Why can't God send us all to Heaven?

[stan1953]

... simple assertions are little use here ... for purpose of discussion you have to explain why you believe my quoting from the very scripture you quote doesn't convince you your
belief comes from another source than the scripture ... so please read what I wrote and be specific instead of waving hands in the air and saying it's in Rev 21 and 22, cos' I showed it isn't ...

Do you mean like all the simple assertions you have made in your erroneous exegesis of scripture? Instead of quoting scripture and then showing what is says, you make a statement and then use a scripture to fit it into your assertion. That my friend is call eisegesis.

You use Enoch as an example of what you call 'translation' for all of us, when Enoch, who was taken by God, will be one of the two witnesses as depicted in Rev 11:3. The other will be Elijah, who drove a chariot to God, and also did not die. Their death in Revelation, confirm what is stated in Hebrews 9:27. The Judgement Seat of Christ comes after this point in Rev 11.

Rev 2:7
Whoever has ears, let them hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To the one who is victorious, I will give the right to eat from the tree of life, which is in the paradise of God.
Spirits don't eat, ONLY physical bodies do. This is the same tree of life that was in Genesis. How are we victorious? By either dieing with Christ as our Saviour or being alive when He returns for His church. 1 Thess 4:6
Gen 1:27 speaks to our overall image, NOT just our spiritual one. God is triune, Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Jesus existed from before creation, according to Luke 10:18, where He states; “I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven." We are also triune or tripartite in our being. We are Mind, Body and Soul. As I have indicated before, Rev 21:4 says; There will be no more death’ or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.” Rev 22:1-5 shows the beginning of Eternal Life,

Then the angel showed me the river of the water of life, as clear as crystal, flowing from the throne of God and of the Lamb 2 down the middle of the great street of the city. On each side of the river stood the tree of life, bearing twelve crops of fruit, yielding its fruit every month. And the leaves of the tree are for the healing of the nations. 3 No longer will there be any curse. The throne of God and of the Lamb will be in the city, and his servants will serve him. 4 They will see his face, and his name will be on their foreheads. 5 There will be no more night. They will not need the light of a lamp or the light of the sun, for the Lord God will give them light. And they will reign for ever and ever.


The Creator did NOT create life on earth, just to destroy it. His intention from the very beginning was that LIFE, as He created it, be ETERNAL.

 

[strangertoo]

Do you mean like all the simple assertions you have made in your erroneous exegesis of scripture?

You are deeply mistaken about me my friend, the scripture was revealed to me over thirty years ago by God, I am only relating it here in case anyome understands and is moved to stop sinning in seeking spirit baptism from God to become the next generation of saints... I am not seeking to teach, only to get folk to realise that God does all the teaching under the new covenant, not men ...[Heb 8:8-12] ... thus you reveal that you have not understood even the new covenant of grace ,but learned from men, sinners, instead of from God... and all God requires inorder that the Holy Spirit teach one is that one stop sinning and seek Him with yearning longing prayer...

it is only religion of sinners that attempts exegesis of scripture , God says in the new covenant of grace itself that He will teach all those under grace Himself :-

Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.

thus you are very much misled by not even following the scripture of the new covenant itself [Jer 31:31-34, Heb 8:8-12] which i again suggest to you is ESSENTIAL that you undesratnd EVERY DETAIL of to KNOW what God proposes and why mass religion of sinners must be apostate before Jesus can return, as Jesus and the saints state , but is not taught by sinners in their 'bible classes' which indeed are very sad 'exegeses' of varying stories for sinners from sinners :-

1 John 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil

Instead of quoting scripture and then showing what is says, you make a statement and then use a scripture to fit it into your assertion. That my friend is call eisegesis.

You falsely accuse me of that which you cannot and thus do not even know about, that is a sin my friend , false witness ... and I suspect it is only because of your zeal for religion of sinners led by sinners, but really we are not here to accuse one another, but to discuss the scripure, thus I would point out the site rules and ask that YOU KEEP THEM and stop making sin=ful attacks on me and instead discuss the scripture, not teh flks here about whom you KNOW NOTHING about how God led them to their beliefs ad explained the scripture to them which must now be spoken of to the gentiles as Jesus commanded, not to teach, for God does the taeching in spirit baptism, but to persuade them to stop sinning so that God CAN teach them...

this is your final warning, keep to the rules, do NOT discuss the people here, discuss the scripture , else I'm sorry but the rules have to be ENFORCED , they are made for good reason... please then take note and STOP your abuse, it is not loving and it is not allowed by God or the moderators here ... STOP NOW! ...

You use Enoch as an example of what you call 'translation' for all of us,

it is not me that calls it translation, it is the scripture, read for yourself in your own bible, it is the word of God, not mine :-

Hebrews 11:5 By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.

when Enoch, who was taken by God, will be one of the two witnesses as depicted in Rev 11:3. The other will be Elijah, who drove a chariot to God, and also did not die. Their death in Revelation, confirm what is stated in Hebrews 9:27. The Judgement Seat of Christ comes after this point in Rev 11.

that can be easily shown to be mistaken [personal 'eisegesis' as you say], from the scripture which tells us exactly who the two witnesses are :-

Revelation 11:4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.

Zechariah 4:3 And two olive trees by it, one upon the right side of the bowl, and the other upon the left side thereof.
...
Zechariah 4:11 Then answered I, and said unto him, What are these two olive trees upon the right side of the candlestick and upon the left side thereof?
...
14 Then said he, These are the two anointed ones, that stand by the Lord of the whole earth

2 Corinthians 1:21 Now he which stablisheth us with you in Christ, and hath anointed us, is God;
22 Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.

Revelation 7:4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.

so the bible indicates that the saints of the [paganised, 'gentile'] House of Israel and of the Jews are anointed, and sealed in spirit baptism to know the truth of God [John 16:13] , these then fit the prophecy whereas Enoch and Elijah are elders of the Hebrews but have no other connection with being witnesses at that time, let us loo further as the scripture clarifies the point :-

Revelation 1:20 ... the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches.

so we have specifically two witnesses of the children [descendants] of the two nations of Israel , both Jews and the larger, now 'gentile' House of Israel speaking in Jerusalem and being killed for it as Jesus was , and then resurrected at Jesus' return to the astonishment of those around ...

these then are the remnant few of the 144,000 saints who are left by teh time Jesus returns , the two witnesses are the remnant of the chldren of the TWO nations whom God has anointed and sealed Himself under the new covenant of grace specifically ONLY with these two nations remnant children , both Jews [perhaps 20,000 after the daed saints are resurrected] and the House of Israel [perhaps 120,000 ] but those alive in Jerusalem at that time far fewer , perhaps 300 Jews and 1800 of the House of Israel's descendants [basically gentiles because the House fo Israel merged with all gentile nations long before even the Jews were scattered]

so the two witnesses are some 2000 saints , mostly apparently gentiles of the House of Israel to who alone Jesus was sent by God :-

Matthew 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

and a smaller number of Jewish saints who were made 'jealous' of knowledge of the 'Jewish Messiah' come to re-unite the two nations of Israel , the Christ, the anointed king of re-united Israel, as told by the re-emerged lost holy nation of the house of Israel which ceased to be a people so long ago :-

Isaiah 7:8 For the head of Syria is Damascus, and the head of Damascus is Rezin; and within threescore and five years shall Ephraim be broken, that it be not a people.

Deuteronomy 32:21 They have moved me to jealousy with that which is not God; they have provoked me to anger with their vanities: and I will move them to jealousy with those which are not a people; I will provoke them to anger with a foolish nation.

there si only one such nation which is not a people that is prophesied to become anointed king-priests, the royal priesthood , mentioned explicitly as one of the two witnesses in the new covenant , the House of Israel , whom God says He rejected, but now has ACCEPTED their children as His people in the new covenant [Jer 31:31-34, Heb 8:8-12]

1 Peter 2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:
10 Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.

Rev 2:7
Whoever has ears, let them hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To the one who is victorious, I will give the right to eat from the tree of life, which is in the paradise of God.
Spirits don't eat, ONLY physical bodies do. This is the same tree of life that was in Genesis.

