Why didn't Yeshua tell Saul to repent?

[Lulav]

In the book of Acts

Paul said this to Areopagus

17:30 "Therefore having overlooked the times of ignorance, God is now declaring to men that all people everywhere should repent, 31 because He has fixed a day in which He will judge the world in righteousness through a Man whom He has appointed, having furnished proof to all men by raising Him from the dead."

So why wasn't he told to do this and why didn't he ever say he did?


Account #1
9:3 As he neared Damascus on his journey, suddenly a light from heaven flashed around him. 4 He fell to the ground and heard a voice say to him, “Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me?” 5 “Who are you, Lord?” Saul asked.
“I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting,” he replied. 6 “Now get up and go into the city, and you will be told what you must do.”

Account #2

22:6“About noon as I came near Damascus, suddenly a bright light from heaven flashed around me. 7I fell to the ground and heard a voice say to me, ‘Saul! Saul! Why do you persecute me?’ 8“ ‘Who are you, Lord?’ I asked.
“ ‘I am Jesus of Nazareth, whom you are persecuting,’ he replied. 9My companions saw the light, but they did not understand the voice of him who was speaking to me.
10“ ‘What shall I do, Lord?’ I asked.
“ ‘Get up,’ the Lord said, ‘and go into Damascus. There you will be told all that you have been assigned to do.’

Account #3

26:12“On one of these journeys I was going to Damascus with the authority and commission of the chief priests. 13About noon, King Agrippa, as I was on the road, I saw a light from heaven, brighter than the sun, blazing around me and my companions. 14We all fell to the ground, and I heard a voice saying to me in Aramaic,a ‘Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me? It is hard for you to kick against the goads.’ 15“Then I asked, ‘Who are you, Lord?’
“ ‘I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting,’ the Lord replied. 16‘Now get up and stand on your feet. I have appeared to you to appoint you as a servant and as a witness of what you have seen and will see of me. 17I will rescue you from your own people and from the Gentiles. I am sending you to them 18to open their eyes and turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, so that they may receive forgiveness of sins and a place among those who are sanctified by faith in me.’
19“So then, King Agrippa, I was not disobedient to the vision from heaven. 20First to those in Damascus, then to those in Jerusalem and in all Judea, and then to the Gentiles, I preached that they should repent and turn to God and demonstrate their repentance by their deeds.


After all he had done against the Messianic Jews he was not told to repent? I would think that would be the first thing Yeshua said to him.

 

[cyberlizard]

he did tell him how much he would have to suffer though, both no doubt as recompense for his previous actions and as a result of his future ones.


Steve

p.s. I have considered your question before myself.

 

[visionary]

Was temporary blindness Paul's penalty?

 

[Lulav]

he did tell him how much he would have to suffer though, both no doubt as recompense for his previous actions and as a result of his future ones.


Steve

p.s. I have considered your question before myself.

But didn't all the Apostles suffer for their allegiance and spreading of the gospel? And suffering as recompense doesn't make sense if he was not told and did make teshuvah as well as it would mean that he was already judged and sentenced which I thought doesn't happen until Judgement day?

 

[Lulav]

Was temporary blindness Paul's penalty?

See above Vis, and if Yeshua did judge him and make a punishment would three days being blind make up for all the men and women he had killed just for following Yeshua? Surely that was nothing but an inconvenience.

I just don't understand why Yeshua would not have told him to repent instead of was said he said. I would think that would be the very first thing as it was to all others. Then again Paul said regarding the law he was faultless (sinless) so perhaps he didn't think he needed to repent?

 

[Truthfrees]

Great questions.

Ananais was told to lay hands on Paul to receive back his sight, AND to tell him how much he would suffer:

"For I will show him how many things he must suffer for My name’s sake." - Acts 9:16


Paul suffered a lot in his missionary life, in a degree similar to the suffering he caused Yeshua's followers. His suffering included this:

"23 In stripes above measure, in prisons more frequently, in deaths often. 24 From the Jews five times I received forty stripes minus one. 25 Three times I was beaten with rods; once I was stoned; three times I was shipwrecked; a night and a day I have been in the deep; 26 in journeys often, in perils of waters, in perils of robbers, in perils of my own countrymen, in perils of the Gentiles, in perils in the city, in perils in the wilderness, in perils in the sea, in perils among false brethren; 27 in weariness and toil, in sleeplessness often, in hunger and thirst, in fastings often, in cold and nakedness. " - 2 Corinthians 11:23-27

