Why did this guy treat me like this and made a mess of me?

[GodBeMercifulToMeASinner]

I know this is off topic, but I just want to point that the alphabet has pagan origins. So that must mean that we're being led astray by any Christians who communicate with us using it...

All the various languages (confusion) came from God after the incident with the Tower of Babel..the various languages came into being ironically due to people disobeying Him. Also, what does the alphabet have to do with offering up strange fire to God and worshipping Him via pagan traditions? Strawman..invalid.

 

[Saucy]

All the various languages (confusion) came from God after the incident with the Tower of Babel..the various languages came into being ironically due to people disobeying Him. Also, what does the alphabet have to do with offering up strange fire to God and worshipping Him via pagan traditions? Strawman..invalid.

What is valid is you are using those verses about strange fire out of context. There's a complete difference between pagan worship and celebrating a secular holiday. Putting up a tree and gifting presents isn't a sin against God. If I bowed down and worshipped the tree and thanked Baal for providing for me, that is what's the sin.

Paul even makes this point in Colossians 2:16-23.

 

[Lost Witness]

Paul even makes this point in Colossians 2:16-23.

I think Colossians 2:16-23 is more focused on Shabbat and other JEWISH holidays?

 

[GodBeMercifulToMeASinner]

For my entire childhood, my family's observance of Christmas did not include a tree or presents. We would focus on the reading of the portions of Scripture of the birth of Christ, sing all the great Christian hymns of Christmas, attend Christmsd services on or close to Chrismas Day, and have a nice holiday meal. That was my Christmas as a child and it was a very spiritually rich time. Oh, and I recall watching some nice Christmas specials/ cartoons. Yes, we can remember Christ's birth every day, but there is something quite special about setting aside an entire day to be joyful with family and remember Christ. As an adult, I do decorate a bit because I like the decorations, but that means very little to me and I can do without it all. Easter even more so. Nothing about those days needs to be commercialized or materialistic, etc. I would encourage the focus to be on Christ, specifically

Now if you don't feel comfortable celebrating that is fine too. I understand that. My comments about superiority are because you are posting some pretty strong things in every thread you have chosen to participate in and you are in essence dissing the rest of us for being " part of the world," simply because we observe Christmas. You are not being very charitable. Maybe you mean well and are zealous, but you are not extending grace to others.

The frustrating thing is that I actually share some of your views about the church, etc, but I can't be on your side or like what you post, because there is such an uncharitable tone to it. More important even than having the right views is having a kind spirit.

I disagree..there’s plenty unbelievers who have a ‘kind spirit’ and endorse many abominable things. Their kind spirit will not save their soul. I get that I may not come off like Joel Osteen, soft and all warm and fuzzy. Until God changes that I can only be myself, He has changed other things. But at times Christ Himself was harsh with people and referred to them as all sorts of terms which I would probably get some ‘warnings’ in my inbox if I were to use towards people. It just goes to show how corrupted and control-hungry manmade corporate religion is.

Grace is only part of it. You’ve really no idea how much grace I show towards others out here I honestly just get so fed up with people attempting to impose Christmas on to me when I told them years ago I want nothing to do with it..yet I always here it is Christians attempting to impose their religion on others. Quite the opposite in my experience. When I tell believers the truth of this manmade and unbiblical tradition I am not shown much grace or charity either and am often met with scoffers, strawmen, contorted verses, and such. Always seemed to me even before converting, only the popular and approved narrative is entitled to grace and anything else, haha, well that’s a whole other story for another day.

But that is good that you are aware of the $cam of manmade corporate religion and CEO modern pastors. I am glad to hear it. Those manmade denominational buildings are surely not the narrow way that few find they are on every street nearly throughout America and they each have their own various creeds and whatnot which is hardly modeled after the first century church. It’s a busine$$ and control mechanism above all. Modern pastors are more concerned with putting butts in the pews and attracting more, rather than encouraging holiness and obedience. You’ll hear all about grace and charity there, until I ask the modern CEO pastor why are we keeping this wicked holiday and adorning this million dollar building with ornaments originated from paganism. I doubt I will be dealt with so charitably. But I am only one butt in the pew, it’s more important to maintain the numbers so that collection plate stays loaded..the feelings of the majority cannot be harmed, lest the modern pastor gets behind on payments for his $70,000 truck and $500,000-$1,000,000 home.

 

[GodBeMercifulToMeASinner]

What is valid is you are using those verses about strange fire out of context. There's a complete difference between pagan worship and celebrating a secular holiday. Putting up a tree and gifting presents isn't a sin against God. If I bowed down and worshipped the tree and thanked Baal for providing for me, that is what's the sin.

Paul even makes this point in Colossians 2:16-23.

Wait so now it is a secular holiday? I thought it was a celebration of the birth of Jesus?

The truth is, it is not a secular holiday at all it originated from paganism and just a few minutes of research into it will make that clear for anyone who doesn’t wish to lie to themselves.

Explain how I am using strange fire out of context? Do you truly believe He finds Christmas acceptable? All the trappings originated out of paganism. Lying to children about a pagan mythical man with godlike power, partaking in gluttony, drunkenness, mass consumerism, instilling children with a sense of entitlement at an early age.

God is to be worshipped in Spirit and truth as per John 4:24..Christmas is a lie. I am honestly surprised so many professing reborn believers keep this Holiday. We are to lose our life to find it, to follow Christ. Not drag the old ways from the pre-conversion days along. What happened to Lot’s wife when she looked back as they left the city? Those whom look back and do not want to leave the old life behind, well..it’s self explanatory really.

 

[LoveDivine]

I disagree..there’s plenty unbelievers who have a ‘kind spirit’ and endorse many abominable things. Their kind spirit will not save their soul. I get that I may not come off like Joel Osteen, soft and all warm and fuzzy. Until God changes that I can only be myself, He has changed other things. But at times Christ Himself was harsh with people and referred to them as all sorts of terms which I would probably get some ‘warnings’ in my inbox if I were to use towards people. It just goes to show how corrupted and control-hungry manmade corporate religion is.