Well I wholly agree, but what is your point ????

How are we victorious? By either dieing with Christ as our Saviour or being alive when He returns for His church. 1 Thess 4:6

if one believes Christ as Lord then one MUST do what he commands as lord ... no-one is your lord unless you obey them ... Jesus commands Love, sin is unloving , Satan commands sin as lord of all sinners [no matter who they SAY is their lord] :-

Luke 6:46 And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?

John 8:34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.

1 John 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. [the law of love, of God]
...
1 John 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil

 

[strangertoo]

Gen 1:27 speaks to our overall image, NOT just our spiritual one. God is triune, Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

READ it AGAIN, it does not mention OUR image, it speaks only of the image of God, and God is SPIRIT , doesn't look like anything in the physical realm , is invisible ... man is made in God's image, NOT in our false image of what we are which we mostly assume in our blindness to the fact that the only permanent part of a man is our spirit FROM GOD, not our flesh ...

Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

Jesus existed from before creation

Yes - John 1

, according to Luke 10:18, where He states; “I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven."

yes , but so what ? ... Jesus does not say this was at the beginning or later, does not even say whether this was in the timeless spirit as Logos, or in a vision as a man, or any indication of the timing of the event... but other scriptures do tell when the event is ... so I think you need to either ask God or read the whole scripture before jumping to conclusions...

We are also triune or tripartite in our being. We are Mind, Body and Soul.

we could NAME any number of properties/parts of a man, there is no basis whatever for stopping at three ... I could say we have head, thorax, abdomen, two legs and two arms which proves we are all holy SEVEN-fold creatures ,but it would be just as arbitrary a division , surely you see the point ?

As for saying God is spirit but different than His spirit , that is nonsense clearly,God is His spirit ... as for sons of God there are many mentioned in scripture and all the siants become begotten sons of God so the number keeps going up... no reason to stop at one then :-

Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

1 John 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

As I have indicated before, Rev 21:4 says; There will be no more death’ or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.” Rev 22:1-5 shows the beginning of Eternal Life,

you ignore that Jesus NEVER DIED after hs resurrection, so was translated from the earth for endless existence with God , NOT as a physical man [until he manifests again at his second coming, only to disappear yet again in translation... no more death does not mean no more translation to spirit , indeed physical life involves change , it is destructive because we eat life... it ends because it destroys [called entropic doom] ,the spirit however does not change, does not 'live' the same way we do, does not have time or space ,which are created things so logically 'after' the creator, not involved IN the creator ... God is time-less, space-less, change-less :-

Malachi 3:6 For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.

Then the angel showed me the river of the water of life, as clear as crystal, flowing from the throne of God and of the Lamb 2 down the middle of the great street of the city. On each side of the river stood the tree of life, bearing twelve crops of fruit, yielding its fruit every month. And the leaves of the tree are for the healing of the nations. 3 No longer will there be any curse. The throne of God and of the Lamb will be in the city, and his servants will serve him. 4 They will see his face, and his name will be on their foreheads. 5 There will be no more night. They will not need the light of a lamp or the light of the sun, for the Lord God will give them light. And they will reign for ever and ever.

Go back to the original language ... the last four words read more literally 'to the ages of the ages' ... to the age of the aeons ... to the end of time ... to the end of FINITE time ... there is no contention in the spirit with God, ALL is ONE in the spirit no change , no-one there to reign, the spirit IS God , nothing else to rule over ...

The Creator did NOT create life on earth, just to destroy it.

True enough, God tells us His purpose in BOTH this earth and the new earth and heavens, new universe ... but all this earth yields is twenty-four elders of the Hebrews, Jesus back again, and 144,000 saints ... all the earth and all the billions of sinners ARE DESTROYED in the wrath of God

Matt 7:14 ... broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:

Romans 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness

all sinners are destroyed , 'religious' or not, along with this earth :-

2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
...
2 Peter 3:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

God however will make a new heavens and new earth and resurrect all sinners from hell and death [Rev 20:13] to the kingdom come ruled by the FEW [matt 7:14, Jude 1:14, rev 7:38] saints that He saves at Jesus return
sealed anointed to be kings in the kingdom under the king of kings, priests under the high priests, Jesus the anointed king re-uniting Israel, the Christ, the Messiah :-

Ezekiel 37:22 And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all

Exodus 19:6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.Thus the ancient prophecies are FULFILLED in the new earth God told men long ago that He will create when destroying this universe because most of mankind sinned and kept sinning all their lives
Isaiah 65:17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.

His intention from the very beginning was that LIFE, as He created it, be ETERNAL.

even the universe is not 'eternal' my friend , even the new universe is not 'eternal' ... read about 'entropic doom ' ... the 'arrow of time' ensures the eventual death of any created physical universe with time in it ... God howeveer Himself ends this universe as the scripture states, once he has His tens of thousands of saints [Jude 1:14] perfected in love here :-

Matthew 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

the ONLY endlessness is God , who is spirit , not physical although we can know God by Love in the physical , because God is ONE, not dicvided and love is essentially one-ness with others and thus with God ...

 

[stan1953]

You are deeply mistaken about me my friend, the scripture was revealed to me over thirty years ago by God, I am only relating it here in case anyone understands and is moved to stop sinning in seeking spirit baptism from God to become the next generation of saints... I am not seeking to teach, only to get folk to realize that God does all the teaching under the new covenant, not men ...[Heb 8:8-12] ... thus you reveal that you have not understood even the new covenant of grace ,but leaned from men, sinners, instead of from God... and all God requires in order that the Holy Spirit teach one is that one stop sinning and seek Him with yearning longing prayer...

OK well FYI, this is a CHRISTIAN Forum and in this particular thread Christians ONLY. So what I hear you saying is GOD gave you a revelation over 30 years ago about what His Word really says, and you're just passing it along to all us sinner folk. Do you know what the Bible says about sinners SAVED by grace?Heb 8:8-12 is for Israel directly, NOT Gentiles. It is meant to show them that the OLD ways were to disappear and the new covenant was to replace the old useless one. God is clear in His word and DOES NOT reveal His word as different than what it actually is saying. His word does say, Study to show yourself approved, a workman that doesn't need to be ashamed, rightly dividing the Word of truth. Yes the Holy Spirit is there for us, to teach us and remind of of Christ as it says in John 14:26, but Heb 4:12 also says, For the word of God is alive and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.

thus you are very much misled by not even following the scripture of the new covenant itself [Jer 31:31-34, Heb 8:8-12] which i again suggest to you is ESSENTIAL that you understand EVERY DETAIL of to KNOW what God proposes and why mass religion of sinners must be apostate before Jesus can return, as Jesus and the saints state , but is not taught by sinners in their 'bible classes' which indeed are very sad 'exegeses' of varying stories for sinners from sinners :-

Yes I am a sinner, a sinner saved by grace. Do you sin? Are you a sinner?
I john 1:8 says; If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.

1 John 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil
You falsely accuse me of that which you cannot and thus do not even know about, that is a sin my friend , false witness ... and I suspect it is only because of your zeal for religion of sinners led by sinners, but really we are not here to accuse one another, but to discuss the Scripture, thus I would point out the site rules and ask that YOU KEEP THEM and stop making sin=full attacks on me and instead discuss the scripture, not the flks here about whom you KNOW NOTHING about how God led them to their beliefs ad explained the scripture to them which must now be spoken of to the gentiles as Jesus commanded, not to teach, for God does the teaching in spirit baptism, but to persuade them to stop sinning so that God CAN teach them...

1 John 3:7-10 states; Dear children, do not let anyone lead you astray. The one who does what is right is righteous, just as he is righteous. The one who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil’s work. No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God. This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not God’s child, nor is anyone who does not love their brother and sister.
The context above is much clearer than pulling out a few words from verse 8.
Just exactly where did I falsely accuse you of anything? What exactly do you think calling us all a religion of sinners is?

it is not me that calls it translation, it is the scripture, read for yourself in your own bible, it is the word of God, not mine :-
Hebrews 11:5 By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.

