Why can't God send us all to Heaven?

[brinny]

If Christ's bones were found and it could be demonstrated that they were his, I would have a real problem remaining a Christian. It would mean that he did not rise to life again and so we will not either. There would be no second coming. There would be no hope for any of us at all. It's true, I wouldn't be His to begin with if He were not the Son of God. All my hopes would be in vain, just as Paul wrote:

And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins. Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ are lost. If only for this life we have hope in Christ, we are to be pitied more than all men.
​

Hmmmm.....interesting. it is written that He is not here, for He is risen. I assume that means Him, bones n' all. (The tomb was empty.)

 

[Soulgazer]

If Christ's bones were found and it could be demonstrated that they were his, I would have a real problem remaining a Christian. It would mean that he did not rise to life again and so we will not either. There would be no second coming. There would be no hope for any of us at all. It's true, I wouldn't be His to begin with if He were not the Son of God. All my hopes would be in vain, just as Paul wrote:

And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins. Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ are lost. If only for this life we have hope in Christ, we are to be pitied more than all men.
​

No, I bet you would still be His Tim. Don't cut yourself short. The decency and sense of morality that you have learned, would not go away. It's steeped into your very soul, and you are a walking Gospel to Christ. Like I said, there are all forms of resurrection; God exists, and what Jesus taught, no matter if He got up and walked around after, or in the unlikely event that His bones would be discovered, would be more important than ever. He was still, and is still, the Son of God.

Paul thought Jesus would return before he died. He was wrong in that, and IMO is wrong in this too. Just one smile, makes the world a better place. I don't consider that pitiful at all.

 

[Timothew]

Hmmmm.....interesting. it is written that He is not here, for He is risen. I assume that means Him, bones n' all. (The tomb was empty.)

Yes, here is what I believe:

The Nicene Creed (with scriptural references)

We believe in (Romans 10:8-10; 1John 4:15)
ONE God, (Deuteronomy 6:4, Ephesians 4:6)
the Father (Matthew 6:9)
Almighty, (Exodus 6:3)
Maker of Heaven and Earth, (Genesis 1:1)
and of all things visible and invisible. (Colossians 1:15-16)

And in ONE Lord Jesus Christ, (Acts 11:17)
the Son of God, (Mathew 14:33; 16:16)
the Only-Begotten, (John 1:18; 3:16)
Begotten of the Father before all ages. (John 1:2)
Light of Light; (Psalm 27:1; John 8:12; Matthew 17:2,5)
True God of True God; (John 17:1-5)
Begotten, not made; (John 1:18)
of one essence with the Father (John 10:30)
by whom all things were made; (Hebrews 1:1-2)
Who for us men and for our salvation (1Timothy 2:4-5)
came down from Heaven, (John 6:33,35)
and was incarnate of the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary, (Luke 1:35)
and became man. (John 1:14)
And was crucified for us (Mark 15:25; 1Cointhians 15:3)
under Pontius Pilate, (John 19:6)
and suffered, (Mark 8:31)
and was buried. (Luke 23:53; 1Corinthians 15:4)
And the third day He rose again, according to the Scriptures. (Luke 24:1 1Corinthians 15:4)
And ascended into Heaven, (Luke 24:51; Acts 1:10)
and sits at the right hand of the Father. (Mark 16:19; Acts 7:55)
And He shall come again with glory (Matthew 24:27)
to judge the living and the dead; (Acts 10:42; 2Timothy 4:1)
whose Kingdom shall have no end. (2 Peter 1:11)

And in the Holy Spirit, (John 14:26)
the Lord, (Acts 5:3-4)v
the Giver of Life, (Genesis 1:2)
Who proceeds from the Father; (John 15:26)
Who with the Father and the Son together is worshipped and glorified; (Matthew 3:16-17)
Who spoke through the prophets. (1 Samuel 19:20 ; Ezekiel 11:5,13)

