Why did Jesus need to die?

[-57]

I want to be clear about my statements:

1)According to the Bible I sin when I break God's laws.
2)According to the Bible penalty for sin is death.
3)I will die. To be dead = to pay price for my sins according to the Bible. So, the moment I die I start to pay for my sins. Death = hell. I am in hell paying for all my sins
4)According to Justice I am irredeemable (not deplorable). If God the Father forgives me He WILL rob Justice BECAUSE Justice DEMANDS that I stay dead(in hell) for ever and ever
5)According to the Bible I can not redeem myself from hell/death, God the Father can not redeem me because Justice demands that I stay in hell(dead)/pay price for my sins for ever. God the Father can not rob Justice and still be just. That is why He can NOT just say: "I forgive you, my child". Hands of God the Father are tied.
6) But God the Son(Jesus Christ) can REDEEM me from hell(according to the Bible). ONLY Him. He can redeem me and at the same time Justice won't be robed and Mercy won't be robed.
ONLY Christ can satisfy both Justice and Mercy.

Question: where did God say that in order for Christ to redeem me(take my sins upon Himself) He had to be killed or while He is dead?

Isaiah 53

 

[-57]

No. How does this fact tell me that eternal destruction is something that has a beginning?

That's when the non-believers ETERNAL separation begins.

 

[Alla27]

That's when the non-believers ETERNAL separation begins.

I have a question why does ring symbolize eternity?

 

[-57]

But where did God say that "taking sins upon Christ" is "to be killed/to be dead"?

Once again Isaiah 53

8 He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.

 

[-57]

I have a question why does ring symbolize eternity?

Are you now claiming for people there is no eternity into the future?
If you can't understand eternity in that direction...what can I say?

 

[Alla27]

Isaiah 53

It does not say that Christ takes upon Himself sins of others by being killed or while dead.
To atone = to suffer for sins of others, but where does it say that it is only through being killed or while dead? verse 10 does not claim this.

 

[-57]

It does not say that Christ takes upon Himself sins of others by being killed or while dead.
To atone = to suffer for sins of others, but where does it say that it is only through being killed or while dead? verse 10 does not claim this.

It's pretty simple english.

Present scripture that says Christ didn't have to die for our sins.

 

[Alla27]

Once again Isaiah 53

8 He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.

It does not say here that He had to be killed in order take upon Himself our sins.
It says what happened to Him. He knew long before He was born on earth that He will be tortured and killed but He came anyway because He had and He wanted to save us.
Yes, He decided to save us even though some people will do something horrible to Him. Even there was no escape for Him.
But it doesn't say here that He HAD to be killed, or dead or even tortured by others in order to take upon Himself our sins.

 

[Alla27]

Are you now claiming for people there is no eternity into the future?
If you can't understand eternity in that direction...what can I say?

why does RING symbolize eternity?
I am saying that eternal things are those things that have no beginning and no end. Like ring has no beginning and no end.
May be "eternal punishment" is eternal because it exists from eternity to eternity(ALWAYS). And not because someone will be punished for ever and ever.
Eternal lake. It is eternal because it exists from eternity to eternity. But does it mean that all those who are in this lake will remain in it for ever and ever?

 

[Alla27]

Let's say you are in cave that is full of snakes. I want to save you. All I have to do to SAVE you is to get into this cave and carry you out. I know that while I do this I will be bitten by snakes and may be even killed. So, I got in I carried you I got you out and I saved you. But snakes bit me. I died after. Did I have to die to save you?
Someone can say: "Alla suffered for -57, she DIED for him TO SAVE him" But was it necessary for me to die to save you? If snakes did not bite me I would still save you

 

[-57]

It does not say here that He had to be killed in order take upon Himself our sins.
It says what happened to Him. He knew long before He was born on earth that He will be tortured and killed but He came anyway because He had and He wanted to save us.
Yes, He decided to save us even though some people will do something horrible to Him. Even there was no escape for Him.
But it doesn't say here that He HAD to be killed, or dead or even tortured by others in order to take upon Himself our sins.

Show me a verse that says Jesus didn't have to die....or move on.