The Greek word used is metatithēmi, which is English has the connotation "to transfer to another place" (meta, see above, tithemi, "to put"), or as the modern NIV states, By faith Enoch was taken from this life, so that he did not experience death: “He could not be found, because God had taken him away.” For before he was taken, he was commended as one who pleased God. It is NOT the Word of God that uses 'translation', it is the KJV. Even the NKJV uses the proper wording.

that can be easily shown to be mistaken [personal 'eisegesis' as you say], from the scripture which tells us exactly who the two witnesses are :-
Revelation 11:4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.
Zechariah 4:3 And two olive trees by it, one upon the right side of the bowl, and the other upon the left side thereof.
Zechariah 4:11 Then answered I, and said unto him, What are these two olive trees upon the right side of the candlestick and upon the left side thereof?
14 Then said he, These are the two anointed ones, that stand by the Lord of the whole earth
2 Corinthians 1:21 Now he which stablisheth us with you in Christ, and hath anointed us, is God;
22 Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.
Revelation 7:4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.
so the bible indicates that the saints of the [paganised, 'gentile'] House of Israel and of the Jews are anointed, and sealed in spirit baptism to know the truth of God [John 16:13] , these then fit the prophecy whereas Enoch and Elijah are elders of the Hebrews but have no other connection with being witnesses at that time, let us look further as the scripture clarifies the point :-
Revelation 1:20 ... the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches.
so we have specifically two witnesses of the children [descendants] of the two nations of Israel , both Jews and the larger, now 'gentile' House of Israel speaking in Jerusalem and being killed for it as Jesus was , and then resurrected at Jesus' return to the astonishment of those around ...
these then are the remnant few of the 144,000 saints who are left by teh time Jesus returns , the two witnesses are the remnant of the children of the TWO nations whom God has anointed and sealed Himself under the new covenant of grace specifically ONLY with these two nations remnant children , both Jews [perhaps 20,000 after the daed saints are resurrected] and the House of Israel [perhaps 120,000 ] but those alive in Jerusalem at that time far fewer , perhaps 300 Jews and 1800 of the House of Israel's descendants [basically gentiles because the House fo Israel merged with all gentile nations long before even the Jews were scattered]
so the two witnesses are some 2000 saints , mostly apparently gentiles of the House of Israel to who alone Jesus was sent by God :-
Matthew 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
and a smaller number of Jewish saints who were made 'jealous' of knowledge of the 'Jewish Messiah' come to re-unite the two nations of Israel , the Christ, the anointed king of re-united Israel, as told by the re-emerged lost holy nation of the house of Israel which ceased to be a people so long ago :-
Isaiah 7:8 For the head of Syria is Damascus, and the head of Damascus is Rezin; and within threescore and five years shall Ephraim be broken, that it be not a people.
Deuteronomy 32:21 They have moved me to jealousy with that which is not God; they have provoked me to anger with their vanities: and I will move them to jealousy with those which are not a people; I will provoke them to anger with a foolish nation.
there si only one such nation which is not a people that is prophesied to become anointed king-priests, the royal priesthood , mentioned explicitly as one of the two witnesses in the new covenant , the House of Israel , whom God says He rejected, but now has ACCEPTED their children as His people in the new covenant [Jer 31:31-34, Heb 8:8-12]
1 Peter 2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:
10 Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.

Sounds suspiciously like an article I read by Bryan T. Huie.
In any event I tend to take the simplistic approach and I believe God does too.
Hebrews 9:27-28 says; And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment, so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation. Now I can't be sure, NO ONE can, but Enoch and Elijah have to die according to this scripture. These two will be exactly what God needs to condem the enemy as His word says in Deut 17:6 and 19:5.
Simple, not complicated. Rev 11:10 says in the last verse, because these two prophets tormented those who dwell on the earth.
Two is two, NOT 2000 or any other number you care to invent.

Well I wholly agree, but what is your point ????

I made my point.

if one believes Christ as Lord then one MUST do what he commands as lord ... no-one is your lord unless you obey them ... Jesus commands Love, sin is unloving , Satan commands sin as lord of all sinners [no matter who they SAY is their lord] :-
Luke 6:46 And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?
John 8:34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.
1 John 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. [the law of love, of God]
1 John 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil

Well again I ask...do you ever committ sin, or are you now sinless?

1 John 1:5-10

This is the message we have heard from him and declare to you: God is light; in him there is no darkness at all. 6 If we claim to have fellowship with him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not live out the truth. 7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin.
8 If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word is not in us.

 

[Soulgazer]

There is nothing wrong with seeking a sinless existence. In fact, one of the earliest Judeo/Christian teachings is to be transformed into a Christ image, placing it at the top of the things to be devoutly sought.

As to the usage of numbers, I don't personally care. They neither add nor detract from the overall message. One can only be what one can become.



7 Now if the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone, came with glory, so that the Israelites could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of its glory, transitory though it was, 8 will not the ministry of the Spirit be even more glorious? 9 If the ministry that brought condemnation was glorious, how much more glorious is the ministry that brings righteousness! 10 For what was glorious has no glory now in comparison with the surpassing glory. 11 And if what was transitory came with glory, how much greater is the glory of that which lasts!
12 Therefore, since we have such a hope, we are very bold. 13 We are not like Moses, who would put a veil over his face to prevent the Israelites from seeing the end of what was passing away. 14 But their minds were made dull, for to this day the same veil remains when the old covenant is read. It has not been removed, because only in Christ is it taken away. 15 Even to this day when Moses is read, a veil covers their hearts. 16 But whenever anyone turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. 17 Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. 18 And we all, who with unveiled faces contemplate[a] the Lord’s glory, are being transformed into his image with ever-increasing glory, which comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit.
~2 Corinthians

It is not possible for anyone to see anything of the things that actually exist unless he becomes like them. This is not the way with man in the world: he sees the sun without being a sun; and he sees the heaven and the earth and all other things, but he is not these things. This is quite in keeping with the truth. But you saw something of that place, and you became those things. You saw the Spirit, you became spirit. You saw Christ, you became Christ. You saw the Father, you shall become Father. So in this place you see everything and do not see yourself, but in that place you do see yourself - and what you see you shall become. ~Philip


One either sees the overall message of learning to love, or one does not. The one that learns is transformed, I would not speak for the fates concerning the one who does not. That is beyond human knowledge.

 

[dollarsbill]

I already showed the very easy biblical proof that MOST people are saved after death , so why do you support this unbiblical common myth taught by sinners without even attempting any scriptural support for your assertion ???

FEW find the way in this life and the MANY are destroyed -Matt 7:13-14

Jude 1:14 confirms Enoch's statement that Jesus takes only tens of thousands of saints from this earth out of over 12 billion that ever lived

that is FEW indeed saved now

Jesus himself states that COUNTLESS MANY are saved afterward -Rev 7:9-10

so how on earth do you ignore this ???

Revelation 14:9-11 (NASB)
9 Then another angel, a third one, followed them, saying with a loud voice, "If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives a mark on his forehead or on his hand, 10 he also will drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is mixed in full strength in the cup of His anger; and he will be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. 11 "And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever; they have no rest day and night, those who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name."

 

[strangertoo]

One either sees the overall message of learning to love, or one does not. The one that learns is transformed, I would not speak for the fates concerning the one who does not. That is beyond human knowledge.

It's not beyond Jesus' knowledge that all will accept him one day even though few will do so in this life despite what many folks say [saying 'Jesus is Lord does not make Jesus one's lord, a lord is one whom one OBEYS in action... Jesus commands Love ... sinners do not DO Love fro any sin is UNLOVING ]

Ezekiel 18:24 But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.

