Why Christians do eat pork despite its...

[LittleLambofJesus]

Talmidah, Homour the command of God, and don't eat Pork! Don't go into the way of the gentile as many people do!

I know you are not a christian, but remember, Jesus (pbuh), if one consider's him a one who hold the commandment of God (i.e even a Jew) never went to the way of the Gentile's.

PLZ, don't listen to them gentile's and don't let saytan tempt you!

Umm Skill. You are a gentile too bro.

I think you are wrong, I said don't go in the way of the gentile. No Jew's can accuse a MUSLIM'S of that!

No, but us gentiles can. Are you a Mess-ianic in diguise then?.

 

[peaceful soul]

I don't know what you mean by "a separate judgment of Jews and Gentiles based upon what we eat or not eat". What kind of judgment? But anyway, for a Jew to eat pork is a sin, for a gentile to eat pork is not a sin. Maybe someone with more extensive knowledge of "facts and truth of things" can answer you more fully to your satisfaction. As I stated before, whether you're a fan of them or not, theories abound as to the "why" of kashrut. Kashrut has aided in the unity of our people; the keeping of boundaries; being set apart; alleviating problems of intermarriage, etc. Kashrut instills a discipline in our lives that spill over to all other aspects of our life; a choosing of the holy over the profane each time we're going to put something in our mouths. Not enough "fact" for you, to be sure, but that is of no concern to me, for I have no desire to debate or argue the issue.

I am mainly asking if you understand why you are not to eat pork. Do you know the reason that God forbade you to do it? If you can not eat pork and I can according to God, then He does indeed judge you by a separate standard. That was my point of consideration. Basically, I am trying to understand how you understand the reasons for the prohibition to Jews in particular. Do you have any understanding of that?

 

[Skillganon]

No worries, Skill I'm certainly not tempted in the least to eat any pork

(DONT BREAK THE COMMANDMENT AND GO INTO THE WAY OF THE GENTILE!)

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

quote Talmidah: I don't know what you mean by "a separate judgment of Jews and Gentiles based upon what we eat or not eat". What kind of judgment? But anyway, for a Jew to eat pork is a sin, for a gentile to eat pork is not a sin. Maybe someone with more extensive knowledge of "facts and truth of things" can answer you more fully to your satisfaction. As I stated before, whether you're a fan of them or not, theories abound as to the "why" of kashrut. Kashrut has aided in the unity of our people; the keeping of boundaries; being set apart; alleviating problems of intermarriage, etc. Kashrut instills a discipline in our lives that spill over to all other aspects of our life; a choosing of the holy over the profane each time we're going to put something in our mouths. Not enough "fact" for you, to be sure, but that is of no concern to me, for I have no desire to debate or argue the issue.

quote peacfull soul: I am mainly asking if you understand why you are not to eat pork. Do you know the reason that God forbade you to do it? If you can not eat pork and I can according to God, then He does indeed judge you by a separate standard. That was my point of consideration. Basically, I am trying to understand how you understand the reasons for the prohibition to Jews in particular. Do you have any understanding of that?

(DONT BREAK THE COMMANDMENT AND GO INTO THE WAY OF THE GENTILE!)

Umm Skill. You are a gentile too bro.

I think you are wrong, I said don't go in the way of the gentile. No Jew's can accuse a MUSLIM'S of that!

No, but us gentiles can. Are you a Mess-ianic or jew in diguise then?. I believe Skill suffers from an "identity" crises and pictures himself back on Mt Sinai with the original Hebrews and Moses.

Gala 4:24 which things are allegorized, for these are the two covenants: one, indeed, from mount Sinai, to servitude bringing forth, which is Hagar; 25 for this Hagar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and doth correspond to the Jerusalem that now [is], and is in servitude with her children, 26 and the Jerusalem above is the free-woman, which is mother of us all,

(Young) Galatians 6:1 Brethren, if a man also may be overtaken in any trespass, ye who [are] spiritual restore such a one in a spirit of meekness, considering thyself--lest thou also may be tempted; 2 of one another the burdens bear ye, and so fill up the law of the Christ, 3 for if any one doth think [himself] to be something--being nothing--himself he doth deceive;

 

[chokmah]

I am mainly asking if you understand why you are not to eat pork. Do you know the reason that God forbade you to do it?

