Why can't God send us all to Heaven?

[Tavita]

some of this seems directed at another but the part about literal and figurative hell seems directed to me, so let me address that part. Neither heaven or hell are talked about that much in scripture. Most of scripture is about today, living a righteous life before God. for that reason I also purpose to make my focus about how to live in the Spirit today, and let "heaven" be my hope.

That being said, heaven and hell are talked about in scripture and as such I believe without question that they are real places. What is unclear to me is how much of what is told to us is figurative and how much is literal. Take for example...hum, Rev. is a great example. There are things there that are described that we cannot understand, so the description is more one of X is to Y as Z is to A. We can't understand God, or comprehend the things of God in this lifetime. We see through a glass dimly if you want the biblical quote. So what would make us think that it is literal, for example the streets of gold, why not, we would see them as gold but they are really a more precious metal than gold but would resemble gold because in our earthly flesh the closest comparison would be gold? I have no doubt that hell exists and that it will be torture, what I am unclear on is whether the intent of scripture is a literal fire, or what is like man's understanding of fire.

I hope that makes sense.

BTW, your welcome

Most of my post was for you, razzelflabben, so that you would know where I am coming from.

I have learned over the last thirty years, but more so in the last few that I should read the scriptures as more figurative, yes, they can be literal, but especially in Revelation I believe it is meant to be taken as John being 'in the Spirit'.. and we know that the language of the Spirit is not literal. I'm reminded of hearing prophecy in 'Church' when it is truly of the Spirit it is not in a literal sense.

In the first chapter of Rev you will see that the angel 'signified' it.. which means it is not literal but symbolic, and John being in the Spirit saw things and heard things that he explained in the language of the Spirit.

The Revelation of Jesus Christ is also called 'The Unveiling of Jesus Christ'..... IN YOU. The whole book concerns our experience and walk with Jesus Christ and is not meant to be a map for future events. Rev talks about what takes place WITHIN... the Kingdom of God is WITHIN ~ you ~ personally.. and that is what God is concerned with.

I also believe that hell is now.. and within. The word hell means “grave, hidden place” and we’re all in it. If you are in the Flesh than you are in the GRAVE (Hell) UNLESS you are born of Spirit. Hell is a mindset, it is a place we enter spiritually/emotionally when we believe the LIES from our carnal mind/ego and flee from the Truth of Christ within.

I guess it all comes down to seeing the scriptures 'by the Spirit' rather than through the carnal mindset.

 

[razzelflabben]

Most of my post was for you, razzelflabben, so that you would know where I am coming from.

I have learned over the last thirty years, but more so in the last few that I should read the scriptures as more figurative, yes, they can be literal, but especially in Revelation I believe it is meant to be taken as John being 'in the Spirit'.. and we know that the language of the Spirit is not literal. I'm reminded of hearing prophecy in 'Church' when it is truly of the Spirit it is not in a literal sense.

In the first chapter of Rev you will see that the angel 'signified' it.. which means it is not literal but symbolic, and John being in the Spirit saw things and heard things that he explained in the language of the Spirit.

The Revelation of Jesus Christ is also called 'The Unveiling of Jesus Christ'..... IN YOU. The whole book concerns our experience and walk with Jesus Christ and is not meant to be a map for future events. Rev talks about what takes place WITHIN... the Kingdom of God is WITHIN ~ you ~ personally.. and that is what God is concerned with.

I also believe that hell is now.. and within. The word hell means “grave, hidden place” and we’re all in it. If you are in the Flesh than you are in the GRAVE (Hell) UNLESS you are born of Spirit. Hell is a mindset, it is a place we enter spiritually/emotionally when we believe the LIES from our carnal mind/ego and flee from the Truth of Christ within.

I guess it all comes down to seeing the scriptures 'by the Spirit' rather than through the carnal mindset.

one thing you haven't addressed however is the difference in scripture between the grave, hell, and Abraham's bosom...it appears that they are all different from one another, at least from scriptural understanding. So what then are the differences? This first struck me when I considered Scoffield notes and cross references and is a fascinating study for anyone interested in putting the time and effort into it.

 

[Tavita]

one thing you haven't addressed however is the difference in scripture between the grave, hell, and Abraham's bosom...it appears that they are all different from one another, at least from scriptural understanding. So what then are the differences? This first struck me when I considered Scoffield notes and cross references and is a fascinating study for anyone interested in putting the time and effort into it.

Sorry... I didn't know you wanted me to address those things, so I'll have a go...

The word Hell means 'unseen', 'the grave'.

Strong's Greek Lexicon from <0001> (as negative particle) and <1492>; properly, unseen, i.e. "Hades" or the place (state) of departed souls:-grave, hell.


Hades is borrowed from pagan Greek mythology.


The story of Abraham's Bosom is a parable, an allegory...


Jesus always spoke to the multitudes in parables...


Mat 13:10 And the disciples came and said to Him, "Why do You speak to them in parables?"
Mat 13:11 Jesus answered them, "To you it has been granted to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been granted.

Mat 13:35 This was to fulfill what was spoken through the prophet: "I WILL OPEN MY MOUTH IN PARABLES; I WILL UTTER THINGS HIDDEN SINCE THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD."

Psalm 78:2
I (God) will open my mouth in a parable: I will utter dark sayings of old.

Here is how Strong's defines this word 'parable.'

"PAR'ABLE, n. [L. parabola; Gr. to throw forward or against, to compare to or against; as in confero, collatum, to set together, or one thing with another.] A fable or allegorical relation or representation of something real in life or nature, from which a moral is drawn for instruction; such as the parable of the trees choosing a king, Judg 9; the parable of the poor man and his lamb. 2 Sam 12; the parable of the ten virgins, Mat 25.


Those who are in Christ are in Abraham's seed.. then we know where Abraham's bosom is. Abraham's bosom is "in Christ," and being in "Abraham's bosom" is to be "asleep in Christ", or "dying daily" in Christ. The beggar represents those who die in Christ, who, without a resurrection would have perished because they are now physically dead:

Gal 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Hope that helps...

 

[razzelflabben]

Sorry... I didn't know you wanted me to address those things, so I'll have a go...