Philippians 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;

Revelation 5:13 And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.

thus we see that belief is measured by actions, not words ... but in the end even those who only pretend Jesus is their lord in this life will be freed from their continual sin in death to begin again in the next life where the FEW who followed Christ truly in actions in this life serve the many who did not and countless amny are saved [Rev 7:9-10]even by 'judgement day' [which is really the second judgement day as saints of this earth are judged worthy of translation [salvation] at Jesus return , and thejudgemnet is based on exactly the same rule of God, Love, wheteher one is perfectly righteous in God's eyes or not ...

as for finding out one's sin, one has only to stop the sin one KNOWS one commits continually in life to be told all the other sins God sees , in spirit baptism to know all truth [John 16:13] , the FIRST truth given being the truth about oneself and one's own deceptions about one's being ...

 

[strangertoo]

Revelation 14:9-11 (NASB)
9 Then another angel, a third one, followed them, saying with a loud voice, "If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives a mark on his forehead or on his hand, 10 he also will drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is mixed in full strength in the cup of His anger; and he will be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. 11 "And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever; they have no rest day and night, those who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name."

As has been said many times, LOOK at the original words , the words translated 'for ever and ever' mean literally 'to the ages of the ages' which is to the END of time in this space-tme universe , which we know from scripture ENDS :-

Isaiah 65:17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.

so time cannot go on without space-time ... time begins again in the new universe , but even that ends eventually, only God is end-less spirit ...

and there simply is nowhere else to Go but for the spirit of a man to treturn to God when the universes, the physical creations, end :-

Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

So, the bible itself shows the mistake in its translation by sinners... it is as well to remember there are thousands of translation errors in scripture , many caused by it being translated by sinners with private interpretations ... we know there are many such and clearly at most ONE could be true... in fact it is relatively easy to see that no religion of sinners is true to the whole scripture , and the raeson is obvious really, sinners serve Satan whether they like to admit it or not :-

1 John 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil

John 8:34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.


THUS use the rest of scripture to unravel the truth about the finiteness of time which is revealed by the end of this universe [and Einstein showed what was later proved exactly, that space-time is one thing , the end of the universe is the end of its time ]

 

[strangertoo]

OK well FYI, this is a CHRISTIAN Forum and in this particular thread Christians ONLY. So what I hear you saying is GOD gave you a revelation over 30 years ago about what His Word really says, and you're just passing it along to all us sinner folk. Do you know what the Bible says about sinners SAVED by grace?Heb 8:8-12 is for Israel directly, NOT Gentiles.

well FYI , I already pointed out the scripture that proves that the lost House of Israel are 'gentiles' these days, have been for thousands of years

It's a sad shame that you don't bother to at least read the bible to find your answers , is it too much to ask that you read the four verses of the new covenant copied into the NT - Heb 8:8-12 ?

also it is very hard to discuss with you because you refuse to read what I wrote ... surely you must understand that is your failure and makes the discussion pointless ... so please read the words offered you as encouragement to raed the scripture until you see that God will not teach you anything until you stop sinning and obey His command to Love instead of sinning ... no-one can do that for you, no sinner priests can save you the trouble , and Jesus will deny anyone if they don't stop sinning by his return, he says so, so why do you not BELIEVE HIM ?

Matthew 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Luke 13:27 But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity.

It is meant to show them that the OLD ways were to disappear and the new covenant was to replace the old useless one.

if you read even the new covenant you will find there are 24 Hebrew elders with God who were saved under the old covenant long before the new covenant arrived [Jer 31:31-34] , so this idle 'chatter' abusing God's word from churches of sinners is the useless words ... whereas the old covenant saved a very few , just not enough ,as God requires the 144,000 as well ... but if you READ the new covenant , then you will SEE IN SCRIPTURE that the new covenant is with those WHOSE FATHERS broke the old covenant , with the CHILDREN of the House of Israel AND the Jews [House of Judah]

God is clear in His word and DOES NOT reveal His word as different than what it actually is saying. His word does say, Study to show yourself approved, a workman that doesn't need to be ashamed, rightly dividing the Word of truth. Yes the Holy Spirit is there for us, to teach us and remind of of Christ as it says in John 14:26, but Heb 4:12 also says, For the word of God is alive and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.

Indeed the scripture is very useful indeed , but it is you who refuses to READ IT ALL as ONE TRUTH of God , realising that even within itself it shows up the many translation errors , some every deliberate by sinners because sinners believe differently than ALL that is written and sinnesr translated the scriptures , not saints .... saints have no need to , as the new covenant states, so READ IT PLEASE

Yes I am a sinner, a sinner saved by grace. Do you sin? Are you a sinner?
I john 1:8 says; If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.

No saint ever claimed to be without sin , that is God's call what PAST sin He forgives when we STOP sinning , so you are misunderstanding this scripture ... if we CLAIMED to be without sin that would be a sin of blasphemy and we would make ourselves sinners by that statement... but that has nothing to do with the written FACT in scripture that the FOUNDATION of God is to STOP sinning , God cannot come within one until one stops sinning, and without this spirit baptism to know all truth from God [John 16:13] on simply CANNOT enter the kingdom of God :-

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

thus sinners do not take dying to sin seriously in water baptism, continue sinning, and can never be baptised of the spirit because they are unrighteous from sinning after water baptism , and indeed are unlikely indeed to ever stop sinning in this life because they lied in their water baptism... [equally absurd of course is water baptism of babies, how can they die to sin when they have no conception of what that would mean and likely have no sin yet either]

1 John 3:7-10 states; Dear children, do not let anyone lead you astray. The one who does what is right is righteous, just as he is righteous. The one who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil’s work. No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God. This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not God’s child, nor is anyone who does not love their brother and sister.
The context above is much clearer than pulling out a few words from verse 8.

I have quoted far more than a few words , but what is significant is that you still ignore all that I quote from God's words , think nothing of doing that, and continue to state things which are not in scripture ... the above scripture says exactly what I have pointed out that God has said, no-one who is born of God will commit sin any more because the spirit will not enter anyone until they stop sinning ... now READ , if a righteous man sins again at all then his righteousness is LOST :-

Ezekiel 18:24 But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.

but you want to pretend NO-ONE is righteous or even that sinners are righteous even if they are continual sinners, so long as the SAY they believe in Jesus ... the scripture never says that , but says the opposite ... ANY sin destroys righteousness

as for grace, the scripture says all have sinned [hyperbole as we know Jesus has not sinned] but grcae is forgiveness, remission , of PAST sin ... obviously sin is only past once one STOPS :-

Romans 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

clearly the churches of sinners led by sinners all DISAGREE , a logically absolute proof of the MASSIVE absence of the Holy Spirit that would IN LIFE unite them by revealing all truth and the future [John 16:13] ... that is PRACTICAL ABSOLUTE proof of the scriptural statements that God cannot come within anyone who is stll a sinner, anyone who refuses to love :-

1 John 4:8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love

sin is abuse of others, sin is the opposite of love, the opposite of God's one-ness :-

1 John 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil

sinners are those who commit sin , that is unloving
so God cannot baptise them with his spirit
so they CANNOT enter the kingdom
so Jesus will deny them at his return as he says he will...[above quotes]

Just exactly where did I falsely accuse you of anything? What exactly do you think calling us all a religion of sinners is?

The Greek word used is metatithēmi, which is English has the connotation "to transfer to another place" (meta, see above, tithemi, "to put"), or as the modern NIV states, By faith Enoch was taken from this life, so that he did not experience death: “He could not be found, because God had taken him away.” For before he was taken, he was commended as one who pleased God. It is NOT the Word of God that uses 'translation', it is the KJV. Even the NKJV uses the proper wording.

it hardly matters what name you give it, the spirit returns to be with God , and the body vanishes ... I fail to see what difference in meaning there is here , perhaps you would explain your problem

Sounds suspiciously like an article I read by Bryan T. Huie.

well , God talks to some 144,000 in this life , you should not be surprised if people write much the same stuff independently as a result of inspiration by ONE God ... indeed were it not for the gross division of sinners in mass churches of sinners led by sinners then it would seem obvious that the word of God is the same whoever receives it.... but I do not know or know of until now the man of whom you speak

In any event I tend to take the simplistic approach and I believe God does too.

wrong as it happens :-
Proverbs 1:22 How long, ye simple ones, will ye love simplicity? and the scorners delight in their scorning, and fools hate knowledge?

