Why did Paul talk about tongue speaking only in 1 Corinthians?

[Receivedgrace]

Let's see a few quotes. We have already dealt with 1 Corinthians 13:8-10 so you don't have to include that one. What we need to see is a direct statement from Paul to say that the gift of tongues is limited to the Apostolic Age. Unless you can produce a definite quote that says that, there is no way that you can prove that the gift of tongues is not available for today. I am not saying that what we see on Youtube are the genuine example of the same gift of tongues that Paul taught in 1 Corinthians 14. I would see that the vast majority of what we see is fabrication through the flesh because they contradict Paul's teaching.

Now having said that, taking random verses out of context will not prove anything. If Paul meant that the gift of tongues is temporary, just for the Apostolic Age and just a sign gift to support the establishment of the Church, then he would say so in clear statements to that effect. Talking about the tower of Babel is irrelevant, because Babel was all about man's pride and wanting to set up of monument for themselves. The division of languages was God's way of getting mankind to be distributed throughout the world instead of being limited to one place. The meaning of the world "Bab-El" is not "babble". It is the place name that became Babylon, which stands for the seat of paganism. So to link it with the common Charismatic "babble" of uninterpreted tongues shows ignorance in the meaning of Biblical words and place names.

So, let's be having you. Show me where Paul says expressly that the gift of tongues is due to cease at the establishment of the Church and the end of the Apostolic Age. Then what you are saying might have some merit.

The bible does not specifically mention the trinity, yet it is well established and accepted as truth.

Are you confirming what Jesus said in Matthew 13:11-17?

Consider what Jesus said in Matthew 7:21-23.

There are many who are outwardly religious yet do not possess a genuine saving knowledge of Christ. They have in fact changed Christ into what they desire Him to be instead of receiving Him as the bible describes Him.

As a bible student you well know the significance of the rule of first occurrence. Know as well that the Holy Spirit is not involved in anything that is not promised in God's word. The ministry of the Holy Spirit is well defined, again by Jesus, in John 16:7-11.

Religious folks are slow to be convicted about sin, righteousness and judgment. They often find it difficult to accept that their righteousness is a great impediment to them coming to Christ.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

The bible does not specifically mention the trinity, yet it is well established and accepted as truth.

Are you confirming what Jesus said in Matthew 13:11-17?

Consider what Jesus said in Matthew 7:21-23.

There are many who are outwardly religious yet do not possess a genuine saving knowledge of Christ. They have in fact changed Christ into what they desire Him to be instead of receiving Him as the bible describes Him.

As a bible student you well know the significance of the rule of first occurrence. Know as well that the Holy Spirit is not involved in anything that is not promised in God's word. The ministry of the Holy Spirit is well defined, again by Jesus, in John 16:7-11.

Religious folks are slow to be convicted about sin, righteousness and judgment. They often find it difficult to accept that their righteousness is a great impediment to them coming to Christ.

You've sidestepped giving a substantive answer to my direct question. As far as the Trinity is concerned, there are definite indications that there are three persons in the Godhead, even though the word "trinity" is not mentioned. But your argument, in relation to any definite statement about the gifts being temporary, doesn't hold water, because there is a complete absence in the New Testament of any indication that the gifts of the Spirit are temporary. In fact, the Scripture says that the gifts and calling of God is without repentance. What this means is that once God has given a gift, He does not cancel it. Also, the purpose of the gifts is for the building up of the body of Christ and for the common good. It is clear that the body of Christ still needs building up and therefore the spiritual gifts are still needed for that purpose.

You might as well be honest and say that you can't find anything that Paul has said about the gifts being temporary, just for the Apostolic age.

 

[Receivedgrace]

You've sidestepped giving a substantive answer to my direct question. As far as the Trinity is concerned, there are definite indications that there are three persons in the Godhead, even though the word "trinity" is not mentioned. But your argument, in relation to any definite statement about the gifts being temporary, doesn't hold water, because there is a complete absence in the New Testament of any indication that the gifts of the Spirit are temporary. In fact, the Scripture says that the gifts and calling of God is without repentance. What this means is that once God has given a gift, He does not cancel it. Also, the purpose of the gifts is for the building up of the body of Christ and for the common good. It is clear that the body of Christ still needs building up and therefore the spiritual gifts are still needed for that purpose.

You might as well be honest and say that you can't find anything that Paul has said about the gifts being temporary, just for the Apostolic age.

You will not or cannot receive what God has written in His word. No amount of scripture is going to persuade you that tongues in today's church are not of God.

I'll not strive with you over this matter any longer.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

You will not or cannot receive what God has written in His word. No amount of scripture is going to persuade you that tongues in today's church are not of God.

I'll not strive with you over this matter any longer.