The word Hell means 'unseen', 'the grave'.

Strong's Greek Lexicon from <0001> (as negative particle) and <1492>; properly, unseen, i.e. "Hades" or the place (state) of departed souls:-grave, hell.


Hades is borrowed from pagan Greek mythology.


The story of Abraham's Bosom is a parable, an allegory...


Jesus always spoke to the multitudes in parables...


Mat 13:10 And the disciples came and said to Him, "Why do You speak to them in parables?"
Mat 13:11 Jesus answered them, "To you it has been granted to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been granted.

Mat 13:35 This was to fulfill what was spoken through the prophet: "I WILL OPEN MY MOUTH IN PARABLES; I WILL UTTER THINGS HIDDEN SINCE THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD."

Psalm 78:2
I (God) will open my mouth in a parable: I will utter dark sayings of old.

Here is how Strong's defines this word 'parable.'

"PAR'ABLE, n. [L. parabola; Gr. to throw forward or against, to compare to or against; as in confero, collatum, to set together, or one thing with another.] A fable or allegorical relation or representation of something real in life or nature, from which a moral is drawn for instruction; such as the parable of the trees choosing a king, Judg 9; the parable of the poor man and his lamb. 2 Sam 12; the parable of the ten virgins, Mat 25.


Those who are in Christ are in Abraham's seed.. then we know where Abraham's bosom is. Abraham's bosom is "in Christ," and being in "Abraham's bosom" is to be "asleep in Christ", or "dying daily" in Christ. The beggar represents those who die in Christ, who, without a resurrection would have perished because they are now physically dead:

Gal 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Hope that helps...

what I'm curious about is how "hades", "Abrahams bosom" and "hell" with it's fire and brimstone and gnashing of teeth, differ from one another in scripture and our understanding of them? You have eplained Hades and abrahams bosom from a scriptural standpoint, but said nothing of hell or how each differs according to scripture, which was my point of interest being that I already studied them.

 

[Der Alte]

[ . . . ]The word Hell means 'unseen', 'the grave'.

Strong's Greek Lexicon from <0001> (as negative particle) and <1492>; properly, unseen, i.e. "Hades" or the place (state) of departed souls:-grave, hell.

Hades is borrowed from pagan Greek mythology.

If Hades/hell is borrowed from Greek mythology how/why did the ancient Jews, before the time of Christ, believe in it? Note the scripture is highlighted in blue.

Jewish Encyclopedia, GEHENNA

The place where children were sacrificed to the god Moloch was originally in the "valley of the son of Hinnom," to the south of Jerusalem (Josh. xv. 8, passim; II Kings xxiii. 10; Jer. ii. 23; vii. 31-32; xix. 6, 13-14). For this reason the valley was deemed to be accursed, and "Gehenna" therefore soon became a figurative equivalent for "hell." Hell, like paradise, was created by God (Sotah 22a); [Note, this is according to the ancient Jews, long before the Christian era, NOT the bias of Christian translators.] according to Gen. R. ix. 9, the words "very good" in Gen. i. 31 refer to hell; hence the latter must have been created on the sixth day.

The "fiery furnace" that Abraham saw (Gen. xv. 17, Hebr.) was Gehenna (Mek. xx. 18b, 71b; comp. Enoch, xcviii. 3, ciii. 8; Matt. xiii. 42, 50; 'Er. 19a, where the "fiery furnace" is also identified with the gate of Gehenna). Opinions also vary as to the situation, extent, and nature of hell. The statement that Gehenna is situated in the valley of Hinnom near Jerusalem, in the "accursed valley" (Enoch, xxvii. 1 et seq.), means simply that it has a gate there. It was in Zion, and had a gate in Jerusalem (Isa. xxxi. 9). It had three gates, one in the wilderness, one in the sea, and one in Jerusalem ('Er. 19a). The gate lies between two palm-trees in the valley of Hinnom, from which smoke is continually rising (ib.).

Because of the extent of Gehenna the sun, on setting in the evening, passes by it, and receives from it its own fire (evening glow; B. B. 84a). A fiery stream ("dinur") falls upon the head of the sinner in Gehenna (hag. 13b).

There is a smell of sulfur in Gehenna (Enoch, lxvii. 6). This agrees with the Greek idea of hell (Lucian, &#913;&#955;&#951;&#952;&#949;&#953;&#962; &#921;&#963;&#964;&#959;&#961;&#953;&#945;&#953;, i. 29, in Dietrich, "Abraxas," p. 36). The sulfurous smell of the Tiberian medicinal springs was ascribed to their connection with Gehenna. In Isa. lxvi. 16, 24 it is said that God judges by means of fire.

Gehenna is dark in spite of the immense masses of fire; it is like night (Yeb. 109b; comp. Job x. 22). The same idea also occurs in Enoch, x. 4, lxxxii. 2; Matt. viii. 12, xxii. 13, xxv. 30 (comp. Schwally, l.c. p. 176).

It is assumed that there is an angel-prince in charge of Gehenna. He says to God: "Put everything into my sea; nourish me with the seed of Seth; I am hungry." But God refuses his request, telling him to take the heathen peoples (Shab. 104). God says to the angel-prince: "I punish the slanderers from above, and I also punish them from below with glowing coals" ('Ar. 15b).

Judgment.

It is assumed in general that sinners go to hell immediately after their death. The famous teacher Johanan b. Zakkai wept before his death because he did not know whether he would go to paradise or to hell (Ber. 28b). The pious go to paradise, and sinners to hell (B.M. 83b). To every individual is apportioned two shares, one in hell and one in paradise. At death, however, the righteous man's portion in hell is exchanged, so that he has two in heaven, while the reverse is true in the case of sinners (hag. 15a). Hence it would have been better for the latter not to have lived at all (Yeb. 63b).

