Why did Jesus Leave?

[linr05]

Why? What's so virtuous about faith? Why is faith important?

Again, why is the belief without seeing more important than belief with seeing? We don't apply that idea to virtually anything we do in our lives.

Ask Adam & Eve. Despite personal friendship with God, their faith was lacking. They disobeyed a simple Command. All history changed in an instant!

... "why is faith so important?"!

linr05 @ground level

 

[devolved]

Faith isn’t about proving something right or wrong. I believe it’s right for me. And I can share my beliefs, but if you disbelieve, it doesn’t make you right and me wrong. It doesn’t make me right and you wrong. We just have different beliefs. I believe that if more people came to God, they’d live happier lives, but again, this is my belief. You can’t prove what I believe to be untrue, anymore that I can prove to you that it is true.

Sure, and I doubt I or he would have a problem with that. Again, people believe all sorts of strange things that can't be proven true or false. For example, psychic reading. Many have been proven false, but they can make the case that the other ones are fraudulent.

The point being, when it comes to communicating beliefs in a scope of pragmatic understanding, there some sort of pre-requisites for demonstration on a part of those who make the claim.

But, if you can't even provide evidence THAT you believe, needless to say the evidence that your believe is true... how much does such belief should carry in a realm of our society, and why should it be taken seriously?

 

[devolved]

Ask Adam & Eve. Despite personal friendship with God, their faith was lacking. They disobeyed a simple Command. All history changed in an instant!

... "why is faith so important?"!

linr05 @ground level

So, I'm asking you why faith is important and your answer is:

Well, because of the book that I receive on faith to be true and not made up says that there was a guy who didn't take things on faith and it got him into trouble.

I doesn't answer the question. You are merely saying "it's important because the book says so"

 

[linr05]

Again, that seems a bit contrived...saying that something is "spiritual" seem like a contrived idea. Perhaps you may disagree.

I don't want to offend your belief...the problem is that there isn't a coherent way in which Holy Spirit is ever explained...
But my question is precisely about faith. Why would faith be considered a virtue... ? Why faith?

"All that is contained in the written word of God or in tradition, that is, in the one deposit of faith entrusted to the Church and also proposed as divinely revealed either by the solemn magisterium of the Church or by its ordinary and universal magisterium, must be believed with divine and catholic faith; it is manifested by the common adherence of the Christian faithful under the leadership of the sacred magisterium; therefore, all are bound to avoid any doctrines whatever which are contrary to these truths (canon 750)."

As for confusion and heresy: cf. BetrayedCatholics.com please.

linr05 @ground level

 

[Deidre32]

Sure, and I doubt I or he would have a problem with that. Again, people believe all sorts of strange things that can't be proven true or false. For example, psychic reading. Many have been proven false, but they can make the case that the other ones are fraudulent.

The point being, when it comes to communicating beliefs in a scope of pragmatic understanding, there some sort of pre-requisites for demonstration on a part of those who make the claim.

But, if you can't even provide evidence THAT you believe, needless to say the evidence that your believe is true... how much does such belief should carry in a realm of our society, and why should it be taken seriously?

Well, people doubted Jesus when He was right in their midst. So, it stands to reason that you'd have to be convicted by the Holy Spirit, in order to believe. No person will bring you to belief, only God will. I was an atheist when the Holy Spirit was revealed to me, believe that or not...

I had lost all desire to believe and felt God didn't exist when it happened. So, everyone's experiences and paths are different. I can't 'teach' you into faith. No person on earth can.

 

[linr05]

So, I'm asking you why faith is important and your answer is:

Well, because of the book that I receive on faith to be true and not made up says that there was a guy who didn't take things on faith and it got him into trouble.

I doesn't answer the question. You are merely saying "it's important because the book says so"

I don't apologize for having faith.

Adam & Eve may be a fairy tale to you. Live with it. Free will means you can.

Fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom. I pray u learn some. Try looking at a sunset, a landscape in nature, etc. Chaos it is not. Chance it is not. No human made them... Faith...

linr05 @ground level

 

[linr05]

... and we have to largely rely on the story.

Is the story really enough to believe? If we have to believe prior for that belief to manifest, then we can do so with any belief.

The reason I've asked the question to begin with is precisely because it would seem like if indeed the story is made up, there's no way of knowing that it is other than a hunch. So, why would anyone invest effort into such belief or faith beyond pragmatic applications of such faith?

Hence, why wouldn't Jesus provide us something a lot more conclusive?

I truly lament that I can't mail you a check for some faith bitcoins.

"Doubting-Thomas: Meet your grandson!"

linr05 @ground level

 

[Ana the Ist]

Yes. And he thought that this diminished the effectiveness of his mission. I thought the opposite.

You think that living forever would have diminished his "triumph over death"? I disagree...it certainly would've left no doubt in anyone's mind whether or not he actually triumphed over death. You certainly wouldn't have people like me who believe that if he existed at all, he certainly died, and didn't rise from the grave.

