Why can't God send us all to Heaven?

[strangertoo]

Jesus didn't come to earth to "die a martyr's death". It wasn't about three hours on the cross. It wasn't about "teachings". In Revelation we read how He returns as Conqueror. It is also written that He paraded His enemy's defeat in the sight of all of heaven. When He said "It is finished" He wasn't talking about breathing His last breath and dying.

His Word, from beginning to end, is fulfilled when He shed his blood. His death is predicted in Isaiah. So is his birth. He is defined in ways no one has been defined, from the beginning. For this was no ordinary man. in fact He wasn't a man, born as any other man. For he was born of a virgin.

God, through his only begotten Son, did what we could never do. He took upon Himself our curse, and death (through his Son). Who else could have done it?

He defeated the enemy. As it is written, Jesus now sits at the right hand of God the Father. He is our Defender against the accuser.

What was accomplished on the cross at the shedding of his blood was a turning of death and the curse into a tailspin, spinning backwards what began at the fall, sending it back from whence it came, and taking with it the one from which it generated.

The entire Bible, from beginning to end, like a glorious tapestry, of eternal proportions, unrolls this beautiful promise right before our very eyes. Hidden within it are glimpses of this God Who rejoices over us with singing, wears mercy like a cloak, and Who moved heaven and earth to once again, walk with us in a garden, in the cool of the day.

A glimpse like this one:

"He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God?" ~Micah 6:8

Jesus said both why he came and for what he will return :-

Matthew 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Rev 7:3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.
4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.

why ?

because God promised that He would use israel as the priests and kings in His kingdom come :-

Exodus 19:6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.

now most people today think Israel is the 'Jews' , but the Jews [House of Judah] were and still are hated by the House of Israel who never accepted God, Judaism , or the Jews, even after God sccattered them worldwide to become gentiles merged into gentile nations all over :-

Deuteronomy 28:64 And the LORD shall scatter thee among all people, from the one end of the earth even unto the other; and there thou shalt serve other gods, which neither thou nor thy fathers have known, even wood and stone.

Most Jews do not acknowledge the House of Israel even today, yet their Messiah was sent to find the House of Israel, why ? :-

Ezekiel 37:22 And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all:

this then is the biblical meaning of the Christ [anointed - called this because of the ritual anointing of al kings of Israel ]

this then is why Jesus said that the TRUE gospel would always include his anointing by Mary :-

Mark 14:9 Verily I say unto you, Wheresoever this gospel shall be preached throughout the whole world, this also that she hath done shall be spoken of for a memorial of her.

NOTE then , that this is NOT preached in any mass church of sinners . yet another sign set by Jesus [alongside the sign of Jonah that Jesus was THREE NIGHTS in the grave, when sinners claim it was only two , count the nights between friday and sunday ... two ! ... then look again at pagan easter bunnies in place of the sacrificial Lamb of God at passover as recorded that Jesus set as his memorial]

THIS world is given over by God to sinners who trail the few saints of God mostly to unjust death like Jesus , in perfection of their Love , baptism of fire ...

Luke 3:16 John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire:

sinners do not understand that 'fire' is simply what conscience does, God truth of Love burning inside against the will to sin because one is tempted...

sinners teach sin is endlessly forgiven , that one does not have to stop ... the bile says grace is ONLY for those whose fathers broke the old covenant , the children of Israel, both Jews and the larger ,now-paganised as 'gentile' lost House of Israel ...

so Jews do not know which 20,000 or so Jews God sees as saints because they stopped sinning, nor des any gentile know who are the 120,000 or so gentile saints who are thousands of years ago descended from the House fo Israel when it was a nation , the far larger part of Israel...

 

[brinny]

Jesus said both why he came and for what he will return :-

Matthew 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Rev 7:3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.
4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.

why ?

because God promised that He would use israel as the priests and kings in His kingdom come :-

Exodus 19:6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.

now most people today think Israel is the 'Jews' , but the Jews [House of Judah] were and still are hated by the House of Israel who never accepted God, Judaism , or the Jews, even after God sccattered them worldwide to become gentiles merged into gentile nations all over :-

Deuteronomy 28:64 And the LORD shall scatter thee among all people, from the one end of the earth even unto the other; and there thou shalt serve other gods, which neither thou nor thy fathers have known, even wood and stone.

Most Jews do not acknowledge the House of Israel even today, yet their Messiah was sent to find the House of Israel, why ? :-

Ezekiel 37:22 And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all:

this then is the biblical meaning of the Christ [anointed - called this because of the ritual anointing of al kings of Israel ]

this then is why Jesus said that the TRUE gospel would always include his anointing by Mary :-

Mark 14:9 Verily I say unto you, Wheresoever this gospel shall be preached throughout the whole world, this also that she hath done shall be spoken of for a memorial of her.

NOTE then , that this is NOT preached in any mass church of sinners . yet another sign set by Jesus [alongside the sign of Jonah that Jesus was THREE NIGHTS in the grave, when sinners claim it was only two , count the nights between friday and sunday ... two ! ... then look again at pagan easter bunnies in place of the sacrificial Lamb of God at passover as recorded that Jesus set as his memorial]

THIS world is given over by God to sinners who trail the few saints of God mostly to unjust death like Jesus , in perfection of their Love , baptism of fire ...

Luke 3:16 John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire:

sinners do not understand that 'fire' is simply what conscience does, God truth of Love burning inside against the will to sin because one is tempted...

sinners teach sin is endlessly forgiven , that one does not have to stop ... the bile says grace is ONLY for those whose fathers broke the old covenant , the children of Israel, both Jews and the larger ,now-paganised as 'gentile' lost House of Israel ...

so Jews do not know which 20,000 or so Jews God sees as saints because they stopped sinning, nor des any gentile know who are the 120,000 or so gentile saints who are thousands of years ago descended from the House fo Israel when it was a nation , the far larger part of Israel...