They are cast into Gehenna to a depth commensurate with their sinfulness. They say: "Lord of the world, Thou hast done well; Paradise for the pious, Gehenna for the wicked" ('Er. 19a). There are three categories of men; the wholly pious and the arch-sinners are not purified, but only those between these two classes (Ab. R. N. 41). A similar view is expressed in the Babylonian Talmud, which adds that those who have sinned themselves but have not led others into sin remain for twelve months in Gehenna; "after twelve months their bodies are destroyed, their souls are burned, and the wind strews the ashes under the feet of the pious. But as regards the heretics, etc., and Jeroboam, Nebat's son, hell shall pass away, but they shall not pass away" (R. H. 17a; comp. Shab. 33b). All that descend into Gehenna shall come up again, with the exception of three classes of men: those who have committed adultery, or shamed their neighbors, or vilified them (B. M. 58b).

As mentioned above, heretics and the Roman oppressors go to Gehenna, and the same fate awaits the Persians, the oppressors of the Babylonian Jews (Ber. 8b). When Nebuchadnezzar descended into hell, [Sheol] all its inhabitants were afraid that he was coming to rule over them (Shab. 149a; comp. Isa. xiv. 9-10). The Book of Enoch also says that it is chiefly the heathen who are to be cast into the fiery pool on the Day of Judgment (x. 6, xci. 9, et al.). " The Lord, the Almighty, will punish them on the Day of Judgment by putting fire and worms into their flesh, so that they cry out with pain unto all eternity" (Judith xvi. 17). (see image) Valley of Ge-Hinnom.(From a photograph by Bonfils.) The sinners in Gehenna will be filled with pain when God puts back the souls into the dead bodies on the Day of Judgment, according to Isa. xxxiii. 11 (Sanh. 108b). Enoch also holds (xlviii. 9) that the sinners will disappear like chaff before the faces of the elect. There will be no Gehenna in the future world, however, for God will take the sun out of its case, and it will heal the pious with its rays and will punish the sinners (Ned. 8b).

Copyright 2002 JewishEncyclopedia.com. All rights reserved.

JewishEncyclopedia.com - GEHENNA​

The story of Abraham's Bosom is a parable, an allegory...

Jesus always spoke to the multitudes in parables...
Mat 13:10 And the disciples came and said to Him, "Why do You speak to them in parables?"
Mat 13:11 Jesus answered them, "To you it has been granted to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been granted.

Mat 13:35 This was to fulfill what was spoken through the prophet: "I WILL OPEN MY MOUTH IN PARABLES; I WILL UTTER THINGS HIDDEN SINCE THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD."

Psalm 78:2
I (God) will open my mouth in a parable: I will utter dark sayings of old.

Jesus was not talking to the crowds in Luke 16:19-31. See Lk 16:1 and 17:1, Jesus was talking to his disciples. All legitimate parables used common, ordinary events and situations, known and understood by his audience, to illustrate/clarify unknown or misunderstood Biblical truth. None of the parables are about mythical, false events. In all cases both the illustrations and the illustrated truths are factual, literal, actual, not allegory,metaphor, etc. There are similarly two truths in the story of the rich man and Lazarus. What happens before death and what happens after death. No allegory, metaphor, etc.

Those who are in Christ are in Abraham's seed.. then we know where Abraham's bosom is. Abraham's bosom is "in Christ," and being in "Abraham's bosom" is to be "asleep in Christ", or "dying daily" in Christ. The beggar represents those who die in Christ, who, without a resurrection would have perished because they are now physically dead:

Gal 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Hope that helps......

Abraham's bosom, represents the position of honor at a feast or dinner. The position immediately in front of the host as they recline at the table on their left elbow, with their feet extending away from the table.

 

[Tavita]

what I'm curious about is how "hades", "Abrahams bosom" and "hell" with it's fire and brimstone and gnashing of teeth, differ from one another in scripture and our understanding of them? You have eplained Hades and abrahams bosom from a scriptural standpoint, but said nothing of hell or how each differs according to scripture, which was my point of interest being that I already studied them.

Where does the Bible say hell is fire and brimstone and gnashing of teeth?

There are three types of 'hell' (and wrongly translated as hell... most new translations of the bible don't use the word hell anymore)

The word Hades was substituted for the Hebrew Sheol when the Hebrew scriptures were translated into Greek, and means 'the unseen', 'grave'.

Gehenna.. the rubbish dump outside the gates of Jerusalem where hundreds of thousands of bodies were dumped at the fall of Jerusalem in about AD70, and which no longer exists.

Tartarus... where the fallen angels are kept in chains.

 

[Tavita]

If Hades/hell is borrowed from Greek mythology how/why did the ancient Jews, before the time of Christ, believe in it? Note the scripture is highlighted in blue.

Jewish Encyclopedia, GEHENNA

The place where children were sacrificed to the god Moloch was originally in the "valley of the son of Hinnom," to the south of Jerusalem (Josh. xv. 8, passim; II Kings xxiii. 10; Jer. ii. 23; vii. 31-32; xix. 6, 13-14). For this reason the valley was deemed to be accursed, and "Gehenna" therefore soon became a figurative equivalent for "hell." Hell, like paradise, was created by God (Sotah 22a); [Note, this is according to the ancient Jews, long before the Christian era, NOT the bias of Christian translators.] according to Gen. R. ix. 9, the words "very good" in Gen. i. 31 refer to hell; hence the latter must have been created on the sixth day.

The "fiery furnace" that Abraham saw (Gen. xv. 17, Hebr.) was Gehenna (Mek. xx. 18b, 71b; comp. Enoch, xcviii. 3, ciii. 8; Matt. xiii. 42, 50; 'Er. 19a, where the "fiery furnace" is also identified with the gate of Gehenna). Opinions also vary as to the situation, extent, and nature of hell. The statement that Gehenna is situated in the valley of Hinnom near Jerusalem, in the "accursed valley" (Enoch, xxvii. 1 et seq.), means simply that it has a gate there. It was in Zion, and had a gate in Jerusalem (Isa. xxxi. 9). It had three gates, one in the wilderness, one in the sea, and one in Jerusalem ('Er. 19a). The gate lies between two palm-trees in the valley of Hinnom, from which smoke is continually rising (ib.).

Because of the extent of Gehenna the sun, on setting in the evening, passes by it, and receives from it its own fire (evening glow; B. B. 84a). A fiery stream ("dinur") falls upon the head of the sinner in Gehenna (hag. 13b).