Hebrews 9:27-28 says; And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment, so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation. Now I can't be sure, NO ONE can, but Enoch and Elijah have to die according to this scripture. These two will be exactly what God needs to condem the enemy as His word says in Deut 17:6 and 19:5.

all the scripture says is , to paraphrase, that no-one dies twice before judgement day .... your private re-interpretation is obviously false because some die a SECOND death ...

Revelation 2:11 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.

Simple, not complicated. Rev 11:10 says in the last verse, because these two prophets tormented those who dwell on the earth.
Two is two, NOT 2000 or any other number you care to invent.

I didn't invent the number, I showed you how it is deduced from scripture of God... and how the scripture explains who the prophets are , again ther are some problems because of translation [by sinners] , but you should know that by now I guess ...

I made my point.

but it is mistaken according to other scriptures , and God's word is ONE whole truth, not subject to ANY interpretation by sinners...

Matthew 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

2 Peter 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

 

[strangertoo]

Well again I ask...do you ever committ sin, or are you now sinless?

As I've told you many times already , that is God's call , not mine or yours... and as I've also tried to explain patiently , this is NOT personal, we are simply discussing what scripture means ... we are NOT allowed to discuss one another, nor is anything but loss to come from such puerile games ... so PLEASE STOP trying to make it personal else the moderators will take action against you for breaking the rules here...

1 John 1:5-10

This is the message we have heard from him and declare to you: God is light; in him there is no darkness at all. 6 If we claim to have fellowship with him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not live out the truth. 7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin.
8 If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word is not in us.

quite true, but what you did not notice is that only PAST sins are remitted [at God's discretion, not ours]

Romans 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

you simply have to READ ALL the scripture to get God's MEANING and you don't seem to have raed any of teh mANY scriptures I pointed out to you here else you would see taht you are following the words of sinners in mass churches of sinners, not EVERY word of God in the scripture

but unravelling the mess sinners made of the holy word of God is more than a lifetime's work IF you don't stop sinning ...

IF you do stop sinning then God can come within and teach Himself all you ask , even the future [John 16:13]

indeed ALL saints find scripture useful , but have no need of it after spirit baptism EXCEPT as a useful tool for showing folks that God really did declare the end from the beginning...

sadly for sinners, sinners are BOUND to teach a false gospel, false Christ , false God , Jesus says it must consume all the world before he can return [Rev 13:3-4] , thus obviously all mass churches of sinners will unite , but serving Satan, not Jesus , as one IN PLACE OF THE SON OF GOD ['antichristos' in Greek, Vicarius Filii Dei in Latin = 666 in Latin numerals summed] ... this be the son of perdition then, the man of sin , leading the whole world having conquered all resistance and opposed only by perhaps some 2000 saints [tens of thousands of saints of the church of God menas about two thousand alive at any one time before Jesus' return -Jude 1:14 plus the church of God never dies out]

Jesus thus proves the point about the mass churches of sinners led by sinners, and indeed says they will be left gnashing their teeth because they believed sinners' preachings instead of reading teh word of God in scripture and stopping sinning to receive spirit baptism :-

2 Timothy 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

the seal is thus spirit baptism, and the only way to break into the seal is to depart from iniquity, stop sinning ... this the foundation, the FIRST STEP that allows God in ... then there is baptism of fire, the trial to perfect love in resisting all temptation, ceasing from sin, choosing love instead of sinning, obeying Jesus and God instead of pretending they don't care about continual sin....

Rom 6:1 ... Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

 

[dollarsbill]

As has been said many times, LOOK at the original words , the words translated 'for ever and ever' mean literally 'to the ages of the ages' which is to the END of time in this space-tme universe , which we know from scripture ENDS :-

Which verse are you referring to? Could it be that the exact same Greek word that also refers to eternal life? Hmm

Isaiah 65:17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.

?

so time cannot go on without space-time ... time begins again in the new universe , but even that ends eventually, only God is end-less spirit ...

and there simply is nowhere else to Go but for the spirit of a man to treturn to God when the universes, the physical creations, end :-

Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

So, the bible itself shows the mistake in its translation by sinners

Was Einstein a sinner? Was he infallible?

... it is as well to remember there are thousands of translation errors in scripture , many caused by it being translated by sinners with private interpretations ... we know there are many such and clearly at most ONE could be true... in fact it is relatively easy to see that no religion of sinners is true to the whole scripture , and the raeson is obvious really, sinners serve Satan whether they like to admit it or not :-

1 John 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil

John 8:34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.

THUS use the rest of scripture to unravel the truth about the finiteness of time which is revealed by the end of this universe [and Einstein showed what was later proved exactly, that space-time is one thing , the end of the universe is the end of its time ]

Would you have us throw away our Bibles and read Einstein? Alas, the eternal fire is taught throughout the NT. Charging our Bibles with grievous errors won't work.

A DETAILED account of the eternal fire:

Luke 16:22-28 (NASB)
22 "Now the poor man died and was carried away by the angels to Abraham's bosom; and the rich man also died and was buried. 23 "In Hades he lifted up his eyes, being in torment, and *saw Abraham far away and Lazarus in his bosom. 24 "And he cried out and said, 'Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus so that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool off my tongue, for I am in agony in this flame.' 25 "But Abraham said, 'Child, remember that during your life you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus bad things; but now he is being comforted here, and you are in agony. 26 ~'And besides all this, between us and you there is a great chasm fixed, so that those who wish to come over from here to you will not be able, and that none may cross over from there to us.' 27 "And he said, 'Then I beg you, father, that you send him to my father's house— 28 for I have five brothers—in order that he may warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.'

 

[stan1953]

As has been said many times, LOOK at the original words , the words translated 'for ever and ever' mean literally 'to the ages of the ages' which is to the END of time in this space-tme universe , which we know from scripture ENDS

Yes please LOOK at the original words and their real meaning. They mean as indicated in the NIV, forever and ever. eis and aiōn, which mean towards eternity.
The phrases containing this word should not be rendered literally, but consistently with its sense of indefinite duration. Thus eis ton aiona does not mean "unto the age" but "for ever" (see, e.g., Hbr 5:6). The Greeks contrasted that which came to an end with that which was expressed by this phrase, which shows that they conceived of it as expressing interminable duration. (Vine's)

Isaiah 65:17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.
so time cannot go on without space-time ... time begins again in the new universe , but even that ends eventually, only God is end-less spirit ...
and there simply is nowhere else to Go but for the spirit of a man to return to God when the universes, the physical creations, end :-
Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

Again you assume facts NOT in evidence. Rev 20:11 talks about the Judgement Throne of the Dead and says, The earth and the heavens fled from his presence, and there was no place for them. Then verses 12 - 15 go on to depict what happens AFTER verse 11. It's pretty clear time is still happening and things are being done. After this judgement, Rev 21:1 goes on to show; “a new heaven and a new earth,” appears. This is where all those whose names were written in the Book of LIFE will reside there as it says in verse 3, “Look! God’s dwelling place is now among the people, and he will dwell with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God." This is what Isaiah 65:17 refers to. Ecclesiastes 12:7 is the death experience the Jews believed would happen to them. There is not time frame on this as you assume and the end of verse 5 prior to that says, Then people go to their eternal home and mourners go about the streets.
This whole book has to be read WITHIN context and the writer, Solomon, was going through spiritual and mental depression. He starts this book with the words, “Meaningless! Meaningless!” says the Teacher. “Utterly meaningless! Everything is meaningless.” If that IS true then we may as well throw away our Bible's now and get off this forum.

So, the bible itself shows the mistake in its translation by sinners... it is as well to remember there are thousands of translation errors in scripture , many caused by it being translated by sinners with private interpretations ... we know there are many such and clearly at most ONE could be true... in fact it is relatively easy to see that no religion of sinners is true to the whole scripture , and the reason is obvious really, sinners serve Satan whether they like to admit it or not :-
1 John 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil
John 8:34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.

