Why can't God send us all to Heaven?

[Preecher]

whatever dude...no matter what side you take, it seems to me that being honest about what another is saying is the first step to loving as Christ loved. Twisting the words of another, even if the other person is wrong, is not the love God has called us to.

Are you saying she is not claiming that all humans will be saved no matter how much we sin???

 

[razzelflabben]

Are you saying she is not claiming that all humans will be saved no matter how much we sin???

Honestly, she can speak for herself, what I am however saying is that it is unloving to read into other peoples posts what is not there so that you can make an argument, whether you are the one who is right or not.

 

[Cain Spencer]

....because some of us don't want to be with Him.

 

[Preecher]

Honestly, she can speak for herself, what I am however saying is that it is unloving to read into other peoples posts what is not there so that you can make an argument, whether you are the one who is right or not.

Why are you accusing me if you don't know? And why are you speaking for her now? Are you showing the love of God?

 

[Cain Spencer]

Honestly, she can speak for herself, what I am however saying is that it is unloving to read into other peoples posts what is not there so that you can make an argument, whether you are the one who is right or not.

Honestly, why do you have to be so logical!? It's people like you that forced politics to go mad!

 

[razzelflabben]

....because some of us don't want to be with Him.

and some are deceived into thinking being with HIm is not possible or that nothing is required.

 

[Cain Spencer]

and some are deceived into thinking being with HIm is not possible or that nothing is required.

If we wish for our lives to be "Godless" then that is what we shall get... even after it. That is Gods mercy.

 

[razzelflabben]

If we wish for our lives to be "Godless" then that is what we shall get... even after it. That is Gods mercy.

no argument from me.

 

[Cain Spencer]

no argument from me.

Hell isn't always a direct result of sin alone.

 

[razzelflabben]

Hell isn't always a direct result of sin alone.

please explain

 

[Cain Spencer]

please explain

We don't go to hell just for sins, we could go to hell just for rejecting God. He doesn't force Himself on anyone even after death. Hell also is not necessarily painful but it could be a simple feeling of complete isolation from God.

 

[razzelflabben]

We don't go to hell just for sins, we could go to hell just for rejecting God. He doesn't force Himself on anyone even after death. Hell also is not necessarily painful but it could be a simple feeling of complete isolation from God.

Sin is missing the mark, or disobeying the law, right? The first law when Jesus answered the question of greatest law was to love the Lord with all your heart, soul, mind. Seems to me that rejecting God is breaking the greatest commend, which means it's a sin....

As to hell, scripture says it's separation from God, it also says it is fire and brimstone....wailing and gnashing of teeth, so I'm not sure I can go along with the not painful thing, but I'm also not sure how much of the description is literal and how much is figurative....

 

[oi_antz]

Sin is missing the mark, or disobeying the law, right? The first law when Jesus answered the question of greatest law was to love the Lord with all your heart, soul, mind. Seems to me that rejecting God is breaking the greatest commend, which means it's a sin....

As to hell, scripture says it's separation from God, it also says it is fire and brimstone....wailing and gnashing of teeth, so I'm not sure I can go along with the not painful thing, but I'm also not sure how much of the description is literal and how much is figurative....

Pain implies discomfort due to the nerves, whereas the separation from God is torment due to a lack of love. When the Bible says fire and brimstone, that implies pain, whereas when it says the worm never sleeps and wailing and gnashing of teeth it implies torment. Some people live in torment already because of this, but because the world provides sufficient pleasure to distract us it does have a tendency to mask the sufferings of the here and now.

 

[razzelflabben]

Pain implies discomfort due to the nerves, whereas the separation from God is torment due to a lack of love. When the Bible says fire and brimstone, that implies pain, whereas when it says the worm never sleeps and wailing and gnashing of teeth it implies torment. Some people live in torment already because of this, but because the world provides sufficient pleasure to distract us it does have a tendency to mask the sufferings of the here and now.

seems to be off topic but I would suggest a study on the issue would involve looking at the passages in question and applying literary rules to them to determine if they are literal or figurative. Cross references and history would also be helpful

 

[Cain Spencer]

Sin is missing the mark, or disobeying the law, right? The first law when Jesus answered the question of greatest law was to love the Lord with all your heart, soul, mind. Seems to me that rejecting God is breaking the greatest commend, which means it's a sin....

As to hell, scripture says it's separation from God, it also says it is fire and brimstone....wailing and gnashing of teeth, so I'm not sure I can go along with the not painful thing, but I'm also not sure how much of the description is literal and how much is figurative....

We can understand eachother on those grounds.

 

[Tavita]

Sin is missing the mark, or disobeying the law, right? The first law when Jesus answered the question of greatest law was to love the Lord with all your heart, soul, mind. Seems to me that rejecting God is breaking the greatest commend, which means it's a sin....

As to hell, scripture says it's separation from God, it also says it is fire and brimstone....wailing and gnashing of teeth, so I'm not sure I can go along with the not painful thing, but I'm also not sure how much of the description is literal and how much is figurative....

