why do jews reject jesus?

[LoAmmi]

Jerusalem is referred to as a she there.

 

[0ptimus]

Some more passages Israel referred to as a she,

Jeremiah 3:8
…"And I saw that for all the adulteries of faithless Israel, I had sent her away and given her a writ of divorce, yet her treacherous sister Judah did not fear;


Amos 5:2
Hear this word which I take up for you as a dirge, O house of Israel: She has fallen, she will not rise again-- The virgin Israel. She lies neglected on her land; There is none to raise her up. For thus says the Lord GOD, "The city which goes forth a thousand strong Will have a hundred left, And the one which goes forth a hundred strong Will have ten left to the house of Israel."

Just one more but nothing to do with Isreal being referred to as a she John 3:16

For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

 

[LoAmmi]

I'm not sure why you think Israel cannot be referred to as he or she depending on context. Your argument is not valid. Hosea 11 is obviously the nation of Israel and it is he.

 

[0ptimus]

I am still waiting for UN-answered questions from you, hosea 11:1 When Israel was a youth I loved him, And out of Egypt I called My son. again are you sure that is not talking about Jacob, as you know he was renamed Isreal,

I have shown you more scripture to show Isreal is refereed to a she than a he, I have shown 4 scripture that says Israel is referred to as a she you have only shown 1 that you think Isreal ie referred to a he.

Again what English translations do you read ?.

 

[LoAmmi]

I am still waiting for UN-answered questions from you, hosea 11:1 When Israel was a youth I loved him, And out of Egypt I called My son. again are you sure that is not talking about Jacob, as you know he was renamed Isreal,

Jacob died in Egypt. He was not called out of Egypt. Hosea is an obvious reference to the Exodus. Also, verse 2 states "they", so it isn't the singular Jacob.

Again what English translations do you read ?.

The Complete Tanach with Rashi's Commentary - Tanakh Online - Torah - Bible

That's one I use. I also have several Jewish translations in my home including the Artscroll one.

 

[WoodrowX2]

For a more direct answer to the question:"
why do jews reject jesus?




The answer is very simple. For the exact same reasons Christians reject Muhammad(saws).

If you are a Christian look at why you reject Muhammad(saws) and that is why Jews reject Jesus(as)

 

[ViaCrucis]

Well to me every person who truly seeks to know the truth will do what the bible says to do, (And that is to search the scriptures).
This is the main reason why many people read the old testament English translation of the Tanakh, "and then look in the Tanakh (Hebrew text)", to see how well it lines up with the old testament (English translation), "This is Good but it should not be to prove the the English translation of the Tanakh wrong.
The English translations of the tanahk where done by biblical scholars.

How many people here are scholars of the bible translation and have a master degree in Hebrew language or Arabic ?.

I assume you mean Aramaic, not Arabic.

There's an Italian proverb I heard once, translated, "The translator is a traitor". The process of translation is, by its very nature, a biased act. While in some cases there are direct words that can be translated from one language to another without losing meaning--Latin cattus and English cat. However more often than not the act of translation is the art of approximation; and that approximation is going to be largely determined by the opinions of the one doing the translation.

For example, the English Standard Translation (ESV) often renders ὑπακούω (hypakouo) as "obey". Though it really doesn't mean "obey", as a compound of ὑπό ("under") and ἀκούω ("hear", "understand", "perceive") the idea is less about an active doing, but a passive receiving. "Obey" would suggest our active doing, but ὑπακούω is a passive activity, by which we hear a thing and the thing acts upon us.

Consider Romans 10:16, "But they have not all obeyed the gospel". The word for "obeyed" is a form of ὑπακούω; as the Gospel isn't something obeyed, it is something heard, received, trusted upon. The Gospel isn't a commandment that instructs us to do, it is the declared promises of God, of what God has done in/by Christ, and it acts upon us, in our hearing of it.

To render ὑπακούω as "obey" demonstrates perhaps a bias, but more accurately demonstrates the inadequacy of the target language to fully offer what the source language is saying. Because ὑπακούω being translated to "underhear" would indeed be rather correct, there is no such word in the English language, and it still would require more information. But when we understand the nuances of ὑπακούω, we can better understand texts such as Romans 10:16, which are not about obeying a law, but hearing and being worked upon by the Gospel, as St. Paul continues to write in v. 17, that faith comes by hearing the Word of Christ. Faith is passively received, given to a passive agent--us--through the pro-active Word doing.