What is clear is some PEOPLE err in reading and interpreting scripture. It DOESN'T mean we through the baby out with the bath water.
I am forced to ask you again based on your comments here, ARE YOU A SINNER? DO YOU SIN?
Within the CONTEXT of 1 John 3, verse 8 CANNOT be taken alone. Within proper hermeneutical context, verses 7-10 need to be read together.
Dear children, do not let anyone lead you astray. The one who does what is right is righteous, just as he is righteous. 8 The one who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil’s work. 9 No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God. 10 This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not God’s child, nor is anyone who does not love their brother and sister. Now maybe you will see WHAT the Word really says.
John 8:34 again WITHIN context shows Jesus talking to Jews who were mad at Him for calling them slaves. Read verse 33. Jesus was teaching them how they needed to transition from the Mosaic Law to the Law of the Spirit and faith in God's promise to Abraham which had now found its way to them.
Again, do you ever sin, or are you sinless?

THUS use the rest of scripture to unravel the truth about the finiteness of time which is revealed by the end of this universe [and Einstein showed what was later proved exactly, that space-time is one thing , the end of the universe is the end of its time ]

What Einstein theorized was that the faster light travels, the slower time goes. It IS a theory, not a fact. God is the Creator and ONLY He knows what time is ALL about. WE do NOT.

 

[strangertoo]

Yes please LOOK at the original words and their real meaning. They mean as indicated in the NIV, forever and ever. eis and aiōn, which mean towards eternity.
The phrases containing this word should not be rendered literally, but consistently with its sense of indefinite duration. Thus eis ton aiona does not mean "unto the age" but "for ever" (see, e.g., Hbr 5:6). The Greeks contrasted that which came to an end with that which was expressed by this phrase, which shows that they conceived of it as expressing interminable duration. (Vine's)

again , you are expressing oher sinners OPINION that the words are not literal , and the rest of scripture shows that they are... but let us then put this aside for a moment , as it depends upon at least questionable assumptions of translation which differ from expert to expert , sadly all sinners, not inspired by God then ... we go not need any particular scripture to understand the meaning since all scripture must fit into ONE truth else it is not the word of God [and then it would not be able to resolve the ignorance of sinners which prevents them stopping sinning and receiving the truth from God under the new covenant with israel's children of both Houses, Jew and 'gentile paganised lost House of Israel

Again you assume facts NOT in evidence.

I think not my friend, I only use scripture to show sinners what God will reveal once they stop sinning ... you on the other hand try the impossible of piecing together the translated scripture by analysis when you do not even have the original , nor the time, to be able to do so without making many mistakes... but then you insist you know the answers BEFORE understanding the WHOLE and call that faith , but it is faith based partly on what sinners preach in ignorance of the Holy Spirit, because as it says, God and Jesus cannot come in to a man whilst he sins , one has to love first, the foundation stone is to stop sinning, cease to be a sinner...

So it is pointless, even counter-productive, to keep quoting sinners as you do , they cannot know God or Jesus ...

1 John 4:8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.

sin is the opposite of love, so one cannot know God as a sinner , so what point of quoting them instead of doing the work to cease listening to Satan's temptings to sin and turning to love instead ... then God will show what scripture means as if scales had dropped from the eyes ...John 16:13

living in the world of religion of sinners is just a way of ending up dead still in sin, that is not what is required if one wants to understand the scripture, we know 'all the world' will worship the wrong image of Christ and God -Rev 13:3-4 , an image created by Satan, so it is a choice most folks get wrong through mass religion of sinners led by sinners :-

1 John 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil

Rev 20:11 talks about the Judgement Throne of the Dead and says, The earth and the heavens fled from his presence, and there was no place for them. Then verses 12 - 15 go on to depict what happens AFTER verse 11. It's pretty clear time is still happening and things are being done.

again, the events here are in the new universe, a new earth and heavens, new space-time with its own time ...time begins again and ends again after the lake of fire, baptism of fire, has finished the work of all men coming to Jesus and perfecting their love in their second or third life [both in the second earth, the third heaven, paradise , has no third earth, nothing physical remains, no time or space or flesh... I know it's hard to understand time-lessness of the spirit because all our words developed in the physical where time is apparent [although Physics has shown we scarcely most even begin to understand time]

After this judgement, Rev 21:1 goes on to show; “a new heaven and a new earth,” appears.

Matt 7:13 shows the MANY being destroyed at the ed of this earth, in the wrath of God against all sinners [religious or not] and only the few saints being saved in this earth [Matt 7:14] ... so the thousand years are in the kingdom come in the new earth

Revelation 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished.

consider that the only way of getting to the new earth is by death and resurrection [for sinners , who are freed from sin in death] or by translation and manifestation [for saints who are freed from past sin by grace because they stop sinning in this life and perfect their love in life before death after spirit baptism]

thus we know from scripture the order of things, one never has to guess as you have done...[or did you get that from sinners ?] ... anyway you clearly made a serious error by not reading the rset of scripture to build up the picture from scripture, not presumptions... and do not get me wrong, it is easy to do, as seen in the countless 'exegeses' of sinners who then spend their whole lives arguing that they are right instead of ceasing from sin and learning from God what His truth is in spirit baptism [ which is really what the bible is for in the first place, to help one decide to try Love, cease from sin, so God CAN teach one , only then, NOT AS A SINNER, can one help other sinners stop sinning so that GOD CAN TEACH them too... it really wastes whole lives to listen to sinners, not saints, and sinners abound in this world with their own mass religions of soothsayings for sinners and rituals for continued sin all one's life with no worries about losing salvation because God cannot come in to sinners :-

2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

but first one must attend to one's own sin, and once God sees one WANTSto stop sinning and has the will to stop sins one acknowledges, then the FIRST task of spirit baptism is the painful truth about oneself, all teh sins one does not admit to oneself come out so one can repent fully , for there is no salvation without full repentance, which means ceasing from sin so one can begin the perfection of love :-

Matthew 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

as Jesus says then -Rev 7:9-10- countless MANYare saved at judgement day who were all destroyed in the end of this earth [Matt 7:13] , they are freed from sin by the wages of sin, death , not by grace :-

Romans 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.

all released from hell and death because their spirit is of God , indestructible , and yet has not finished its work in the physical realm of perfecting love... so they are saved BY WORKS after resurrection of the unjust to the kingdom come in the new earth, they have no other way to get there but death and resurrection ...

Rev 20: 13 ... and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

clearly their sins in this earth are behind them then, they are judged by works in the kingdom before judgement day ... there would clearly be no point at all in pre-judging them on works in this earth since death frees man from sin and we know they were sinners to death in this world ... but many are saved in the RIGHTEOUS new earth, by the same three baptisms that saved the saints in this earth , so because they are ALL there ,even the babies who died young or in the womb, even those many who never knew of Jesus or lived early on in history , God can finally baptise all flesh [Joel 2:28] because they are free of sin through death ...and the saints do the persuading as priests ministering to billions in the righteous [loving] new earth kingdom and ruling BY LOVE as kings [unlike the kings of this earth who rule by force and sin] ...any sinners in the new earth need a second death to free them from sin yet again, and then baptism in the lake of fire to perfect their love in trial just the same as everyone else, even Jesus ...
so as Jesus says, ALL creation, every man, will bow to him as king of kings and the final ruler of all creation BY LOVE, no sin...

Philippians 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;

Revelation 5:13 And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.

