Why did Jesus have to die?

[AlexDTX]

I've been thinking on this recently and came up with the following (which I do not know if others have said before me).

If God wanted to break the Covenant of Genesis 12 and Genesis 15:9-18, to bring in the new Covenant of Jeremiah 31:31-34, he had to pay the price of breaking a covenant and die (as it says, about the price of breaking a covenant, in Jeremiah 34:18-20).

Jesus's death is God paying that price.

Any (polite ) thoughts on this?

Mat_5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

 

[Inkfingers]

Mat_5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

Yup.

Fulfill. As in conclude and end the old covenant, and bring in a brand spanking shiny new one that actually works by offering salvation.

Hebrews 10:4

 

[Steve Petersen]

Yup.

Fulfill. As in conclude and end the old covenant, and bring in a brand spanking shiny new one that actually works by offering salvation.

Hebrews 10:4

Where did the OT EVER claim to be a way to heaven after we die?

 

[Inkfingers]

Where did the OT EVER claim to be a way to heaven after we die?

Where did I say that it had done so?

 

[Steve Petersen]

Where did I say that it had done so?

Yup.

Fulfill. As in conclude and end the old covenant, and bring in a brand spanking shiny new one that actually works by offering salvation.

Hebrews 10:4

 

[Inkfingers]

Erm, where in that am I claiming that the OT "claim[ed] to be a way to heaven after we die"?

 

[Steve Petersen]

Erm, where in that am I claiming that the OT "claim[ed] to be a way to heaven after we die"?

By saying that the OT didn't work in bringing salvation necessitating a new covenant. You are making a false dichotomy.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

I've been thinking on this recently and came up with the following (which I do not know if others have said before me).

If God wanted to break the Covenant of Genesis 12 and Genesis 15:9-18, to bring in the new Covenant of Jeremiah 31:31-34, he had to pay the price of breaking a covenant and die (as it says, about the price of breaking a covenant, in Jeremiah 34:18-20).

Jesus's death is God paying that price.

Any (polite ) thoughts on this?

Hebrews 9 is a good read on that"
Hebrews 9:
15 Therefore Christ is the mediator of a new covenant, so that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance, now that He has died to redeem them from the transgressions committed under the first covenant.
16 In the case of a will, it is necessary to establish the death of the one who made it,
17 because a will does not take effect until the one who made it has died; it cannot be executed while he is still alive.

18 That is why even the first covenant was not put into effect without blood.
1 Corin 7:23
Of value/honor ye are bought/hgorasqhte <59>,
no be ye becoming! bond-slaves of men. [Reve 5:9]

Revelation 5:9
and they sing a new song, saying, `Worthy art thou to take the scroll, and to open the seals of it,
because Thou wast slaughtered, and didst purchase/hgorasaV <59> Us to God in Thy blood, out of every tribe, and tongue, and people, and nation
[Hosea 13:14/1 Corin 7:23]

New Covenant of Jeremiah 31 Hebrew 8
New Covenant of Jeremiah 31 Hebrew 8

This character even made a Last Will and Testament in case he is "raptured". Oh my LOL

A Rapture codicil for Last Will and Testament « Heaven Awaits

For a long time, I enjoyed thinking about the Rapture, and if it were true, and when it might happen, if true. But I had never put too much thought into what would happened to those left behind to people I cared about, if there was a rapture and I was in it.
So what I am doing now is updating my Last Will and Testament, and including a codicil to the Will which addresses the Rapture. Most wills being executed are based on a person&#8217;s death, not their disappearance.

 

[Inkfingers]

By saying that the OT didn't work in bringing salvation necessitating a new covenant. You are making a false dichotomy.

Nope, I'm pointing out the truth:

God wanted to bring in a new covenant - Jeremiah 31:31-34
Because the old covenant was inferior and flawed - Hebrews 8:6-7 Hebrews 8:13
It was flawed because it did not offer salvation - Romans 3:20 Hebrews 10:4

 

[Steve Petersen]

Nope, I'm pointing out the truth:

God wanted to bring in a new covenant - Jeremiah 31:31-34
Because the old covenant was inferior and flawed - Hebrews 8:6-7 Hebrews 8:13
It was flawed because it did not offer salvation - Romans 3:20 Hebrews 10:4

Salvation was NEVER its purpose! Where did it ever offer that?

 

[Neogaia777]

Salvation was NEVER its purpose! Where did it ever offer that?

I don't think he is saying that did or was...?

Is he...? Maybe that some (men) wrongly "assumed" that that was it's purpose, but he's not saying that that was it's actual purpose...?

It's actual purpose was to lead and pave the way to the New Covenant...

God Bless!

 

[Steve Petersen]

I don't think he is saying that did or was...?

Is he...? Maybe that some (men) wrongly "assumed" that that was it's purpose, but he's not saying that that was it's actual purpose...?

It's actual purpose was to lead and pave the way to the New Covenant...

God Bless!

Typical Christian arguments say that the Law was given to show men that they couldn't earn their way to heaven. This is a bad argument because it begins with a false premise. The Law was never about getting to heaven. So, in this sense, men have indeed wrongly assumed that was its purpose.

The Law was a national constitution, not a theory of soteriology.

 

[Neogaia777]

Typical Christian arguments say that the Law was given to show men that they couldn't earn their way to heaven. This is a bad argument because it begins with a false premise. The Law was never about getting to heaven. So, in this sense, men have indeed wrongly assumed that was its purpose.

The Law was a national constitution, not a theory of soteriology.

The law was, and is many things, that include, but are not solely limited to a national constitution only... For example it shows us what God is like, and many other things, his (moral) standards, ect... It shows us the "target", so to speak...

At least it's moral laws anyway...

God Bless!

 

[Inkfingers]

Salvation was NEVER its purpose! Where did it ever offer that?

And that is why it is flawed / inferior.

 

[Steve Petersen]

And that is why it is flawed / inferior.

And so to be dismissed?

 

[Inkfingers]

And so to be dismissed?

Yup - Hebrews 8:13

Do you both looking at links, or are you just reacting without doing so?

 

[Neogaia777]

Yup - Hebrews 8:13

Do you both looking at links, or are you just reacting without doing so?

Only after it's real purpose is fulfilled, or is done in someone's life, (like with non-believers) (or those not fully in the N.C. yet) and they enter into the New Covenant after it...

Not before it/that though...

God Bless!

 

[Steve Petersen]

Yup - Hebrews 8:13

Do you both looking at links, or are you just reacting without doing so?

No, I am quite familiar with Christian arguments against the Law because I grew up with them and made them myself. As I got older and looked at them in the context of the history and culture of the Jesus and the nation of Israel, it became clear that these arguments are based on literalist interpretations that have no regard for historical/cultural context. How people in Jesus' and Paul's day would have understood what they were saying is different than the way we understand them. Our paradigms are inaccurate.

 

[Inkfingers]

No, I am quite familiar with Christian arguments against the Law because I grew up with them and made them myself. As I got older and looked at them in the context of the history and culture of the Jesus and the nation of Israel, it became clear that these arguments are based on literalist interpretations that have no regard for historical/cultural context. How people in Jesus' and Paul's day would have understood what they were saying is different than the way we understand them. Our paradigms are inaccurate.

Twaddle. The rule against adultery is not symbolic or metaphorical.

 

[Randy777]

Because it is how God chose to forgive sin.
Jesus gave the reason
This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.