Grace is only part of it. You’ve really no idea how much grace I show towards others out here I honestly just get so fed up with people attempting to impose Christmas on to me when I told them years ago I want nothing to do with it..yet I always here it is Christians attempting to impose their religion on others. Quite the opposite in my experience. When I tell believers the truth of this manmade and unbiblical tradition I am not shown much grace or charity either and am often met with scoffers, strawmen, contorted verses, and such. Always seemed to me even before converting, only the popular and approved narrative is entitled to grace and anything else, haha, well that’s a whole other story for another day.

But that is good that you are aware of the $cam of manmade corporate religion and CEO modern pastors. I am glad to hear it. Those manmade denominational buildings are surely not the narrow way that few find they are on every street nearly throughout America and they each have their own various creeds and whatnot which is hardly modeled after the first century church. It’s a busine$$ and control mechanism above all. Modern pastors are more concerned with putting butts in the pews and attracting more, rather than encouraging holiness and obedience. You’ll hear all about grace and charity there, until I ask the modern CEO pastor why are we keeping this wicked holiday and adorning this million dollar building with ornaments originated from paganism. I doubt I will be dealt with so charitably. But I am only one butt in the pew, it’s more important to maintain the numbers so that collection plate stays loaded..the feelings of the majority cannot be harmed, lest the modern pastor gets behind on payments for his $70,000 truck and $500,000-$1,000,000 home.

Agreed. I don't believe kindness equates to always agreeing or endorsing sins. That is actually the opposite of kindness because you are supporting others in their own destruction. Also, not a bad thing to be unlike Joel Osteen lol. I don't think most of us here have a high opinion of his ministry. I do think there are times that we should speak up and correct, etc. I don't personally subscribe to a belief of easy grace. I guess the difference here is that I feel the issue of celebrating Christmas or Easter is not black and white and you feel it is total paganism. So I see your posts as being divisive over a small matter and you feel it a correction of gross error. So from your point of view, I guess I understand the strong language. And you are right; I don't know how you treat others in your daily life.

My initial post was posted in frustration. I didn't want to see every thread end up in a war over Christmas and Easter. However, it is not my wish to fight with you so I will bow out of this particular discussion. I guess I was hoping to put a stop to the Christmas bashing

 

[Saucy]

Wait so now it is a secular holiday? I thought it was a celebration of the birth of Jesus?

The truth is, it is not a secular holiday at all it originated from paganism and just a few minutes of research into it will make that clear for anyone who doesn’t wish to lie to themselves.

Explain how I am using strange fire out of context? Do you truly believe He finds Christmas acceptable? All the trappings originated out of paganism. Lying to children about a pagan mythical man with godlike power, partaking in gluttony, drunkenness, mass consumerism, instilling children with a sense of entitlement at an early age.

God is to be worshipped in Spirit and truth as per John 4:24..Christmas is a lie. I am honestly surprised so many professing reborn believers keep this Holiday. We are to lose our life to find it, to follow Christ. Not drag the old ways from the pre-conversion days along. What happened to Lot’s wife when she looked back as they left the city? Those whom look back and do not want to leave the old life behind, well..it’s self explanatory really.

You're doing exactly what Paul warned about in the verses I mentioned in Colossians 2.

20 Therefore, if you died with Christ from the basic principles of the world, why, as though living in the world, do you subject yourselves to regulations—21 “Do not touch, do not taste, do not handle,” 22 which all concern things which perish with the using—according to the commandments and doctrines of men? 23 These things indeed have an appearance of wisdom in self-imposed religion, false humility, and neglect of the body, but are of no value against the indulgence of the flesh.

We died in Christ and do not need to subject ourselves to these regulations you are imposing with false humility. There is zero pagan worship that comes with celebrating Christmas. It's a fun holiday where families get together, kids open up gifts, etc. Telling kids about Santa is a fun tradition that they grow out of by the time they turn 10. It's not a lifelong system of false god worship that you're making it out to be.

 

[public hermit]

Wait so now it is a secular holiday? I thought it was a celebration of the birth of Jesus?

The truth is, it is not a secular holiday at all it originated from paganism and just a few minutes of research into it will make that clear for anyone who doesn’t wish to lie to themselves.

Explain how I am using strange fire out of context? Do you truly believe He finds Christmas acceptable? All the trappings originated out of paganism. Lying to children about a pagan mythical man with godlike power, partaking in gluttony, drunkenness, mass consumerism, instilling children with a sense of entitlement at an early age.

God is to be worshipped in Spirit and truth as per John 4:24..Christmas is a lie. I am honestly surprised so many professing reborn believers keep this Holiday. We are to lose our life to find it, to follow Christ. Not drag the old ways from the pre-conversion days along. What happened to Lot’s wife when she looked back as they left the city? Those whom look back and do not want to leave the old life behind, well..it’s self explanatory really.

Here's a tip: Stop derailing this thread with your agenda; it's not about you or your opinions, regardless of their merit or lack thereof. Have some respect for the OP. If you have a point to make, create a thread. These folks have been patiently responding to you, but you are incorrigible.

 

[GodBeMercifulToMeASinner]

You're doing exactly what Paul warned about in the verses I mentioned in Colossians 2.

20 Therefore, if you died with Christ from the basic principles of the world, why, as though living in the world, do you subject yourselves to regulations—21 “Do not touch, do not taste, do not handle,” 22 which all concern things which perish with the using—according to the commandments and doctrines of men? 23 These things indeed have an appearance of wisdom in self-imposed religion, false humility, and neglect of the body, but are of no value against the indulgence of the flesh.

We died in Christ and do not need to subject ourselves to these regulations you are imposing with false humility. There is zero pagan worship that comes with celebrating Christmas. It's a fun holiday where families get together, kids open up gifts, etc. Telling kids about Santa is a fun tradition that they grow out of by the time they turn 10. It's not a lifelong system of false god worship that you're making it out to be.

You’re taking those verses out of context. The whole point there is to illustrate the inconsistency of claiming to follow Christ yet still tied to the rudiments of this world/doctrines of man (pagan holidays, manmade traditions in this case). Christmas = rudiment of the world, doctrine of man. There’s nothing in these passages you post that say to just ignore God’s commandments such as not offering strange fire up, partaking in the ways of the heathens, deny self, worshipping God via pagan traditions. Those scriptures you post more than anything are in opposition to manmade religion/corporate denominationalism and their own manmade decrees/traditions..Christmas being one of them.

