Why are so many Christians against annihilation in hell when scripture supports it?

[Der Alte]

Paul warned his Jewish and non-Jewish followers about:
Titus 1:14 not giving heed to Jewish fables and commands of men, turning themselves away from the truth;
1 Timothy 1:4-7
Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: so do…

I have often heard that meaningless argument which does NOT answer anything. Jesus often criticized the Jews about their teaching If the Jewish teaching on hell was Jewish fables and commandments of men why didn't Jesus correct them?
…..According to three irrefutable Jewish sources; the Jewish Encyclopedia, Encyclopedia Judaica and the Talmud, quoted below, among the Jews in Israel before and during the time of Jesus there was a belief in a place of everlasting torment of the wicked and they called it both sheol and gehinnom.
…..There were different groups within Judaism; Sadducees, Pharisees, Essenes etc. and there were different beliefs about resurrection, hell etc. That there were other beliefs does not rebut, refute, change or disprove anything in this post.

Jewish Encyclopedia, Gehenna
The place where children were sacrificed to the god Moloch … in the "valley of the son of Hinnom," to the south of Jerusalem (Josh. xv. 8, passim; II Kings xxiii. 10; Jer. ii. 23; vii. 31-32; xix. 6, 13-14). … the valley was deemed to be accursed, and "Gehenna" therefore soon became a figurative equivalent for "hell." Hell, like paradise, was created by God (Sotah 22a);​

[Note, this is according to the ancient Jews, long before the Christian era, NOT supposed bias of Christian translators. DA]

(I)n general …sinners go to hell immediately after their death. The famous teacher Johanan b. Zakkai wept before his death because he did not know whether he would go to paradise or to hell (Ber. 28b). The pious go to paradise, and sinners to hell(B.M. 83b).
But as regards the heretics, etc., and Jeroboam, Nebat's son, hell shall pass away, but they shall not pass away" (R. H. 17a; comp. Shab. 33b). All that descend into Gehenna shall come up again, with the exception of three classes of men: those who have committed adultery, or shamed their neighbors, or vilified them (B. M. 58b).[/i]
… heretics and the Roman oppressors go to Gehenna, and the same fate awaits the Persians, the oppressors of the Babylonian Jews (Ber. 8b). When Nebuchadnezzar descended into hell, [ שׁאול /Sheol]] all its inhabitants were afraid that he was coming to rule over them (Shab. 149a; comp. Isa. xiv. 9-10). The Book of Enoch [x. 6, xci. 9, etal] also says that it is chiefly the heathen who are to be cast into the fiery pool on the Day of Judgment (x. 6, xci. 9, et al). "The Lord, the Almighty, will punish them on the Day of Judgment by putting fire and worms into their flesh, so that they cry out with pain unto all eternity" (Judith xvi. 17). The sinners in Gehenna will be filled with pain when God puts back the souls into the dead bodies on the Day of Judgment, according toIsa. xxxiii. 11 (Sanh. 108b).
Link: Jewish Encyclopedia Online
Note, scripture references are highlighted in blue.
= = = = = = = = = =
Encyclopedia Judaica:
Gehinnom (Heb. גֵּי בֶן־הִנֹּם, גֵּי בְנֵי הִנֹּם, גֵּיא בֶן־הִנֹּם, גֵּיא הִנֹּם; Gr. Γέεννα; "Valley of Ben-Hinnom, Valley of [the Son (s) of] Hinnom," Gehenna), a valley south of Jerusalem on one of the borders between the territories of Judah and Benjamin, between the Valley of *Rephaim and *En-Rogel (Josh. 15:8; 18:16). It is identified with Wadi er-Rababi.
…..During the time of the Monarchy, Gehinnom, at a place called Topheth, was the site of a cult which involved the burning of children (II Kings 23:10; Jer. 7:31; 32:35 et al.; ). Jeremiah repeatedly condemned this cult and predicted that on its account Topheth and the Valley of the Son of Hinnom would be called the Valley of the "Slaughter" (Jer. 19:5–6).
In Judaism the name Gehinnom is generally used as an appellation of the place of torment reserved for the wicked after death. The New Testament used the Greek form Gehenna in the same sense.
Gehinnom
= = = = = = = = = =
Talmud -Tractate Rosh Hashanah Chapter 1.
The school of Hillel says: . . . but as for Minim, [followers of Jesus] informers and disbelievers, who deny the Torah, or Resurrection, or separate themselves from the congregation, or who inspire their fellowmen with dread of them, or who sin and cause others to sin, as did Jeroboam the son of Nebat and his followers, they all descend to Gehenna, and are judged there from generation to generation, as it is said [Isa. lxvi. 24]: "And they shall go forth and look upon the carcases of the men who have transgressed against Me; for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched." Even when Gehenna will be destroyed, they will not be consumed, as it is written[Psalms, xlix. 15]: "And their forms wasteth away in the nether world," which the sages comment upon to mean that their forms shall endure even when the grave is no more. Concerning them Hannah says [I Sam. ii. 10]: "The adversaries of the Lord shall be broken to pieces."
Link: Tract Rosh Hashana: Chapter I.​