There is a smell of sulfur in Gehenna (Enoch, lxvii. 6). This agrees with the Greek idea of hell (Lucian, &#913;&#955;&#951;&#952;&#949;&#953;&#962; &#921;&#963;&#964;&#959;&#961;&#953;&#945;&#953;, i. 29, in Dietrich, "Abraxas," p. 36). The sulfurous smell of the Tiberian medicinal springs was ascribed to their connection with Gehenna. In Isa. lxvi. 16, 24 it is said that God judges by means of fire.

Gehenna is dark in spite of the immense masses of fire; it is like night (Yeb. 109b; comp. Job x. 22). The same idea also occurs in Enoch, x. 4, lxxxii. 2; Matt. viii. 12, xxii. 13, xxv. 30 (comp. Schwally, l.c. p. 176).

It is assumed that there is an angel-prince in charge of Gehenna. He says to God: "Put everything into my sea; nourish me with the seed of Seth; I am hungry." But God refuses his request, telling him to take the heathen peoples (Shab. 104). God says to the angel-prince: "I punish the slanderers from above, and I also punish them from below with glowing coals" ('Ar. 15b).

Judgment.

It is assumed in general that sinners go to hell immediately after their death. The famous teacher Johanan b. Zakkai wept before his death because he did not know whether he would go to paradise or to hell (Ber. 28b). The pious go to paradise, and sinners to hell (B.M. 83b). To every individual is apportioned two shares, one in hell and one in paradise. At death, however, the righteous man's portion in hell is exchanged, so that he has two in heaven, while the reverse is true in the case of sinners (hag. 15a). Hence it would have been better for the latter not to have lived at all (Yeb. 63b).

They are cast into Gehenna to a depth commensurate with their sinfulness. They say: "Lord of the world, Thou hast done well; Paradise for the pious, Gehenna for the wicked" ('Er. 19a). There are three categories of men; the wholly pious and the arch-sinners are not purified, but only those between these two classes (Ab. R. N. 41). A similar view is expressed in the Babylonian Talmud, which adds that those who have sinned themselves but have not led others into sin remain for twelve months in Gehenna; "after twelve months their bodies are destroyed, their souls are burned, and the wind strews the ashes under the feet of the pious. But as regards the heretics, etc., and Jeroboam, Nebat's son, hell shall pass away, but they shall not pass away" (R. H. 17a; comp. Shab. 33b). All that descend into Gehenna shall come up again, with the exception of three classes of men: those who have committed adultery, or shamed their neighbors, or vilified them (B. M. 58b).

As mentioned above, heretics and the Roman oppressors go to Gehenna, and the same fate awaits the Persians, the oppressors of the Babylonian Jews (Ber. 8b). When Nebuchadnezzar descended into hell, [Sheol] all its inhabitants were afraid that he was coming to rule over them (Shab. 149a; comp. Isa. xiv. 9-10). The Book of Enoch also says that it is chiefly the heathen who are to be cast into the fiery pool on the Day of Judgment (x. 6, xci. 9, et al.). " The Lord, the Almighty, will punish them on the Day of Judgment by putting fire and worms into their flesh, so that they cry out with pain unto all eternity" (Judith xvi. 17). (see image) Valley of Ge-Hinnom.(From a photograph by Bonfils.) The sinners in Gehenna will be filled with pain when God puts back the souls into the dead bodies on the Day of Judgment, according to Isa. xxxiii. 11 (Sanh. 108b). Enoch also holds (xlviii. 9) that the sinners will disappear like chaff before the faces of the elect. There will be no Gehenna in the future world, however, for God will take the sun out of its case, and it will heal the pious with its rays and will punish the sinners (Ned. 8b).

Copyright 2002 JewishEncyclopedia.com. All rights reserved.

JewishEncyclopedia.com - GEHENNA​

Jesus was not talking to the crowds in Luke 16:19-31. See Lk 16:1 and 17:1, Jesus was talking to his disciples. All legitimate parables used common, ordinary events and situations, known and understood by his audience, to illustrate/clarify unknown or misunderstood Biblical truth. None of the parables are about mythical, false events. In all cases both the illustrations and the illustrated truths are factual, literal, actual, not allegory,metaphor, etc. There are similarly two truths in the story of the rich man and Lazarus. What happens before death and what happens after death. No allegory, metaphor, etc.



Abraham's bosom, represents the position of honor at a feast or dinner. The position immediately in front of the host as they recline at the table on their left elbow, with their feet extending away from the table.

Then do you accept the four different Jewish levels of interpreting Torah known as Pardes?..

Peshat - plain, simple, literal or direct meaning.

Remez - "hints" or the deep (allegoric: hidden or symbolic) meaning beyond just the literal sense.

Derash - "inquire" ("seek") &#8212; the comparative meaning (midrash), as given through similar occurrences.

Sod - "secret" ("mystery") or the mystical meaning, as given through inspiration or revelation.


Look deeper at the parable of Abrahams Bosom... don't just accept the literal interpretation.

Jesus was actually speaking to the Pharisee's at this point - and they knew exactly what He meant. The kingdom and their rulership would be taken from them and given to the Gentiles. This was not a teaching about hell.

Jesus began this series of parables in chapter fifteen, speaking to the Pharisee's, the multitudes AND the disciples. And you will find that Jesus always spoke to the multitudes in parables... the disciples always asked Him what He meant... ask, seek and knock. Isn't that what we're meant to do?

The Apostle to the Gentiles... Paul... never spoke about hell. Why? Why if it's so important did he never talk about it?

And surely you must know that Hades is from Greek mythology! I can hardly believe that the church down through history has turned a blind eye to this fact!

World Mythology Dictionary -

"In Greek mythology, one of the world-ruling sons of Kronos; the brother of Zeus; and the husband of Persephone. At the division of the universe after the overthrow of Kronos, Zeus took the sky, Poseidon the sea, and Hades the underworld; the earth was to be shared between them. &#8216;The house of Hades&#8217; was the habitation of the shades, the dead. Its ruler had the name Polydegmon, &#8216;receiver of many guests&#8217;, on account of the multitudes who streamed through its portals. Hades was a subterranean Zeus&#8212;chthonios, of the dark realm, as opposed to the cult of the sky god, hypsistos. So fierce and inexorable was the god of death that his worshippers used to avert their eyes when making a sacrifice. They called him Pluto, &#8216;the giver of wealth&#8217;, because no one wished to pronounce the dreaded name of Hades. This title refers of course to the blessings of the earth: crops, minerals, and clear water from springs. Hades as a place for the dead was a late development, but even then this dim realm bore no resemblance to the Christian hell. It was never a place of punishment."