Everything we need to know about the gift of tongues is written in 1 Corinthians 14. There is not one reference there or anywhere else where Paul has stated clearly that the spiritual gifts including tongues were limited to the Apostolic period and would cease as soon as the canon of Scripture is finalised. I asked you to provide Scriptural proof that tongues were meant to be temporary, and you have not. I say that the permanence of the spiritual gifts for the whole of the church age is written in Scripture, and that cessation through some decree in heaven is not. Telling me that cessation is written in God's Word is not credible unless you can show me the actual Scriptures that put it in black and white and not some allusion from unrelated verses. So, in the light of that you have decided to give up, then that would settle it then.

 

[Receivedgrace]

Everything we need to know about the gift of tongues is written in 1 Corinthians 14. There is not one reference there or anywhere else where Paul has stated clearly that the spiritual gifts including tongues were limited to the Apostolic period and would cease as soon as the canon of Scripture is finalised. I asked you to provide Scriptural proof that tongues were meant to be temporary, and you have not. I say that the permanence of the spiritual gifts for the whole of the church age is written in Scripture, and that cessation through some decree in heaven is not. Telling me that cessation is written in God's Word is not credible unless you can show me the actual Scriptures that put it in black and white and not some allusion from unrelated verses. So, in the light of that you have decided to give up, then that would settle it then.

Yet 1 Cor 13:8-14 remains a mystery to those seduced by the mystic charms of tongues not of the Holy Spirit.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Yet 1 Cor 13:8-14 remains a mystery to those seduced by the mystic charms of tongues not of the Holy Spirit.

Because the New Testament is the Old Testament revealed, then one needs to delve into the Old Testament to find the link that will more clearly interpret the verses. In my view, the "tongues" described are the world languages that divided the population at the Tower of Babel. In this context, there will come a time when the multiplicity of languages will no longer be needed and when we all stand worshiping the Lord before His throne, we will all be speaking the same language again. As I typed this, I thought of references in the book of Revelation that clearly show what 1 Corinthians 13:8-14 is all about. Therefore basing the interpretation of the passage from an anti-tongues perspective produces a skewed view of the passage based on prejudice, and therefore faulty exegesis, ignoring other Biblical passages, Old Testament and Book of Revelation.

 

[LoveofTruth]

Here is my view.

Acts 18
After these things Paul departed from Athens, and came to Corinth;

2 And found a certain Jew named Aquila, born in Pontus, lately come from Italy, with his wife Priscilla; (because that Claudius had commanded all Jews to depart from Rome and came unto them.

3 And because he was of the same craft, he abode with them, and wrought: for by their occupation they were tentmakers.

4 And he reasoned in the synagogue every sabbath, and persuaded the Jews and the Greeks.

5 And when Silas and Timotheus were come from Macedonia, Paul was pressed in the spirit, and testified to the Jews that Jesus was Christ.

6 And when they opposed themselves, and blasphemed, he shook his raiment, and said unto them, Your blood be upon your own heads; I am clean; from henceforth I will go unto the Gentiles.

7 And he departed thence, and entered into a certain man's house, named Justus, one that worshipped God, whose house joined hard to the synagogue.

The Corinth "church" was mainly in Justus's house, which if you read Acts 18:7, shared a common wall with the synagogue.

Once you are able to see that, you can understand better why Paul only talk about tongues in his Corinthian epistles and how he stated categorically that "Tongues are for a sign, not to believers but to unbelievers".

The Corinth church is the gentile church that is so close to the Jewish synagogue.

You can imagine if I am a Jew who rejects Christ as my messiah, as I visit the synagogue every Sabbath, I will keep hearing gentile believers speaking in actual foreign languages that they have not learnt.

I will recall Isaiah 28:11-12, as Paul cross referenced in 1 Corinthians 14:22, and understood that God is proclaiming judgement to my nation, just like it was for my rebellious ancestors who had to listen to the Akkadian language when they were in exile.

This is something that only Jewish unbelievers would have understood, not gentiles, the latter whom would have thought that that the Corinth church was full of mad believers. (1 Corinthians 14:23).

Although we do read of the believers who had the gifts and of tongues as well

“Therefore they that were scattered abroad went every where preaching the word.” (Acts 8:4 KJV)

and in that chapter they were also filled with the Holy Ghost and Paul also said he spoke in tongues more than all and he went all over.

Also we read of the gifts in Paul's letter to the Romans where he speaks pf prophecy and he says

"“Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us, whether prophecy, let us prophesy according to the proportion of faith;” (Romans 12:6 KJV)

and Holy Ghost would be poured out upon all flesh

“And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:...“For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.” *Acts 2:17, 39 KJV)

Paul also spoke of the gifts being for the whole body (all believers included in this worldwide)

“To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:”

"For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ. 13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. 14 For the body is not one member, but many. 15 If the foot shall say, Because I am not the hand, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body?" ( 1 Corinthians 12:12-15 KJV)

“For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.” (1 Corinthians 1`4:33 KJV)

and Paul's letter applies to all churches everywhere

“Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:”

and Jesus does not say only certain believers in some place will have tongues. He says for all everywhere that believe...