In one, (Matthew 16: 18)
holy, (1 Peter 2:5,9)
catholic*, (Mark 16:15)
and apostolic Church. (Acts 2:42; Ephesians 2:19-22)

I acknowledge one baptism for the remission of sins**. (Ephesians 4:5; Acts 2:38)
I look for the resurrection of the dead, (John 11:24; 1Corinthians 15:12-49; Hebrews 6:2; Revelation 20:5)
and the life of the world to come. (Mark 10:29-30)
AMEN. (Psalm 106:48)

*The word "catholic" (literally, "complete," "universal," or "according to the whole") refers to the universal church of the Lord Jesus Christ and not necessarily or exclusively to any particular visible denomination, institution, or doctrine.

**May be interpreted as baptism is a matter of obedience and not a requirement for salvation or as a regenerating ordinance.
​

If there is no resurrection of the dead and the life of the world to come, what is there? Be a good person because it's the right thing to do and then die at the end of my life. That's all, but I don't have to follow the dead man to do that.

 

[Timothew]

No, I bet you would still be His Tim. Don't cut yourself short. The decency and sense of morality that you have learned, would not go away. It's steeped into your very soul, and you are a walking Gospel to Christ. Like I said, there are all forms of resurrection; God exists, and what Jesus taught, no matter if He got up and walked around after, or in the unlikely event that His bones would be discovered, would be more important than ever. He was still, and is still, the Son of God.

Paul thought Jesus would return before he died. He was wrong in that, and IMO is wrong in this too.

If there is no resurrection of the dead and the life of the world to come, what is there? Be a good person because it's the right thing to do and then die at the end of my life? That's all, but I don't have to follow the dead man to do that.

 

[Timothew]

Paul thought Jesus would return before he died. He was wrong in that, and IMO is wrong in this too.

He may return before I die, and he may return after I die. Since he rose to life and will return life to me, it doesn't really matter when he will do it. If I live and he returns, I am his servant. If I die and then he returns, he raises me up and I am his servant. No big deal either way, as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Soulgazer]

If there is no resurrection of the dead and the life of the world to come, what is there? Be a good person because it's the right thing to do and then die at the end of my life? That's all, but I don't have to follow the dead man to do that.

Who said He is dead? Like I said, there are all forms of resurrection. It's hard to do, but think of your character before you met Christ, and compare it to now.

If there is a judgment, hasn't following His teachings prepared you for it? Tim, you have made MY world a better place; that counts. It's the goodness of Christ shining through. As Thomas wrote, "there is a light in a man of light, and if it does not shine, it is dark"

 

[Timothew]

Who said He is dead? Like I said, there are all forms of resurrection. It's hard to do, but think of your character before you met Christ, and compare it to now.

If there is a judgment, hasn't following His teachings prepared you for it? Tim, you have made MY world a better place; that counts.

Thanks!

I started a thread somewhere asking about the different forms of resurrection. The form I really care about is the resurrection from death to life. In greek there is no distinction between getting up from a chair and getting up from the grave, not in the word anastasis which just means "stand-up" or "stand-again".

 

[Timothew]

It's the goodness of Christ shining through. As Thomas wrote, "there is a light in a man of light, and if it does not shine, it is dark"

If the candle is blown out, there is no light. If Christ has not been raised from death, he can't be the light in us.

 

[strangertoo]

to return to the theme of the thread then, God DOES send us all to the THIRD heaven, paradise of God in the spirit, no third earth ...

but not all at ONCE , progressively ... because most will not choose to LOVE in this life, thus God and Jesus cannot come in to them because they choose to remain sinners :-

1 John 4:8 He that loveth not knoweth not God for God is love.

1 John 4:16 ...and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.

1 John 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil

there it is from St John himself , put simply for anyone to understand

but most prefer the words of sinners in smocks to the words of saints ...

it will not always be so , but in this world FEW find the way of Love [Matt 7:14] and the vast majority are destroyed [Matt 7:13]

so how few are the saints who find the way of Love, stop sinning now ? :-

Jude 1:14 ...Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying:
Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints

