Why Christian Creationists Hate Evolution but Muslim Creationists Don’t Care

[TagliatelliMonster]

It's a story you don't understand.

It's kind of funny because the only possible basis you could have for that statement, is that I don't agree with your particular beliefs on said story.

I just read what the story says. And the story clearly says that this god commands what-can-only-be-called genocide. It even includes kidnapping/enslaving virgin girls as war booty.

Answer one question. Why does a demon hate a Christian?
If you don't know the answer, nothing else makes sense.

Completely irrelevant to the so-called god commandments that are right there in the book.

 

[KWCrazy]

I'ld like to see someone in a court being accused of a murder based on DNA being all over the victim...

Sorry, it's a stupid analogy.
First it requires that a person be dead. That requires he prior existence of a person.
Evolution of all life from one cell requires the creation of one cell. The only entity in the universe capable of creating that one cell very specifically said He did not create it that way.
No origination = no body = no murder.

 

[KWCrazy]

Completely irrelevant to the so-called god commandments that are right there in the book.

Thank you for admitting that you can't answer this simple fundamental question. It explains why you can't understand the other things in the Bible.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Sorry, it's a stupid analogy.

Why? Because it exposes how stupid your statement was?

It's a perfectly fine analogy.
It's an event from the past with a viable natural theory on how it went down.

So, in what way would the analogy have to change in your opinion?

First it requires that a person be dead.

And evolution requires biological diversity and all ingredients of the process to be present - which they are (mutation, struggle for survival, inheritance of traits)

That requires he prior existence of a person.

So? We are talking about the murder, not the existance of the person.

Evolution of all life from one cell requires the creation of one cell.

The origins of life aren't covered by evolution theory. That's out of scope. Just like gravity theory doesn't cover the origins of matter, or even mass.

I'm sure you know this, because I'm sure it has been brought to your attention uncountable times.

The only entity in the universe capable of creating that one cell very specifically said He did not create it that way.

For the sake of argument, let's assume that the first cell was planted on earth by any entity of your choosing.

That doesn't change evolution theory in the slightest. Can we move on now?

No origination = no body = no murder.

You made a statement. Saying that having a viable model of explanation does not mean that that's the way it happened.

I showed you an example of a situation where there is a viable model of explanation.

I happen to agree that having a viable model doesn't mean that that is the way it happened. There sure are degrees of uncertainty, always.

The question however, is how reasonable it is to reject a model for that reason alone.

In the analogy, the question is: would it be reasonable of the judge to doubt the guilt of the defendant, based on the idea that "it is not certain that this model is how it went down"?

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Thank you for admitting that you can't answer this simple fundamental question. It explains why you can't understand the other things in the Bible.

I didn't say that I can't answer it. I said it is irrelevant to the point at hand.

I know that theists defend god-commanded genocide stories from the bible with "but but but... CONTEXT!!!".

But you see, it doesn't matter.
There is no context where it is okay to massacre babies and toddlers and to enslave virgin girls as "war booty".

It really is that simple.

 

[KWCrazy]

I didn't say that I can't answer it. I said it is irrelevant to the point at hand.

Not in the least.
You have to have at least rudimentary knowledge of the subject at hand. You do not.
You have to have a foundation from which morality is based. Your morality has roots in nothingness.
If you want to have a better understanding, Norman L. Geisler wrote the following in his book A Popular Survey of the Old Testament, Baker Book House, Grand Rapids, 1977. He writes:
"Several factors must be kept in mind in viewing this situation. (1) There is a difference between murder and justifiable killing. Murder involves intentional and malicious hatred which leads to life-taking. On the other hand, the Bible speaks of permissible life-taking in capital punishment (Gen. 9, in self defense (Exod. 22:2), and in a justifiable war (Gen. 14). (2) The Canaanites were by no means innocent. They were a people cursed of God from their very beginning (Gen. 9:25). They were a vile people who practiced the basest forms of immorality. God described their sin vividly in these words, “I punished its iniquity, and the land vomited out its inhabitants” (Lev. 18:25). (3) Further, the innocent people of the land were not slaughtered. The story of Sodom and Gomorrah clearly demonstrates that God would save a whole city for ten righteous people (Gen. 18:22f.). In that incident, when God could not find ten righteous people, He took the four or five righteous ones out of the place so as not to destroy them with the wicked (Gen. 19:15). On another occasion God saved some thirty-two thousand people who were morally pure (Num. 31:35). Another notable example is Rahab, whom God saved because she believed (cf. Heb. 11:31). (4) God waited patiently for hundreds of years, giving the wicked inhabitants of Canaan time to repent (cf. 2 Peter 3:9) before He finally decided to destroy them (Gen. 15:16). When their iniquity was “full,” divine judgment fell. God’s judgment was akin to surgery for cancer or amputation of a leg as the only way to save the rest of a sick body. Just as cancer or gangrene contaminates the physical body, those elements in a society—if their evil is left to fester—will completely contaminate the rest of society. (5) Finally, the battle confronting Israel was not simply a religious war; it was a theocratic war. Israel was directly ruled by God and the extermination was God’s direct command (cf. Exod. 23:27-30; Deut. 7:3-6; Josh. 8:24-26). No other nation either before or after Israel has been a theocracy. Thus, those commands were unique. Israel as a theocracy was an instrument of judgment in the hands of God. source