The early Jews would have translated Sheol into Hades as there was no other word to express 'the unseen'.

 

[Der Alte]

I don't accept what the Jewish Encycopedia has to say.

If you do.. then you should accept the four different Jewish levels of interpreting Torah known as Pardes..

Peshat - plain, simple, literal or direct meaning.

Remez - "hints" or the deep (allegoric: hidden or symbolic) meaning beyond just the literal sense.

Derash - "inquire" ("seek") — the comparative meaning (midrash), as given through similar occurrences.

Sod - "secret" ("mystery") or the mystical meaning, as given through inspiration or revelation.

I suggest you actually read my post before you start condemning me and dictating what I should and should not believe. What you think about the Jewish Encyclopedia is irrelevant! My post was in response to the usual, "Hades/hell is not Biblical it was borrowed from Greek mythology" argument. To which I replied if that is true how/why did the ancient Jews, before the time of Christ, believe in it? The Jews, ALL the Jews, at the time of Christ, including the disciples, believed in a literal hell where the unrighteous are punished eternally. Jesus neither said nor did anything which contradicted that teaching. In fact he taught on more that one occasion that the unrighteous were punished in Gehenna/Hades.

Look deeper at the parable of Abrahams Bosom... don't just accept the literal interpretation.

Right, lets just spiritualize, allegorize everything in the Bible to make it fit our own assumptions/presuppositions. NONE of the legitimate parables have some kind of hidden spiritual meaning. Jesus used common, ordinary, everyday actual events and circumstances that his audience understood to illustrate Biblical truths they did not know or understand. In all cases both sides of the parable were actual, literal things NOT something spiritual, or metaphorical they had to figure out.

Jesus was actually speaking to the Pharisee's at this point. He began this series of parables in chapter fifteen, speaking to the Pharisee's, the multitudes AND the disciples. And you will find that Jesus always spoke to the multitudes in parables... the disciples always asked Him what He meant... ask, seek and knock. Isn't that what we're meant to do?

You may have been taught that Jesus was talking to the Pharisees in Luke 16:19-31 and you may sincerely believe it but that is not what scripture says. Luke 16:1 and 17:1 tells us to whom he was talking in Luke 16.

Luk 16:1 And he [Jesus] said also unto his disciples, There was a certain rich man, which had a steward; and the same was accused unto him that he had wasted his goods.

Luk 17:1 Then said he unto the disciples, It is impossible but that offences will come: but woe unto him, through whom they come!​

In 16:14 the Pharisees happened to over hear what Jesus was saying and started criticizing him.

 

[razzelflabben]

Where does the Bible say hell is fire and brimstone and gnashing of teeth?

Here's a small sampling...
Matthew 5:22
But I tell you that anyone who is angry with his brother will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to his brother, 'Raca, ' is answerable to the Sanhedrin. But anyone who says, 'You fool!' will be in danger of the fire of hell.

Matthew 18:8
If your hand or your foot causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life maimed or crippled than to have two hands or two feet and be thrown into eternal fire.

Luke 16:24
So he called to him, 'Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.'

Revelation 14:10
The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

Revelation 19:20
And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

Revelation 20:10
And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Revelation 21:8
But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Matthew 22:13
Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness, there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Matthew 24:51
And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Luke 13:28
There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out.

Matthew 13:49-51 (New International Version)

49This is how it will be at the end of the age. The angels will come and separate the wicked from the righteous 50and throw them into the fiery furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

There are three types of 'hell' (and wrongly translated as hell... most new translations of the bible don't use the word hell anymore)

The word Hades was substituted for the Hebrew Sheol when the Hebrew scriptures were translated into Greek, and means 'the unseen', 'grave'.

Gehenna.. the rubbish dump outside the gates of Jerusalem where hundreds of thousands of bodies were dumped at the fall of Jerusalem in about AD70, and which no longer exists.

Tartarus... where the fallen angels are kept in chains.

yep and what of Tartarus, explain it...because God says HE will use it for man as well. IOW's it was created for fallen angels but will be used for man.

Matt. 25:
41Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
42For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
43I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
44Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
45Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
46And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

 

[Der Alte]

[ . . . ]World Mythology Dictionary -

"In Greek mythology, one of the world-ruling sons of Kronos; the brother of Zeus; and the husband of Persephone. At the division of the universe after the overthrow of Kronos, Zeus took the sky, Poseidon the sea, and Hades the underworld; the earth was to be shared between them. ‘The house of Hades’ was the habitation of the shades, the dead. Its ruler had the name Polydegmon, ‘receiver of many guests’, on account of the multitudes who streamed through its portals. Hades was a subterranean Zeus—chthonios, of the dark realm, as opposed to the cult of the sky god, hypsistos. So fierce and inexorable was the god of death that his worshippers used to avert their eyes when making a sacrifice. They called him Pluto, ‘the giver of wealth’, because no one wished to pronounce the dreaded name of Hades. This title refers of course to the blessings of the earth: crops, minerals, and clear water from springs. Hades as a place for the dead was a late development, but even then this dim realm bore no resemblance to the Christian hell. It was never a place of punishment."

The early Jews would have translated Sheol into Hades as there was no other word to express 'the unseen'.

Don't you think this is more than a little hypocritical? You will accept what a dictionary says but you reject what the Jewish Encyclopedia, edited by 30+ Jewish rabbis and scholars, says about Jewish scripture and their beliefs based on those scripture? Please note I highlighted the scripture in blue. IIRC there are 39 scripture in the above quote.

What you think Jews might or might not have translated and the reason are not evidence!

 

[razzelflabben]

Then do you accept the four different Jewish levels of interpreting Torah known as Pardes?..

Peshat - plain, simple, literal or direct meaning.