[with apologies for the KJV , but we have no good translation of scripture , the work is always done by sinners and so they do not understand it and inevitably mangle it despite good intentions , at least the KJV captures some of the poetic style of the orignal which carries much of the meaning]

]

 

[strangertoo]

This is where all those whose names were written in the Book of LIFE will reside there as it says in verse 3, “Look! God’s dwelling place is now among the people, and he will dwell with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God." This is what Isaiah 65:17 refers to. Ecclesiastes 12:7 is the death experience the Jews believed would happen to them. There is not time frame on this as you assume and the end of verse 5 prior to that says, Then people go to their eternal home and mourners go about the streets.
This whole book has to be read WITHIN context and the writer, Solomon, was going through spiritual and mental depression. He starts this book with the words, “Meaningless! Meaningless!” says the Teacher. “Utterly meaningless! Everything is meaningless.” If that IS true then we may as well throw away our Bible's now and get off this forum.

well, sinners invented 'theology'. pretending one could analyse God from scripture, it is an integral part of the great delusion -2Thess 2, Rev 13:3-4- of the whole world by Satan , which God allows because mankind is not ready to stop sinning in THIS earth , in this Life ... God however requires His prophecy to come true despite Israel failing the first covenant :-

Exodus 19:6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.

so God , from the beginning, knew He has to send Jesus the man to convince the few of Israel [Rev 7:3-8] to become saints although the House of Israel was first rejected and scattered worldwide amongst all gentile nations, losing its identity and name as Israel, so its children live as gentiles believing they are gentiles , only the Jews kept their identtity as Israel [so that many who don't read the OT think that Israel is the 'Jews' , but Israel was always mostly non-Jewish and it si the Jews who suffered attrition since then, not the House of Israel living as gentiles ... the prophecies and promises of God make it clear how vast is the lost nation of the children of the House of Israel, all seemingly gentiles but truly descendants of Jacob :-

Deuteronomy 28:64 And the LORD shall scatter thee among all people, from the one end of the earth even unto the other; and there thou shalt serve other gods, which neither thou nor thy fathers have known, even wood and stone.

the Jews clung to Judaism , the House of Israel serve other gods even after being mixed in with the gentiles , indeed because of it ...

so God has to send a king to re-unite the two discrete very different parts of Israel , this is the anointed [Christ, Messiah] of Israel] :-

Ezekiel 37:22 And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all:

this then is why Jesus was sent ONLY to the House of Israel , but note that his kingdom is NOT of this earth, but the new earth :-

John 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world

but it is not in heaven as some, still sinners, imagine vainly :-

Revelation 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

thus , as revelation clarifies, the mass of the gentiles is saved in the kingdom come , only the FEW find the way in this earth by grace [Matt 7:14. Jude 1:14, Rev 7:3-8] , the many are saved by death freeing them from sin as its wages, and saved by works in the new earth kingdom come [Rev 20:13] , judged by works in the righteous kingdom

2 Peter 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness

What is clear is some PEOPLE err in reading and interpreting scripture. It DOESN'T mean we through the baby out with the bath water.
I am forced to ask you again based on your comments here, ARE YOU A SINNER? DO YOU SIN?

the ONLY ones who err are sinners , all God's people are taught all truth and the future (prophecy] by God Himself in spirit baptism ... so saints cannot err in relating the meaning of scripture once they have perfected love , but NO-ONEreceives God who does not love, and sin is abuse of others, not love.... no-one can be baptised of the spirit who is unprepared to stop sinning , sinners are servants of sin , continually give in to Satan's temptations :-

1 John 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil

John 8:34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.

how can it be written by saints any more clearly ?

the FIRST step is to stop sinning :-

2 Timothy 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

but wghat you are failing to understand is that it is GOD who decides when one has perfected love , ceased from sin , NOT US ...so we should sin if we claimed we were without sin [as the scripture rightly says] , it is not our judgement, it is God's decision as to whose PRIOR sin has stopped ...

as proof of this, consider what happens in spirit baptism, the very FIRST part of all truth revealed [John 16:13] is the truth about oneself... ALL the sins which one has not acknowledged to oneself come out FIRST , God reveals them so one can repent fully and STOP sinning ...

So it s God who says when one has become righteous, NOT US ... so ask God, not me

Within the CONTEXT of 1 John 3, verse 8 CANNOT be taken alone. Within proper hermeneutical context, verses 7-10 need to be read together.
Dear children, do not let anyone lead you astray. The one who does what is right is righteous, just as he is righteous. 8 The one who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil’s work. 9 No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God. 10 This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not God’s child, nor is anyone who does not love their brother and sister. Now maybe you will see WHAT the Word really says.
John 8:34 again WITHIN context shows Jesus talking to Jews who were mad at Him for calling them slaves. Read verse 33. Jesus was teaching them how they needed to transition from the Mosaic Law to the Law of the Spirit and faith in God's promise to Abraham which had now found its way to them.

You are putting things on scripture again, Jesus came to FULFIL the law , not to abandon it ... but Jesus came to fulfil God's law of Love and Moses made several mistakes because of the hardness of heart of the Israelites ... as for the old covenant , it is recorded that God told Israel that they would not keep it, even before they swore they would, just as Jesus told Peter he would deny him , before he swore he would not ...

Again, do you ever sin, or are you sinless?

Please LISTEN ... it is NOT my call , it is God's call ... and you are trying not only to trap me, but to make this personal, and it is not personal and you cannot trap me into sin because I KNOW it is God's call ... so I'm sorry you cannot understand that , I have tried very hard to explain it ... but this has to be your LAST warning, your attempts to make this personal are NOT ALLOWED here , you MUST STOP or the moderators will stop you with as little or as much force as necessary , even banning you if necessary to stop you... so LISTEN please else action will be taken , this is no place for discussing one another, it is a place for IMPERSONAL discussion of scripture... those are the RULES and you agreed to them ... so STOP ...now...

What Einstein theorized was that the faster light travels, the slower time goes. It IS a theory, not a fact. God is the Creator and ONLY He knows what time is ALL about. WE do NOT.

well Einstein did far more than that , he was the first to work out that time MUST depend upon space and vice versa , and it remained a theory until finally it was PROVEN ... so sorry, but you are in error there ... but i only mentioned it because the Physics finally came to agree with scripture , that time ends , because it began ... God on the other hand is end-less because He never began...

thus there is a fundamental distinction between creator and creation... God is not bound in time at all , but logically prior to time as its creator...

as for understanding time , it means nothing to God because He is time-less, does not 'change' , simply creates ... and at the end of the creation nothing has changed , God is still the same and the creation is gone... e.g. :-

Revelation 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away

so God just 'says' something is , and there , a new universe, and |God says 'no more' and it is gone...

universes , creations, then are somewhat like dreams are to us, or illusions, or virtual realities ...

our true reality is God, the spirit, because that is endless , our bodies are just creation that ends ...lifeless without the spirit to direct the 'dream' , the 'virtual reality'

Genesis 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

our endless essence then is as indestructible as God because it is of God, our spirit is our true reality , but the spirit is ONE God , not individuals ... so it is our illusion within the illusion that we are not ONE ... only love shows us that one-ness , sin gets in the way completely ...
so we have all to stop sinning , time is created enough for that , but we destroy this earth's viability before we all make it in this craetion, so God makes another so that as Jesus says, all will accept Love, accept him, eventually ... in the kingdom come in the new earth, not of THIS world ...

1 John 4:8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.

1 John 4:16 And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.

sinners are unloving , they can know God only when they stop sinning , and without spirit baptism for stopping sinning they get scripture wrong because they are easy prey for Satan's temptations which will take ver the whole world and its eventually united religion [bar only a few saints]
- Rev 13:3-4 - Jesus' perdiction, not mine ... do you believe him ? [no need to answer , it's rhetorical

 

[strangertoo]

Which verse are you referring to? Could it be that the exact same Greek word that also refers to eternal life? Hmm?

it is the spirit that is endless, not physical life ... the creator [endless] is different than and logically prior to the creation [that which begins and thus ends]

Was Einstein a sinner? Was he infallible?

Einstein made big mistakes , but nevertheless his general theory of relativity has been proven to be true, and so that Newton's assumptions are mistaken...

