Why did Jesus Leave?

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Your view of reality is wanting, IMO.

So ? That's normal and expected.

 

[SteveB28]

Why wouldn't I or any Christian for that matter? There is clear description of other gods in the Bible and we're clearly told to avoid worshipping them because they only lead to falsehood and evil.

So, you believe that these others are true gods? Where do they dwell please?

 

[SteveB28]

Choosing to stay on the topic of a particular thread is not "evasion", but think whatever you want. It does seem like you enjoy reading into things, your choice of course.

Yes, and I note that you only chose to "stay on topic" once the question became too uncomfortable to deal with.

As I said, speaks volumes.

 

[amariselle]

Yes, and I note that you only chose to "stay on topic" once the question became too uncomfortable to deal with.

As I said, speaks volumes.

Is that what you think? That's interesting. Actually, I realized we'd gone over the subject long enough, and it was unfair to continue going off the intended topic of this thread.

But, by all means, feel free to assume you know my mind and my reasons better than I do.

 

[Albion]

Can't you at least admit that it's likewise could be considered as a ploy to explain as to why we don't see physical appearance of the resurrected Jesus, which would be somewhat a prerequisite for skeptics?

I don't see any reason to say that.

Is the story really enough to believe?

All of his apostles willingly gave their lives rather than deny it. Do you suppose that they'd all do that if they knew that the account we have in the Bible was a lie or even shaky?

The reason I've asked the question to begin with is precisely because it would seem like if indeed the story is made up, there's no way of knowing that it is other than a hunch. So, why would anyone invest effort into such belief or faith beyond pragmatic applications of such faith?

This is a question or challenge that's as old as the Resurrection itself, but the evidence holds up.

 

[Chriliman]

So, you believe that these others are true gods? Where do they dwell please?

No, I believe they are false gods trying be like the One true God.

 

[HitchSlap]

No, I believe they are false gods trying be like the One true God.

What are their names?

 

[Albion]

You think that living forever would have diminished his "triumph over death"?

Yes.

I disagree

OK.

...it certainly would've left no doubt in anyone's mind whether or not he actually triumphed over death.

You're very wrong about that. It would have allowed all manner of doubters to point to theories that they'd come up with that supposedly show that he faked it.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Yes.

Why? Most people believe he died...if he were still around that would be hard to believe lol.

You're very wrong about that. It would have allowed all manner of doubters to point to theories that they'd come up with that supposedly show that he faked it.

I don't think I'm wrong at all...how does one fake being alive for 2000+ years lol?

 

[Albion]

Why? Most people believe he died...if he were still around that would be hard to believe lol.

We all know that he died. The question concerns the Resurrection and the Ascension.

But of course the whole question here is fanciful. No one knows precisely why God decided to have all of this happen as it did, so there's no definitely right or wrong answer to the question we were asked. I gave my opinion, and everyone else is entitled to his own guess. That's all there is to it.

 

[HitchSlap]

No one knows precisely why God decided to have all of this happen as it did, ...

You'd think he would at least log into Twitter and clear things up for you.

Just sayin'.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Would you believe Him now though? Even if He was standing in front of you? Would so many people who reject Him truly believe if He was still among us in the physical sense?

How would we know for sure that He was the same person from 2,000 years ago? Would studies and experiments need to be done?

I think many people who don't believe now, wouldn't change their minds just because there was a physical person to talk with. I think non-Christians would still doubt and would perhaps think He was just another man claiming to be Jesus. After all, we weren't there in person 2,000 years ago, and they doubted Him then too.

I think I would believe...a 2000+ years old Jesus would be rather strong evidence of his claims, especially the supernatural ones.

I think you have a poor understanding of why people don't believe. Quite a large number of us don't believe because of a lack of any real evidence. A living Jesus would change all that.

 

[Ana the Ist]

You'd think he would at least log into Twitter and clear things up for you.

Just sayin'.

When the Cavs thank him for the championship...he can just tell everyone "Thanks, but I didn't really have anything to do with it."

 

[amariselle]

Why? Most people believe he died...if he were still around that would be hard to believe lol.

I thought your earlier point was that if Jesus was still around then it would be less likely that anyone would doubt Him. Why are you now saying it would be hard to believe if He were still around? This is what you wrote earlier:

You think that living forever would have diminished his "triumph over death"? I disagree...it certainly would've left no doubt in anyone's mind whether or not he actually triumphed over death. You certainly wouldn't have people like me who believe that if he existed at all, he certainly died, and didn't rise from the grave.

I also think it would've made his message more "known" as it means a lot more coming from an actual immortal "god on earth" than coming from what appears to be just another religious tome from ancient times.

So, which is it? Do you think it would be easier to believe Him if He were here in person, or more difficult?

I don't think I'm wrong at all...how does one fake being alive for 2000+ years lol?

How do you think anyone would prove that He had been alive for 2,000+ years?

I sincerely think that people would still doubt Him. I think they would turn away and reject Him just as they did when He WAS among them as a man. People haven't changed in that sense, human nature is still the same.

"Because of the miraculous signs Jesus did in Jerusalem at the Passover celebration, many began to trust in him. But Jesus didn’t trust them, because he knew human nature. No one needed to tell him what mankind is really like." (John 2:23-25)

 

[amariselle]

I think I would believe...a 2000+ years old Jesus would be rather strong evidence of his claims, especially the supernatural ones.

I think you have a poor understanding of why people don't believe. Quite a large number of us don't believe because of a lack of any real evidence. A living Jesus would change all that.

Why didn't it change things for so many 2,000 years ago then?

 

[amariselle]

You'd think he would at least log into Twitter and clear things up for you.

Just sayin'.

Yeah, because we all know how trustworthy social media is.

If Jesus was still here as a man and was on Twitter, Facebook, YouTube etc., very few, if any, would believe anything He wrote or did. All kind of videos, pictures and posts can be made nowadays, and they are hardly all legitimate.

 

[Ana the Ist]

I thought your earlier point was that if Jesus was still around then it would be less likely that anyone would doubt Him. Why are you now saying it would be hard to believe if He were still around? This is what you wrote earlier:

I'm not saying it would be hard to believe if he were still around...read my post again.

How do you think anyone would prove that He had been alive for 2,000+ years?

I think you're seriously underestimating how much a living Jesus would change history. Certainly within at least a few centuries someone would get the idea of making a plaster cast of his head. There would be a lot of evidence...not to mention his magic miracle superpowers.

I sincerely think that people would still doubt Him. I think they would turn away and reject Him just as they did when He WAS among them as a man. People haven't changed in that sense, human nature is still the same.

Well there's significantly less magicians, sorcerers, miracle workers and the like nowadays. I think it's important to remember that back then, people like him were on just about every street corner.

"Because of the miraculous signs Jesus did in Jerusalem at the Passover celebration, many began to trust in him. But Jesus didn’t trust them, because he knew human nature. No one needed to tell him what mankind is really like." (John 2:23-25)

Nice story.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Why didn't it change things for so many 2,000 years ago then?

Probably because there were so many like him.

 

[HitchSlap]

Yeah, because we all know how trustworthy social media is.

If Jesus was still here as a man and was on Twitter, Facebook, YouTube etc., very few, if any, would believe anything He wrote or did. All kind of videos, pictures and posts can be made nowadays, and they are hardly all legitimate.

It'd still beat a two thousand year old copies of a book by anonymous authors, yeah?

 

[HitchSlap]

When the Cavs thank him for the championship...he can just tell everyone "Thanks, but I didn't really have anything to do with it."

Right?!
Maybe he was a GS fan, he just couldn't pull the trigger?