The same reason he forbids camel, hawk, kite, shellfish...

Because He says so.

If you can not eat pork and I can according to God, then He does indeed judge you by a separate standard. That was my point of consideration.

So what? You're also not given the same responsibilities by G-d. You're not called to carry the mantle of Torah. You're not called to observe the other 612 mitzvoh. You're free to operate in your society as you please as long as it is in alignment with common decency and respect. As for judgment by G-d, He judges men (and women) as He chooses. What does that say for you in this regard? Concern yourself with your personal relationship with G-d and not that which He has with others. He hasn't called you to be judge over the Jews; therefore, don't concern yourself with how G-d judges the Jews. Just concern yourself with how G-d is going to judge you.

 

[Toney]

Because He says so.

Great line!

And it's working just fine, thank you very much.

"Be Holy as I am Holy," basically means be separate from them pagans, and dietary laws, as Karen Armstrong put it in History of God, are "a sign of Israel's special status." That status, of course, being God's chosen people.

Armstrong: "Human nature could be sanctified when Israelites imitated God's creative actions by separating milk from meat, clean from unclean, and sabbath from the rest of the week."

Let's not split hooves here. It is not necessary for dietary law to make sense.

Have some carbs.

 

[HumbleSiPilot77]

Pig is a filthy animal? Same muslim fallacy I repeated before becoming a Christian. Like chickens and cows are incredibly intelligent and "CLEAN" animals, they take a shower everyday.

 

[Toney]

Pig is a filthy animal? Same muslim fallacy I repeated before becoming a Christian. Like chickens and cows are incredibly intelligent and "CLEAN" animals, they take a shower everyday.

BM,

Just a personal note to wish you God's speed in your quest and to thank you for the many sacrifices you must make while serving our country.

Go Army!

Toney (Vet 1966-68)

 

[seed757]

He said BM. He he.

 

[peaceful soul]

originally posted by chokmah

The same reason he forbids camel, hawk, kite, shellfish...

Because He says so.

That is not the actual reason. It has to do with separation of animals for sacrifices. It has nothing to do with cleanliness of the animal. The sacrifices of Israel were to be clean according to what God declared as clean for the purposes of worship. That did not mean the that animal was any more sanitary than any of God's other creation. I think that the Muslims and perhaps most of the Jews do not get this understanding.

Another thing to add: Just because God says so does not leave us blind to His purpose(s). God normally gives us some understanding of what we are doing so that we can willfully carry out his plans with thought and purpose opposed to the concept of just following the rules. He does not expect us to be robotic in our calling. We can not worship God in truth and in spirit if we can not discern what he expects of us. Obeying God just because He says so is no different than what the Muslims do. They have no true understanding of what submission to God is from my perspective. This is not a put-down; rather an observation I can see from studying scripture.

So what? You're also not given the same responsibilities by G-d. You're not called to carry the mantle of Torah. You're not called to observe the other 612 mitzvoh.

The question remains: why did God give Israel a set of laws to follow? Did this mean that God had more than one standard of judgment for mankind?

You're free to operate in your society as you please as long as it is in alignment with common decency and respect.

Is that they way that God governed Israel? Does God have lesser standards for the rest of us? Exactly how do you define common decency? Does God let us make up the rules?

As for judgment by G-d, He judges men (and women) as He chooses.

That is not entirely true. He does have a single standard; otherwise, He would be partial to Jews, for example, and then to Gentiles on the other side of the coin.

What does that say for you in this regard? Concern yourself with your personal relationship with G-d and not that which He has with others.

You missed the reason I asked the question. You are going on an attack mode it seems. I was trying to understand if the Jews saw the laws given to Isarael, namely Judah, as a different judgment than for others. The reality is that God's relationship with Israel has everything to do with the rest of creation; for if He is the true God, He also has to judge me too, and that judgment is related to how Israel is judged, unless you think that God is partial somehow.