Thank you for sharing your wealth of studying from his Word. He will surely bless you. What stands out for me is God's grace, that supersedes even our understanding, and how indeed, He, in His inexplicable mercy, used Israel to "bless" the world, for through Israel came our Messiah. It fits right in with this gloriously exquisite verse:

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." ~John 3:16

 

[strangertoo]

Thank you for sharing your wealth of studying from his Word. He will surely bless you. What stands out for me is God's grace, that supersedes even our understanding, and how indeed, He, in His inexplicable mercy, used Israel to "bless" the world, for through Israel came our Messiah. It fits right in with this gloriously exquisite verse:

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." ~John 3:16

As for studying, it is useless without spirit baptism because the scripture we know is altered by sinners ... copies we have differ in many places , so are not faithful ,but manipulated by Satan... the scripture is robust in that it repaets the same message of Love , not sin , Jesus , not Satan, good , not evil , in countless different ways, far too many for even the wittiest sinner to hide ...but it does mean that it would be more than a lifetime's work to undo all the damage of biased translaton, editing, mistranslation, adding and taking away just as God warns only leads on to a sinner's death without baptism of the spirit ...

thus it is that there are countless 'exegeses' of scripture forming countless cults of division in mass religion of sinners , even mass denominations led astray by sinners dressed up as the failed Levitical priesthood because they think that somehow gives them authority for self-ordained priesthoods of sinners, not saints ... and it is more than gross the indecency of it, just one example, the pope had to send out an encyclical saying priests must not expose the sodomy by priests of choir boys ... can one believe how many folk claim faith in this man who also claims to be in place of the son of God ? [Vicarius Filii Dei = in place of the son of God , sums to 666 in Latin... do we need anyone in place of Christ ? [='antchristos' in Greek] when we have Christ ? ]

Jesus warned us that all the world will worship a false God and Christ image created by Satan :-

Rev 13 3 ...and all the world wondered after the beast.
4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?

note the criterion of belief of sinners, whoever has the military power and force of law of men gets believed in by the many ...

remarkably the process of uniting world religion is in progress already , but very few look at these words of Jesus about where it ends up, worship of a false God , Satan the old dragon in disguise as Christ returned , which Jesus warned MUST happen before his return...

what is so insidious and powerful about thia is not simply that effective permission to continue sinning is given by authorities , so longas one pays weekly one's dues and goes through confession of that which one mostly has no effective intention of stopping doing...

that then is the simple division of mankind which Jesus spoke of, perfected saints from continual sinners :-

Luke 12:51 Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division:

that is not to say that there will not be peace in the new earth, only that God requires but a FEW [Matt 7:14, Jude 1:14, Rev 7:3-8] saints to be perfected in love in baptism of fire by sinners in 'authority' , who have killed and tortured saints ever since Jesus came , still do , and it will get worse toward the end :-

Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

beheading is only legal under Sharia law [for 'heresy'] , so the unity of religion and world power [NWO?] is required for the execution of modern saints this way once the antichrist has world power and a single world religion with power, like the Roman state had, to kill 'heretic' Hebrew Christian saints who would not worship on Sundays but kept holy sabbaths [annual and weekly] as God commands are memorials for all time...

so again we find holy days and rites ALL replaced with pagan gods' days in the paganised state religion that stole the name of 'Christianity' for its sinners , from the saints who follow Jesus...

the takeover by Satan began nearly two thousand years ago ... undoing the damage is impossible and not what God has in mind anyway... for it is very convenient that those committed to continual sin separate themselves to pagan religion , God requires DIVISION in THIS world as Jesus says ...

as for the blessings of Loving others , it is all-too-apparent to anyone who stops sinning against folks... rather obvious really, but many spurn it and live grey lives as slaves to sinners with power of fear and force over those afraid of death and pain so much that they cannot see their own inner truth from God about Love, their conscience, their spirit, their heart of Love, their mind watching the world die under rulership by Satan...

empty and very transient victory over almost all men and the whole earth for Satan, he has but three and a half years before strangers kill him for blasphemy , and the world he acquired by deceit is dying already anyway because of the sin of man against man and Nature [on which we utterly depended for food despite the modern myths of evil men that man can live by sin against everything , against everyone who disagrees like the few saints do , and God does ... ]

but you see God never intended to save more than tens of thousands of perfected souls from this earth at Jesus' return [Jude 1:14, Rev 7:3-8]

these FEW are just how many God requires as kings and priests of the kingdom, which when ready in the new earth, after a thousand yaers of perfection without any sinners or satan, begins the massive work of saving the many [Rev 7:9-10] resurrected after a thousand years although they were destroyed [Matt 7:13] in the end of this earth

the 'secret', simply that the spirit of a man is of God , so is endless as God ... destruction of the body signifies very little but the end of the soul [life] until it is restored in the new earth BY THE SPIRIT :-

Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

Genesis 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath [ 'ruah' - spirit] of life; and man became a living soul.

resurrection of sinners is the release of ALL from hell and death , freed from sin by death , to be judged by WORKS of Love in the new earth kingdom come ... this is how God saves the many sinners- LATER ! -Rev 7:9-10

20:13 and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

no need for grace because sinners are paid the wages of sin in death :-

Romans 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.

so we find in the new covenant of grace that it is ONLY with those whose fathers broke the old covenant , albeit the descendants of the House of Israel it mentions explicitly are living as gentiles, indistinguishable from gentiles ... except to God of course [and conceivably by Genetics, Israel is involved now in the research] ... Heb 8:8-12 copied from Jer 31:31-34... VERY INTERESTING to see what God says is HIS covenant of grace, verey different indeed from what sinners preach worldwide already

So the truth of Jesus is taht salvation is a POWER process, the power of love finally overcomes ALL because God si RIGHT, Love is a better way for all t6o live than sin against one another in the 'rat-race' world of Satan that eventually destroys everything, everyone, even the evil men who run it under Satan [NWO?] ...

