-
Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.
why do jews reject jesus?
- Thread starter naveed
- Start date
- Status
I've asked you since you posted your list to pick one for me to talk about with you and you keep going off on tangents. I don't understand what you're doing. At some point the only conclusion I can draw is that you are being deliberate in doing this.
Upvote
0
Ok.
Soldiers to gamble for his clothes psalms 22:18 and fulfilled in mathew 27:35-36.
Reading Psalm 22 there is nothing in the text that indicates this is a Messianic prophecy or a prophecy at all. There isn't anything that states it is a future event being described and seems to be describing the life of David who was attacked quite often.
18 (19 in Jewish numbering) states:
They share my garments among themselves and cast lots for my raiment.
Matthew claims this is fulfilled by the soldiers gambling for Jesus's clothes. This seems incredibly contrived. The New Testament states that Jesus was beaten severely prior to the crucifixion, so one would imagine his clothes would be a blood soaked mess. Why do the soldiers gamble for blood soaked and probably damaged garments? Did they dress Jesus in nice, fancy clothes prior to this?
Not that this even matters in the end because, as I stated, nothing in Psalm 22 indicates a prophecy.
Upvote
0
18 (19 in Jewish numbering) states:
They share my garments among themselves and cast lots for my raiment.
Psalm 22:18
New King James Version
18 They divide My garments among them,
And for My clothing they cast lots.
so for once both translations are identical, which should make you realize that original Hebrew text forms pictures in your mind that is why many meanings can come from one picture as of some of the scripts we have discussed already illustrates that.
Bibles do have to be approved you know.
Now do you know what cast lots for my raiment means ? to cast lots means to gamble.
Matthew 27:35-36
New International Version - UK (NIVUK)
35 When they had crucified him, they divided up his clothes by casting lots. 36 And sitting down, they kept watch over him there.
This one looks pretty clear to me but i can not imagine them leaving his robe on if they wanted to whip his bare back, as i believed they did whip his bare back, as the bible says every time you sin you put a stripe on Jesus-es back.
And again this is another prophesy about the crucifixion there are many prophesies in the old testament about the crucifixion and as you know crucifixions on the cross no longer take place, so surely that must tell you The Messiah has been and gone.
Another prophesy about crucifixion (To be crucified with criminals Isiah 53:12 and fulfilled in MARK 15:27-28.)
Upvote
0
I don't believe Psalm 22 is a prophecy at all. I think the writer of Matthew combed though text to make connections to items in the Tanach as he was desperate to justify the death of his messianic claimant, but there is nothing in Psalm 22 that identifies it as a prophecy. It doesn't indicate a future point of time, it doesn't indicate a future person. If you take Psalm 22 and read it without Christianizing it, you would not get a picture of a future person being crucified, but rather a person talking about their life and being attacked on all sides. The way King David was.
What in Psalm 22 shows you that it's a prophecy? You cannot use the text of the New Testament to answer this question.
What in Psalm 22 shows you that it's a prophecy? You cannot use the text of the New Testament to answer this question.
Upvote
0
To be crucified with criminals Isiah 53:12 and fulfilled in MARK 15:27-28 so this to you is not talking about a crucifixion on the cross, its about some one insulting someone and putting them to shame for no Good reason. ?
Upvote
0
The word "crucified" does not appear in Isaiah 53, so I cannot answer a question that starts with a faulty statement.
Upvote
0
ok valid point but what about this is this not a crucifixion either
Psalm 22:16-18
New International Version (NIV)
16 Dogs surround me,
a pack of villains encircles me;
they pierce[a] my hands and my feet.
17 All my bones are on display;
people stare and gloat over me.
18 They divide my clothes among them
and cast lots for my garment.
Upvote
0
The Hebrew text we have would state that it doesn't say "pierce hands and feet" but "like a lion at my hands and feet". The word used, k'ari means like a lion. But I know this is an issue between Christians and Jews due to the sources of text.
That said, there is still nothing in that text you posted that indicates it is a future event.
Am I to believe that you think the entirety of Psalm 22 is Jesus speaking?
Upvote
0
Well to be honest with you i am only going off what my translations are saying, i know you have already shown your English translation of this text but English translation of original Hebrew text like i told you can form many picture in the translators mind.
To be honest with you i don't think it matters how he died but to go to the extremes that they went to try and pull the wool over everyone's eyes would take a mastermind. have you read the great i am texts, even paul (saul) who was a Jew from the tribe Benjamen by birth believed in Jesus in the end, (he was a former teacher of the )law
Upvote
0
I don't believe Paul. I don't believe he was a teacher of the Torah either. A Jew converting to Christianity doesn't convince me.
What do you mean try to pull the wool over everyone's eyes? Do you have any idea how many were crucified in the Roman empire? It was their torture method of choice for those who opposed the state. In fact, a lot of the New Testament goes to great pains to show that Jesus didn't oppose the Roman state even though he was killed in the same way that those convicted of sedition were killed.
Upvote
0
I mean all the scripts they all had line up with the old testament, . like these two prophesies,, To born in Bethlehem Micah 5:2 and fulfilled in Mathew 2:2:1-6 and Luke 2:1-20
To born of a virgin Isiah 7:14 and fulfilled in Mathew 1:18-25.
Jesus to have line up all these scripture up deceivingly, liers always slip up, so he would have had to be a mastermind and remember every lie, because the way your putting it is every word in the new testament is a lie, and when you read all of it it is pretty convincing. and would he go to his own death if he was just a man
Upvote
0
Actually, there's a good question if Jesus was born in the correct Bethlehem but that's a completely different argument.
Isaiah 7 is not about the Messiah being born of a virgin. Period. It is abusing the text so much to make it about a virgin birth of Messiah that the text should file a restraining order.
When the Jews were being lead to their death in Nazi Germany, most of the time there was no resistance. They would go singing the most important Jewish prayer the Shema. I don't think he had much of a choice about going to his death.
Upvote
0
well this translation woul suggest other wise
Isaiah 7:14
King James Version (KJV)
14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.
Have you got other that suggest other wise
Isaiah 7:14
King James Version (KJV)
14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.
Have you got other that suggest other wise
Upvote
0
As I have said, you cannot take one sentence, stand it alone, and claim victory. Please post the entirety of Isaiah 7 and we will discuss it.
Upvote
0
This is a prophesy what need is there to show more text ? so what way have the Jews got of knowing that this prophesy has not been fulfilled,
Upvote
0
The prophecy was fulfilled in the lifetime of King Ahaz, the man Isaiah was talking to. If the prophecy is referring to a child born hundreds of years later when King Ahaz was long dead and the sign would do him no good.
Upvote
0
- Status
Similar threads