I don't know Hebrew or Aramaic, like, at all; but I imagine that given how much more alien these are from English (at least Greek is within the Indo-European language family) translation can often be more fluid.

Further: Christian translations, even of the Masoretic Text (MT) typically involve readings that are traditional in Christian circles due to the historic influence of the Septuagint. This is what changes, radically, how Christians and Jews translate (for example) Psalm 22:16, which Christians have traditionally read as "they have pierced my hands and feet", due to the influence of the Septuagint and Christianity's historic dependence on the Septuagint. As "pierced" is not found in the Hebrew, or at least the Hebrew textual tradition of the MT.

Thus Christian English translations have historically used both the Septuagint and the Vulgate even while using the Masoretic Text as a primary base. This is why the King James Version renders Isaiah 14:12 using the Latin "lucifer", it is a direct borrowing from the Vulgate.

I am still waiting for all the people here who claim that Jesus being the messiah is false based on writings from the tanakh from the prophets, to show me theses writings from the tanakh that they say prove that Jesus was not the messiah

One cannot prove a negative. Imagine, for a moment, if a Muslim told you to prove from the New Testament that Muhammad wasn't a prophet. There's obviously nothing in the text that says this--it's just that we as Christians don't accept Muslim claims about Muhammad.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[0ptimus]

One cannot prove a negative. Imagine, for a moment, if a Muslim told you to prove from the New Testament that Muhammad wasn't a prophet. There's obviously nothing in the text that says this--it's just that we as Christians don't accept Muslim claims about Muhammad.

-CryptoLutheran

Well since this topic is about Jesus, we should all try to stay on topic.

And if someone says the writings from the prophet in the tanakh prove Jesus was not the messiah, (surly they should have read that, and be able to show it,)
I never made claimed this someone else did, and all i am asking is that they show theese writings that they say prove the messiah was false ,so we can look at them and discuss them in a friendly matter.

P,s I would not say to Muslim,s Muhammad was false or any other religion, i would not call false, because i know how much peoples faith mean to them.

I only wish to learn from other religions, and i do not want to call any other religion false Simply because i am not an overseer of souls God is.

 

[0ptimus]

For a more direct answer to the question:"
why do jews reject jesus?




The answer is very simple. For the exact same reasons Christians reject Muhammad(saws).

If you are a Christian look at why you reject Muhammad(saws) and that is why Jews reject Jesus(as)

Thats where you and me differ, i do not reject anything, just because you think your right does not mean you are right, why so complex ? why not just be a child of God, every faith needs a savior.

 

[0ptimus]

Jacob died in Egypt. He was not called out of Egypt. Hosea is an obvious reference to the Exodus. Also, verse 2 states "they", so it isn't the singular Jacob.
.

you based this not being jacob on isreal being called a he before, and i quite clearly i showed 4 scriptures to show Israel is a she,

the farther brought many sons out of Egypt, that is your answer, shalom

 

[LoAmmi]

you based this not being jacob on isreal being called a he before, and i quite clearly i showed 4 scriptures to show Israel is a she,

I didn't base it on that.

I'm sorry, but at this point I assume you have no interest in what I have to say.

 

[0ptimus]

I didn't base it on that.

I'm sorry, but at this point I assume you have no interest in what I have to say.

what makes you say that ? lol say what you like but always remember you not always be right. shalom

you have been questioning my views, and i have been questioning yours, im not resorting to calling you ignorant, so why are you resorting to calling me ignorant ?
now the bible says you are to give ear to what you say, that means to listen to your self and also i should listen to my self and anyone else who i am talking to. my ears are always flapping

 

[LoAmmi]

The reason I said Jacob wasn't called out of Egypt was because he died in Egypt and because Hosea 11 is clearly about a group of people. You have no said I claimed it was because "he" was used. That is incorrect and I cannot see how someone could draw that from what I have said.

 

[0ptimus]

The reason I said Jacob wasn't called out of Egypt was because he died in Egypt and because Hosea 11 is clearly about a group of people. You have no said I claimed it was because "he" was used. That is incorrect and I cannot see how someone could draw that from what I have said.

That would be wrong to me, maybe not to you, but for me Jacob may have died in Egypt but that was just his body. His spirit however would have been called out of Egypt and up to heaven. Shalom, remember i told you that the sole is more precocious than the body. If you look deep enough into Hosea 11:1 you may see what i am saying here. i believe also his body was taken to cannaan.