Jesus' truth then , that all will eventualy accept him, but that salvationis PROGRESSIVE , not all at once... one man with God saves 144,000 perfected in Love in this earth ... each of them saves a smilar number in the new earth... that is 20 billion, comparable to the number of human beings that ever lived...

What sinners taech then is not only contrary to scripture , but impossible ... God knows man is mostly not readyy to stop sinning now , just a few, and that is enough to set up the kingdom and save all men later, as all will accept Jesus eventually :-

Philippians 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;

Revelation 5:13 And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.

1 Timothy 4:10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

so those that believe the scripture and stop sinning now are given the special role of priests and kings in the kingdom, but what sinners cannot explain [ironically] is why every sinner is released from hell and who are the billions who are saved by the minstry of the saints of THIS earth in the new earth kingdom come...

because the MANY are destroyed in this earth [Matt 7:13] and only the FEW find the way, [Matt 7:14]

BUT countless MANY are saved in the new earth even by judgement day -Rev 7:9-10] who can nly be those destroyed in this earth because of the numbers, and they are served and ruled by Love of the FEW saved from this earth...

so it is impossible to see the Love of God from mass religion of sinners [who will die sinners still hoping grace is for them, but scripture says it is not]

rather stop sinning , and God Himself will teach one His truth one-on-one, as in the new covenant it says, NO-ONE under grace teaches anyone under frace, because God does so ... so read it and believe it, not the words of sinners worldwide who MUST die for wages of continued sin and be saved LATER , not now ...

2 Timothy 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

 

[Soulgazer]

As for studying, it is useless without spirit baptism because the scripture we know is altered by sinners ... copies we have differ in many places , so are not faithful ,but manipulated by Satan... the scripture is robust in that it repaets the same message of Love , not sin , Jesus , not Satan, good , not evil , in countless different ways, far too many for even the wittiest sinner to hide ...but it does mean that it would be more than a lifetime's work to undo all the damage of biased translaton, editing, mistranslation, adding and taking away just as God warns only leads on to a sinner's death without baptism of the spirit ...

thus it is that there are countless 'exegeses' of scripture forming countless cults of division in mass religion of sinners , even mass denominations led astray by sinners dressed up as the failed Levitical priesthood because they think that somehow gives them authority for self-ordained priesthoods of sinners, not saints ... and it is more than gross the indecency of it, just one example, the pope had to send out an encyclical saying priests must not expose the sodomy by priests of choir boys ... can one believe how many folk claim faith in this man who also claims to be in place of the son of God ? [Vicarius Filii Dei = in place of the son of God , sums to 666 in Latin... do we need anyone in place of Christ ? [='antchristos' in Greek] when we have Christ ? ]

Jesus warned us that all the world will worship a false God and Christ image created by Satan :-

Rev 13 3 ...and all the world wondered after the beast.
4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?

note the criterion of belief of sinners, whoever has the military power and force of law of men gets believed in by the many ...

remarkably the process of uniting world religion is in progress already , but very few look at these words of Jesus about where it ends up, worship of a false God , Satan the old dragon in disguise as Christ returned , which Jesus warned MUST happen before his return...

what is so insidious and powerful about thia is not simply that effective permission to continue sinning is given by authorities , so longas one pays weekly one's dues and goes through confession of that which one mostly has no effective intention of stopping doing...

that then is the simple division of mankind which Jesus spoke of, perfected saints from continual sinners :-

Luke 12:51 Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division:

that is not to say that there will not be peace in the new earth, only that God requires but a FEW [Matt 7:14, Jude 1:14, Rev 7:3-8] saints to be perfected in love in baptism of fire by sinners in 'authority' , who have killed and tortured saints ever since Jesus came , still do , and it will get worse toward the end :-

Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

beheading is only legal under Sharia law [for 'heresy'] , so the unity of religion and world power [NWO?] is required for the execution of modern saints this way once the antichrist has world power and a single world religion with power, like the Roman state had, to kill 'heretic' Hebrew Christian saints who would not worship on Sundays but kept holy sabbaths [annual and weekly] as God commands are memorials for all time...

so again we find holy days and rites ALL replaced with pagan gods' days in the paganised state religion that stole the name of 'Christianity' for its sinners , from the saints who follow Jesus...

the takeover by Satan began nearly two thousand years ago ... undoing the damage is impossible and not what God has in mind anyway... for it is very convenient that those committed to continual sin separate themselves to pagan religion , God requires DIVISION in THIS world as Jesus says ...

as for the blessings of Loving others , it is all-too-apparent to anyone who stops sinning against folks... rather obvious really, but many spurn it and live grey lives as slaves to sinners with power of fear and force over those afraid of death and pain so much that they cannot see their own inner truth from God about Love, their conscience, their spirit, their heart of Love, their mind watching the world die under rulership by Satan...