"I have learned in whatever state I am, to be content: 12 I know how to be abased, and I know how to abound. Everywhere and in all things I have learned both to be full and to be hungry, both to abound and to suffer need." - Philippians 4:11-12

These 2 links refer to all of Paul's sufferings: 1. http://www.biblecharts.org/apostlepaulcharts/15 - The Sufferings of Paul.pdf
2. http://www.theologyofwork.org/new-t...itness-acts-20-28/pauls-suffering-acts-20-28/


His repentance is somewhat mentioned here:

"12 And I thank Christ Jesus our Lord who has enabled me, because He counted me faithful, putting me into the ministry, 13 although I was formerly a blasphemer, a persecutor, and an insolent man; but I obtained mercy because I did it ignorantly in unbelief. 14 And the grace of our Lord was exceedingly abundant, with faith and love which are in Christ Jesus. 15 This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am chief. 16 However, for this reason I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might show all longsuffering, as a pattern to those who are going to believe on Him for everlasting life. 17 Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, to God who alone is wise, be honor and glory forever and ever. Amen." - 1 Timothy 1:12-17

 

[Lulav]

The first two times it is said that he told him nothing but to go into the city and there he would be told what he was to do. But to King Agrippa he told him that this Yeshua told him

“ ‘I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting,’ the Lord replied. 16 ‘Now get up and stand on your feet. I have appeared to you to appoint you as a servant and as a witness of what you have seen and will see of me. 17 I will rescue you from your own people and from the Gentiles. I am sending you to them 18to open their eyes and turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, so that they may receive forgiveness of sins and a place among those who are sanctified by faith in me.’
​

An appointment before repentance? That is what just doesn't sound right to me. That would need to be done first.

On Shavuot after Peter spoke the Jewish men said

"Brethren, what shall we do?" 38 Peter said to them, "Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
​

First thing they are told is to repent.

John preached this:

Now in those days John the Baptist came, preaching in the wilderness of Judea, saying, 2 "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand."
​

First thing John tells the people

Before gathering his first disciple Yeshua preached this

From that time on Jesus began to preach, “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven has come near.”
​

Even after the resurrection Yeshua still preached repentance
To the seven churches

To the church in Ephesus write:.4 Yet I hold this against you: You have forsaken the love you had at first. 5 Consider how far you have fallen! Repent and do the things you did at first. If you do not repent, I will come to you and remove your lampstand from its place

To the church in Pergamum write:.....Likewise, you also have those who hold to the teaching of the Nicolaitans. 16 Repent therefore! Otherwise, I will soon come to you and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth.

To the Church in Thyatira..........Nevertheless, I have this against you: You tolerate that woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophet. By her teaching she misleads my servants into sexual immorality and the eating of food sacrificed to idols. 21 I have given her time to repent of her immorality, but she is unwilling. 22 So I will cast her on a bed of suffering, and I will make those who commit adultery with her suffer intensely, unless they repent of her ways. 23 I will strike her children dead. Then all the churches will know that I am he who searches hearts and minds, and I will repay each of you according to your deeds.

To the Church in Sardis..............Wake up! Strengthen what remains and is about to die, for I have found your deeds unfinished in the sight of my God. 3 Remember, therefore, what you have received and heard; hold it fast, and repent

To the Church in Laodicea.........Those whom I love I rebuke and discipline. So be earnest and repent.

It's all about repenting.

 

[Truthfrees]

The first two times it is said that he told him nothing but to go into the city and there he would be told what he was to do. But to King Agrippa he told him that this Yeshua told him

“ ‘I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting,’ the Lord replied. 16 ‘Now get up and stand on your feet. I have appeared to you to appoint you as a servant and as a witness of what you have seen and will see of me. 17 I will rescue you from your own people and from the Gentiles. I am sending you to them 18to open their eyes and turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, so that they may receive forgiveness of sins and a place among those who are sanctified by faith in me.’
​

An appointment before repentance? That is what just doesn't sound right to me. That would need to be done first.

On Shavuot after Peter spoke the Jewish men said

"Brethren, what shall we do?" 38 Peter said to them, "Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
​

First thing they are told is to repent.