By your logic I am good to ‘do what thou wilt’ like Aleister Crowley..does that include fornication, serving mammon/pursuing worldly riches?

So Christmas is a ‘fun holiday’ and lying to children is fun, therefore it’s good with God to celebrate? Hardly denying the flesh and taking up one’s cross as believers are told to do. You are kidding yourself by denying its pagan origins. But we will just have to agree to disagree here: You aren’t going to convince me; nor I you..we both know..if Christ were here in human form today, He would not celebrate this manmade tradition.

 

[GodBeMercifulToMeASinner]

Here's a tip: Stop derailing this thread with your agenda; it's not about you or your opinions, regardless of their merit or lack thereof. Have some respect for the OP. If you have a point to make, create a thread. These folks have been patiently responding to you, but you are incorrigible.

Thank you so much for the tip. Sorry that I am ‘incorrigible’. In other words difficult for adherents of manmade religion or carnally minded to control. Honestly, it is pretty arrogant of you to say. I don’t expect you to conform to God’s truth, but you expect me to conform to your narrative. Let’s just agree to disagree, you’re free to ignore my posts after all.

My ‘agenda’ LOL..it is part of one’s service to God to tell the truth. I’ve no problem if you wish to continue lying to yourself, just don’t expect me to conform to it is all. The OP mentioned she was at a NY party, I told her the truth. Someone else mentioned christmas, I replied. Sorry not sorry if that offends you, it is what it is.

 

[mojoboy31]

That scripture does not justify the keeping of the pagan manmade tradition of Christmas; Deuteronomy 12:4 we are not to worship God via pagan ways and anyone who has done research into the matter can not deny the origin of Christmas is pagan. All these Christmas traditions are derived from paganism.

We are not worshipping via pagan ways. We are setting aside a day to celebrate the gift He gave us.
All of the traditions are pagan? As if pagans have a monopoly on family dinners and gift exchanges? Giving gifts is inherently pagan now?

Nowhere in the scriptures does it say Christ was born during that time of year it is a lie, along with telling children a pagan mythological man with godlike power brings them gifts..God is to be worshipped in Spirit and truth. Christmas was never ordained by God it was ordained by manmade corporate religion.

Who cares what day of the year He was born on? I don't understand why you think that's such a "gotcha!" argument. We can choose to celebrate when we want, and since no one knows for sure what day he was born, December is as good as any other time.
I guess the Wise Men should have realized that bringing Jesus gifts was a bad idea, because it would lead to corporate mythological Santa Claus.

Are you telling me it is not sinful to flat out lie to children and tell them that a fat jolly man with godlike powers brings them gifts? Then once they are older and realize the pagan myth of Santa is a lie..many children who may have occasionally heard Jesus associated with this pagan festival decide for themselves later on Jesus isn’t real either just like the pagan myth of Santa Claus. I have heard nonbelievers state exactly such.

Yeah, no one here is defending acting like Santa claus is real, no one is suggesting we worship Santa, no one has even suggested Santa is a part of their holiday traditions.

Then there’s all the gluttony, drunkenness, mass consumerism, indulgence, and various other sinful aspects. Ask yourself this now, do you believe if Christ was here on earth in human form today would He celebrate his birthday on a day he wasn’t even born on that revolves around gluttony, mass consumerism, lying, drunkenness..or even celebrate His birthday at all for that matter? You’re kidding yourself if you believe He would have anything to do with this, or Paul the Apostle for that matter..we are to emulate their examples not the poor examples of manmade corporate religion and CEO modern pastors.

Because there was absolutely no gluttony or drunkenness in any of the Jewish holidays that Jesus *gasp* participated in, according to the Bible. The Wedding when He turned the water into wine? They ran out of wine, the people were getting so plastered, and Jesus made more. Is that an endorsement of drunkenness? No. Did He condemn the entire concept of weddings or wedding parties because some people like to get a little tipsy and eat too much at the banquets? Also no.

It is the heart that matters here. Are we worshipping santa and just being gluttonous drunks? Because if you are, then you're wrong.
But if you, choosing the day to be holy, and celebrating with loved ones, your church family, or what have you, for a special meal, and or the exchanging of gifts-- I'm sorry, but there is nothing sinful about that. It has nothing to do with paganism unless YOU make it so.

Christmas is esteemed by the world therefore safe to say not so much by God

That logic is broken. Justice, love, and kindness are esteemed the world over. Guess God hates those things then.

 

[Lost Witness]

That logic is broken. Justice, love, and kindness are esteemed the world over. Guess God hates those things then.

Mocking someone isn't good either as he's just doing what he's feeling led to do,
what's wrong with him doing so?
Nobody has to respond?

 

[GodBeMercifulToMeASinner]

Agreed. I don't believe kindness equates to always agreeing or endorsing sins. That is actually the opposite of kindness because you are supporting others in their own destruction. Also, not a bad thing to be unlike Joel Osteen lol. I don't think most of us here have a high opinion of his ministry. I do think there are times that we should speak up and correct, etc. I don't personally subscribe to a belief of easy grace. I guess the difference here is that I feel the issue of celebrating Christmas or Easter is not black and white and you feel it is total paganism. So I see your posts as being divisive over a small matter and you feel it a correction of gross error. So from your point of view, I guess I understand the strong language. And you are right; I don't know how you treat others in your daily life.

My initial post was posted in frustration. I didn't want to see every thread end up in a war over Christmas and Easter. However, it is not my wish to fight with you so I will bow out of this particular discussion. I guess I was hoping to put a stop to the Christmas bashing

I didn’t mean to cause frustration..the OP mentioned she was at a NY party, she could find someone better elsewhere and I genuinely hope she does and am sure she can! Then someone mentioned Christmas to me, I replied. As for my posts being divisive, perhaps they are but it is what it is. Conformity was never my thing even before converting. You guessed it; I am unvaccinated LOL! I was converted well before then though. Christ Himself said He did not come to send peace, but a sword and even cause households to be divided amongst each other.

