilt and destroyed again, Who gave the instruction to rebuild it ?
the house of David or the temple is no longer standing, so that should tell you that Jesus the messiah has been and gone.

 

[0ptimus]

Now lets look at another perspective of what we discussed earlier.

To escape to Egypt Hosea 11:1 and fullfilled in Mathew 2:14-15.

Matthew 2:14-15




14 When he arose, he took the young child and his mother by night, and departed into Egypt:
15 And was there until the death of Herod: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Out of Egypt have I called my son.



did you know the Bible contains over 2000 prophesies ?

 

[LoAmmi]

English translation of the original hebrew text according to your pdf.
What you have to understand is the original Hebrew text forms pictures in your mind and can have many meanings. This is why we get different words in different translations

Ok so this is how this translation on your PDF starts out
Zechariah 12:10
so it starts of with I will pour upon the house of David and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem. (lets stop here)

Now unless i am mistaken the house of David was destroyed i believe it was rebuilt and destroyed again, Who gave the instruction to rebuild it ?
the house of David or the temple is no longer standing, so that should tell you that Jesus the messiah has been and gone.

The House of David is David's line, not the Temple. The Temple is the House of HaShem.

 

[smaneck]

Now lets look at another perspective of what we discussed earlier.

To escape to Egypt Hosea 11:1 and fullfilled in Mathew 2:14-15.

Matthew 2:14-15

Uh, maybe you should read that verse from Hosea in its entirety:

“When Israel was a child, I loved him,
And out of Egypt I called My son."

What the writer of Matthew's Gospel is doing is presenting the story of Jesus as an analogy to the story of Israel. Hence, just as all Jewish boys were killed at the time Moses was born, so the male babies of Bethlehem are killed at the birth of the Christ child. And btw, there is no historical evidence that it ever happened. If Herod had been guilty of such an atrocity we would have *some* Jewish account.

 

[LoAmmi]

Now lets look at another perspective of what we discussed earlier.

To escape to Egypt Hosea 11:1 and fullfilled in Mathew 2:14-15.

Matthew 2:14-15




14 When he arose, he took the young child and his mother by night, and departed into Egypt:
15 And was there until the death of Herod: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Out of Egypt have I called my son.



did you know the Bible contains over 2000 prophesies ?

Ah, Matthew. You'll notice that he cuts off half of the sentence to shoehorn Jesus into Hosea here. Here's a hint for you. If you want to convince a Jew of Jesus, pretend Matthew doesn't exist. His is by far the worst offender at shoehorning Jesus into places Jesus doesn't belong. But, hey, it's ok. Hosea 11 is about Jesus, right?

2. The more they called to them, the more they went away from them; to the baalim they would slaughter sacrifices, and to the graven images they would burn incense.

Man! That Jesus guy was practicing idolatry and sacrificing to foreign gods since you're telling me that Hosea 11 is all about him! Why should I follow him?

 

[0ptimus]

The House of David is David's line, not the Temple. The Temple is the House of HaShem.

Zechariah 12:10
so it starts of with I will pour upon the house of David and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem.

I will pour on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem,

surely the inhabitants of Jerusalem must be the line of David, ?

again your argument is invalid

 

[LoAmmi]

Zechariah 12:10
so it starts of with I will pour upon the house of David and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem.

I will pour on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem,

surely the inhabitants of Jerusalem must be the line of David, ?

again your argument is invalid

Everybody who lives in Jerusalem descends from David?

Man, the Levites and the Kohanim are going to be shocked that they are from a completely different line than they thought they were.

 

[0ptimus]

Ah, Matthew. You'll notice that he cuts off half of the sentence to shoehorn Jesus into Hosea here. Here's a hint for you. If you want to convince a Jew of Jesus, pretend Matthew doesn't exist. His is by far the worst offender at shoehorning Jesus into places Jesus doesn't belong. But, hey, it's ok. Hosea 11 is about Jesus, right?

2. The more they called to them, the more they went away from them; to the baalim they would slaughter sacrifices, and to the graven images they would burn incense.

Man! That Jesus guy was practicing idolatry and sacrificing to foreign gods since you're telling me that Hosea 11 is all about him! Why should I follow him?

Hosea 11:1 God's Love for His Rebellious People

11 The Lord says,
“When Israel was a child, I loved him
and called him out of Egypt as my son

Matthew 2:14-15

14 When he arose, he took the young child and his mother by night, and departed into Egypt:
15 And was there until the death of Herod: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Out of Egypt have I called my son.

this looks by far a better explanation than your reasoning about Israel being refereed to as a him, shalom