When Jesus taught e.g.,

• “Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:” Matthew 25:41
• "these shall go away into eternal punishment, Matthew 25:46"
• "the fire of hell where the fire is not quenched and the worm does not die, Mark 9:43-48"
• "cast into a fiery furnace where there will be wailing and gnashing of teeth,” Matthew 13:42, Matthew 13:50
• “But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.” Matthew 18:6
• “And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.” Matthew 7:23
• “woe unto that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! it had been good for that man if he had not been born. ” Matthew 26:24
• “But I say unto you, that it shall be more tolerable in that day for Sodom, than for that city.” Luke 10:12​

…..These teachings tacitly reaffirmed and sanctioned a then existing significant Jewish view of eternal hell, outlined above. In Matt. 18:6, 26:24 and Luk 10:12, see above, Jesus teaches that there is a punishment worse than death or nonexistence.
…..A punishment worse than death without mercy is also mentioned in Hebrews 10:28-31.

Heb 10:28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.​

…..Jesus is quoted as using the word death 17 times in the gospels, if He wanted to say eternal death in Matt 25:46, that is what He would have said but He didn’t, He said “eternal punishment.” The Sadducees did not believe in the resurrection, they knew that everybody died; rich, poor, young, old, good, bad, men, women, children, infants and knew that often it had nothing to do with punishment and was permanent. When Jesus taught “eternal punishment” they would not have understood it as merely death, it would have meant something worse to them.
…..Concerning “punishment” one early church father wrote,

“‘Then these reap no advantage from their punishment, as it seems: moreover, I would say that they are not punished unless they are conscious of the punishment.”
Justin Martyr [A.D. 110-165.] Dialogue with Trypho Chapter 4​

…..Jesus undoubtedly knew what the Jews, believed about hell. If the Jews were wrong, why didn’t Jesus tell them there was no hell, no eternal punishment etc? Why would Jesus teach “eternal punishment,” etc. to Jews who believed, "The Lord, the Almighty, will punish them on the Day of Judgment by putting fire and worms into their flesh, so that they cry out with pain unto all eternity," which would only encourage and reinforce their beliefs?

 

[Deade]

There were different groups within Judaism; Sadducees, Pharisees, Essenes etc. and there were different beliefs about resurrection, hell etc. That there were other beliefs does not rebut, refute, change or disprove anything in this post.

All this says is that ancient Jews were subject to wrong beliefs. Just like many early Christians. None of all the scriptures defined souls (or spirits) being tortured in flames. That is not death. Death is destruction, annihilation. You cease to be, you become ashes. You can twist the scriptures anyway you want but they still spell annihilation.

 

[Der Alte]

All this says is that ancient Jews were subject to wrong beliefs. Just like many early Christians. None of all the scriptures defined souls (or spirits) being tortured in flames. That is not death. Death is destruction, annihilation. You cease to be, you become ashes. You can twist the scriptures anyway you want but they still spell annihilation.

Thank you for ignoring my post and giving me your irrelevant, unsupported opinion. If the Jews of Jesus' day were wrong about hell why did Jesus teach virtually the same thing as I showed in my post? Jesus said "eternal punishment" not annihilation.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Jesus said "eternal punishment" not annihilation.