You are right about grace and charity though. Those are things of God. Not always so easy to deal in such though but I try honestly. I got into a discussion with a professed reborn believer recently who began using vile language and making threats all because they wanted to cling to their pet sins all the while condemning others to hell for their sins, and it isn’t so easy to always have grace and charity as a mortal fallen human dealing with other mortal fallen humans. But I was patient and kept composure with them and I gave them the biblical gospel of faith in Christ’s works, repentance, rebirth from above, striving for holiness/obedience/set apart for God, and endurance to the end. This person thought that their near death experience and alleged visions are the gospel and means of salvation which isn’t the case. A true product of manmade denominational corporate religion.

Didn’t intend for all this honestly, but I am obligated as service to God to be honest entirely. It wasn’t my intention to ‘trash’ these holidays I am only sharing the things I have learned after researching into the matter fairly deeply and testing these holidays to God’s word. But yes I agree, I wish to bow out of this too. I hope that the OP meets a true Christian gentleman and believe that they can do better than what they were willing to settle for that’s all I ever really wanted to get across here until things went another direction, then I am obligated to be honest.

 

[GodBeMercifulToMeASinner]

We are not worshipping via pagan ways. We are setting aside a day to celebrate the gift He gave us.
All of the traditions are pagan? As if pagans have a monopoly on family dinners and gift exchanges? Giving gifts is inherently pagan now?


Who cares what day of the year He was born on? I don't understand why you think that's such a "gotcha!" argument. We can choose to celebrate when we want, and since no one knows for sure what day he was born, December is as good as any other time.
I guess the Wise Men should have realized that bringing Jesus gifts was a bad idea, because it would lead to corporate mythological Santa Claus.


Yeah, no one here is defending acting like Santa claus is real, no one is suggesting we worship Santa, no one has even suggested Santa is a part of their holiday traditions.


Because there was absolutely no gluttony or drunkenness in any of the Jewish holidays that Jesus *gasp* participated in, according to the Bible. The Wedding when He turned the water into wine? They ran out of wine, the people were getting so plastered, and Jesus made more. Is that an endorsement of drunkenness? No. Did He condemn the entire concept of weddings or wedding parties because some people like to get a little tipsy and eat too much at the banquets? Also no.

It is the heart that matters here. Are we worshipping santa and just being gluttonous drunks? Because if you are, then you're wrong.
But if you, choosing the day to be holy, and celebrating with loved ones, your church family, or what have you, for a special meal, and or the exchanging of gifts-- I'm sorry, but there is nothing sinful about that. It has nothing to do with paganism unless YOU make it so.



That logic is broken. Justice, love, and kindness are esteemed the world over. Guess God hates those things then.

I’ll just cut right to the last part..as for all the rest I am done..you’re not going to convince me to embrace your ways, I measure everything to God’s word, His standard not yours is all that matters. You can kid yourself, but not me.

As for the last part..the truth is that God’s ways of love, justice, and kindness are different than those of the non-believers and carnally minded whose versions of ‘love’, ‘justice’ and ‘kindness’ are of their own self righteousness and displayed often for the sake of obtaining some sort of satisfaction with self, or gain. Love is telling the truth, being honest..the world’s version of love is the kisses of an enemy. ‘Justice’ to the world they are not going to like God’s justice at all when the day comes if they are apart from Christ. And a lot of the ‘kindness’ I see these days, well it isn’t genuine at all and is a means of acquiring good social standing. God’s kindness differs from the world. God’s kindness allowed for a sinner to repent. The world’s kindness enables sinners and blinds them from seeking forgiveness.

 

[mojoboy31]

I’ll just cut right to the last part..as for all the rest I am done..you’re not going to convince me to embrace your ways, I measure everything to God’s word, His standard not yours is all that matters. You can kid yourself, but not me.

As for the last part..the truth is that God’s ways of love, justice, and kindness are different than those of the non-believers and carnally minded whose versions of ‘love’, ‘justice’ and ‘kindness’ are of their own self righteousness and displayed often for the sake of obtaining some sort of satisfaction with self, or gain. Love is telling the truth, being honest..the world’s version of love is the kisses of an enemy. ‘Justice’ to the world they are not going to like God’s justice at all when the day comes if they are apart from Christ. And a lot of the ‘kindness’ I see these days, well it isn’t genuine at all and is a means of acquiring good social standing. God’s kindness differs from the world. God’s kindness allowed for a sinner to repent. The world’s kindness enables sinners and blinds them from seeking forgiveness.

I'm not trying to convince you to embrace my ways, you have your beliefs and i respect that. What I'm trying to convince you to do, is be more gentle with people who disagree with you on these debatable issues. Jumping into any discussion, no matter the context, and blasting people for pagan worship, really not going to get you very far. Proverbs tells us that the wise weigh their words carefully, and also that the lips of the wise makes knowledge acceptable.
Sometimes it isn't what we say, it's how we say it, when we say it, why we say it. You might be 100 percent right, but acting like a pharisee isn't going to get you very far.

The entire point of my post though, different things mean different things to different people. While I might view Christmas as a pure thing, you might not.
The world has different definitions for those words, but they are revered nonetheless. You understand the concept that the world corrupts things, but the truth still has value-- you are able to separate the world from the Truth, and still appreciate the thing the world tries to twist and taint.

For us, Christmas is the same. The world might view it as a commercial, gluttonous, drunkard thing. But that's not how we view it when we celebrate Christ's birth.

 

[Citanul]

I didn’t mean to cause frustration..the OP mentioned she was at a NY party

She didn't actually say that. It sounds like it was one, but the way she phrased her post makes it a bit ambiguous. Even so, there was no need to open your post questioning her faith (which is against the site rules) and then go on a diatribe that had nothing to do with what she was asking about. If you don't want to cause frustration, stick to the thread topic rather than inject your personal views in a forceful manner.