empty and very transient victory over almost all men and the whole earth for Satan, he has but three and a half years before strangers kill him for blasphemy , and the world he acquired by deceit is dying already anyway because of the sin of man against man and Nature [on which we utterly depended for food despite the modern myths of evil men that man can live by sin against everything , against everyone who disagrees like the few saints do , and God does ... ]

but you see God never intended to save more than tens of thousands of perfected souls from this earth at Jesus' return [Jude 1:14, Rev 7:3-8]

these FEW are just how many God requires as kings and priests of the kingdom, which when ready in the new earth, after a thousand yaers of perfection without any sinners or satan, begins the massive work of saving the many [Rev 7:9-10] resurrected after a thousand years although they were destroyed [Matt 7:13] in the end of this earth

the 'secret', simply that the spirit of a man is of God , so is endless as God ... destruction of the body signifies very little but the end of the soul [life] until it is restored in the new earth BY THE SPIRIT :-

Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

Genesis 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath [ 'ruah' - spirit] of life; and man became a living soul.

resurrection of sinners is the release of ALL from hell and death , freed from sin by death , to be judged by WORKS of Love in the new earth kingdom come ... this is how God saves the many sinners- LATER ! -Rev 7:9-10

20:13 and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

no need for grace because sinners are paid the wages of sin in death :-

Romans 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.

so we find in the new covenant of grace that it is ONLY with those whose fathers broke the old covenant , albeit the descendants of the House of Israel it mentions explicitly are living as gentiles, indistinguishable from gentiles ... except to God of course [and conceivably by Genetics, Israel is involved now in the research] ... Heb 8:8-12 copied from Jer 31:31-34... VERY INTERESTING to see what God says is HIS covenant of grace, verey different indeed from what sinners preach worldwide already

So the truth of Jesus is taht salvation is a POWER process, the power of love finally overcomes ALL because God si RIGHT, Love is a better way for all t6o live than sin against one another in the 'rat-race' world of Satan that eventually destroys everything, everyone, even the evil men who run it under Satan [NWO?] ...

Jesus' truth then , that all will eventualy accept him, but that salvationis PROGRESSIVE , not all at once... one man with God saves 144,000 perfected in Love in this earth ... each of them saves a smilar number in the new earth... that is 20 billion, comparable to the number of human beings that ever lived...

What sinners taech then is not only contrary to scripture , but impossible ... God knows man is mostly not readyy to stop sinning now , just a few, and that is enough to set up the kingdom and save all men later, as all will accept Jesus eventually :-

Philippians 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;

Revelation 5:13 And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.

1 Timothy 4:10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

so those that believe the scripture and stop sinning now are given the special role of priests and kings in the kingdom, but what sinners cannot explain [ironically] is why every sinner is released from hell and who are the billions who are saved by the minstry of the saints of THIS earth in the new earth kingdom come...

because the MANY are destroyed in this earth [Matt 7:13] and only the FEW find the way, [Matt 7:14]

BUT countless MANY are saved in the new earth even by judgement day -Rev 7:9-10] who can nly be those destroyed in this earth because of the numbers, and they are served and ruled by Love of the FEW saved from this earth...

so it is impossible to see the Love of God from mass religion of sinners [who will die sinners still hoping grace is for them, but scripture says it is not]

rather stop sinning , and God Himself will teach one His truth one-on-one, as in the new covenant it says, NO-ONE under grace teaches anyone under frace, because God does so ... so read it and believe it, not the words of sinners worldwide who MUST die for wages of continued sin and be saved LATER , not now ...

2 Timothy 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]143.[/FONT] [FONT=Times New Roman, serif]If someone becomes a[/FONT] [FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Son of the Bridal-Chamber, he shall receive the Light. If one does not receive it in these places, he will not be able to obtain it in the other place. He who has received that Light shall not be seen, nor shall they be able to seize him; nor shall anyone be able to disturb this one of this nature, even if he socializes in the world. And furthermore, (when) he leaves the world he has already received the truth via the images. The world has become eternity, because the[/FONT] [FONT=Times New Roman, serif]fullness is for him the eternal. And it is thus revealed to him individually—not hidden in the darkness (or) the night, but rather hidden in a Perfect Day and a Holy Light.[/FONT] [FONT=Times New Roman, serif](Ph 85; hyperlinear)[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif][/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif][/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]~Philip. It just seemed to go so well.
[/FONT]

 

[stan1953]

well FYI , I already pointed out the scripture that proves that the lost House of Israel are 'gentiles' these days, have been for thousands of years
It's a sad shame that you don't bother to at least read the bible to find your answers , is it too much to ask that you read the four verses of the new covenant copied into the NT - Heb 8:8-12 ?

I read the scripture you supplied. It is NOT germain or in context with the discussion at hand.

also it is very hard to discuss with you because you refuse to read what I wrote ... surely you must understand that is your failure and makes the discussion pointless ...

As I said, I HAVE read the scriptures you have previously supplied. I have also told you that they are NOT taken within context and that your way of taking parts of verses and using them to support your doctrine is called eisegesis and is NOT an acceptable form of biblical hermaneutics.

Matthew 7:23
Luke 13:27

Matthew 7:23, needs to be read with 21 & 22 to get the proper context. You may want to read verse 1 first though, in order to really get the full impact of what Jesus expects from His disciples.
Luke 13:27, is talking to the Jews and their belief that their Laws will end up saving them. Clearly in verses 28-30, Jesus is telling these Jews that Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, and ALL the prophets, will have a place at the Great Feast, but the ones who believed in legislated morality would have no place in God's Kingdom. I look forwad to being there and seeing them all.

if you read even the new covenant you will find there are 24 Hebrew elders with God who were saved under the old covenant long before the new covenant arrived [Jer 31:31-34]

God saved under the Old Covenant based on their belief in His promise.
The New covenant is for ALL as Paul states in Romans 2:12-16, All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. 13 For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. 14 (Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.) 16 This will take place on the day when God judges people’s secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.