I also think it would've made his message more "known" as it means a lot more coming from an actual immortal "god on earth" than coming from what appears to be just another religious tome from ancient times.

 

[amariselle]

You think that living forever would have diminished his "triumph over death"? I disagree...it certainly would've left no doubt in anyone's mind whether or not he actually triumphed over death. You certainly wouldn't have people like me who believe that if he existed at all, he certainly died, and didn't rise from the grave.

I also think it would've made his message more "known" as it means a lot more coming from an actual immortal "god on earth" than coming from what appears to be just another religious tome from ancient times.

Would you believe Him now though? Even if He was standing in front of you? Would so many people who reject Him truly believe if He was still among us in the physical sense?

How would we know for sure that He was the same person from 2,000 years ago? Would studies and experiments need to be done?

I think many people who don't believe now, wouldn't change their minds just because there was a physical person to talk with. I think non-Christians would still doubt and would perhaps think He was just another man claiming to be Jesus. After all, we weren't there in person 2,000 years ago, and they doubted Him then too.

Jesus' own disciples didn't even always believe Him, even when they saw His miracles and saw and talked with Him after He rose from the dead.

I do believe, however, that God DOES give us enough to know Him. Faith is an interesting thing though, and it's hard to explain sometimes. We would still need some amount of faith, even if He was here in person, because there is still so much we didn't personally see or hear from the last 2,000 years.

 

[SteveB28]

This thread asks a question that presupposes Jesus is real and truly the Messiah, and that, as described in the Bible, He ascended into heaven.

So, the question of the thread is, why did He leave as He did, rather than staying. This thread is not dealing with whether or not Jesus or belief in Him is a "delusion". I've gone down that rabbit trail with you long enough. If you wish to continue asking how anyone can know for sure that their beliefs aren't simply "delusions", please start another thread on the topic. I'm done talking about that subject here, and as you will see above, I have gone back and given my answers to the OP's question.

The evasions and non-answers speak volumes.

 

[SteveB28]

They are real, in that they have a real effect on people and we can see this effect in reality in the actions of the people who believe in those gods.

You, a Christian, believe that other gods exist!?

 

[SteveB28]

More than anything else, I suppose, my continued clarity, sanity, and reasoning ability since Christ. I couple this with the fact that certainly millions, if not billions of persons over history have experienced the same thing, if perhaps in different ways and at different times in their lives.

And 2 billion Muslims would say the same about their God. You can't both be right.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

As Jesus told many, even if someone came back from the dead, today (2016) many would reject Him, many would seek to crucify Him, few would accept Him...
for the same reasons today as He gave in Scripture , through and through...

people are not any 'smarter' nor better off today in faith or anything that matters... and they are continually making the exact same mistakes as people did right in front of Jesus.

Would you believe Him now though? Even if He was standing in front of you? Would so many people who reject Him truly believe if He was still among us in the physical sense?
How would we know for sure that He was the same person from 2,000 years ago? Would studies and experiments need to be done?
I think many people who don't believe now, wouldn't change their minds just because there was a physical person to talk with. I think non-Christians would still doubt and would perhaps think He was just another man claiming to be Jesus. After all, we weren't there in person 2,000 years ago, and they doubted Him then too.
Jesus' own disciples didn't even always believe Him, even when they saw His miracles and saw and talked with Him after He rose from the dead.
I do believe, however, that God DOES give us enough to know Him. Faith is an interesting thing though, and it's hard to explain sometimes. We would still need some amount of faith, even if He was here in person, because there is still so much we didn't personally see or hear from the last 2,000 years.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

I doesn't answer the question. You are merely saying "it's important because the book says so"

Catching on , are ye ?

 

[Chriliman]

You, a Christian, believe that other gods exist!?

Why wouldn't I or any Christian for that matter? There is clear description of other gods in the Bible and we're clearly told to avoid worshipping them because they only lead to falsehood and evil.

 

[amariselle]

The evasions and non-answers speak volumes.

Choosing to stay on the topic of a particular thread is not "evasion", but think whatever you want. It does seem like you enjoy reading into things, your choice of course.

 

[HitchSlap]

As Jesus told many, even if someone came back from the dead, today (2016) many would reject Him, many would seek to crucify Him, few would accept Him...
for the same reasons today as He gave in Scripture , through and through...

people are not any 'smarter' nor better off today in faith or anything that matters... and they are continually making the exact same mistakes as people did right in fromng of Jesus.

I'm truly sorry you feel this way.

 

[HitchSlap]

Why wouldn't I or any Christian for that matter? There is clear description of other gods in the Bible and we're clearly told to avoid worshipping them because they only lead to falsehood and evil.

How many god's exist? How does something become a god?

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

I'm truly sorry you feel this way.

Why ? ( How should I or anyone argue with God for things to be different ? )

 

[HitchSlap]

Why ? ( How should I or anyone argue with God for things to be different ? )

Your view of reality is wanting, IMO.