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Actually the Day that we cannot know, is the forthcoming Day of the Lord's fiery wrath. The sudden and unexpected Sixth Seal worldwide disaster. Paul refers to it in 1 Thess 5:3That is because it is a figurative period relating to the here-and-now which cannot be literally specified, because only the Father knows the day of Christ's return. Interpreting Scripture with Scripture totally negates Premillennialism. The doctrine totally lacks corroboration.
Yes.
A rude accusation.
The; Time, times and half a time - 3 1/2 years - 42 months and 1260 days of the period of Satans rule of the world is mentioned about 10 times in the Bible.
Your denial of it is incomprehensible. But understandable as coming from one who denies the future Millennium, when Jesus will literally and physically reign as King of the world.
Your posts have revealed all sorts of presumptions (and other things as well) - so you're welcome to translate and read into things whatever you choose. I'm certain nothing I post will change your view anyway. You can believe I'm a "full preterist pretending to be a partial preterist" all you wish.
As per the forum rules and SOP - this is partial preterism (of which I believe):
Partial Preterism: Partial preterism holds that most eschatological prophecies, such as the destruction of Jerusalem, the Antichrists, the Great Tribulation, and the advent of the Day of the Lord as a "judgment-coming" of Christ, were fulfilled either in AD 70 or during the persecution of Christians under the Emperor Nero. The Second coming and the resurrection of the dead, however, have not yet occurred in the partial preterist system.
Where in Revelation 20 does it show Jesus literally and physically reigning as King on the earth?
Verse 4.
That is a heavenly scene. It is a picture of the disembodied spirits reigning now with Christ.
So...from where do these disembodied spirits reign with Christ if not from earth?
From heaven?
Rev 5 actually parallels Revelation 20; it shows the saints reigning now in heaven waiting for Christ's climactic Coming.
Forgive me. I'm not as skilled and eloquent with voluminous words as you are.
So your understanding is, we are currently living in Christ's reign over earth. But the saints He reigns with are in heaven with Him at the moment?
If yes, then where are we in this picture?
If one looks at the texts involved, none of these things could possibly be taking place in heaven.
Revelation 20:1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
This very first verse shows that location is not heaven, the fact the text indicates an angel comes down from heaven. Down from heaven to where? How can it not be the earth? Which then tells us that's because that is where satan is at the time, the earth. This also tells us that it is meaning after satan has been cast out unto the earth per Revelation 12. So at we at least know from Revelation 12, that when satan gets bound a thousand years here in Revelation 20, it has to be meaning after the fulfillment of Revelation 12:17, where that is referring to the 42 month reign of the beast, Revelation 13.
We know satan isn't bound once he is initially cast to the earth in Revelation 12, the fact it shows satan persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child. He can't be bound in the pit if he is doing things like that. Before he is kicked out of heaven he obviously still had access to heaven. The only place his binding fits is after he is cast out unto the earth. And since it can't be when he is initially cast to the earth, like I already showed, the only other place his binding can possibly fit, is after the fulfillment of Revelation 12:17, where that is referring to the 42 month reign of the beast, Revelation 13. And that equals Premil. No way can it equal Amil.
Everything I just submitted proves satan is bound a thousand years after the 2nd coming, and not thousands of years ago like Amils claim. I challenge any Amil to show with Revelation 12, where the thousand year binding of satan fits if not after Revelation 12:17. Let's see if any of them can actually prove the position they assert, or let's see whether they just avoid this challenge altogether, like is typically the case.
Lol.
I'm still expecting a response.
Forgive me. I'm not as skilled and eloquent with voluminous words as you are.
So your understanding is, we are currently living in Christ's reign over earth. But the saints He reigns with are in heaven with Him at the moment?
If yes, then where are we in this picture?
Hi you cannot reconcile Zech 14 and Rev 20 that is easy if you believe Zech 14 is the 2nd coming and Satan is bound for the 1000 years and afterwards loosed for one last temptation 1000 years later exactly as the text says.Yes, I do agree that Jude 14 is talking about the second coming. But I do not relate it to Zechariah 14. If my own testimony is of any interest to you, when I abandon Premillennialism in 2000, Zechariah 14 and Revelation 20 were the final two chapters to fall before I changed. I tried to correlate the two of them the best I could, but I could see no similarity. So, I've been asking the question for 20 years now, and I have yet to get a Premillennialist that can answer it. I can only come to one conclusion, they see what I see. There is no connection whatsoever.