“And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;”

To the Ephesians Paul writes,

“Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.”

we know that a manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man (believer) which includes prophecy and tongues and other gifts as we read

“But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.” (1 Corinthians 12:7 KJV)

and so Peter also where he was spoke of this for believers

“As every man hath received the gift, even so minister the same one to another, as good stewards of the manifold grace of God.” (1 Peter 4:10 KJV)

and Timothy also had the gifts

“Wherefore I put thee in remembrance that thou stir up the gift of God, which is in thee by the putting on of my hands.”

to the Thessalonians,

"Quench not the Spirit. 20 Despise not prophesyings." * 1 Thessalonians 5:19,20 KJV)

I could find more but this is what comes to me for now.

 

[Guojing]

Although we do read of the believers who had the gifts and of tongues as well

“Therefore they that were scattered abroad went every where preaching the word.” (Acts 8:4 KJV)

and in that chapter they were also filled with the Holy Ghost and Paul also said he spoke in tongues more than all and he went all over.

Also we read of the gifts in Paul's letter to the Romans where he speaks pf prophecy and he says

"“Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us, whether prophecy, let us prophesy according to the proportion of faith;” (Romans 12:6 KJV)

and Holy Ghost would be poured out upon all flesh

“And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:...“For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.” *Acts 2:17, 39 KJV)

Paul also spoke of the gifts being for the whole body (all believers included in this worldwide)

“To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:”

"For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ. 13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. 14 For the body is not one member, but many. 15 If the foot shall say, Because I am not the hand, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body?" ( 1 Corinthians 12:12-15 KJV)

“For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.” (1 Corinthians 1`4:33 KJV)

and Paul's letter applies to all churches everywhere

“Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:”

and Jesus does not say only certain believers in some place will have tongues. He says for all everywhere that believe...

“And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;”

To the Ephesians Paul writes,

“Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.”

we know that a manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man (believer) which includes prophecy and tongues and other gifts as we read

“But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.” (1 Corinthians 12:7 KJV)

and so Peter also where he was spoke of this for believers

“As every man hath received the gift, even so minister the same one to another, as good stewards of the manifold grace of God.” (1 Peter 4:10 KJV)

and Timothy also had the gifts

“Wherefore I put thee in remembrance that thou stir up the gift of God, which is in thee by the putting on of my hands.”

to the Thessalonians,

"Quench not the Spirit. 20 Despise not prophesyings." * 1 Thessalonians 5:19,20 KJV)

I could find more but this is what comes to me for now.

How is this addressing the post you are replying to?

 

[LoveofTruth]

How is this addressing the post you are replying to?

I was trying to show that the gifts of the Spirit were not primarily in Corinth but everywhere.

This also addresses the title of this thread and if the gifts of the Spirit (including tongues) were everywhere then it was not just in Corinth and for all the churches right up to today.

There is not a single verse that says the gifts have ceased today.

 

[Guojing]

I was trying to show that the gifts of the Spirit were not primarily in Corinth but everywhere.

This also addresses the title of this thread and if the gifts of the Spirit (including tongues) were everywhere then it was not just in Corinth and for all the churches right up to today.

There is not a single verse that says the gifts have ceased today.

We are talking about Paul specifically, so focus on Paul's epistles.

We are also specifically talking about speaking in tongues, which if you have read the OP carefully, was meant as a sign of judgement to unbelieving Israel.

So just because tongues have ceased when the nation of Israel fell, I was not saying other gifts have ceased. So your conclusion is irrelevant.

 

[LoveofTruth]

We are talking about Paul specifically, so focus on Paul's epistles.

We are also specifically talking about speaking in tongues, which if you have read the OP carefully, was meant as a sign of judgement to unbelieving Israel.

So just because tongues have ceased when the nation of Israel fell, I was not saying other gifts have ceased. So your conclusion is irrelevant.

Tongues have not ceased and no where does it say they have in scripture? Tongues is a sign to unbelievers. But in the Corinthian church it was not just Jewish believers or unbelievers. . There were Gentiles as well. And they would come in Among them as well as well.

Paul said what happened in the Corinthian church which was filled with Gentiles and people from all over, was the same in all the churches if the saints. All the churches of the saints would be not just Jewish believers.

1 Corinthians 14: 33. For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.”

And this epistle written to the Corinthians (which included information about speaking in tongues and the order of the gift ) was for all believers not just referring to a sign to Israel.

As we see in scripture.