Indeed the scripture is very useful indeed , but it is you who refuses to READ IT ALL as ONE TRUTH of God , realising that even within itself it shows up the many translation errors , some every deliberate by sinners because sinners believe differently than ALL that is written and sinnesr translated the scriptures , not saints .... saints have no need to , as the new covenant states, so READ IT PLEASE

Funny you say we need to read it ALL but you ALWAYS quote individual verses. How do you know that there are errors in whatever English version you use? Are you fluent in the Greek the Bible uses? I have been adding to your scriptural quotes to give them better context but you insist on using small parts of scritpure over and over again. Are you claiming that GOD has given you ALL your understanding and translations of scripture?

No saint ever claimed to be without sin , that is God's call what PAST sin He forgives when we STOP sinning , so you are misunderstanding this scripture ... if we CLAIMED to be without sin that would be a sin of blasphemy and we would make ourselves sinners by that statement... but that has nothing to do with the written FACT in scripture that the FOUNDATION of God is to STOP sinning , God cannot come within one until one stops sinning, and without this spirit baptism to know all truth from God [John 16:13] on simply CANNOT enter the kingdom of God

NOT what I asked. I asked if you are a sinner? Paul said he was. Romans 7:14-25,
We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. 15 I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. 16 And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. 17 As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. 18 For I know that good itself does not dwell in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. 19 For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing. 20 Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.
21 So I find this law at work: Although I want to do good, evil is right there with me. 22 For in my inner being I delight in God’s law; 23 but I see another law at work in me, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within me. 24 What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body that is subject to death? 25 Thanks be to God, who delivers me through Jesus Christ our Lord!
So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God’s law, but in my sinful nature a slave to the law of sin.

John 3:5 thus sinners do not take dying to sin seriously in water baptism, continue sinning, and can never be baptised of the spirit because they are unrighteous from sinning after water baptism , and indeed are unlikely indeed to ever stop sinning in this life because they lied in their water baptism... [equally absurd of course is water baptism of babies, how can they die to sin when they have no conception of what that would mean and likely have no sin yet either]

You insert intent into scripture that is NOT there. This whole statement is NOT supported in scripture. I am a sinner, saved by grace, water baptised and infilled with the Holy Spirit. Jesus said in Matthew 28:18-20, 18 Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”
You may note here that the teaching and obedience comes AFTER their salvation and water baptism.

I have quoted far more than a few words , but what is significant is that you still ignore all that I quote from God's words , think nothing of doing that, and continue to state things which are not in scripture ... the above scripture says exactly what I have pointed out that God has said, no-one who is born of God will commit sin any more because the spirit will not enter anyone until they stop sinning ... now READ , if a righteous man sins again at all then his righteousness is LOST

I have addressed ALL your words, NOT ignored them. Maybe you haven't bothered to actually read what I have written? The above scripture does NOT convey what you have said and I have addressed that. You can keep saying it but it doesn't make it fact. I just showed you by scripture in Matthew 28 that our walk of obedience comes AFTER salvation, water baptism and infilling of the Holy Spirit, just as it always has. The blood of Christ is what makes us justifed, NOT a so-called sinless nature. Jesus told the following parable in Luke 18:9-14, maybe you will get His intent,
To some who were confident of their own righteousness and looked down on everyone else, Jesus told this parable: 10 “Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. 11 The Pharisee stood by himself and prayed: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other people—robbers, evildoers, adulterers—or even like this tax collector. 12 I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get.’
13 “But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, ‘God, have mercy on me, a sinner.’
14 “I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God. For all those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.”

but you want to pretend NO-ONE is righteous or even that sinners are righteous even if they are continual sinners, so long as the SAY they believe in Jesus ... the scripture never says that , but says the opposite ... ANY sin destroys righteousness

Matthew 9:13
But go and learn what this means: ‘I desire mercy, not sacrifice.’ For I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners.”

Romans 3:10
“There is no one righteous, not even one;
I use this to demonstrate how cherry picking does not do justice to God's word or the person that does so. This would mean Jesus was NOT righteous.

as for grace, the scripture says all have sinned [hyperbole as we know Jesus has not sinned] but grcae is forgiveness, remission , of PAST sin ... obviously sin is only past once one STOPS
Romans 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

Again you cherry pick and take scripture OUT of context. As you said before, we need to use the WHOLE Bible yet you continue to use single verses to make a point. You also seem to not really comprehend the old English of the Bible you use to quote scripture. Romans 3:25 states, God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement, through the shedding of his blood —to be received by faith. He did this to demonstrate his righteousness, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished - and goes on to explain in verse 26, -he did it to demonstrate his righteousness at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus. He is talking about those Jews of the OT who believed the promise.

clearly the churches of sinners led by sinners all DISAGREE , a logically absolute proof of the MASSIVE absence of the Holy Spirit that would IN LIFE unite them by revealing all truth and the future [John 16:13] ... that is PRACTICAL ABSOLUTE proof of the scriptural statements that God cannot come within anyone who is stll a sinner, anyone who refuses to love :-
1 John 4:8
1 John 3:8

Redundancy will not make what you say any truer. Your premise is flawed as is your conclusion. I've explained these verses before.

it hardly matters what name you give it, the spirit returns to be with God , and the body vanishes ... I fail to see what difference in meaning there is here , perhaps you would explain your problem

Oh I see...this is how you deal with scripture (Greek manuscript) that you can't or won't accept? It hardly matters? It is obvious you FAIL to see, but that makes the problem yours my friend, NOT mine.

well , God talks to some 144,000 in this life , you should not be surprised if people write much the same stuff independently as a result of inspiration by ONE God ...