Thank you for your VERY loving defense of me in my absence razzelflabben!

Firstly can I say a few things to give you an understanding of where I'm coming from..

I don't believe in free will.
Jesus said we could do nothing of ourselves.
Until HE chooses us... we are dead in trespasses and sin.
We are DEAD spiritually.
How can a dead man who is devoid of spiritual life choose God?
It is ONLY by the faith OF Jesus Christ that we can be delivered, saved, set free... anything. We can do nothing of ourselves.

Christ dealt with sin on the cross... HE said "It is finished!"
The Church is too sin conscious... we must become more Christ conscious.

I believe that not ALL are chosen in THIS lifetime. ALL are redeemed but not ALL are saved in THIS lifetime. That's why I gave a quote from a very early Church Father who said that some are chosen now... the rest later.
God works in AGES.

There is not one scripture verse that says THIS LIFETIME is the only time we can be saved.

Anytime we read of the judgments of God we must realize they BEGIN at the House of God... NOT unbelievers!

We also must take into consideration that the Apostle Paul... who was to take the gospel to the nations... never once spoke about hell in his letters... why is that? If it is so important then why didn't he expound on it?

And you are thinking well when you say... "I'm also not sure how much of the description is literal and how much is figurative...." (of our walk in Christ!?)

I think most times we see the scriptures in a very carnal way (fleshly) instead of 'by the Spirit'.









EFDD31A9-1497-503D-0DA6-27BB4C49ED53
1.02.28

 

[Tavita]

Great!!! We can rape, kill, murder, steal and still be Christians!

I'm sorry, but I'm not going to argue with you Preecher. I've already said what I want to say about it.

 

[razzelflabben]

sorry, deleted

 

[razzelflabben]

Thank you for your VERY loving defense of me in my absence razzelflabben!

Firstly can I say a few things to give you an understanding of where I'm coming from..

I don't believe in free will.
Jesus said we could do nothing of ourselves.
Until HE chooses us... we are dead in trespasses and sin.
We are DEAD spiritually.
How can a dead man who is devoid of spiritual life choose God?
It is ONLY by the faith OF Jesus Christ that we can be delivered, saved, set free... anything. We can do nothing of ourselves.

Christ dealt with sin on the cross... HE said "It is finished!"
The Church is too sin conscious... we must become more Christ conscious.

I believe that not ALL are chosen in THIS lifetime. ALL are redeemed but not ALL are saved in THIS lifetime. That's why I gave a quote from a very early Church Father who said that some are chosen now... the rest later.
God works in AGES.

There is not one scripture verse that says THIS LIFETIME is the only time we can be saved.

Anytime we read of the judgments of God we must realize they BEGIN at the House of God... NOT unbelievers!

We also must take into consideration that the Apostle Paul... who was to take the gospel to the nations... never once spoke about hell in his letters... why is that? If it is so important then why didn't he expound on it?

And you are thinking well when you say... "I'm also not sure how much of the description is literal and how much is figurative...." (of our walk in Christ!?)

I think most times we see the scriptures in a very carnal way (fleshly) instead of 'by the Spirit'.









EFDD31A9-1497-503D-0DA6-27BB4C49ED53
1.02.28

some of this seems directed at another but the part about literal and figurative hell seems directed to me, so let me address that part. Neither heaven or hell are talked about that much in scripture. Most of scripture is about today, living a righteous life before God. for that reason I also purpose to make my focus about how to live in the Spirit today, and let "heaven" be my hope.

That being said, heaven and hell are talked about in scripture and as such I believe without question that they are real places. What is unclear to me is how much of what is told to us is figurative and how much is literal. Take for example...hum, Rev. is a great example. There are things there that are described that we cannot understand, so the description is more one of X is to Y as Z is to A. We can't understand God, or comprehend the things of God in this lifetime. We see through a glass dimly if you want the biblical quote. So what would make us think that it is literal, for example the streets of gold, why not, we would see them as gold but they are really a more precious metal than gold but would resemble gold because in our earthly flesh the closest comparison would be gold? I have no doubt that hell exists and that it will be torture, what I am unclear on is whether the intent of scripture is a literal fire, or what is like man's understanding of fire.

I hope that makes sense.

BTW, your welcome

 

[razzelflabben]

Good question – thank you for your boldness
It really doesn’t work that way – heaven and hell. The idea of heaven being a place where the streets are gold is a selfish materialistic idea. Also the idea of hell where God would place a living being where there is no escape or no hope contradicts who God is as a creator. It is Gods will for all his people to achieve oneness with him – this is “heaven” what better way to serve God than to serve Gods people.
If one does not seek forgiveness through Christ – the punishment is something like an eye for an eye – what a great way to teach for someone who is not sorry – according to americanchristiansociety(com) I once believed this no matter what but I always struggled with it – one day I stopped letting my fear get in my way of knowing who God really is
Hope this helps and does not offend – that is not my goal here – thank you!

what of scripture? What of scriptures that talk about streets of gold and hell fire? Shall we just ignore them?