 

[linux.poet]

@raquellexxx

I don't think that where you meet a romantic partner has too much indication of the quality of the relationship. However, the fact the two of you were at a New Years party probably explains this guy's behavior in another way. He's on audition in front of everyone and multiple people were putting pressure on him. You mentioned that you are shy and socially anxious - well, this guy probably is too. Your heart hurts for him because you know what he's feeling.

If you meet this man again, I would try to give him another chance. He may be a womanizing punk who was putting on a fake show of interest in you for his friends, but he also may be a nervous guy who genuinely likes you who said the wrong thing at the wrong time (or said the "wrong" thing to appease his friends and avoid them making fun of him for his new crush). Putting him in a different context will show his true colors.

My suggestion: take him out for a walk around town. If he actually likes you, he will act interested again. If not, then he is an awful and manipulative human being, to which you should likely follow the example of his previous woman and ghost him forever.

That scripture does not justify the keeping of the pagan manmade tradition of Christmas; Deuteronomy 12:4 we are not to worship God via pagan ways and anyone who has done research into the matter can not deny the origin of Christmas is pagan.

Gentile believers in Christ are not required to keep the Law of Moses, including that instruction. I refer you to Acts 15, and encourage you to read the whole chapter.

Some men came down from Judea and began teaching the brothers, “Unless you are circumcised according to the custom of Moses, you cannot be saved.” 2 And after Paul and Barnabas had a heated argument and debate with them, the brothers determined that Paul and Barnabas and some others of them should go up to Jerusalem to the apostles and elders concerning this issue. 3 Therefore, after being sent on their way by the church, they were passing through both Phoenicia and Samaria, describing in detail the conversion of the Gentiles, and they were bringing great joy to all the brothers and sisters. 4 When they arrived in Jerusalem, they were received by the church, the apostles, and the elders, and they reported all that God had done with them. 5 But some of the sect of the Pharisees who had believed stood up, saying, “It is necessary to circumcise them and to direct them to keep the Law of Moses.”

6 The apostles and the elders came together to look into this matter. 7 After there had been much debate, Peter stood up and said to them, “Brothers, you know that [f]in the early days God made a choice among you, that by my mouth the Gentiles would hear the word of the gospel and believe. 8 And God, who knows the heart, testified to them giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He also did to us; 9 and He made no distinction between us and them, cleansing their hearts by faith. 10 Since this is the case, why are you putting God to the test by placing upon the neck of the disciples a yoke which neither our forefathers nor we have been able to bear? 11 But we believe that we are saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus, in the same way as they also are.”

12 All the people kept silent, and they were listening to Barnabas and Paul as they were relating all the signs and wonders that God had done through them among the Gentiles.

and they sent this letter with them:

“The apostles and the brothers who are elders, to the brothers and sisters in Antioch, Syria, and Cilicia who are from the Gentiles: Greetings.

24 Since we have heard that some of our number to whom we gave no instruction have confused you by their teaching, upsetting your souls, 25 it seemed good to us, having become of one mind, to select men to send to you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul, 26 men who have risked their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. 27 Therefore, we have sent Judas and Silas, who themselves will also report the same things by word of mouth. 28 For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us to lay upon you no greater burden than these essentials: 29 that you abstain from things sacrificed to idols, from blood, from things strangled, and from acts of sexual immorality; if you keep yourselves free from such things, you will do well. Farewell.”

Therefore, since there is no idol worship being committed at the party (nothing was being burned up), no animals were strangled, no blood was drunk, and no sexual immorality was committed, may this Christian woman be free from guilt. Further, the Lord has made clear what the penalties are for violating the Law:

15 “But it shall come about, if you do not obey the Lord your God, to be careful to follow all His commandments and His statutes which I am commanding you today, that all these curses will come upon you and overtake you:

16 “Cursed will you be in the city, and cursed will you be in the country.

17 “Cursed will be your basket and your kneading bowl.

18 “Cursed will be the children of your womb, the [r]produce of your ground, the newborn of your herd, and the offspring of your flock.

19 “Cursed will you be when you come in, and cursed will you be when you go out.

20 “The Lord will send against you curses, panic, and rebuke, in everything you undertake to do, until you are destroyed and until you perish quickly, on account of the evil of your deeds, because you have abandoned Me. 21 The Lord will make the plague cling to you until He has eliminated you from the land where you are entering to take possession of it. 22 The Lord will strike you with consumption, inflammation, fever, feverish heat, and with [t]the sword, with blight, and with mildew, and they will pursue you until you perish. 23 The heaven which is over your head shall be bronze, and the earth which is under you, iron. 24 The Lord will make the rain of your land powder and dust; from heaven it shall come down on you until you are destroyed.

25 “The Lord will cause you to be defeated by your enemies; you will go out one way against them, but you will flee seven ways from their presence, and you will be an example of terror to all the kingdoms of the earth. 26 Your dead bodies will serve as food for all birds of the sky and for the animals of the earth, and there will be no one to frighten them away.

27 “The Lord will strike you with the boils of Egypt and with tumors, the festering rash, and with scabies, from which you cannot be healed. 28 The Lord will strike you with insanity, blindness, and with confusion of mind; 29 and you will be groping about at noon, just as a person who is blind gropes in the darkness, and you will not be successful in your ways; but you will only be oppressed and robbed all the time, with no one to save you. 30 You will betroth a woman, but another man will violate her; you will build a house, but you will not live in it; you will plant a vineyard, but you will not make use of its fruit. 31 Your ox will be slaughtered before your eyes, but you will not eat of it; your donkey will be snatched away from you, and will not be restored to you; your sheep will be given to your enemies, and you will have no one to save you. 32 Your sons and your daughters will be given to another people, while your eyes look on and long for them constantly; but there will be nothing you can do. 33 A people whom you do not know will eat the produce of your ground and every product of your labor, and you will never be anything but oppressed and mistreated continually. 34 You will also be driven insane by the sight of what you see. 35 The Lord will strike you on the knees and thighs with severe boils from which you cannot be healed, and strike you from the sole of your foot to the top of your head. 36 The Lord will bring you and your king, whom you appoint over you, to a nation that neither you nor your fathers have known, and there you shall serve other gods, made of wood and stone. 37 And you will become an object of horror, a song of mockery, and an object of taunting among all the peoples where the Lord drives you.