1 Corinthians 1: 2. Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:”

Man’s here is some more about tongues to add a different dimension to this understanding.

1 Corinthians 14: 2-6 “ For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries. 3. But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort. 4. He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church. 5. I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying. 6. Now, brethren, if I come unto you speaking with tongues, what shall I profit you, except I shall speak to you either by revelation, or by knowledge, or by prophesying, or by doctrine?”

And if prophesy is still for today and the other gifts then tongues would be as well.

 

[Guojing]

Tongues have not ceased and no where does it say they have in scripture? Tongues is a sign to unbelievers. But in the Corinthian church it was not just Jewish believers or unbelievers. . There were Gentiles as well. And they would come in Among them as well as well.

Why would gentile unbelievers at Corinth understand what tongues represent?

Are you not aware that when Jews in the OT hear foreign languages, they understand it as a sign of God's judgement, aka Isaiah 28?

If you have read Isaiah 28, tell me how you understand what it is saying. If you don't wish to read it, tell me now, and we can move on.

 

[LoveofTruth]

Why would gentile unbelievers at Corinth understand what tongues represent?

If there is an interpretation it can work similar to prophecy where they are judged if all.

I have heard a few testimonies of a man speaking in tongues in a meeting and he was unaware of what he said but the unbelievers sitting there heard and understood.

Are you not aware that when Jews in the OT hear foreign languages, they understand it as a sign of God's judgement, aka Isaiah 28?

It says even for this they would not believe

1 Corinthians 14: 21. In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord.”

Jesus and other believers have done many miracles and wonders abd many still did not believe.

Paul does not quote Isaiah exactly and the situation is not the exact sane. But Paul quoting that Gid used foreign languages to judge and speak to his people is a inspired commentary by Paul.

If you have read Isaiah 28, tell me how you understand what it is saying. If you don't wish to read it, tell me now, and we can move on.

Paul shows that tongues is a sign to unbelievers . And as God used foreign languages for his purpose he can use them today as well. The OT quote was not quoted exactly. Paul paraphrased parts and gives an inspired comment showing that judgement was upon the OT people and the unbelievers also will have a sign as well in tongues. We read that tongues is not as profitable in the meeting unless it is interpreted . But if it is is can be similar to prophecy for unbelievers, unlearned and believers.

1 Corinthians 14: 23. If therefore the whole church be come together into one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those that are unlearned, or unbelievers, will they not say that ye are mad? 24. But if all prophesy, and there come in one that believeth not, or one unlearned, he is convinced of all, he is judged of all: 25. And thus are the secrets of his heart made manifest; and so falling down on his face he will worship God, and report that God is in you of a truth.”

Also, you seemed to ignore the first part of chapter 14 where Paul speak of tongues for the individual edification and before God. This would expand the use of tongues for believers not the unbelievers in this context. Unbelievers are still not in Christ so a sign to them would seem to be convincing them and judging them.

 

[Guojing]

If there is an interpretation it can work similar to prophecy where they are judged if all.

I have heard a few testimonies of a man speaking in tongues in a meeting and he was unaware of what he said but the unbelievers sitting there heard and understood.

It says even for this they would not believe

1 Corinthians 14: 21. In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord.”

Jesus and other believers have done many miracles and wonders abd many still did not believe.

Paul does not quote Isaiah exactly and the situation is not the exact sane. But Paul quoting that Gid used foreign languages to judge and speak to his people is a inspired commentary by Paul.

Paul shows that tongues is a sign to unbelievers . And as God used foreign languages for his purpose he can use them today as well. The OT quote was not quoted exactly. Paul paraphrased parts and gives an inspired comment showing that judgement was upon the OT people and the unbelievers also will have a sign as well in tongues. We read that tongues is not as profitable in the meeting unless it is interpreted . But if it is is can be similar to prophecy for unbelievers, unlearned and believers.

1 Corinthians 14: 23. If therefore the whole church be come together into one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those that are unlearned, or unbelievers, will they not say that ye are mad? 24. But if all prophesy, and there come in one that believeth not, or one unlearned, he is convinced of all, he is judged of all: 25. And thus are the secrets of his heart made manifest; and so falling down on his face he will worship God, and report that God is in you of a truth.”

Also, you seemed to ignore the first part of chapter 14 where Paul speak of tongues for the individual edification and before God. This would expand the use of tongues for believers not the unbelievers in this context. Unbelievers are still not in Christ so a sign to them would seem to be convincing them and judging them.

Since you are not willing to even read and understand Isaiah 28, alright then, we can move on.

 

[LoveofTruth]

Since you are not willing to even read and understand Isaiah 28, alright then, we can move on.

I understand it. You are applying it in a different way.

 

[Guojing]

I understand it. You are applying it in a different way.

You want to explain HOW you understand that chapter?