He hasn't called you to be judge over the Jews; therefore, don't concern yourself with how G-d judges the Jews. Just concern yourself with how G-d is going to judge you.

Firstly, this is not answer the question, and secondly, this is not what I implied. I will assume that you did not perceive the tone of my query and mistakened it for somethings else.

Anyway, to finish my thought here: The ceremonial laws were for sanctification/separation form pagans and were to be symbolic both spiritually and figuratively of how God was - holy. The laws did not separate the Iraelites in any way as superior in statue or spirituality than anyone else.

Actually, we are all given the same responsibility before God. He does not grade on a curve or expect you to be judged by a different standard than me. The laws were used in part as a means of getting mankind to understand what God's holiness was all about. It was not the end-all to God's laws. God's laws are more numerous than the ones given to Israel. To see the Torah as the end of the road is very shortsighted. The Torah was a specific means of showing God's holiness, faithfulness, sovereignty, and integrity to a spearated (holy/sanctified) group of people and ultimately to the rest of creation. We can come to know God in part by how He dealt with Israel in particular (but not limited to them) and can come to trust Him for He is faithful and true to His word.

 

[Toney]

Another thing to add: Just because God says so does not leave us blind to His purpose(s).

I am sure Chokmah will answer your post in due course.

I don't disagree entirely with your statement above.

However, consider apples for instance. Good fruit -- most would agree.

Eve pretty well understood what God said.

What should she have done?

 

[seed757]

Why does it seem as if some people see God as their drinking buddy or something?

 

[peaceful soul]

I am sure Chokmah will answer your post in due course.

I don't disagree entirely with your statement above.

However, consider apples for instance. Good fruit -- most would agree.

Eve pretty well understood what God said.

What should she have done?

I am not sure if you are just using "apple" as an example or not, but there is no mention of what that tree bore except knowledge of good and evil. We can not assume anything else about that tree.

Concerning the commandment: The difference is that Eve knew beforehand as witnessed by the two verses below. She may not have known the pending implications, but she suredly knew that she would suffer death for her violation of God's command. This type of understanding is illustrated throughout the Bible. God does not just leave us without some apprehension and comprehension of his orders. We must have cognition in order to follow God; otherwise, we would be following rules rather than God. There is a huge difference in the two.

Gen 2:16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
Gen 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

Gen 3:3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.


Thanks for your reply.

 

[peaceful soul]

I am sure Chokmah will answer your post in due course.

I don't disagree entirely with your statement above.

However, consider apples for instance. Good fruit -- most would agree.

Eve pretty well understood what God said.

What should she have done?

Perhaps that is the way you view their view. They may not even have such a thought themselves. God is not distant, at least to those who seek Him in Spirit and in Truth. God is knowable to the extent that we can have a true personal relationship with him without trying to remember what rule we are not to break this time.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Why does it seem as if some people see God as their drinking buddy or something?

I can't eat, sleep, drink, work, play etc without Him there with me. How is He not my "drinking buddy"?

(Young) 1 Corinthians 3:16 have ye not known that ye are a sanctuary of God, and the Spirit of God doth dwell in you?

 

[chokmah]

That is not the actual reason. It has to do with separation of animals for sacrifices. It has nothing to do with cleanliness of the animal. The sacrifices of Israel were to be clean according to what God declared as clean for the purposes of worship. That did not mean the that animal was any more sanitary than any of God's other creation. I think that the Muslims and perhaps most of the Jews do not get this understanding.

Your statement that I addressed was:

I am mainly asking if you understand why you are not to eat pork. Do you know the reason that God forbade you to do it?

Your statement doesn't talk about sacrifices; it talks about consumption. Hence the reason why I did not discuss clean and unclean in that sense.

Another thing to add: Just because God says so does not leave us blind to His purpose(s). God normally gives us some understanding of what we are doing so that we can willfully carry out his plans with thought and purpose opposed to the concept of just following the rules. He does not expect us to be robotic in our calling. We can not worship God in truth and in spirit if we can not discern what he expects of us. Obeying God just because He says so is no different than what the Muslims do. They have no true understanding of what submission to God is from my perspective. This is not a put-down; rather an observation I can see from studying scripture.