1st Cor 15:3 informs us....For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received: that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the Scriptures.

Isaiah 53 is just one of those scriptures.

 

[-57]

why does RING symbolize eternity?
I am saying that eternal things are those things that have no beginning and no end. Like ring has no beginning and no end.
May be "eternal punishment" is eternal because it exists from eternity to eternity(ALWAYS). And not because someone will be punished for ever and ever.
Eternal lake. It is eternal because it exists from eternity to eternity. But does it mean that all those who are in this lake will remain in it for ever and ever?

You do understand that "eternal has several nuances?
Remember this verse?
For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son, that everyone who believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life.

Answer this....believers receive eternal life....does that mean they existed eternally? I think not.

 

[-57]

Let's say you are in cave that is full of snakes. I want to save you. All I have to do to SAVE you is to get into this cave and carry you out. I know that while I do this I will be bitten by snakes and may be even killed. So, I got in I carried you I got you out and I saved you. But snakes bit me. I died after. Did I have to die to save you?
Someone can say: "Alla suffered for -57, she DIED for him TO SAVE him" But was it necessary for me to die to save you? If snakes did not bite me I would still save you

What???? This analogy makes no death concerning salvation.

Show me a line of theology that says Jesus didn't have to die...or move on.

 

[Paul of Eugene OR]

sam
It doesn't matter what I prefer. I only asked you: where does God claim that He is a sinner(He breaks the law) and that He died for His own sin? I wouldn't mind if you just told me that you made it up and that it is not biblical claim.
When I die I will pay price for my own sins. And no other sinner can redeem me. (according to you God sinned). But how can I be forgiven(Mercy of God) that at the same time God would not rob Justice?

Not everything that is true is stated in the bible. Most people, like you, are simply unable to accept this hypothesis. No biggy. You can just go right on thinking of God as being perfectly OK with punishing another person for your sins, regardless of how strange that sounds.

 

[-57]

.

Show me a line of theology that says Jesus didn't have to die...or move on.

 

[Alla27]

Show me a line of theology that says Jesus didn't have to die...or move on.

Did I ever claim that Jesus did not have to die?
Ok, I will ask you this:
I am a sinner. Penalty(price I have to pay) for my sins is death or hell according to the Bible. I will die 100% guarantee. But let's pretend I am already dead(in hell). I am paying price. Why (according to you) does Jesus have to die for my sins if I already died for my own sins?

 

[Alla27]

You do understand that "eternal has several nuances?

No, I don't.
Ring.
Do you remember the ring(symbol of eternity)? no beginning and no end.

Remember this verse?
For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son, that everyone who believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life.

Of course, master scripture.

Answer this....believers receive eternal life....does that mean they existed eternally?

Hmm, do I have any reason to think they did not exist eternally?

I think not.

why not? any particular reason?

what is eternal life? how is it different from immortality?

 

[miknik5]

But why did salvation require a dead body? Why cannot he forgive without first demanding a dead body?

I can forgive without demanding a dead body. Why cannot God?

Because no one can approach the altar on "steps" lest his nakedness be exposed

Yes I understand that you don't understand these spiritual words

 

[miknik5]

No, I don't.
Ring.
Do you remember the ring(symbol of eternity)? no beginning and no end.

Of course, master scripture.

Hmm, do I have any reason to think they did not exist eternally?

why not? any particular reason?

what is eternal life? how is it different from immortality?

Ye are gods .....TO WHOM THE WORD OF GOD HAS COME

that is the only reason
Not that we are gods but because HE has opened the WORD OF TRUTH to those whom HE chooses, these have ETERNAL LIFE

 

[miknik5]

They did not exist eternally. But GOD who knows the end from the beginning foreknew and predestined these in CHRIST to be conformed to HIS IMAGE

But not all are "eating of HIM".

And in fact don't even understand what this means and they take offense by these words

But Peter didn't
In fact when CHRIST said do you also want to l leave?

Peter responded to whom shall I go? You have the WORDS of ETERNAL LIFE

And what did CHRIST respond?

You'll find the answer in John 6