Why are there religious people?

[Colter]

I completely disagree, but that's a topic for another thread.

No, it's not the destruction of it. An increase in legal marriages cannot destroy the institution of legal marriage. The religious concept of marriage has nothing to do with this. Though I will agree that the increase in public opinion of same-sex marriage indicates an evolution of Christian morality, since many people equate legal marriage with Christian marriage.

I actually support gay marriage with a bit of amused skepticism. But the court did seem to indicate that we are asking that it be redefined not expanded.

 

[Cearbhall]

I actually support gay marriage with a bit of amused skepticism. But the court did seem to indicate that we are asking that it be redefined not expanded.

Yes, I was a bit surprised by the quote about wanting to change something that's looked the same for "thousands of years." Not very accurate at all, unless you're looking only at mainstream European history.

 

[TheBarrd]

I completely disagree, but that's a topic for another thread.

No, it's not the destruction of it. An increase in legal marriages cannot destroy the institution of legal marriage. The religious concept of marriage has nothing to do with this. Though I will agree that the increase in public opinion of same-sex marriage indicates an evolution of Christian morality, since many people equate legal marriage with Christian marriage.

I think fewer Christians would care about same sex marriage if gay folks would quit shoving it in everyone's face.
You want me not to care what other people do in their own bedroom, and I seriously don't. Do whatever you want to whoever you want with whatever bits of your own anatomy that you want, it is none of my business, and I would rather not know about it.
If you'd just keep it in your bedroom, that would be great. But no...we have to watch it being paraded down mainstreet, fapetesakes.
For decades, straight couples have been told that "public displays of affection" are inappropriate. We have been told things like "get a room!" when kisses become overly passionate. And rightly so. Sex, whether gay or straight, doesn't belong in public.
I don't really care who marries who, I truly do not. God doesn't issue marriage licenses, that is the business of the state. Having the license doesn't make you married in the eyes of God...nor does not having it make you not married. However, why would you do things like try to force a bakery that is clearly marked "Christian" to bake your wedding cake, for instance? Why would anyone want their wedding cake done by someone who had to be forced to do it? Or why would you insist that any organization clearly designated as being Christian serve you, when there are so many other places you can go to get whatever it is you want? For instance, who would really want a doctor to perform a procedure against his will?
I don't agree with gay marriage, and I certainly do not agree with indoctrinating other people's kids to think of gay as "normal" when it isn't.
However, I have no problem with you filing income tax together, or making final decisions for each other, or any of that. Just keep it at home, and we'll get along fine....

Now back to the regularly scheduled program...

 

[bhsmte]

I think fewer Christians would care about same sex marriage if gay folks would quit shoving it in everyone's face.

I am quite certain, many white people said the same thing about blacks in the 60's, when they were looking for equal rights and performing marches and being in the public eye.

When people are suppressed and not given equal rights, they are going to eventually get loud, it is human nature.

 

[Cearbhall]

I think fewer Christians would care about same sex marriage if gay folks would quit shoving it in everyone's face.

I see this rhetoric all the time, and I'll never understand it. Imagine for a moment that it were illegal for you to marry the person you love, but public opinion had the power to change that law. Would you not ask people to support your cause? I'm not sure what's even meant by the claim that they're "shoving it in people's faces." Pride parades? That's not marriage...

You want me not to care what other people do in their own bedroom, and I seriously don't. Do whatever you want to whoever you want with whatever bits of your own anatomy that you want, it is none of my business, and I would rather not know about it.

Marriage equality is a different issue that decriminalizing same-sex sexual activity (the latter was completed 12 years ago).

If you'd just keep it in your bedroom, that would be great. But no...we have to watch it being paraded down mainstreet, fapetesakes.

You do not have to go to a Pride parade, and Pride parades are not marriage.

 

[GrimKingGrim]

Odin is a false God like the FSM.

Don't insult my lord FSM by pairing him with that commoner.

But let's roll with that. What makes Odin false?

What makes FSM false?

 

[TheBarrd]

I am quite certain, many white people said the same thing about blacks in the 60's, when they were looking for equal rights and performing marches and being in the public eye.

When people are suppressed and not given equal rights, they are going to eventually get loud, it is human nature.

When you compare the fight for 'gay rights' to the age long battle that black people have fought to rise from slavery to equal citizens, you gravely insult an awful lot of good people.
When did anyone tell gay people that they could not use the same facilities as straight people? When were you forced to sit "at the back of the bus" or crowded into filthy ghettos? When were you denied an equal education?
it takes one heck of a lot of gall, imho, to even dare to make such a comparison.