It's also your opinion (which you're entitled to) and nothing more. You fail to realize (from a Jewish/Noachide perspective) that G-d owes us NOTHING. He doesn't have to tell us a single thing, and He certainly doesn't share everything with us. Sometimes blind obedience is exactly what He wants and it has nothing to do with being robotic. G-d created us as sentient human beings, but He also created us as finite. As such, we cannot comprehend what He does and does not show us. As a Christian, it's easy for you to sit there and say that you have seen G-d, because you picture Him in human form. Whereas, for us who "view" G-d differently, we realize that He is beyond us in all ways, shapes and forms. If G-d asks, we are to do. Sure, we can ask "why?", but He doesn't have to answer.

The question remains: why did God give Israel a set of laws to follow? Did this mean that God had more than one standard of judgment for mankind?

Because they were given the responsibility of maintaining, teaching, and preserving Torah. That's the whole kit and kaboodle.

Is that they way that God governed Israel? Does God have lesser standards for the rest of us? Exactly how do you define common decency? Does God let us make up the rules?

I am a Noachide. That's what I feel G-d expects of the rest of mankind: adherence to the Noachide Laws.

That is not entirely true. He does have a single standard; otherwise, He would be partial to Jews, for example, and then to Gentiles on the other side of the coin.

Do all people in a manufacturing plant get judged (on the job they do) by the same standard? Does management get judged the same as the laborer? No. It's the same situation here. Different jobs (callings) for different people. That doesn't make the standards any different.

You missed the reason I asked the question. You are going on an attack mode it seems. I was trying to understand if the Jews saw the laws given to Isarael, namely Judah, as a different judgment than for others. The reality is that God's relationship with Israel has everything to do with the rest of creation; for if He is the true God, He also has to judge me too, and that judgment is related to how Israel is judged, unless you think that God is partial somehow.

You are not judged as a Jew. You are not given the same job (calling) as a Jew. Therefore, the judgment that you face will be different than a Jew as far as that job/calling are concerned. It has nothing to do with partiality.

Anyway, to finish my thought here: The ceremonial laws were for sanctification/separation form pagans and were to be symbolic both spiritually and figuratively of how God was - holy. The laws did not separate the Iraelites in any way as superior in statue or spirituality than anyone else.

Actually, we are all given the same responsibility before God.

Wrong. Not all are called to carry the mantle of Torah.

 

[seed757]

I can't eat, sleep, drink, work, play etc without Him there with me. How is He not my "drinking buddy"?

(Young) 1 Corinthians 3:16 have ye not known that ye are a sanctuary of God, and the Spirit of God doth dwell in you?

I mean the complete irreverence some show towards God.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

You are not judged as a Jew. You are not given the same job (calling) as a Jew. Therefore, the judgment that you face will be different than a Jew as far as that job/calling are concerned. It has nothing to do with partiality.

Yes, Jesus did say that.

(Young) John 5:45 `Do not think that I will accuse you unto the Father; there is who is accusing you, Moses--in whom ye have hoped;

 

[Skillganon]

That is not the actual reason. It has to do with separation of animals for sacrifices. It has nothing to do with cleanliness of the animal. The sacrifices of Israel were to be clean according to what God declared as clean for the purposes of worship. That did not mean the that animal was any more sanitary than any of God's other creation. I think that the Muslims and perhaps most of the Jews do not get this understanding.

He Think's Muslim and Jew's Missunderstood God's Command?

Another thing to add: Just because God says so does not leave us blind to His purpose(s). God normally gives us some understanding of what we are doing so that we can willfully carry out his plans with thought and purpose opposed to the concept of just following the rules. He does not expect us to be robotic in our calling. We can not worship God in truth and in spirit if we can not discern what he expects of us. Obeying God just because He says so is no different than what the Muslims do. They have no true understanding of what submission to God is from my perspective. This is not a put-down; rather an observation I can see from studying scripture.

Well their may be reason or benefit of following the Gods command, what better reason is their to follow the command than the reason to ovoid the Fire of Hell!
So God's said so not to eat pork Goes well with me!

I guess you don't have much understanding of Islam or Judaism.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

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