 

[LoAmmi]

That would be wrong to me, maybe not to you, but for me Jacob may have died in Egypt but that was just his body. His spirit however would have been called out of Egypt and up to heaven. Shalom, remember i told you that the sole is more precocious than the body. If you look deep enough into Hosea 11:1 you may see what i am saying here. i believe also his body was taken to cannaan.

11 “When Israel was a child, I loved him,
and out of Egypt I called my son.
2 But the more they were called,
the more they went away from me.
They sacrificed to the Baals
and they burned incense to images.
3 It was I who taught Ephraim to walk,
taking them by the arms;
but they did not realize
it was I who healed them.
4 I led them with cords of human kindness,
with ties of love.
To them I was like one who lifts
a little child to the cheek,
and I bent down to feed them.

This is not about Jacob.

 

[0ptimus]

Jacob speaking to the farther, the farther "your name will no longer be Jacob because you have wrestled with God" your name will be called Israel (the jabbok river , thats where Jacob struggles with God.)

Genesis 50

New Century Version (NCV)

Jacob’s Burial

50 When Jacob died, Joseph hugged his father and cried over him and kissed him. 2 He commanded the doctors who served him to prepare his father’s body, so the doctors prepared Jacob’s body to be buried. 3 It took the doctors forty days to prepare his body (the usual time it took). And the Egyptians had a time of sorrow for Jacob that lasted seventy days.
4 When this time of sorrow had ended, Joseph spoke to the king’s officers and said, “If you think well of me, please tell this to the king: 5 ‘When my father was near death, I made a promise to him that I would bury him in a cave in the land of Canaan, in a burial place that he cut out for himself. So please let me go and bury my father, and then I will return.’”
6 The king answered, “Keep your promise. Go and bury your father.”
7 So Joseph went to bury his father. All the king’s officers, the elders of his court, and all the elders of Egypt went with Joseph. 8 Everyone who lived with Joseph and his brothers went with him, as well as everyone who lived with his father. They left only their children, their flocks, and their herds in the land of Goshen. 9 They went with Joseph in chariots and on horses. It was a very large group.
10 When they came to the threshing floor of Atad, near the Jordan River, they cried loudly and bitterly for his father. Joseph’s time of sorrow continued for seven days. 11 The people that lived in Canaan saw the sadness at the threshing floor of Atad and said, “Those Egyptians are showing great sorrow!” So now that place is named Sorrow of the Egyptians.
12 So Jacob’s sons did as their father commanded. 13 They carried his body to the land of Canaan and buried it in the cave in the field of Machpelah near Mamre. Abraham had bought this cave and field from Ephron the Hittite to use as a burial place. 14 After Joseph buried his father, he returned to Egypt, along with his brothers and everyone who had gone with him to bury his father.


Hosea 11:1


God's Love for His Rebellious People

11 The Lord says,
“When Israel was a child, I loved him
and called him out of Egypt as my son

 

[LoAmmi]

Yes, we are called Israel because we are descendants of Jacob.

 

[0ptimus]

how can you call a country the size of Isreal out of egypt that does not exist in Egypt.
Hosea 11:1


God's Love for His Rebellious People

11 The Lord says,
“When Israel was a child, I loved him
and called him out of Egypt as my son

How can you call a country out of Egypt ? this is speaking of Jacob not a country

 

[LoAmmi]

how can you call a country the size of Isreal out of egypt that does not exist in Egypt.

Israel refers to the people not the land.

 

[0ptimus]

Israel refers to the people not the land.

now your admitting that his people where called out of Egypt, read it again


Hosea 11:1


God's Love for His Rebellious People

11 The Lord says,
“When Israel was a child, I loved him
and called him out of Egypt as my son.

no where is there a plural here , a child (not children)

called him (not them)

my son (not my sons)

I know Isreal refers to people and the covenant but your not excepting that in this case it refers to Jacob.

You don't see Issiah 53 as a prophesy about Jesus and that is why you and me are debating hosea 11:1. you first said it can not be Jesus this is about isreal as you mentioned (When Israel was a child, I loved him,),

I have shown you many scripture to show you that Israel (the people the covenant), is referred to as a she

So he she can not be true can it, (one of us is wrong, God says do not be double minded.