Please use His Own Words, not in English (at least quote Him) , to be better understood, or even to be understood correctly at all.... thanks !

 

[Dorothy Mae]

That's what baffles me about traditionalists who handwave this away when you bring up Genesis 3:22. The text here in the very beginning of the Bible almost could not be more clear in that Adam and Eve were actively prevented from being able to live forever once they had become sinful. So how, how on Earth could it possibly be that all humans thereafter are born with eternal souls that must live forever in heaven or hell and can never truly die, as most traditionalists believe? Where did we get this theology? .... Besides Plato 3000 years ago, I mean?

Jesus

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Same answer to the question: WHO is ABLE to DESTROY both body and soul ?

 

[Der Alte]

Please use His Own Words, not in English (at least quote Him) , to be better understood, or even to be understood correctly at all.... thanks !

I quoted Jesus' own words as translated in every English bible I am acquainted with. If you want to discuss the Greek I can do that too. I started learning to speak Greek the year of Sputnik one and studied both Biblical languages about 2 decades later. Here is the definition of kolasis the word translated "punishment" in Matt 25:46 from BDAG one of, if not, the most highly accredited Greek lexicons available. The ancient sources the translators consulted are highlighted in blue.

κόλασις, εως, ἡ (s. prec. three entries; ‘punishment, chastisement’ so Hippocr.+; Diod S 1, 77, 9; 4, 44, 3; Aelian, VH 7, 15; SIG2 680, 13; LXX; TestAbr, Test12Patr, ApcEsdr, ApcSed; AscIs 3:13; Philo, Leg. ad Gai. 7, Mos. 1, 96; Jos., Ant. 17, 164; SibOr 5, 388; Ar. [Milne 76, 43]; Just.)
① infliction of suffering or pain in chastisement, punishment so lit. κ. ὑπομένειν undergo punishment Ox 840, 6; δειναὶ κ. (4 Macc 8:9) MPol 2:4; ἡ ἐπίμονος κ. long-continued torture ibid. Of the martyrdom of Jesus (Orig., C. Cels. 1, 48, 95; 8, 43, 12) PtK 4 p. 15, 34. The smelling of the odor arising fr. sacrifices by polytheists ironically described as punishment, injury (s. κολάζω) Dg 2:9.
② transcendent retribution, punishment (ApcSed 4:1 κόλασις καὶ πῦρ ἐστιν ἡ παίδευσίς σου.—Diod S 3, 61, 5; 16, 61, 1; Epict. 3, 11, 1; Dio Chrys. 80 [30], 12; 2 Macc 4:38 al. in LXX; Philo, Spec. Leg. 1, 55; 2, 196; Jos., Ant. 1, 60 al.; Just.; Did., Gen., 115, 28; 158, 10) ApcPt 17:32; w. αἰκισμός 1 Cl 11:1. Of eternal punishment (w. θάνατος) Dg 9:2 (Diod S 8, 15, 1 κ. ἀθάνατος). Of hell: τόπος κολάσεως ApcPt 6:21 (Simplicius in Epict. p. 13, 1 εἰς ἐκεῖνον τὸν τόπον αἱ κολάσεως δεόμεναι ψυχαὶ καταπέμπονται); ἐν τῇ κ. ἐκείνῃ 10:25; ibid. ἐφορῶσαι τὴν κ. ἐκείνων (cp. ApcEsdr 5:10 p. 30, 2 Tdf. ἐν τῇ κ.). ἐκ τῆς κ. ApcPt Rainer (cp. ἐκ τὴν κ. ApcSed 8:12a; εἰς τὴν κ. 12b and TestAbr B 11 p. 116, 10 [Stone p. 80]). ἀπέρχεσθαι εἰς κ. αἰώνιον go away into eternal punishment Mt 25:46 (οἱ τῆς κ. ἄξιοι ἀπελεύσονται εἰς αὐτήν Iren. 2, 33, 5 [Harv. I 380, 8]; κ. αἰώνιον as TestAbr A 11 p. 90, 7f [Stone p. 28]; TestReub 5:5; TestGad 7:5; Just., A I, 8, 4; D. 117, 3; Celsus 8, 48; pl. Theoph. Ant. 1, 14 [p. 90, 13]). ῥύεσθαι ἐκ τῆς αἰωνίου κ. rescue fr. eternal punishment 2 Cl 6:7. τὴν αἰώνιον κ. ἐξαγοράζεσθαι buy one’s freedom fr. eternal pun. MPol 2:3 v.l. κακαὶ κ. τοῦ διαβόλου IRo 5:3. κ. τινος punishment for someth. (Ezk 14:3, 7; 18:30; Philo, Fuga 65 ἁμαρτημάτων κ.) ἔχειν κόλασίν τινα τῆς πονηρίας αὐτοῦ Hs 9, 18, 1. ἀναπαύστως ἕξουσιν τὴν κ. they will suffer unending punishment ApcPt Bodl. 9–12. ὁ φόβος κόλασιν ἔχει fear has to do with punishment 1J 4:18 (cp. Philo, In Flacc. 96 φόβος κολάσεως).—M-M. TW.
Arndt, W., Danker, F. W., & Bauer, W. (2000). A Greek-English lexicon of the New Testament and other early Christian literature (3rd ed., p. 555). Chicago: University of Chicago Press.​