Remez - "hints" or the deep (allegoric: hidden or symbolic) meaning beyond just the literal sense.

Derash - "inquire" ("seek") — the comparative meaning (midrash), as given through similar occurrences.

Sod - "secret" ("mystery") or the mystical meaning, as given through inspiration or revelation.


Look deeper at the parable of Abrahams Bosom... don't just accept the literal interpretation.

Jesus was actually speaking to the Pharisee's at this point - and they knew exactly what He meant. The kingdom and their rulership would be taken from them and given to the Gentiles. This was not a teaching about hell.

Jesus began this series of parables in chapter fifteen, speaking to the Pharisee's, the multitudes AND the disciples. And you will find that Jesus always spoke to the multitudes in parables... the disciples always asked Him what He meant... ask, seek and knock. Isn't that what we're meant to do?

The Apostle to the Gentiles... Paul... never spoke about hell. Why? Why if it's so important did he never talk about it?

maybe because hell isn't as important as most people think...God is...our relationship with Christ, is. Just a thought for what it's worth, maybe hell isn't taught in scripture as such a big deal, not because it doesn't exist, but rather because it isn't the key, the focus, God is. [

 

[Tavita]

I suggest you actually read my post before you start condemning me and dictating what I should and should not believe. What you think about the Jewish Encyclopedia is irrelevant! My post was in response to the usual, "Hades/hell is not Biblical it was borrowed from Greek mythology" argument. To which I replied if that is true how/why did the ancient Jews, before the time of Christ, believe in it? The Jews, ALL the Jews, at the time of Christ, including the disciples, believed in a literal hell where the unrighteous are punished eternally. Jesus neither said nor did anything which contradicted that teaching. In fact he taught on more that one occasion that the unrighteous were punished in Gehenna/Hades.

Sorry that I offended you. However, you answered me while I was correcting my post and I took that part out...
"I don't accept what the Jewish Encycopedia has to say.

If you do.. then you should accept the four different Jewish levels of interpreting Torah known as Pardes.."

The Jews, ALL the Jews, at the time of Christ, including the disciples, believed in a literal hell where the unrighteous are punished eternally. Jesus neither said nor did anything which contradicted that teaching.

Yes He did..

[SIZE=-1]Had our Lord intended to indoctrinate the doctrine of the Pharisees, he would have used the terms by which they described it. But his word defining the duration of punishment was aionian, while their words are aidion, adialeipton, and athanaton. Instead of saying with Philo and Josephus, thanaton athanaton, deathless or immortal death; eirgmon aidion, eternal imprisonment; aidion timorion, eternal torment; and thanaton ateleuteton, interminable death, he used aionion kolasin, an adjective in universal use for limited duration, and a noun denoting suffering producing improvement.[/SIZE]
Here

Right, lets just spiritualize, allegorize everything in the Bible to make it fit our own assumptions/presuppositions. NONE of the legitimate parables have some kind of hidden spiritual meaning. Jesus used common, ordinary, everyday actual events and circumstances that his audience understood to illustrate Biblical truths they did not know or understand. In all cases both sides of the parable were actual, literal things NOT something spiritual, or metaphorical they had to figure out.

If parables were actual literal easy to understand things then why did Jesus say this?...

Mat 13:10 And the disciples came and said to Him, "Why do You speak to them in parables?"
Mat 13:11 Jesus answered them, "To you it has been granted to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been granted.

Mat 13:35 This was to fulfill what was spoken through the prophet: "I WILL OPEN MY MOUTH IN PARABLES; I WILL UTTER THINGS HIDDEN SINCE THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD."

Psalm 78:2
I (God) will open my mouth in a parable: I will utter dark sayings of old.

Here is how Strong's defines this word 'parable.'

"PAR'ABLE, n. [L. parabola; Gr. to throw forward or against, to compare to or against; as in confero, collatum, to set together, or one thing with another.] A fable or allegorical relation or representation of something real in life or nature, from which a moral is drawn for instruction; such as the parable of the trees choosing a king, Judg 9; the parable of the poor man and his lamb. 2 Sam 12; the parable of the ten virgins, Mat 25.

You may have been taught that Jesus was talking to the Pharisees in Luke 16:19-31 and you may sincerely believe it but that is not what scripture says. Luke 16:1 and 17:1 tells us to whom he was talking in Luke 16.

Luk 16:1 And he [Jesus] said also unto his disciples, There was a certain rich man, which had a steward; and the same was accused unto him that he had wasted his goods.

Luk 17:1 Then said he unto the disciples, It is impossible but that offences will come: but woe unto him, through whom they come!​

In 16:14 the Pharisees happened to over hear what Jesus was saying and started criticizing him.

Here is the scripture quoted!

Luk 16:14 Now the Pharisees, who were lovers of money, were listening to all these things and were scoffing at Him.
Luk 16:15 And He said to them, "You are those who justify yourselves in the sight of men, but God knows your hearts; for that which is highly esteemed among men is detestable in the sight of God.
Luk 16:16 "The Law and the Prophets were proclaimed until John; since that time the gospel of the kingdom of God has been preached, and everyone is forcing his way into it.
Luk 16:17 "But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass away than for one stroke of a letter of the Law to fail.
Luk 16:18 "Everyone who divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery, and he who marries one who is divorced from a husband commits adultery.
Luk 16:19 "Now there was a rich man, and he habitually dressed in purple and fine linen, joyously living in splendor every day.
Luk 16:20 "And a poor man named Lazarus was laid at his gate, covered with sores,
Luk 16:21 and longing to be fed with the crumbs which were falling from the rich man's table; besides, even the dogs were coming and licking his sores.
ETC.

 

[visionary]

I'm a Christian but this has bothered me all my life. If God loves us all and wants us all to go to Heaven and to be saved, and if He is all powerful why did he make Hell? Why did he have to make his son suffer?

Don't get offended by this question. I don't know how else to put it into words. Thanks

Earth would have been heavenly if it wasn't for sin.. which makes it hell on earth... Sin has to be removed.. PArt of the process of this removal did involve sacrifice which He was willing to do... Now take that to heart and know that is where the cleansing begins in your own life... He will open your eyes to the sin in you and all around you.. He will cleanse your temple and dwell therein to lead and guide you through the wilderness of sin... listen and obey.. His Word is truth and it will set you free.