38 “You will bring out a great amount of seed to the field, but you will gather in little, because the locust will devour it. 39 You will plant and cultivate vineyards, but you will neither drink of the wine nor bring in the harvest, because the worm will eat it. 40 You will have olive trees throughout your territory but you will not anoint yourself with the oil, because your olives will drop off prematurely. 41 You will father sons and daughters but they will not remain yours, because they will go into captivity. 42 The cricket will take possession of all your trees and the produce of your ground. 43 The stranger who is among you will rise above you higher and higher, and you will go down lower and lower. 44 He will lend to you, but you will not lend to him; he will be the head, and you will be the tail.

45 “So all these curses shall come upon you and pursue you and overtake you until you are destroyed, because you would not obey the Lord your God by keeping His commandments and His statutes which He commanded you. 46 And they will become a sign and a wonder against you and your descendants forever.

47 “Since you did not serve the Lord your God with joy and a cheerful heart, in gratitude for the abundance of all things, 48 you will serve your enemies whom the Lord will send against you, in hunger, thirst, nakedness, and devoid of all things; and He will put an iron yoke on your neck until He has destroyed you.

49 “The Lord will bring a nation against you from far away, from the end of the earth, as the eagle swoops down; a nation whose language you will not understand, 50 a nation with a defiant attitude, who will have no respect for the old, nor show favor to the young. 51 Furthermore, it will eat the offspring of your herd and the produce of your ground until you are destroyed; a nation that will leave you no grain, new wine, or oil, nor the newborn of your cattle or the young of your flock, until they have eliminated you. 52 And it will besiege you in all your towns until your high and fortified walls in which you trusted come down throughout your land, and it will besiege you in all your towns throughout your land which the Lord your God has given you. 53 Then you will eat the offspring of your own body, the flesh of your sons and of your daughters whom the Lord your God has given you, during the siege and the hardship by which your enemy will oppress you. 54 The man who is refined and very delicate among you will be hostile toward his brother, toward the wife he cherishes, and toward the rest of his children who are left, 55 so that he will not give even one of them any of the flesh of his children which he will eat, since he has nothing else left, during the siege and the hardship by which your enemy will oppress you in all your towns. 56 The refined and delicate woman among you, who would not venture to set the sole of her foot on the ground because of her delicateness and tenderness, will be hostile toward the husband she cherishes and toward her son and daughter, 57 and toward her afterbirth that comes from between her legs, and toward her children to whom she gives birth, because she will eat them secretly for lack of anything else, during the siege and the hardship with which your enemy will oppress you in your towns.

58 “If you are not careful to follow all the words of this Law that are written in this book, to fear this honored and awesome name, the Lord your God, 59 then the Lord will bring extraordinary plagues on you and your descendants, severe and lasting plagues, and miserable and chronic sicknesses. 60 And He will bring back on you every disease of Egypt of which you were afraid, and they will cling to you. 61 Also every sickness and every plague, which are not written in the book of this Law, the Lord will bring on you until you are destroyed. 62 Then you will be left few in [bd]number, whereas you were as numerous as the stars of heaven, because you did not obey the Lord your God. 63 And it will come about that, just as the Lord rejoiced over you to be good to you, and make you numerous, so will the Lord rejoice over you to wipe you out and destroy you; and you will be torn away from the land which you are entering to possess. 64 Furthermore, the Lord will scatter you among all the peoples, from one end of the earth to the other; and there you will serve other gods, made of wood and stone, which you and your fathers have not known. 65 Among those nations you will find no peace, and there will be no resting place for the sole of your foot; but there the Lord will give you a trembling heart, failing of eyes, and despair of soul. 66 So your lives will be hanging in doubt before you; and you will be terrified night and day, and have no assurance of your life. 67 In the morning you will say, ‘If only it were evening!’ And at evening you will say, ‘If only it were morning!’ because of the terror of your heart which you fear, and the sight of your eyes which you will see. 68 And the Lord will bring you back to Egypt in ships, by the way about which I said to you, ‘You will never see it again!’ And there you will offer yourselves for sale to your enemies as male and female slaves, but there will be no buyer.”

As long as this list of curses is, getting mixed signals and possibly getting emotionally manipulated by a guy isn't on this list. Therefore this young woman isn't being disciplined by the Lord. Further, in assuming that the Lord is punishing this woman for wrongdoing, you are acting like Job's friends, who assumed that his calamity was caused by a sin that he had committed. The Lord rebuked them for their misdeeds:

7 It came about after the Lord had spoken these words to Job, that the Lord said to Eliphaz the Temanite, “My wrath is kindled against you and against your two friends, because you have not spoken of Me what is trustworthy, as My servant Job has. 8 Now therefore, take for yourselves seven bulls and seven rams, and go to My servant Job, and offer up a burnt offering for yourselves, and My servant Job will pray for you. For I will accept him so as not to do with you as your foolishness deserves, because you have not spoken of Me what is trustworthy, as My servant Job has.”

I would encourage you to reread the book of Job before you proceed with your argument.

 

[GodBeMercifulToMeASinner]

I'm not trying to convince you to embrace my ways, you have your beliefs and i respect that. What I'm trying to convince you to do, is be more gentle with people who disagree with you on these debatable issues. Jumping into any discussion, no matter the context, and blasting people for pagan worship, really not going to get you very far. Proverbs tells us that the wise weigh their words carefully, and also that the lips of the wise makes knowledge acceptable.
Sometimes it isn't what we say, it's how we say it, when we say it, why we say it. You might be 100 percent right, but acting like a pharisee isn't going to get you very far.

The entire point of my post though, different things mean different things to different people. While I might view Christmas as a pure thing, you might not.
The world has different definitions for those words, but they are revered nonetheless. You understand the concept that the world corrupts things, but the truth still has value-- you are able to separate the world from the Truth, and still appreciate the thing the world tries to twist and taint.

For us, Christmas is the same. The world might view it as a commercial, gluttonous, drunkard thing. But that's not how we view it when we celebrate Christ's birth.