Would you have us throw away our Bibles and read Einstein?

not at all , you are creating 'strawmen ' now as is your style , but it is unhelpful ... there is no harm in reading BOTH

Alas, the eternal fire is taught throughout the NT. Charging our Bibles with grievous errors won't work.

it is not me uncovering the errors, it is the scripture itself , as I explained, Einstein's validated truths simply agree with the scripture , that the universe must end and so ends time , only to begin again and end again :-

Revelation 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away

A DETAILED account of the eternal fire:

Luke 16:22-28 (NASB)
22 "Now the poor man died and was carried away by the angels to Abraham's bosom; and the rich man also died and was buried. 23 "In Hades he lifted up his eyes, being in torment, and *saw Abraham far away and Lazarus in his bosom. 24 "And he cried out and said, 'Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus so that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool off my tongue, for I am in agony in this flame.' 25 "But Abraham said, 'Child, remember that during your life you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus bad things; but now he is being comforted here, and you are in agony. 26 ~'And besides all this, between us and you there is a great chasm fixed, so that those who wish to come over from here to you will not be able, and that none may cross over from there to us.' 27 "And he said, 'Then I beg you, father, that you send him to my father's house— 28 for I have five brothers—in order that he may warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.'

baptism of fire is indeed a trial for love, enough to make Jesus sweat blood in facing his unjust crucifixion ... it is no different for anyone else, in this life or the next , in the kingdom come in the new earth or outside in the lake of fire... but the point is that God is love, He has a POINT to suffering , thus it has to be fruitful, it has to end, and scripture says it does, all folks accept Jesus in the end , not by being punished for not doing so ,but simply because God is right, all othere ways than love, all sin, leads to suffering... God cannot save men from that ...but He does guarantee through Jesus that it ends :-

Philippians 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;

Revelation 5:13 And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.

so, not only does time end and the spirit return to endless God who gave it at the end of creations, universes, but pain is physical to, that ends...

Revelation 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away
...
Revelation 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

the key then perhaps is to see that the creator alone is endless [spirit] and creation begin and end [endless creations which each begin and end , have their own time which time-less changeless God does not have]

Thus the scripture proves the false translation of scripture , which many folks have indeed now written about , one can even read it on the web now if that would amuse

but the only way that works eventually is to stop sinning, then God Himself will explain EVERYTHING -John 16:13 ...

 

[brinny]

Originally Posted by brinny
you don't think that would offend God, Who gave such a great Sacrifice, as if His Sacrifice was of no account, something He took lightly, like it's no big deal?

My question to you, my brother in Christ, and son of the Most High, the living God, is this:

How enormous WAS the cost that was paid for your sins and mine?

Think about it. People suffer pain and torture every day; Torture and execution chambers are filled with innocent people all around the world.
I'm not diminishing the sacrifice of Christ at all--- However the sad fact is that there is nothing extraordinary about an innocent being executed.
Dying? Which of us has an immortal body? There is nothing extraordinary about dying.

However, there is a sacrifice that the Christ made that no one else could make. He chose to come into the world of forms, leaving His perfect place in the heavens, to take on death as a robe with the rest of us, to teach us who the Father really is, to rescue us from the thieves and robbers. He didn't have to do that.

Yes, He was killed. However, He got to push the reset button. You think Christ paid a blood price because of an angry Jealous God who demands blood? If the death of one pays the price for the sins of billions, what happens if the "sacrifice" refuses to stay dead? Was God fooled?

Two thousand years have passed since Jesus spent three hours on the cross. Is it still fresh in His mind, or has He been busy with other things? Maybe He was waiting on that device to go back to His perfect home?
Once He got back home, did He consider it a sacrifice to be there?

Or was it the teachings, that if followed, allow you to tread a path to perfection? If He had not died a martyrs death, would anybody even remember Him? Or would He have become another Confusious, with words of wisdom that fit in a fortune cookie?

Just thinking.

Jesus didn't come to earth to "die a martyr's death". It wasn't about three hours on the cross. It wasn't about "teachings". In Revelation we read how He returns as Conqueror. It is also written that He paraded His enemy's defeat in the sight of all of heaven. When He said "It is finished" He wasn't talking about breathing His last breath and dying.

His Word, from beginning to end, is fulfilled when He shed his blood. His death is predicted in Isaiah. So is his birth. He is defined in ways no one has been defined, from the beginning. For this was no ordinary man. in fact He wasn't a man, born as any other man. For he was born of a virgin.

God, through his only begotten Son, did what we could never do. He took upon Himself our curse, and death (through his Son). Who else could have done it?

He defeated the enemy. As it is written, Jesus now sits at the right hand of God the Father. He is our Defender against the accuser.

What was accomplished on the cross at the shedding of his blood was a turning of death and the curse into a tailspin, spinning backwards what began at the fall, sending it back from whence it came, and taking with it the one from which it generated.

The entire Bible, from beginning to end, like a glorious tapestry, of eternal proportions, unrolls this beautiful promise right before our very eyes. Hidden within it are glimpses of this God Who rejoices over us with singing, wears mercy like a cloak, and Who moved heaven and earth to once again, walk with us in a garden, in the cool of the day.

A glimpse like this one:

"He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God?" ~Micah 6:8

 

[Soulgazer]

Jesus didn't come to earth to "die a martyr's death". It wasn't about three hours on the cross. It wasn't about "teachings". In Revelation we read how He returns as Conqueror. It is also written that He paraded His enemy's defeat in the sight of all of heaven. When He said "It is finished" He wasn't talking about breathing His last breath and dying.

His Word, from beginning to end, is fulfilled when He shed his blood. His death is predicted in Isaiah. So is his birth. He is defined in ways no one has been defined, from the beginning. For this was no ordinary man. in fact He wasn't a man, born as any other man. For he was born of a virgin.

God, through his only begotten Son, did what we could never do. He took upon Himself our curse, and death (through his Son). Who else could have done it?

He defeated the enemy. As it is written, Jesus now sits at the right hand of God the Father. He is our Defender against the accuser.

What was accomplished on the cross at the shedding of his blood was a turning of death and the curse into a tailspin, spinning backwards what began at the fall, sending it back from whence it came, and taking with it the one from which it generated.

The entire Bible, from beginning to end, like a glorious tapestry, of eternal proportions, unrolls this beautiful promise right before our very eyes. Hidden within it are glimpses of this God Who rejoices over us with singing, wears mercy like a cloak, and Who moved heaven and earth to once again, walk with us in a garden, in the cool of the day.

A glimpse like this one:

"He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God?" ~Micah 6:8

That's one way of looking at it.

 

[brinny]

Originally Posted by brinny
Jesus didn't come to earth to "die a martyr's death". It wasn't about three hours on the cross. It wasn't about "teachings". In Revelation we read how He returns as Conqueror. It is also written that He paraded His enemy's defeat in the sight of all of heaven. When He said "It is finished" He wasn't talking about breathing His last breath and dying.

His Word, from beginning to end, is fulfilled when He shed his blood. His death is predicted in Isaiah. So is his birth. He is defined in ways no one has been defined, from the beginning. For this was no ordinary man. in fact He wasn't a man, born as any other man. For he was born of a virgin.

God, through his only begotten Son, did what we could never do. He took upon Himself our curse, and death (through his Son). Who else could have done it?

He defeated the enemy. As it is written, Jesus now sits at the right hand of God the Father. He is our Defender against the accuser.

What was accomplished on the cross at the shedding of his blood was a turning of death and the curse into a tailspin, spinning backwards what began at the fall, sending it back from whence it came, and taking with it the one from which it generated.

The entire Bible, from beginning to end, like a glorious tapestry, of eternal proportions, unrolls this beautiful promise right before our very eyes. Hidden within it are glimpses of this God Who rejoices over us with singing, wears mercy like a cloak, and Who moved heaven and earth to once again, walk with us in a garden, in the cool of the day.

A glimpse like this one:

"He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God?" ~Micah 6:8

That's one way of looking at it.

Kindly elaborate, brother.

 

[Soulgazer]

Kindly elaborate, brother.

I think that is a very lovely and spiritual insight. One of the better that I have read out of the hundreds in my near sixty years.

It reminds me a little of the "Treatise on the Resurrection", an old scripture found in the Nag Hammadi.

 

[brinny]

Originally Posted by brinny
Kindly elaborate, brother.

I think that is a very lovely and spiritual insight. One of the better that I have read out of the hundreds in my near sixty years.

Thank you kindly. Our God is an awesome God, isn't He?