Jesus is more explicit at how many and who they are - Rev 7:3-8

but think about it , it means there are alive only about two thousand following Jesus in this whole world , because the church of God never dies out ... the saints then instructed to search AMONGST THE GENTILES worldwide for the descendants of the lost Hose of Israel to whom alone Jesus was sent by God :-

Matthew 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

most folks have no idea who the House of Israel are but claim to believe in Jesus ... clearly something MAJOR has gone wrong in mass religion of sinners , there are far too many for them to be saved at Jesus' return, and their religion allows them to be sinners to death , claimimg grace will cover them IF they have FAITH in what ? ... sinners in frocks drsesed up as the fAILED OT priesthood of the Levites ? ! - LOL? :-

1 John 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil

2 Timothy 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

so there we have what kills almost everyone on earth , save only tens of thousands of saints, a couple of thousand alive at any one time ... just as Jesus said MUST happen - Rev 13:3-4 , 2thess 2.

so we know that almsot all men are destroyed in this earth, including ALL religious sinners who are sincerely deluded by Satan's clever trick allowed by God... why? ... because God knows men are not ready yet to stop sinning and choose to live in Loving peace together , and God's kingdom come is NOT ready yet to persuade the many to TRY Love and SEE it works and sin does not work for anyone eventually , sin is so very short-sighted and destructive of man...

so God is content to take the 144,000 saints Jesus persuaded to stop sinning [mostly through his disciples and their disciples and so on] so god coudl baptise them to know all Truth and prophecy [John 16:13] as they could then be trialled, resisting temptation to sin because God had educated them Himself , as promised in the NEW COVENANT , that no saint is taught by saints, but by God [Heb 8:8-12]

that then rather highlights the nonsense of sinners in frocks teaching sinners things which are transparently false if one actually raeds ALL the word of God ... but then sinners are encouraged to believe, have FAITh in their sinner priests, because they have frocks like oT priests so must be right? ... unfortunately it is very easy to prove not so... but then few folks test their beliefs against every word of God , it is a massive task and who has the time ?

but it is all against scripture , not because it can't be done in a lifetime anyway, but because God says He will teach everyone under grace Himself, by His Holy Spirit... allowing NO CORRUPTION at all... compare that to teh utter DIVISION of beliefs both within and between denominations, sect, cults, groups, individuals... God's way WORKS but SLOWLY , man's religion only deludes , but god requires that delusion because man is not raedy to Love yet and the kingdom si not ready for teh billions yet that it will save [Rev 7:9-10] in the new earth AFTER their death as wages of sin that frees the many at last from bondage to sin :-

Romans 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.

one of the most powerful lines in scripture and utterly ignored by sinners ...

ironically it is only their bondage to sin that necessitates their death to free them from sin...

thus we see that those who please God by Love do not necessarily have to die at all [except if it suits God's plan that they die to show others there is no need to fear death and resurrection]

Hebrews 11:5 By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.

so countless many are saved when all are freed from death and hell in the kingdom come in the new earth , whereas only tens of thousands are saved at Jesus' return ... these then are very separate stages of resurrection and salvation of man ... totally disproving the words of sinners in smocks.....

Jesus says however that ALL creation will accept hm, so all craetion will be saved, even after judgement day saves countless billions by works in the new earth because of the kingdom come , as the scruipture says overa hundred times, God's mercy endures for all time ... Love cannot favour salvation of anyone, all MUST be saved else God has failed , and that is of course impossible, as God has said... He has the will and the means, and no-one can stop Him persuading everyone to try Love and find out is is better for each and every one of us in the world where we Love one another rather than sin against one another all our lives, as sinners teach men to do by mass religion of sinners...

so we find Jesus' promise that all will accept him eventually, even those whose final baptism of fire is the gruesome evil of their own evil in the 'lake of fire' , final poetic justice for the most committed evil amongst men, who deny Love even after resurrection by God and spirit baptism of all flesh [Joel 2:28] to know all truth and God's word on prophecy ...[John 16:13]

Revelation 5:13 And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb to the end of time ...