Not having any understanding of the above, you presume to be more moral than God whom you accuse of murder.

 

[HitchSlap]

Not in the least.
You have to have at least rudimentary knowledge of the subject at hand. You do not.
You have to have a foundation from which morality is based. Your morality has roots in nothingness.
If you want to have a better understanding, Norman L. Geisler wrote the following in his book A Popular Survey of the Old Testament, Baker Book House, Grand Rapids, 1977. He writes:
"Several factors must be kept in mind in viewing this situation. (1) There is a difference between murder and justifiable killing. Murder involves intentional and malicious hatred which leads to life-taking. On the other hand, the Bible speaks of permissible life-taking in capital punishment (Gen. 9, in self defense (Exod. 22:2), and in a justifiable war (Gen. 14). (2) The Canaanites were by no means innocent. They were a people cursed of God from their very beginning (Gen. 9:25). They were a vile people who practiced the basest forms of immorality. God described their sin vividly in these words, “I punished its iniquity, and the land vomited out its inhabitants” (Lev. 18:25). (3) Further, the innocent people of the land were not slaughtered. The story of Sodom and Gomorrah clearly demonstrates that God would save a whole city for ten righteous people (Gen. 18:22f.). In that incident, when God could not find ten righteous people, He took the four or five righteous ones out of the place so as not to destroy them with the wicked (Gen. 19:15). On another occasion God saved some thirty-two thousand people who were morally pure (Num. 31:35). Another notable example is Rahab, whom God saved because she believed (cf. Heb. 11:31). (4) God waited patiently for hundreds of years, giving the wicked inhabitants of Canaan time to repent (cf. 2 Peter 3:9) before He finally decided to destroy them (Gen. 15:16). When their iniquity was “full,” divine judgment fell. God’s judgment was akin to surgery for cancer or amputation of a leg as the only way to save the rest of a sick body. Just as cancer or gangrene contaminates the physical body, those elements in a society—if their evil is left to fester—will completely contaminate the rest of society. (5) Finally, the battle confronting Israel was not simply a religious war; it was a theocratic war. Israel was directly ruled by God and the extermination was God’s direct command (cf. Exod. 23:27-30; Deut. 7:3-6; Josh. 8:24-26). No other nation either before or after Israel has been a theocracy. Thus, those commands were unique. Israel as a theocracy was an instrument of judgment in the hands of God. source

Not having any understanding of the above, you presume to be more moral than God whom you accuse of murder.

lol what's to understand, the god in this story sanctioned total and utter destruction of a complete group of people... I don't care what your justifications are, it's still genocide.

 

[KWCrazy]

lol what's to understand, the god in this story sanctioned total and utter destruction of a complete group of people... I don't care what your justifications are, it's still genocide.

The Lord gives, the Lord takes away. As the author wrote, "The Canaanites were by no means innocent. They were a people cursed of God from their very beginning. They were a vile people who practiced the basest forms of immorality." As God pronounced judgement on a wicked world in the time of Noah, and pronounced judgment on Sodom and Gomorrah, He pronounced judgement upon the Canaanites. They were like the Jihadists of today; parasites who live to destroy. Do you know what happened when Saul and his army let King Agag live when he had been ordered by God to kill ALL the Amelekites?