 

[Tavita]

maybe because hell isn't as important as most people think...God is...our relationship with Christ, is. Just a thought for what it's worth, maybe hell isn't taught in scripture as such a big deal, not because it doesn't exist, but rather because it isn't the key, the focus, God is. [

I agree, the focus is God.

 

[Der Alte]

[ . . . ]Gehenna.. the rubbish dump outside the gates of Jerusalem where hundreds of thousands of bodies were dumped at the fall of Jerusalem in about AD70, and which no longer exists.[ . . . ]

And the truth of the matter is,

The traditional explanation that a burning rubbish heap in the Valley of Hinnom south of Jerusalem gave rise to the idea of a fiery Gehenna of judgment is attributed to Rabbi David Kimhi's commentary on Psalm 27:13 (ca. A.D. 1200). He maintained that in this loathsome valley fires were kept burning perpetually to consume the filth and cadavers thrown into it. However, Strack and Billerbeck state that there is neither archaeological nor literary evidence in support of this claim, in either the earlier intertestamental or the later rabbinic sources (Hermann L. Strack and Paul Billerbeck, Kommentar zum Neuen Testament aus Talmud and Midrasch, 5 vols. [Munich: Beck, 1922-56], 4:2:1030). Also a more recent author holds a similar view (Lloyd R. Bailey, "Gehenna: The Topography of Hell," Biblical Archeologist 49 [1986]: 189.​

How much more of what you have been taught about scripture is totally false as this is?

 

[Der Alte]

Sorry that I offended you. However, you answered me while I was correcting my post and I took that part out...
"I don't accept what the Jewish Encycopedia has to say.

If you do.. then you should accept the four different Jewish levels of interpreting Torah known as Pardes.."

Nonsequitur! I don't have to believe anything else because I accept what Jewish scholars say about their beliefs according to scripture. "The four different Jewish levels of interpreting Torah known as Parde" are NOT part of scripture so they are irrelevant. The belief in hell as a place of eternal punishment of the wicked is based on what is written in scripture. Read the article I posted instead of just rejecting it outright!

Yes He did..

Had our Lord intended to indoctrinate the doctrine of the Pharisees, he would have used the terms by which they described it. But his word defining the duration of punishment was aionian, while their words are aidion, adialeipton, and athanaton. Instead of saying with Philo and Josephus, thanaton athanaton, deathless or immortal death; eirgmon aidion, eternal imprisonment; aidion timorion, eternal torment; and thanaton ateleuteton, interminable death, he used aionion kolasin, an adjective in universal use for limited duration, and a noun denoting suffering producing improvement.
Here.

Just as you have been misinformed on many other things you are misinformed on this as well. This is a logical fallacy, argument from silence! Jesus did NOT teach or do anything which contradicts the prevalent Jewish teaching. Philo used the word "aionian" to mean eternal, unending, everlasting. Here are links to a two part post citing nine (9) Greek language sources which show the meaning of aionian/aion to be eternal, everlasting, unending, etc. including quotes from Philo and other pre-Christian Greek writers.

Nine sources cited: Total of 14 references. 1. NAS Hebrew-Aramaic and Greek Dictionaries, 2. Thayer&#8217;s Lexicon, 3. Vine&#8217;s Expository of Biblical Words, 3 references, 4. Louw-Nida Greek English Lexicon of the NT based on Semantic Domains, 2 references, 5. Theological Dictionary of the New Testament, 6. Abridged Greek lexicon, Liddell-Scott, 7. Enhanced Strong&#8217;s Lexicon, 3 references, 8. Bauer, Arndt, Gingrich, Danker Greek English Lexicon of the NT and other Early Christian Literature, 9. Concise Greek-English Dictionary of the NT.

http://www.christianforums.com/t7505735-17/#post55904003

http://www.christianforums.com/t7505735-18/#post55904050

If parables were actual literal easy to understand things then why did Jesus say this?...

Mat 13:10 And the disciples came and said to Him, "Why do You speak to them in parables?"
Mat 13:11 Jesus answered them, "To you it has been granted to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been granted.

Mat 13:35 This was to fulfill what was spoken through the prophet: "I WILL OPEN MY MOUTH IN PARABLES; I WILL UTTER THINGS HIDDEN SINCE THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD."

Psalm 78:2
I (God) will open my mouth in a parable: I will utter dark sayings of old.

I am aware of all this but it does not change the fact that both sides of a parable were factual actual, not mysterious metaphors which had to be explained. If you can show me any other parable. For example the parable of the lost sheep. The lord rejoices over one lost sheep (person) being found just as a shepherd rejoices of finding one lost sheep. No supposedly hidden references to Pharisees, or gentiles and Jews.

Here is how Strong's defines this word 'parable.'

"PAR'ABLE, n. [L. parabola; Gr. to throw forward or against, to compare to or against; as in confero, collatum, to set together, or one thing with another.] A fable or allegorical relation or representation of something real in life or nature, from which a moral is drawn for instruction; such as the parable of the trees choosing a king, Judg 9; the parable of the poor man and his lamb. 2 Sam 12; the parable of the ten virgins, Mat 25.

I am well aware of the meaning of parable. But you seemed to have ignored what you, yourself, posted. That a parable is "A fable or allegorical relation or representation of something real in life or nature, from which a moral is drawn for instruction;" The audience had to understand the first part of a parable. "Something real in life and nature" NOT a hidden reference to the priesthood, Pharisees, Jews vs. gentiles, etc. And the moral is NOT a fable, a legend, some mysterious hidden reference to the Jewish priesthood, etc. and certainly not something which was supposedly a later development in pagan thought, i.e. hades being a place of torment in fire, Luke 16:19-31.

Here is the scripture quoted!

Luk 16:14 Now the Pharisees, who were lovers of money, were listening to all these things and were scoffing at Him.
Luk 16:15 And He said to them, "You are those who justify yourselves in the sight of men, but God knows your hearts; for that which is highly esteemed among men is detestable in the sight of God.
[ . . . ]

And while you are quoting this at me you are ignoring 16:1 and 17:1 where it clearly identifies Jesus' intended audience was the disciples. As I said, in vs. 14 the Pharisees happened to overhear what Jesus was saying, took offense and started criticizing him. Where does Jesus ever identify Luke 16:19-31 as a parable and explain it to his disciples? Answer: NEVER!