Being gentle on sin is why the ‘church’ so-called these days is the total mess it is and as a result continues to blur the lines between the church so-called and the world when the ecclesia is to be set apart.

You’re basically saying that it is wrong to call it like it is, and coddling a person’s feelings are more important than the standard laid out for us in God’s word. Being gentle on sin is a product of manmade denominational corporate religion and modern CEO pastors who’s primary objective is to increase the amount of backsides in the pews and they do so by coddling sin. It is a business model rather than a set apart ecclesia. As a result the modern pastors lead their flock to a false Christ and accursed gospel which saves no one. Seems they each have their own version of the gospel which varies from building to building, denomination to denomination.

Was Paul out of line when he said to not even eat amongst professed believers living in sin? Was Christ being gentle when He chased the moneychangers from the temple with a makeshift cat-o-nine-tails type device? Or referring to people as children of the devil? Vipers? Speaking of which, how would He react to those whom generate their comfortable, cushy, worldly lifestyle off the faith itself like modern CEO pastors if He responded the way He did to people merely selling everyday goods at the temple? Why should I be held to a higher standard than Paul, or Christ, and come across as a mushy, soft, feminized man like a Joel Osteen or Steven Furtik modern CEO pastor type? Both of whom are willing to compromise on sin..cuz feelings. Cuz butts in the seats. Cuz money. Softness on sin is not biblical it is a business model.

I knew it was only a matter of time before someone threw in a ‘pharisee’ accusation. Funnily enough you do so right after a sentence in which you scold me for how I say things, sorry I couldn’t help but notice. I get it, really I do..the popular narrative must be addressed very delicately and anyone doing so must tip toe over egg shells, any opposition to the authorized narrative the same courtesy does not apply. Do as I say, not as I do. That is actually what pharisees did..placing manmade commandments upon men which they themselves did not uphold. And ironically, pharisees were the ones whom honored traditions of man (Christmas anyone?) and other extra biblical systems of their own, while here I do the opposite and call out such for what they are. Pharisees prided themselves on their religious practices and public displays of religionism..much like the people in the denominational buildings today, or the person who puts up a manger in their yard with a false baby Jesus, or the person with the bumper sticker on their car which proclaims ‘keep Christ in Christmas..they refer to these denominational services as ‘worship‘ when it just isn’t so..true worship is how you live your life every day and seeking to do so in a manner which pleases God.

The truth is, it really does not matter what different things mean to you, or I, or anyone else. It doesn’t matter one bit how you, or I, or anyone else see things. There’s only one view that matters when it is all said and done. How do you think God views Christmas? Let’s have a look at His word to get an idea. Not the business model of manmade corporate religion, not the feelings and opinions of mortal fallen humans. Let only God be true, every man a liar.

God is against the use of pagan practices being implemented to worship Him. (Deuteronomy 12:29-31). Anyone still in denial needs to research the origins of all these Christmas traditions, decorations, etc..none of which are biblical.

God calls for us to separate from the world and not have communion with infidels
(2 Corinthians 6:14-18) and the majority of those whom partake in Christmas are indeed infidels. Christmas is even becoming popular in China, you’d be hard-pressed to find a more antichrist nation.

God killed people for offering up strange fire, (Leviticus 10:1-7) and anyone whom has done the research cannot deny Christmas as such..throwing a baby Jesus in with pagan manmade traditions not ordained by God.

God rejected Cain’s worship because his offering suffered from God’s command (Genesis 4:7). You think He accepts Christmas because of how you view it? Doesn’t matter how mortal humans view things.

God seeks true worshippers whom worship Him in Spirit and truth (John 4:24). Christmas is a lie..Christ was not born December 25th but many pagan false gods WERE born around that time of the winter solstice. Christmas involves lying to children about the pagan myth of Santa Claus.

God calls for us to embrace His ways; and hate false ways (Psalms 119:128) Again, Christmas is a manmade lie rooted in paganism. Not ordained by God but ordained by manmade corporate religion as well as secular humanism.

God condemns loving pleasure more than Him (2 Timothy 3:4). And that is why virtually all keep this holiday..they obtain pleasure from it, and refuse to be honest with themselves and hold on to it..what is really more important? Traditions of man, or our Lord? It doesn’t matter how mortal people feel about something. What matters is how God sees it.

We are to put away youthful lusts
(2 Timothy 2:22)

God looks down upon anything that differs from His word and sees it as dark ignorance (Isaiah 8:20).

Anything esteemed by the world (Christmas) is an abomination to God (Luke 16:15).

Christmas is a tradition of man practiced by many whom only honor God with their lips, if at all (Mark 7:6-7).

God condemns bringing any item of false religion into our homes (Deuteronomy 7:25-26).

God forbids adopting practices of unbelievers around us (Leviticus 18:1-4). How many people who celebrate this holiday in America are truly reborn believers set apart for God?

God desires us to give up things which we may hold dear in order to show our love for Him (Matthew 10:37-39).

We’ve all heard the tacky Christmas song lyrics ‘peace on earth blah blah blah’ Jesus did not come to bring about peace but a divisive sword (Matthew 10:34).

Breaks the 10th commandment by fostering covetousness in children from a young age (Exodus 20:17)

True followers of God will not follow the multitude (Exodus 23:2).

Many sources point to what is today known as Christmas originating from the worship of pagan sun gods (who were supposedly born around the date of Dec 25, not Christ) and sun worship. And since there is absolutely nothing in the scripture to go off of, because it is not ordained by God..I have to go by encyclopedias and what not. Since it is a manmade tradition.

It becomes quite obvious to anyone willIng to study to show themselves approved that Christmas is not any liberty issue such as the Jewish holy days being referenced in Romans 14:6, that liberty does not apply to pagan holidays. If it does, where does that liberty end? Do I have the liberty to commit fornication? Murder? Blasphemy? Modern CEO pastors often cite that verse out of context as justification for keeping the pagan manmade traditions of Christmas. Many of them are likely aware of what Christmas really is, but it would hurt their bottom line to do away with it..those $70,000 trucks, large collection of top of the line suits, and expensive houses/properties aren’t going to pay for themselves!!