You know, I was a teenager in the sixties...yep, I am an original sixties "Flower Child". I actually supported equal rights for black people, and still do. I also supported equal rights for women, and I still do.
Being black is perfectly normal and natural, as is being a woman.
Being gay is not. It is a perversion of the natural sex drive, just like pedophilia, and has no more business being strutted around in public than NAMBLA has.

 

[bhsmte]

When you compare the fight for 'gay rights' to the age long battle that black people have fought to rise from slavery to equal citizens, you gravely insult an awful lot of good people.
When did anyone tell gay people that they could not use the same facilities as straight people? When were you forced to sit "at the back of the bus" or crowded into filthy ghettos? When were you denied an equal education?
it takes one heck of a lot of gall, imho, to even dare to make such a comparison.

Gays have been turned away from being served at publically accommodating businesses and they could not legally marry in many states until recently.

So, the comparison is legitimate, if one has a desire to live in a country where people have equal rights and equal opportunity.

 

[Colter]

Don't insult my lord FSM by pairing him with that commoner.

But let's roll with that. What makes Odin false?

What makes FSM false?

The FSM is a creation of man intended to mock faith in the true God.

Odin was one of many Pagan God concepts that were a development within evolutionary religion. Evolutionary religion serves a purpose in that it paves the way for the reception of reveled religion. Such Gods are for the most part created in mans own image.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

We disagree on the proposition that Atheist join Christian forums as just a place to swap cake recipes or discus model airplane building.

I wouldn't just happen to join an Atheist forum for small talk.

I didn't join CF to discuss philosophy, at least not initially. I originally joined in 2007 to discuss my faith, then I became involved in discussions on politics and conspiracy theories, then I discovered the philosophy and science forums, and now I'm here. People participate on online forums for various reasons, and sometimes those reasons change over time, so why try to squeeze all those who identify as 'atheist' or 'agnostic' on CF into a box? There are Muslims and Buddhists on this site as well. Do you question their motivations for joining? Why should anyone's motivations be questioned if they openly identify their religious affiliation anyway? It's not as if we are feigning belief so as to join.

But even if you were right in saying that we are all here just to advance "godless ideals" (whatever that might mean), so what? Have a look at the Christian-Only sections of the site. There you'll find plenty of examples of Christians promoting their ideal version of Christianity and debating with those who disagree. Why aren't you suspicious of them? Or what of yourself? You are constantly posting quotations from the Urantia Book, so are you here only to promote the Book's values?

I don't think someone's mere presence on this site is enough to infer their reasons for being here. Even among Christians, the motivations are diverse. Some are here to discuss their faith and nothing else. Others are interested in political debate. Some are seeking help (or prayers) for a personal problem. Some may even be swapping cake recipes or discussing model airplane building. Does it even matter why they joined? They're here, now, having a conversation on a small corner of the internet. Tomorrow they may be elsewhere, on YouTube or reddit or StackOverflow or any of the other countless forums. If you spend all your time questioning why someone is here you're going to miss out on the conversation altogether, and that is, in my view, a considerable loss.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

When you compare the fight for 'gay rights' to the age long battle that black people have fought to rise from slavery to equal citizens, you gravely insult an awful lot of good people.
When did anyone tell gay people that they could not use the same facilities as straight people? When were you forced to sit "at the back of the bus" or crowded into filthy ghettos? When were you denied an equal education?
it takes one heck of a lot of gall, imho, to even dare to make such a comparison.

You know, I was a teenager in the sixties...yep, I am an original sixties "Flower Child". I actually supported equal rights for black people, and still do. I also supported equal rights for women, and I still do.
Being black is perfectly normal and natural, as is being a woman.
Being gay is not. It is a perversion of the natural sex drive, just like pedophilia, and has no more business being strutted around in public than NAMBLA has.

The very fact that you think that is why gay rights is "in your face" and why it will remain in your face. It's in your face because such bigotry is no longer acceptable, should never have been acceptable, and you should be called out on it. It's "in your face" because people who think like this are trying to deprive gay people of their rights and dignity, and you are either standing idly by or promoting their actions. It will remain "in your face" until your face is red with shame and you are ready to apologise.

 

[GrimKingGrim]

I actually support gay marriage with a bit of amused skepticism. But the court did seem to indicate that we are asking that it be redefined not expanded.