Well well... a little JW doctrine springs up. That may explain some of your thought patterns.

wrong as it happens :-
Proverbs 1:22 How long, ye simple ones, will ye love simplicity? and the scorners delight in their scorning, and fools hate knowledge?

I can do that as well, The law of the LORD is perfect, refreshing the soul. The statutes of the LORD are trustworthy, making wise the simple. Psalm 19:7

all the scripture says is , to paraphrase, that no-one dies twice before judgement day .... your private re-interpretation is obviously false because some die a SECOND death ...

Now you're paraphrasing? Funny I thought God's word was good enough for you. I thought God told you everything it says. You figure God didn't get this verse correctly so you have to PARAPHRASE it for Him???
It says "once to die, and THEN the judgement". My PRIVATE interpretation?
The Greek word, hapax, means ONCE.

I didn't invent the number, I showed you how it is deduced from scripture of God... and how the scripture explains who the prophets are , again ther are some problems because of translation [by sinners] , but you should know that by now I guess ...

Well again your eisegesis is how you arrived at your deduction.


Here's what deductive logic does for you.

1. ALL men are mortal
2. Jesus is a man
3. Therefore, Jesus is mortal

I'm sure you won't see this, but if God meant 2000 He would have said 2000. He doesn't need to couch His word in mystery. The only mystery is what people are looking for.

but it is mistaken according to other scriptures , and God's word is ONE whole truth, not subject to ANY interpretation by sinners...

Maybe according to you, but NOT according to other scriptures, which you continually take OUT of context.
You keep saying "one whole truth", but you use parts of God's word all the time, OUT of context, to support YOUR assertions. I guess if someone doesn't consider themselves a sinner then they must think it is OK for them to interpret. Funny how that works.

Psalm 101:5

Whoever slanders their neighbor in secret, I will put to silence; whoever has haughty eyes and a proud heart, I will not tolerate.

 

[stan1953]

As I've told you many times already , that is God's call , not mine or yours... and as I've also tried to explain patiently , this is NOT personal, we are simply discussing what scripture means ... we are NOT allowed to discuss one another, nor is anything but loss to come from such puerile games ... so PLEASE STOP trying to make it personal else the moderators will take action against you for breaking the rules here...
quite true, but what you did not notice is that only PAST sins are remitted [at God's discretion, not ours]

Romans 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

you simply have to READ ALL the scripture to get God's MEANING and you don't seem to have raed any of teh mANY scriptures I pointed out to you here else you would see taht you are following the words of sinners in mass churches of sinners, not EVERY word of God in the scripture

but unravelling the mess sinners made of the holy word of God is more than a lifetime's work IF you don't stop sinning ...

IF you do stop sinning then God can come within and teach Himself all you ask , even the future [John 16:13]

indeed ALL saints find scripture useful , but have no need of it after spirit baptism EXCEPT as a useful tool for showing folks that God really did declare the end from the beginning...

sadly for sinners, sinners are BOUND to teach a false gospel, false Christ , false God , Jesus says it must consume all the world before he can return [Rev 13:3-4] , thus obviously all mass churches of sinners will unite , but serving Satan, not Jesus , as one IN PLACE OF THE SON OF GOD ['antichristos' in Greek, Vicarius Filii Dei in Latin = 666 in Latin numerals summed] ... this be the son of perdition then, the man of sin , leading the whole world having conquered all resistance and opposed only by perhaps some 2000 saints [tens of thousands of saints of the church of God menas about two thousand alive at any one time before Jesus' return -Jude 1:14 plus the church of God never dies out]

Jesus thus proves the point about the mass churches of sinners led by sinners, and indeed says they will be left gnashing their teeth because they believed sinners' preachings instead of reading teh word of God in scripture and stopping sinning to receive spirit baptism :-

2 Timothy 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

the seal is thus spirit baptism, and the only way to break into the seal is to depart from iniquity, stop sinning ... this the foundation, the FIRST STEP that allows God in ... then there is baptism of fire, the trial to perfect love in resisting all temptation, ceasing from sin, choosing love instead of sinning, obeying Jesus and God instead of pretending they don't care about continual sin....

Rom 6:1 ... Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

It's personal when you tell people they can't understand God's word or are not infilled with the Holy Spirit because they are sinners. You can quote ALL the scripture you want, but if it is taken out of context and improperly and personally interpreted, it is something I will NOT continue to comment on.

“Do not keep talking so proudly or let your mouth speak such arrogance, for the LORD is a God who knows, and by him deeds are weighed. 1 Sam 2:3
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1 Samuel+2:2-4&version=NIV

 

[Soulgazer]

It's personal when you tell people they can't understand God's word or are not infilled with the Holy Spirit because they are sinners. You can quote ALL the scripture you want, but if it is taken out of context and improperly and personally interpreted, it is something I will NOT continue to comment on.

“Do not keep talking so proudly or let your mouth speak such arrogance, for the LORD is a God who knows, and by him deeds are weighed. 1 Sam 2:3

It doesn't have to be personal. Quite obviously I don't agree with Strangertoo theologically, but I have had many pleasant disagreements with him. He is lighthearted and not mean spirited whatsoever. He just sincerely believes what he believes, like all of us here.

 

[3rdHeaven]

I believe Origen was on the right track. He too wondered out loud how is it not possible for God to save every one? Who knows the mind of God here that can truthfully answer every question or explain every thing?

 

[Soulgazer]

I used to admire Origen until I found out he had himself castrated. I think he was a sincere seeker who took a wrong turn.

 

[martymonster]

God couldn't possibly send everyone to heaven cuz then the church would have no leverage.