John preached this:

Now in those days John the Baptist came, preaching in the wilderness of Judea, saying, 2 "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand."
​

First thing John tells the people

Before gathering his first disciple Yeshua preached this

From that time on Jesus began to preach, “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven has come near.”
​

Even after the resurrection Yeshua still preached repentance
To the seven churches

To the church in Ephesus write:.4 Yet I hold this against you: You have forsaken the love you had at first. 5 Consider how far you have fallen! Repent and do the things you did at first. If you do not repent, I will come to you and remove your lampstand from its place

To the church in Pergamum write:.....Likewise, you also have those who hold to the teaching of the Nicolaitans. 16 Repent therefore! Otherwise, I will soon come to you and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth.

To the Church in Thyatira..........Nevertheless, I have this against you: You tolerate that woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophet. By her teaching she misleads my servants into sexual immorality and the eating of food sacrificed to idols. 21 I have given her time to repent of her immorality, but she is unwilling. 22 So I will cast her on a bed of suffering, and I will make those who commit adultery with her suffer intensely, unless they repent of her ways. 23 I will strike her children dead. Then all the churches will know that I am he who searches hearts and minds, and I will repay each of you according to your deeds.

To the Church in Sardis..............Wake up! Strengthen what remains and is about to die, for I have found your deeds unfinished in the sight of my God. 3 Remember, therefore, what you have received and heard; hold it fast, and repent

To the Church in Laodicea.........Those whom I love I rebuke and discipline. So be earnest and repent.

It's all about repenting.

Agreed. I think that's why he was blind for 3 days, to give him time to fully repent. (Meta-nous - change mind)

I know when I need to change my thinking, mind, heart on something, I need to sit and be quiet and wait for YHWH to show me all aspects of where I was wrong and all things I need to change.

I'm sure that was happening to Paul for those 3 totally dark days in his life.

Paul maybe looks prideful, but King David was accused of the same thing.

Sometimes boldness looks like pride.

Paul had to be bold to endure the troubles he faced as a missionary.

He kept preaching no matter how hard it got.

 

[AlephBet]

See above Vis, and if Yeshua did judge him and make a punishment would three days being blind make up for all the men and women he had killed just for following Yeshua? Surely that was nothing but an inconvenience.

I just don't understand why Yeshua would not have told him to repent instead of was said he said. I would think that would be the very first thing as it was to all others. Then again Paul said regarding the law he was faultless (sinless) so perhaps he didn't think he needed to repent?

Yeshua did not judge Paul, or any other man for that matter. The Father Judged no one. The Son must do what he see the Father doing.

John 5

21 For just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, even so the Son gives life to whom he is pleased to give it. 22 Moreover, the Father judges no one, but has entrusted all judgment to the Son, 23 that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. Whoever does not honor the Son does not honor the Father, who sent him.

John 8

15 You judge by human standards; I pass judgment on no one. 16 But if I do judge, my decisions are true, because I am not alone. I stand with the Father, who sent me.

He stands with the Father, who judges no one. Neither of them judge anyone. Why? To judge others is to judge yourself. In the same manner you judge, you will be judged. God is Love (1 John 4). Love keeps no records of wrongs (1 Corinthians 13).

Do we need to confess to Christ?

John 2

23 Now while he was in Jerusalem at the Passover Festival, many people saw the signs he was performing and believed in his name. 24 But Jesus would not entrust himself to them, for he knew all people. 25 He did not need any testimony about mankind, for he knew what was in each person.

Those who were eye witnesses were coming to be saved. He would not entrust himself to them. He did not need the testimony from them. He already knows. He knew Paul better than Paul knew Paul.

 

[visionary]

Change of heart,.... repentance... must occur... in this Lulav is correct. While it is not stated at the time mentioned in His face to face experience or after... it is later mentioned in a letter to Timothy.

"12 And I thank Christ Jesus our Lord who has enabled me, because He counted me faithful, putting me into the ministry, 13 although I was formerly a blasphemer, a persecutor, and an insolent man; but I obtained mercy because I did it ignorantly in unbelief. 14 And the grace of our Lord was exceedingly abundant, with faith and love which are in Christ Jesus. 15 This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am chief. 16 However, for this reason I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might show all longsuffering, as a pattern to those who are going to believe on Him for everlasting life. 17 Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, to God who alone is wise, be honor and glory forever and ever. Amen." - 1 Timothy 1:12-17

as brought forward in an earlier post. This indicated that Paul saw himself as a repenting soul.

On another note.... Unbelief?? Paul, all those testimonies from believers, does not make you ignorant.

 

[Alithis]

Change of heart,.... repentance... must occur... in this Lulav is correct. While it is not stated at the time mentioned in His face to face experience or after... it is later mentioned in a letter to Timothy.

as brought forward in an earlier post. This indicated that Paul saw himself as a repenting soul.