 

[Soulgazer]

If the candle is blown out, there is no light. If Christ has not been raised from death, he can't be the light in us.

Well, we know He was raised from the dead, because He is here with us. At least in you my friend, as you try to show the enduring love of God. I am so much better than I was, but the race is not won, and even as an old man, I still stumble and fall.

To go to the Gospel of John, Thomas set conditions in which he would continue to believe. My lesson from that, is not to be like Thomas or the Pharisee(Who expected a great military leader), and accept Christ however He reveals Himself.

 

[strangertoo]

No, I bet you would still be His Tim. Don't cut yourself short. The decency and sense of morality that you have learned, would not go away. It's steeped into your very soul, and you are a walking Gospel to Christ. Like I said, there are all forms of resurrection; God exists, and what Jesus taught, no matter if He got up and walked around after, or in the unlikely event that His bones would be discovered, would be more important than ever. He was still, and is still, the Son of God.

Paul thought Jesus would return before he died. He was wrong in that, and IMO is wrong in this too. Just one smile, makes the world a better place. I don't consider that pitiful at all.

I think the main thing to realise is that God will not change His mind , all mankind will however turn against sin when they discover Love is better by far for each and every one ... thus it is rather pointless and indeed quite evil to judge now just because almost all are sinners now and only few follow Christ by ceasing sin now...

God undertakes to convince EVERYONE to change to Love eventually, that is God's Love that He CANNOT give up on anyone else He would not be worthy as God of Love... it is mankind who underestimates the power of Love t overcome all eveil in all men, God who has the foolproof plan todeal with EVERYONE Lovingly , fairly ...equally ... some He requires to help as royal priests in teh kingdom when billions are saved , so He sent Jesus to get the ones He said from the beginning will choose love now, stop sinning so He can tach them Himself Love of all, what it MEANS NOW , His plan, the future [John 16:13]

and that is the point that makes nonsense of mankind's mass religion of sinners taught by sinners, God will teach the FEW saints Himself so there is no possibility of CORRUPTION or lasting division as is rife in the churches of sinners...

Hebrews 8:11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.

1 John 4:16... he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.

1 Thessalonians 4:9 But as touching brotherly love ye need not that I write unto you: for ye yourselves are taught of God to love one another.

John 6:45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.

the simple Truth and SEAL of God si that NO-ONE can enter the kingdom without God inside, baptism of the spirit , and no-one gets baptised of the spirit until they stop all sin and repent fully so as not to sin again ...

2 Timothy 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

 

[Godchaser_70]

I'm a Christian but this has bothered me all my life. If God loves us all and wants us all to go to Heaven and to be saved, and if He is all powerful why did he make Hell? Why did he have to make his son suffer?

Don't get offended by this question. I don't know how else to put it into words. Thanks

The bible speaks that hell was created for the devil and his angels,
Matthew 25:41

King James Version (KJV)

41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:


also there is
Revelation 12:9

King James Version (KJV)

9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

but due to people and the life they choose they send themselves there,
by being disobedient and not repenting of there sins, and live the way
God wants us to. God makes us do nothing we want to do, he loves us so
much that he gives us choices. we have the free will to choose.
and when we don't go the way God chooses for us it kills us and hurts God in the long run.

also remember that it states this
John 3:16

King James Version (KJV)

16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

god sent him to basically rescue us from our sinful lives.

ps. at least you believe there is a heaven and a hell. some dont even believe that.

 

[nhisname]

I'm a Christian but this has bothered me all my life. If God loves us all and wants us all to go to Heaven and to be saved, and if He is all powerful why did he make Hell? Why did he have to make his son suffer?