 

[Cain Spencer]

sorry, deleted

You naughty little kitty! lolz

 

[Tavita]

And the truth of the matter is,

The traditional explanation that a burning rubbish heap in the Valley of Hinnom south of Jerusalem gave rise to the idea of a fiery Gehenna of judgment is attributed to Rabbi David Kimhi's commentary on Psalm 27:13 (ca. A.D. 1200). He maintained that in this loathsome valley fires were kept burning perpetually to consume the filth and cadavers thrown into it. However, Strack and Billerbeck state that there is neither archaeological nor literary evidence in support of this claim, in either the earlier intertestamental or the later rabbinic sources (Hermann L. Strack and Paul Billerbeck, Kommentar zum Neuen Testament aus Talmud and Midrasch, 5 vols. [Munich: Beck, 1922-56], 4:2:1030). Also a more recent author holds a similar view (Lloyd R. Bailey, "Gehenna: The Topography of Hell," Biblical Archeologist 49 [1986]: 189.​

How much more of what you have been taught about scripture is totally false as this is?

Oh but of course your Jewish Encyclopedia is so correct isn't it Mr Der Alter!!

You would rather believe those in the man made religion of Judaism than any other source!

 

[Tavita]

Nonsequitur! I don't have to believe anything else because I accept what Jewish scholars say about their beliefs according to scripture. "The four different Jewish levels of interpreting Torah known as Parde" are NOT part of scripture so they are irrelevant. The belief in hell as a place of eternal punishment of the wicked is based on what is written in scripture. Read the article I posted instead of just rejecting it outright!



Just as you have been misinformed on many other things you are misinformed on this as well. This is a logical fallacy, argument from silence! Jesus did NOT teach or do anything which contradicts the prevalent Jewish teaching. Philo used the word "aionian" to mean eternal, unending, everlasting. Here are links to a two part post citing nine (9) Greek language sources which show the meaning of aionian/aion to be eternal, everlasting, unending, etc. including quotes from Philo and other pre-Christian Greek writers.

Nine sources cited: Total of 14 references. 1. NAS Hebrew-Aramaic and Greek Dictionaries, 2. Thayer’s Lexicon, 3. Vine’s Expository of Biblical Words, 3 references, 4. Louw-Nida Greek English Lexicon of the NT based on Semantic Domains, 2 references, 5. Theological Dictionary of the New Testament, 6. Abridged Greek lexicon, Liddell-Scott, 7. Enhanced Strong’s Lexicon, 3 references, 8. Bauer, Arndt, Gingrich, Danker Greek English Lexicon of the NT and other Early Christian Literature, 9. Concise Greek-English Dictionary of the NT.

http://www.christianforums.com/t7505735-17/#post55904003

http://www.christianforums.com/t7505735-18/#post55904050



I am aware of all this but it does not change the fact that both sides of a parable were factual actual, not mysterious metaphors which had to be explained. If you can show me any other parable. For example the parable of the lost sheep. The lord rejoices over one lost sheep (person) being found just as a shepherd rejoices of finding one lost sheep. No supposedly hidden references to Pharisees, or gentiles and Jews.



I am well aware of the meaning of parable. But you seemed to have ignored what you, yourself, posted. That a parable is "A fable or allegorical relation or representation of something real in life or nature, from which a moral is drawn for instruction;" The audience had to understand the first part of a parable. "Something real in life and nature" NOT a hidden reference to the priesthood, Pharisees, Jews vs. gentiles, etc. And the moral is NOT a fable, a legend, some mysterious hidden reference to the Jewish priesthood, etc. and certainly not something which was supposedly a later development in pagan thought, i.e. hades being a place of torment in fire, Luke 16:19-31.



And while you are quoting this at me you are ignoring 16:1 and 17:1 where it clearly identifies Jesus' intended audience was the disciples. As I said, in vs. 14 the Pharisees happened to overhear what Jesus was saying, took offense and started criticizing him. Where does Jesus ever identify Luke 16:19-31 as a parable and explain it to his disciples? Answer: NEVER!

I'm not going to allow you to bully me with your stand over tactics into defending myself, Mr Der Alter.

 

[Der Alte]

And the truth of the matter is,

The traditional explanation that a burning rubbish heap in the Valley of Hinnom south of Jerusalem gave rise to the idea of a fiery Gehenna of judgment is attributed to Rabbi David Kimhi's commentary on Psalm 27:13 (ca. A.D. 1200). He maintained that in this loathsome valley fires were kept burning perpetually to consume the filth and cadavers thrown into it. However, Strack and Billerbeck state that there is neither archaeological nor literary evidence in support of this claim, in either the earlier intertestamental or the later rabbinic sources (Hermann L. Strack and Paul Billerbeck, Kommentar zum Neuen Testament aus Talmud and Midrasch, 5 vols. [Munich: Beck, 1922-56], 4:2:1030). Also a more recent author holds a similar view (Lloyd R. Bailey, "Gehenna: The Topography of Hell," Biblical Archeologist 49 [1986]: 189.​

How much more of what you have been taught about scripture is totally false as this is?

Oh but of course your Jewish Encyclopedia is so correct isn't it Mr Der Alter!!

You would rather believe those in the man made religion of Judaism than any other source!

Don't know if you noticed. This quote was not from the Jewish Encyclopedia. It was a historical, archaeological study published in the Biblical Archeologist in 1986. And you have what kind of credible, verifiable, historical evidence that the valley of Hinnom was ever used as a garbage dump, which was continually burning? Note from the citation posted the first and only reference to Gehenna being a garbage dump was in 1200 AD. And according to the study there is no archaeological evidence in valley of Hinnom showing that it was ever used as a garbage dump. If Hinnom had ever been a garbage dump there would be broken pottery, bones, broken utensils and tools, etc. There is no such evidence!
I was hoping you would be interested in factual evidence from reliable sources.