On another note.... Unbelief?? Paul, all those testimonies from believers, does not make you ignorant.

yup

if repentance is to turn and go the other way .. the lord sure made saul repent !

 

[Dave-W]

Good point Visionary.

IMO Saul already UNDERSTOOD teshuva very well and when presented with clear evidence that his direction and beliefs concerning Yeshua was wrong, teshuva was his immediate response. It did not need to be stated.

 

[Messy]

Well he said immediately: Who are You Lord, sounds like he was convicted. Why do you persecute Me? Why should He also say: You should repent from persecuting Me? I think that's clear. And someone would tell him what to do: repent if he hadn't already done that etc. I think he did, otherwise he'd go on killing people.

 

[Norbert L]

yup

if repentance is to turn and go the other way .. the lord sure made saul repent !

Well he said immediately: Who are You Lord, sounds like he was convicted. Why do you persecute Me? Why should He also say: You should repent from persecuting Me? I think that's clear. And someone would tell him what to do: repent if he hadn't already done that etc. I think he did, otherwise he'd go on killing people.

Just to add to the above, the way I see it, this was Paul's "one thing you lack" moment. The important difference between those two dates in history is Paul began following Yeshua.

 

[ContraMundum]

Read: "Problem with Paul #34- he never taught universal health care, nor did he speak against global warming"

What next?

 

[BukiRob]

Read: "Problem with Paul #34- he never taught universal health care, nor did he speak against global warming"

What next?

Seems to be this kind of thinking about Paul... that he taught against the Torah... NOTHING could be further from the truth.

 

[Lulav]

This has absolutely nothing to do with Paul and torah, yet it is being made so, and some of you constantly accuse about everything being anti-paul.

Please re-read the OP again, it is wondering why Yeshua did not tell Saul to repent. I then gave numerous examples from Yeshua, John, Peter, etc who did tell others first thing to repent.

I gave examples of Yeshua doing this pre-crusifixtion and post resurrection (John- Revelation) and in between Paul says he saw him and in the third telling says he told him directly what he was to do (two previous times he said that he was to go into the city and then would be told what to do ) but in either narrative does anyone tell him to repent.

Ananias tells him to be baptized, does not repentance come first?

 

[BukiRob]

This has absolutely nothing to do with Paul and torah, yet it is being made so, and some of you constantly accuse about everything being anti-paul.

Please re-read the OP again, it is wondering why Yeshua did not tell Saul to repent. I then gave numerous examples from Yeshua, John, Peter, etc who did tell others first thing to repent.

I gave examples of Yeshua doing this pre-crusifixtion and post resurrection (John- Revelation) and in between Paul says he saw him and in the third telling says he told him directly what he was to do (two previous times he said that he was to go into the city and then would be told what to do ) but in either narrative does anyone tell him to repent.

Ananias tells him to be baptized, does not repentance come first?

my comment was in regards to the post I replied to. Additionally, there is and has been since the 1st century (can clearly see this thinking in ACTS) a general misunderstanding of Paul's teaching regarding the Torah.

James specifically says that there were those saying that Paul is teaching against Torah and James says that they (the elders) KNOW this is not so...

 

[chunkofcoal]

When Paul came face to face with the truth, I imagine he didn't need to be told specifically to repent.

 

[Hoshiyya]

It doesn't have to say "he repented" for him to have repented.
It doesn't say he had 2 ears, but chances are he had 2 ears.
Not everything is written down.

Maybe it even was written down somewhere, maybe there is a lost book or chapter on "The Repentance of Paul", that just hasn't survived.

Look, all these questions about Paul ultimately boil down to whether or not he was contradicting God's word by preaching anti-Torah messages or not.

If he was anti-Torah, the people of God have no reason to accept him or his message.
It wouldn't be right to humor his message even a minute.

If he was pro-Torah, the Christians cannot accept him, since they don't want to keep Torah. Only a few would accept Torah if told by God to keep Torah.

The point is the message of his words, and hence the influence they hold, and result of accepting Paul's attributed writings as either "canonical" or "uncanonical". Paul's personal history and personality just do not matter inasmuch as they don't actually affect his message.

If he is pro-Torah, that doesn't make him canonical in and of itself,
but if he is anti-Torah he CANNOT be canonical (for us) - or at least, his writings could not be counted to a canon which happens to include the writings of Moses, or any book of the TNK.