Neither. Marriage is just a legal binding between two families. Has been since its inception.

 

[GrimKingGrim]

When you compare the fight for 'gay rights' to the age long battle that black people have fought to rise from slavery to equal citizens, you gravely insult an awful lot of good people.

It's an accurate analogy. It doesn't insult me.

When did anyone tell gay people that they could not use the same facilities as straight people?

A LOT OF PEOPLE HAVE

When were you forced to sit "at the back of the bus" or crowded into filthy ghettos?

They're being denied rights to marry and that's a big problem. You may think it's small but it's not.

When were you denied an equal education?

When bullying comes down on people it tends to deny them rights.

it takes one heck of a lot of gall, imho, to even dare to make such a comparison.

No. It takes rational thought. The comparison isn't going to be 100% the same and it's asinine to expect it to be. But the core issues are the exact same: people are being denied rights because of who they are.

Being black is perfectly normal and natural, as is being a woman.
Being gay is not.

You're wronger than a Maine Coon believing it's a dog.

It is a perversion of the natural sex drive, just like pedophilia, and has no more business being strutted around in public than NAMBLA has.

Oh. You know something I don't. Tell me more how you came up with that astute observation.

 

[TheBarrd]

The very fact that you think that is why gay rights is "in your face" and why it will remain in your face. It's in your face because such bigotry is no longer acceptable, should never have been acceptable, and you should be called out on it. It's "in your face" because people who think like this are trying to deprive gay people of their rights and dignity, and you are either standing idly by or promoting their actions. It will remain "in your face" until your face is red with shame and you are ready to apologise.

Don't hold your breath.
As I say, I have no problem with gay marriage. The license doesn't really mean anything any more, anyway, it's just a "business contract".
I can't, for the life of me, figure out why anyone, gay or straight, would want to force a bakery, for instance, to bake a wedding cake against their will. C'mon, there are all kinds of businesses that will cater to your every whim...why target Christians and try to force them to accept what their religion tells them is unacceptable?
It's just childishness, really. Personally, I'd care more about my wedding guests than to serve them cake that someone had to be forced to bake for me.
Too many stories about waitresses spitting in people's food, I guess...and I know that it does happen, because, in my long and varied career, I have paid my dues as an underpaid, overworked waitress. Not that I personally ever did it...but I have been sorely tempted. I would dang sure not force a reluctant waitress to cook for me...or a reluctant doctor to care for me, or any other such thing. Not as long as there are those willing to serve my needs.

 

[GrimKingGrim]

The FSM is a creation of man intended to mock faith in the true God.

If this is true why are the planets in the shape of meatballs? Clearly a sign of his glorious creation.

And you have no proof of him being man's creation. Perhaps he's been around since the days of Kemet.

Odin was one of many Pagan God concepts that were a development within evolutionary religion.

lol What?

Evolutionary religion serves a purpose in that it paves the way for the reception of reveled religion. Such Gods are for the most part created in mans own image.

This is so disrespectful and condescending to history itself. And yet I hope you don't think Yahweh, a Jewish war god, is exempt from being categorized amongst Odin

 

[Colter]

I didn't join CF to discuss philosophy, at least not initially. I originally joined in 2007 to discuss my faith, then I became involved in discussions on politics and conspiracy theories, then I discovered the philosophy and science forums, and now I'm here. People participate on online forums for various reasons, and sometimes those reasons change over time, so why try to squeeze all those who identify as 'atheist' or 'agnostic' on CF into a box? There are Muslims and Buddhists on this site as well. Do you question their motivations for joining? Why should anyone's motivations be questioned if they openly identify their religious affiliation anyway? It's not as if we are feigning belief so as to join.

But even if you were right in saying that we are all here just to advance "godless ideals" (whatever that might mean), so what? Have a look at the Christian-Only sections of the site. There you'll find plenty of examples of Christians promoting their ideal version of Christianity and debating with those who disagree. Why aren't you suspicious of them? Or what of yourself? You are constantly posting quotations from the Urantia Book, so are you here only to promote the Book's values?

I don't think someone's mere presence on this site is enough to infer their reasons for being here. Even among Christians, the motivations are diverse. Some are here to discuss their faith and nothing else. Others are interested in political debate. Some are seeking help (or prayers) for a personal problem. Some may even be swapping cake recipes or discussing model airplane building. Does it even matter why they joined? They're here, now, having a conversation on a small corner of the internet. Tomorrow they may be elsewhere, on YouTube or reddit or StackOverflow or any of the other countless forums. If you spend all your time questioning why someone is here you're going to miss out on the conversation altogether, and that is, in my view, a considerable loss.