 

[strangertoo]

God has to end the sinners' church of Satan , and does so by poetic justice, letting sinners suffer the sin with which they abuse others, to persuade them to stop and try Love... Love is so much better for us, so much it gives the feeling of being alive again, that it wins people over once they try it, the problem then is persuading folks to try Love so God can teach them Himself [spirit baptsim] :-

1 John 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil

Psalms 10:2 The wicked in his pride doth persecute the poor: let them be taken in the devices that they have imagined.

Isaiah 32:7 The instruments also of the churl are evil: he deviseth wicked devices to destroy the poor with lying words, even when the needy speaketh right.

Psalms 37:7 Rest in the LORD, and wait patiently for him: fret not thyself because of him who prospereth in his way, because of the man who bringeth wicked devices to pass.

Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.

 

[Noxot]

I used to admire Origen until I found out he had himself castrated. I think he was a sincere seeker who took a wrong turn.

you know that it may or may not be true that he castrated himself.
where do you think he took a wrong turn at?


blah. i think origen had it more right than most people. he seemed pretty serious about acquiring knowledge. i'm so happy i listened to origen over so many other people I could have heard, like calvin and luther and ect.

universal salvation is so easy to believe if you believe that God does not give up on His creatures. if you believe that God loves us enough to make other stages/places for us to come to him. and if you believe that Father really lives up to his own name. i think the largest opposition to universal salvation is the hard hearts of men.

not that i believe that people get a free ticket besides jesus Christ to heaven. we would all be going to hell without jesus so why do people act as if they earned it and why do they get ticked when they hear others will be saved by jesus too? if we are not saved here and now then that is punishment enough!

 

[Soulgazer]

you know that it may or may not be true that he castrated himself.
where do you think he took a wrong turn at?


blah. i think origen had it more right than most people. he seemed pretty serious about acquiring knowledge. i'm so happy i listened to origen over so many other people I could have heard, like calvin and luther and ect.

universal salvation is so easy to believe if you believe that God does not give up on His creatures. if you believe that God loves us enough to make other stages/places for us to come to him. and if you believe that Father really lives up to his own name. i think the largest opposition to universal salvation is the hard hearts of men. [/quote]

Oh, I still like Origen, and it may very well have been a whispering campaign against him. The strict adherence to any Dogma to us is the "leaven of the Pharisee". I found him to be a lot more fair, and definitely motivated by the Holy Spirit, than say Turtullian(not that I am judging) who seemed to have the outer but not the inner, just based on his misogyny. Origen did not seem to have that problem, but self mutilation, should it be true, is a desecration of the temple and an indicator of religious psychosis, not the Holy Spirit. If you could provide me with evidence that it was not true, I would be very grateful indeed.

 

[Noxot]

Oh, I still like Origen, and it may very well have been a whispering campaign against him. The strict adherence to any Dogma to us is the "leaven of the Pharisee". I found him to be a lot more fair, and definitely motivated by the Holy Spirit, than say Turtullian(not that I am judging) who seemed to have the outer but not the inner. Origen did not seem to have that problem, but self mutilation, should it be true, is a desecration of the temple. If you could provide me with evidence that it was not true, I would be very grateful indeed.

if we could find where they buried him at for certain then I guess we could find out

seriously if we could find his dead buried body he may have even been buried with some free scriptures...

 

[Soulgazer]

if we could find where they buried him at for certain then I guess we could find out

seriously if we could find his dead buried body he may have even been buried with some free scriptures...

I love reading Origen's quotations of scripture, and comparing them with what we have today, and noting the differences. There is no way to know for certain though if His has been tampered with also, as the devil seemed to have crept into the church in that regard.

The church seemed to disdain the original(?) adoption theology of the Gospels. In some of the older versions, esp Luke, the baptism dialogue reads "In thee I am well pleased, today I have begotten thee".

My guess is that they didn't believe that Jesus would have to be "born again".

 

[dollarsbill]

Einstein made big mistakes , but nevertheless his general theory of relativity has been proven to be true, and so that Newton's assumptions are mistaken...

not at all , you are creating 'strawmen ' now as is your style , but it is unhelpful ... there is no harm in reading BOTH

The "harm" comes by overruling God's word with the sinner Einstein's word.

it is not me uncovering the errors, it is the scripture itself , as I explained, Einstein's validated truths simply agree with the scripture , that the universe must end and so ends time , only to begin again and end again :-

Revelation 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away

baptism of fire is indeed a trial for love, enough to make Jesus sweat blood in facing his unjust crucifixion ... it is no different for anyone else, in this life or the next , in the kingdom come in the new earth or outside in the lake of fire... but the point is that God is love, He has a POINT to suffering , thus it has to be fruitful, it has to end, and scripture says it does, all folks accept Jesus in the end , not by being punished for not doing so ,but simply because God is right, all othere ways than love, all sin, leads to suffering... God cannot save men from that ...but He does guarantee through Jesus that it ends :-

Philippians 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;

Revelation 5:13 And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.

so, not only does time end and the spirit return to endless God who gave it at the end of creations, universes, but pain is physical to, that ends...

Revelation 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away
...
Revelation 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

the key then perhaps is to see that the creator alone is endless [spirit] and creation begin and end [endless creations which each begin and end , have their own time which time-less changeless God does not have]

Thus the scripture proves the false translation of scripture , which many folks have indeed now written about , one can even read it on the web now if that would amuse

but the only way that works eventually is to stop sinning, then God Himself will explain EVERYTHING -John 16:13 ...

Nearly every English Bible agrees with "forever".

Revelation 20:10 (NASB)
10 And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

 

[strangertoo]

The "harm" comes by overruling God's word with the sinner Einstein's word.

Nearly every English Bible agrees with "forever".