Things happen for a reason. The wages of sin are death. God has never killed anyone who didn't deserve it. Those who declare themselves enemies of the Lord or His people learn the justice of the Lord. You lack the understanding to know why that is because you don't have the wisdom of the Lord. With wisdom comes understanding. Are you wise enough to realize that you are a lost sinner, no better than the Amelekites or the Canaanites? A righteous man needs no savior, but there are none righteous. We are all lost until saved by the Lord.

 

[HitchSlap]

The Lord gives, the Lord takes away. As the author wrote, "The Canaanites were by no means innocent. They were a people cursed of God from their very beginning. They were a vile people who practiced the basest forms of immorality." As God pronounced judgement on a wicked world in the time of Noah, and pronounced judgment on Sodom and Gomorrah, He pronounced judgement upon the Canaanites. They were like the Jihadists of today; parasites who live to destroy. Do you know what happened when Saul and his army let King Agag live when he had been ordered by God to kill ALL the Amelekites?

Things happen for a reason. The wages of sin are death. God has never killed anyone who didn't deserve it. Those who declare themselves enemies of the Lord or His people learn the justice of the Lord. You lack the understanding to know why that is because you don't have the wisdom of the Lord. With wisdom comes understanding. Are you wise enough to realize that you are a lost sinner, no better than the Amelekites or the Canaanites? A righteous man needs no savior, but there are none righteous. We are all lost until saved by the Lord.

Your justifications are resoundingly empty. I only hope you recognize the error in your thinking before it's too late for you.

 

[Speedwell]

Your justifications are resoundingly empty. I only hope you recognize the error in your thinking before it's too late for you.

But you have to understand that the OT is the history of a people, written by themselves. If they thought God commanded genocide then that's what they thought and that's what they wrote.

 

[essentialsaltes]

(5) Finally, the battle confronting Israel was not simply a religious war; it was a theocratic war. Israel was directly ruled by God and the extermination was God’s direct command

While this is an accurate description of the story, it is hardly an explanation for why this command was moral.

 

[KWCrazy]

I only hope you recognize the error in your thinking before it's too late for you.

I recognize the error in wasting my time in continued discourse with you.

 

[Skreeper]

But you have to understand that the OT is the history of a people, written by themselves. If they thought God commanded genocide then that's what they thought and that's what they wrote.

Well it is history to a degree. For example the Exodus is not considered actual history.

I hope I'm right when I assume that you do not consider the genocide, slavery... commandments actual commandments from god, just that these people claimed it.

 

[Speedwell]

Well it is history to a degree. For example the Exodus is not considered actual history.

I hope I'm right when I assume that you do not consider the genocide, slavery... commandments actual commandments from god, just that these people claimed it.

Or believed it at the time.

 

[KWCrazy]

While this is an accurate description of the story, it is hardly an explanation for why this command was moral.

It was the judgement of God.
Just as He will judge all for their sins one day, He judged the Canaanites for their sins and delivered the proper sentence.
One day He will judge you as well. If you are found to be a sinful person without salvation, your destruction is assured. That is your choice; your decision to violate God's laws. You have been informed of the consequence. If you violate man's laws and are caught there is a price to pay. Violating God's laws bears a penalty as well.

 

[HitchSlap]

But you have to understand that the OT is the history of a people, written by themselves. If they thought God commanded genocide then that's what they thought and that's what they wrote.

Right, but I was responding to someone who accepts the story a literal gospel truth.

 

[essentialsaltes]

It was the judgement of God.
Just as He will judge all for their sins one day, He judged the Canaanites for their sins and delivered the proper sentence.

I don't see how that can be the proper sentence for infants or the 'war-brides'.

 

[pitabread]

It was the judgement of God.
Just as He will judge all for their sins one day, He judged the Canaanites for their sins and delivered the proper sentence.
One day He will judge you as well. If you are found to be a sinful person without salvation, your destruction is assured. That is your choice; your decision to violate God's laws. You have been informed of the consequence. If you violate man's laws and are caught there is a price to pay. Violating God's laws bears a penalty as well.

Why does it always come down to threats? Do evangelicals really believe this is the best way of trying to reach a non-believer?

It's just sad.

 

[HitchSlap]

I don't see how that can be the proper sentence for infants or the 'war-brides'.

Hey, he's god, nothing to see here, move along, and stay in lock-step.

 

[JD16]

I don't see how that can be the proper sentence for infants or the 'war-brides'.

Is it good because God Commanded it, or does God command it because it is good?

No prizes for guessing which side of the fence KWCrazy is on.