We were discussing the difference between nutral unbelief and the promotion of unbelief as a belief itself by Atheist, not that one can't do that here.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

Don't hold your breath.

There's always hope. You said you were a Flower Child, no? Perhaps it's time to truly flower.

As I say, I have no problem with gay marriage. The license doesn't really mean anything any more, anyway, it's just a "business contract".
I can't, for the life of me, figure out why anyone, gay or straight, would want to force a bakery, for instance, to bake a wedding cake against their will. C'mon, there are all kinds of businesses that will cater to your every whim...why target Christians and try to force them to accept what their religion tells them is unacceptable?
It's just childishness, really.

It's not childish for someone to expect to be treated like every other customer who enters that place of business. It's not childish to expect a business operating to members of the public to serve members of the public. It's not childish to expect businesses to operate within the law, including anti-discrimination law.

Personally, I'd care more about my wedding guests than to serve them cake that someone had to be forced to bake for me.
Too many stories about waitresses spitting in people's food, I guess...and I know that it does happen, because, in my long and varied career, I have paid my dues as an underpaid, overworked waitress. Not that I personally ever did it...but I have been sorely tempted. I would dang sure not force a reluctant waitress to cook for me...or a reluctant doctor to care for me, or any other such thing. Not as long as there are those willing to serve my needs.

You seem to be missing the point. Is it outrageous to expect to be treated like every other customer? Are you, a member of the public, forcing the business-owner to operate to members of the public?

 

[Colter]

If this is true why are the planets in the shape of meatballs? Clearly a sign of his glorious creation.

And you have no proof of him being man's creation. Perhaps he's been around since the days of Kemet.



lol What?



This is so disrespectful and condescending to history itself. And yet I hope you don't think Yahweh, a Jewish war god, is exempt from being categorized amongst Odin

Yahweh was one of many nature Gods of the Sini volcano, the Israelites adopted the name during their stay there for the God of Abraham. We don't really know what Gods name is.

If you can't figure out The FSM is a man made God that's your issue not mine.

 

[GrimKingGrim]

Don't hold your breath.
As I say, I have no problem with gay marriage. The license doesn't really mean anything any more, anyway, it's just a "business contract".

You care enough to say you don't support it.

I can't, for the life of me, figure out why anyone, gay or straight, would want to force a bakery, for instance, to bake a wedding cake against their will.

If I'm paying you money, you'd best serve me and check your bigotry at the door. My money is just as green. They're offering a service and are doing business with the state as a result with the acquisition of their business license. The state requires you to do business with anyone with money regardless of race, gender, creed, sexual orientation.

C'mon, there are all kinds of businesses that will cater to your every whim...why target Christians and try to force them to accept what their religion tells them is unacceptable?

Christian persecution complex here.

It's just childishness, really. Personally, I'd care more about my wedding guests than to serve them cake that someone had to be forced to bake for me.

They're paying you money. You have zero reason as to why their money is less acceptable than the next man.

Too many stories about waitresses spitting in people's food, I guess...and I know that it does happen, because, in my long and varied career, I have paid my dues as an underpaid, overworked waitress. Not that I personally ever did it...but I have been sorely tempted. I would dang sure not force a reluctant waitress to cook for me...or a reluctant doctor to care for me, or any other such thing. Not as long as there are those willing to serve my needs.

If you wanna keep your job, you're to do what you're paid to do. Or look for a new job.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

We were discussing the difference between nutral unbelief and the promotion of unbelief as a belief itself by Atheist, not that one can't do that here.

The problem seems to be that you think atheists should be neutral. This is more-or-less a polite way of telling us to "shut up". It's an attempt to exclude us from the discourse by equating the very act of participating as a violation of neutrality. There is no way for us to discuss religion 'neutrally', at least not in a manner consistent with your definition of 'neutrality', so we are necessarily not neutral, but so what? If we were 'neutral', per your definition, we wouldn't even be here and this conversation could not take place. Your attempt to elevate 'neutrality' as some sacred norm is a subtle gesture toward the door. If we take that exit, and only those who are 'neutral' remain, then it's you alone in the room. Even then, are you neutral?