Don't get offended by this question. I don't know how else to put it into words. Thanks

God made us for his good pleasure and fellowship, man made the choice to choose sin. If God didn't love us he wouldn't have sent his son as sacrifice for sin. God freely forgives us our sin and remembers them no more but it is our choice to choose just like in the garden of which way we want to live. As far as hell I don't think people are taking eternity as seriously as they should. Christ warns us several times about hell.

 

[Godchaser_70]

some like my brother in law, and now he has my sister believing it.
dont believe hell is real. I know when you look up hell it is the grave. but they are not
looking at it spiritually, it concerns me how they act.

please do pray for them, they also think all is going to heaven.

 

[brinny]

some like my brother in law, and now he has my sister believing it.
dont believe hell is real. I know when you look up hell it is the grave. but they are not
looking at it spiritually, it concerns me how they act.

please do pray for them, they also think all is going to heaven.

Praying, dear heart (((hug)))

 

[Soulgazer]

I think the main thing to realise is that God will not change His mind , all mankind will however turn against sin when they discover Love is better by far for each and every one ... thus it is rather pointless and indeed quite evil to judge now just because almost all are sinners now and only few follow Christ by ceasing sin now...

God undertakes to convince EVERYONE to change to Love eventually, that is God's Love that He CANNOT give up on anyone else He would not be worthy as God of Love... it is mankind who underestimates the power of Love t overcome all eveil in all men, God who has the foolproof plan todeal with EVERYONE Lovingly , fairly ...equally ... some He requires to help as royal priests in teh kingdom when billions are saved , so He sent Jesus to get the ones He said from the beginning will choose love now, stop sinning so He can tach them Himself Love of all, what it MEANS NOW , His plan, the future [John 16:13]

and that is the point that makes nonsense of mankind's mass religion of sinners taught by sinners, God will teach the FEW saints Himself so there is no possibility of CORRUPTION or lasting division as is rife in the churches of sinners...

Hebrews 8:11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.

1 John 4:16... he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.

1 Thessalonians 4:9 But as touching brotherly love ye need not that I write unto you: for ye yourselves are taught of God to love one another.

John 6:45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.

the simple Truth and SEAL of God si that NO-ONE can enter the kingdom without God inside, baptism of the spirit , and no-one gets baptised of the spirit until they stop all sin and repent fully so as not to sin again ...

2 Timothy 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Thanks. I consider this to be one of the most important verses in the Bible;1 John 4:16... he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.


So many people put conditions on God. God doesn't exist under our conditions; (God created man. Then men create God. That is the way it is in the world - men make gods and worship their creation. It would be fitting for the gods to worship men!~ Philip)

What we see, we see through a glass darkly. A man either learns to Love, or He does not. That does not stop the True God from Loving him. God has all eternity and infinite resources to work on a soul; I don't know what the final disposition will ultimately be, other than what a few inspired men wrote. But a man still writes through the lens of a man, so I am content to leave it up to God.

The promise of Heaven, or the fear of Hell? That's not why I exist. That to me, is putting the cart before the horse.

 

[Timothew]

some like my brother in law, and now he has my sister believing it.
dont believe hell is real. I know when you look up hell it is the grave. but they are not
looking at it spiritually, it concerns me how they act.

please do pray for them, they also think all is going to heaven.

Are you my sis-in-law from OK? If so, don't worry. I haven't been able to show my wife (your sister - KW), that hell is really the grave, the wages of sin is death, and there is no eternal torture in the hot place. She's being really stubborn about all of this! God Bless you sister!

 

[Soulgazer]

Jesus said that men do the works of their father. I personally could not torture anybody, and the thought of watching even the most evil of men squirm in agony for eternity makes me want to puke. Does this mean God is not my Father?

 

[Timothew]

Jesus said that men do the works of their father. I personally could not torture anybody, and the thought of watching even the most evil of men squirm in agony for eternity makes me want to puke. Does this mean God is not my Father?

I think it means that God is your father. But I guess you weren't asking me.

 

[Soulgazer]

I think it means that God is your father. But I guess you weren't asking me.

Thanks Tim!