Zechariah 14 is a very difficult passage to understand. We do know that the old covenant prophets were looking forward through a glazed class to a new arrangement that they couldn't fully comprehend. They did not have the full revelation we have.
Zechariah was outlining some pivotal approaching events that would change the religious landscape forever. Of course, it was concentrated on the cross-work. But it also spoke about AD70. What you ask about, I believe, relates to Christ's ministry and rejection by the many and His reception by the few. I believe Zechariah was looking forward at times to the First Advent and at other times to AD70.
Zechariah 14:5 predicts, “ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.”
Here, I believe, we see a reference to the earthly ministry of Christ and particularly His final betrayal. In Mark 14 we see an account of the arrest of Christ for crucifixion. Even those nearest and dearest to Him could not stand with Him at this dark hour. Verse 50 tells us: “And they all forsook him, and fled.”
Zechariah had previously alluded to this same thing in Zechariah 13:6-7, “And one shall say unto him, What are these wounds in thine hands? Then he shall answer, Those with which I was wounded in the house of my friends. Awake, O sword, against my shepherd, and against the man that is my fellow, saith the LORD of hosts: smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered: and I will turn mine hand upon the little ones.”
Matthew 26:31 says, “Then saith Jesus unto them, All ye shall be offended because of me this night: for it is written (in Zechariah 13:7), I will smite the shepherd, and the sheep of the flock shall be scattered abroad.”
Only a few remained faithful. He then returned to minister unto them for 40 days after His resurrection. After equipping them, they took the Gospel out to the nations.
While Calvary was the apex of the OT exprectation, AD70 was the awful result for the Jews.
During Christ’s earthly ministry He declared of Jerusalem, “Daughters of Jerusalem, weep not for me, but weep for yourselves, and for your children. For, behold, the days are coming, in the which they shall say, Blessed are the barren, and the wombs that never bare, and the paps which never gave suck. Then shall they begin to say to the mountains, Fall on us; and to the hills, Cover us” (Luke 23:28-30).
Paul the Apostle outlines this fact, when speaking of the Jews and the impending wrath of God on the nation of Israel, in 1 Thessalonians 2:14-16, “For ye, brethren, became followers of the churches of God which in Judaea are in Christ Jesus: for ye also have suffered like things of your own countrymen, even as they have of the Jews: Who both killed the Lord Jesus, and their own prophets, and have persecuted us; and they please not God, and are contrary to all men: Forbidding us to speak to the Gentiles that they might be saved, to fill up their sins alway: for the wrath is come upon them to the uttermost.”
I think you are a very able communicator.
Being "in Christ," we reign now with Christ on earth since the first resurrection of Christ. We reign in life and in death. We reign because He reigns.
It's not a question as to what the Jewish Revolts and total destruction of ancient Jerusalem and the whole temple system accomplishes for US....it's what it meant for the ancient Jews and the early church. It's a question as to how the generation that lived as contempories of Jesus - at His first Advent - experienced His salvation and vengeance. Salvation, wrath, and the end of the age (the Old Covenant age) are all tied together in the Bible (the way I see it - as is the partial preterist view).Paul the apostle tells the largely Gentile church in Ephesians 1:13-14 and Ephesians 4:30 that the believer is sealed with the Holy Spirit until the day of redemption. Could you please tell me in what way you believe the coming of Titus in AD70 could possibly accomplish that for us? Surely this is talking about Christ's climactic return to redeem our bodies through glorification?
It's not a question as to what the Jewish Revolts and total destruction of ancient Jerusalem and the whole temple system accomplishes for US....it's what it meant for the ancient Jews and the early church. It's a question as to how the generation that lived as contempories of Jesus - at His first Advent - experienced His salvation and vengeance. Salvation, wrath, and the end of the age (the Old Covenant age) are all tied together in the Bible (the way I see it - as is the partial preterist view).
FalseActually the Day that we cannot know, is the forthcoming Day of the Lord's fiery wrath. The sudden and unexpected Sixth Seal worldwide disaster. Paul refers to it in 1 Thess 5:3
So anyone with a Bible will be able to know the Day of the Return, that day being exactly 1260 days after the Temple is desecrated.
All Christians are partial preterists - it's a matter of degrees (as you said). There're plenty of areas of disagreement since preterism runs the expanse of Christianity.I'm apparently partial preterist to some degree, and I don't see any of it like that.
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