Revelation 20:10 (NASB)
10 And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

Revelation 20:10

Young's Literal Translation (YLT)

and the Devil, who is leading them astray, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where [are] the beast and the false prophet, and they shall be tormented day and night -- to the ages of the ages.




that is because they are mostly copies of the same translation by people steeped in traditions of men [sinners]

i have tried to show you that it doesn't even make sense if translated that way, it has no MEANING ... and going back to the original, the literal meaning is to the end of time , to the full age of the ages ...which alone makes sense ...
but by all means follow some of the wide debate of this on the web ... and it is clear most folks blindly follow tradition as indeed Jesus said they MUST , but into the great delusion of mankind -2Thess 2 which queues up sinners in death until the kingdom come is ready [and they are raedy to Love instead of sin] to save them - Rev 7:9-10 - note that countless many are later saved who are destroyed in this life for sin -Matt 7:13 , this is why men are deluded by God now except His few saints whom He needs perfect to run the kingdom come under Jesus when billions are resurrected who were freed from sin only by death , refused to stop sinning and Love in this life... were even taught that men cannot stop sinning , bizarre, but many believe it just because they are told to by sinners in frocks....

2 Thessalonians 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

 

[strangertoo]

if we could find where they buried him at for certain then I guess we could find out

seriously if we could find his dead buried body he may have even been buried with some free scriptures...

Revelation 2:11 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.

LOLOL... how can you find Jesus' body when he was 'translated' to spirit , he never died again after resurrection to the body , consider the translation of Enoch :-

Genesis 5:24 And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him.

Hebrews 11:5 By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.

it is clear I think that Jesus pleased God too , but had to die as a demo for the saints that they need not fear death and would be resurrected to life in the body [and later translated to spirit also , some not even seeing death first ]

1 Corinthians 15:26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

Matthew 16:28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

work it out, how long they are alive...nearly two millennia already ...so not as human beings, as translated spirit...

John 8:51 Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.

1 Thessalonians 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

1 Corinthians 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed --- [translation to spirit]

John 11:13 Howbeit Jesus spake of his death: but they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep.

the wages of sin is ONLY death , to 'sleep' over a thousand years in hell and not know a thing about it, to rise seemingly immediately to the kingdom come in the new earth ministered to by saints as kings under Jesus now reigning SUPREME king of kings and high priest needng no-one 'in place of Christ' , having re-united Israel as the prophecy says the Messiah, the Christ will unite Israel's two nations into a holy nation of priests and kings for the kingdom of God ... as God said FROM THE BEGINNING

Exodus 19:6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.

though rejected , BOTH Israel's nations are unconditionally accepted in their new covenant which states that grace is SOLELY for Israel's two nations , not just the Jews , but the lost House of Israel whio have been living as gentiles for millenia , even by the time of Jesus they had become gentiles , worshipping idols until the saints turn up and teach them the Truth as in the scripture :-

Deuteronomy 28:64 And the LORD shall scatter thee among all people, from the one end of the earth even unto the other; and there thou shalt serve other gods, which neither thou nor thy fathers have known, even wood and stone.

this is clearly not the Jews , who, however badly, attempt to serve God , not other gods, not idols.... and never ceased to be a people because Judaism held them together as part of the nation [the smaller part] of Israel... but Jesus, the messiah came to re-unite the Jews with the lost House of Israel, with folk who already were gentiles to anyone but God :-

Matthew 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

the RESULT is that no gentile knows who are candidates for sainthood amongst the gentiles and no Jew knows who will be saints first amongst the Jews ... no-one but God and Jesus and the saints... [at least until Israel finishes its genetic studies , and maybe they will not find a way either]

so we do not know who will sleep a thousand years like Rip van Winkle , who will wake at the time Christ returns, the few , the 144,000 saints of this earth [Rev 7:3-8] who will minister to and save billions later , after sleep [Rev 7:9-10] ...

but we do know no-one will ever find Jesus' bones in this earth or the next ... because he was translated long after his resurrection to the body ...

 

[Soulgazer]

Revelation 2:11 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.

LOLOL... how can you find Jesus' body when he was 'translated' to spirit , he never died again after resurrection to the body , consider the translation of Enoch :-

...

Ah, we were talking about Origen's body, to determine if it was true or not that he had himself castrated.

Noxot thinks it was a whispering campaign against him; I say maybe. It's just the thought of someone entering religious psychosis is a turnoff for me.

But, since you mentioned it, finding Jesus bones would not hurt my faith in Him. There are all forms of resurrection, and He turned my life around. Every single one of his philosophical teachings have proven themselves to be true to me. I would still have faith in His religious teaching. I could see some leaving in droves though. Not judging, but I would bet they were never really His to begin with, either in it for the promise of heaven or the fear of damnation.

Wouldn't it be a kicker if the second coming was the discovery of his corpse? That would separate the goats from the lambs!

 

[Timothew]

But, since you mentioned it, finding Jesus bones would not hurt my faith in Him. There are all forms of resurrection, and He turned my life around. Every single one of his philosophical teachings have proven themselves to be true to me. I would still have faith in His religious teaching. I could see some leaving in droves though. Not judging, but I would bet they were never really His to begin with, either in it for the promise of heaven or the fear of damnation.

Wouldn't it be a kicker if the second coming was the discovery of his corpse? That would separate the goats from the lambs!

If Christ's bones were found and it could be demonstrated that they were his, I would have a real problem remaining a Christian. It would mean that he did not rise to life again and so we will not either. There would be no second coming. There would be no hope for any of us at all. It's true, I wouldn't be His to begin with if He were not the Son of God. All my hopes would be in vain, just as Paul wrote:

And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins. Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ are lost. If only for this life we have hope in Christ, we are to be pitied more than all men.
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