Now here is my offer..if someone can point me to the books, chapters, and verses which suggest this holiday is ordained by God and not man, and encourages us to celebrate the birth of Jesus via the undeniable pagan oriented trappings of Christmas, I will repent and I will celebrate it with you next year. But based on observations out in the world, research I have done, and testing to God’s word rather than anyone else’s own personal feelings, it is clearly sin. Regardless of how anyone feels about it. Do you honestly believe that God views Christmas as a pure thing? It’s origins are clearly rooted in paganism and anyone who is willing to spend even a measly 20 minutes researching into it can see that..just have to be willing to unplug from the modern pastor and denominational hive mind and quit lying to oneself.

Sorry, but ‘Christmas’ is not some thing which the world corrupted. That just isn’t so. It was corrupt and ungodly from the start. The truth is that what is now celebrated as Christmas originated via paganism. All the traditions associated with it from the tree, decorations, mass consumerism, gift giving with expectations of things in return, the self-righteous Christmas ‘spirit’, and more..none of it is biblical or God honoring. God is probably the least honored of all on this holiday..it’s all about spoiling children, mass consumerism, partying, etc..maybe a brief bit of lip service is paid by some. It was only centuries later the powers that be attempted to clean up this pagan festival by throwing Christ into the mix, attempting to join light with darkness..build fellowship between pagans and christians, which is unbiblical. It just goes to show how far back the corruption of manmade religion is..how deep the rot truly is.

Now, all that said..I will ask again..if Christ was here today on earth in human form, would he be celebrating Christmas? Would He be decking the halls with boughs of holly? Ringing silver bells? Lying to children about a fat man in a jolly suit whom usurps prestige over Jesus Himself on this day? Would He be in the pews at the manmade denominational buildings putting money in the CEO modern pastor’s collection plate at the Christmas Eve service? No, He wouldn’t. You’re lying to yourself if you claim so. So is it wise for His professed followers to be?

 

[GodBeMercifulToMeASinner]

She didn't actually say that. It sounds like it was one, but the way she phrased her post makes it a bit ambiguous. Even so, there was no need to open your post questioning her faith (which is against the site rules) and then go on a diatribe that had nothing to do with what she was asking about. If you don't want to cause frustration, stick to the thread topic rather than inject your personal views in a forceful manner.

I was unaware of her faith, from what I know anyone can post here, not just christians so how am I to know I didn’t see anything on her profile. It did need to be asked if she was Christian..because one is not very likely at all to find a Godly partner at a party for a pagan holiday and Christians are not to be unequally yoked with unbelievers, she needs a believer as a partner.

So that is why I asked..I was not trying to say she was not a believer..I honestly didn’t know either way which is why I asked and if that is against the rules that’s pretty ridiculous. But it was likely just you trying to frame things a certain way. That’s all I seem to be getting here, attack the messenger, because the message cannot be reasonably and biblically refuted. When am I going to get some of this gentleness I am being told all about here? LOL. not that it matters to me but I have gotten a lot of assumptions, mocking, scoffing, name calling (pharisee), being framed a certain way and false accusations as you just did..I think some here should take their own advice on being gentle tbh.

 

[GodBeMercifulToMeASinner]

@raquellexxx

I don't think that where you meet a romantic partner has too much indication of the quality of the relationship. However, the fact the two of you were at a Christmas party probably explains this guy's behavior in another way. He's on audition in front of everyone and multiple people were putting pressure on him. You mentioned that you are shy and socially anxious - well, this guy probably is too. Your heart hurts for him because you know what he's feeling.

If you meet this man again, I would try to give him another chance. He may be a womanizing punk who was putting on a fake show of interest in you for his friends, but he also may be a nervous guy who genuinely likes you who said the wrong thing at the wrong time (or said the "wrong" thing to appease his friends and avoid them making fun of him for his new crush). Putting him in a different context will show his true colors.

My suggestion: take him out for a walk around town. If he actually likes you, he will act interested again. If not, then he is an awful and manipulative human being, to which you should likely follow the example of his previous woman and ghost him forever.

Gentile believers in Christ are not required to keep the Law of Moses, including that instruction. I refer you to Acts 15, and encourage you to read the whole chapter.






Therefore, since there is no idol worship being committed at the party (nothing was being burned up), no animals were strangled, no blood was drunk, and no sexual immorality was committed, may this Christian woman be free from guilt. Further, the Lord has made clear what the penalties are for violating the Law:



As long as this list of curses is, getting mixed signals and possibly getting emotionally manipulated by a guy isn't on this list. Therefore this young woman isn't being disciplined by the Lord. Further, in assuming that the Lord is punishing this woman for wrongdoing, you are acting like Job's friends, who assumed that his calamity was caused by a sin that he had committed. The Lord rebuked them for their misdeeds:



I would encourage you to reread the book of Job before you proceed with your argument.

And respectfully, in the most gentle tone, if I may I ask..is it really appropriate to mock? Or is it ok as long as it is ‘gentle’ mocking? You also bear false witness against me..quote me verbatim exactly where here on this thread I said the OP was under discipline from the Lord or under punishment? I did no such thing. That is a lie. Is that ok to make false claims, so long as it is done ‘gently’? All I said was, as a believer, she is not going to exactly have much to choose from as far as Godly men go at a pagan holiday celebration. I said nothing of her being under punishment from God that is a lie you concocted entirely on your own.

It’s good biblical advice. Believers should not be unequally yoked with unbelievers.

You’re really contorting things out of context too. Do the scriptures not say Christ came not to abolish the law, but fulfill it? Of course we are not justified by the law, only Christ..however it seems you’re suggesting we are free to just trample all over the law. The law serves as a means to reveal sin and convict us of sin. A reborn believer will have a desire to strive for holiness and obedience and live a life pleasing to God, regardless of what manmade religion may claim..yet we will fail at times and when that happens a reborn believer will repent and turn away from such rather than continue on in sin. So just throw out the entirety of the law? Are you saying, as a Christian, I don’t have to love God, as Jesus commanded in Matthew 22:37? Is that not part of the mosaic law? Obviously, bearing false witness is ok though.