 

[SarahsKnight]

Jesus

Then please explain to me what Jesus meant by "can destroy both soul and body in hell" (Matthew 10:28) in the gospels, if the soul is in fact indestructible and must live forever in conscious emotional and/or physical pain as traditionalists believe? Please explain what Jesus meant by "shall not see life" (John 3:36) if we ALL have eternal life in heaven OR hell as tradition keeps shamefully spouting from the pulpit in 90% of Christian churches?

 

[Der Alte]

Then please explain to me what Jesus meant by "can destroy both soul and body in hell" (Matthew 10:28) in the gospels, if the soul is in fact indestructible and must live forever in conscious emotional and/or physical pain as traditionalists believe? Please explain what Jesus meant by "shall not see life" (John 3:36) if we ALL have eternal life in heaven OR hell as tradition keeps shamefully spouting from the pulpit in 90% of Christian churches?

What God created He can surely destroy but I do not know of even one verse in the entire Bible which states that God actually has or intends to destroy even one soul.
…..In Isa 14 there is a long passage about the king of Babylon dying, according to many the dead know nothing. They are supposedly annihilated, destroyed, pfft, gone! But God, Himself, speaking, these dead people in שאול/sheol, know something, they move, meet the dead coming to sheol, stir up, raise up, speak and say, etc.

Isa 14:9-11 (KJV)
9) Hell [שאול ] from beneath is moved for thee to meet thee at thy coming: it stirreth up the dead for thee, even all the chief ones of the earth; it hath raised up from their thrones all the kings of the nations.
10) All they shall speak and say unto thee, Art thou also become weak as we? art thou become like unto us?
11) Thy pomp is brought down to the grave, [שאול] and the noise of thy viols: the worm is spread under thee, and the worms cover thee.
[ . . . ]
22) For I will rise up against them, saith the LORD of hosts, and cut off from Babylon the name, and remnant, and son, and nephew, saith the LORD.​

In this passage God, himself is speaking, and I see a whole lot of shaking going on, moving, rising up, and speaking in . These dead people seem to know something, about something. We know that verses 11 through 14 describe actual historical events, the death of Nebuchadnezzar, king of Babylon.
…..Some will argue that this passage is figurative because fir trees don’t literally rejoice, vs. 8. They will argue that the passage must be figurative since God told Israel “take up this proverb against the king of Babylon.” vs. 4. The occurrence of one figurative expression in a passage does not prove that anything else in the passage is figurative.
…..The Hebrew word םשל/mashal translated “proverb” does not necessarily mean something is fictional. For example, Israel did not become fictional when God made them a mashal/proverb in 2 Chronicles 7:20, Psalms 44:14, and Jeremiah 24:9.…..
Jewish Encyclopedia-Gehenna
“When Nebuchadnezzar descended into hell, all its inhabitants were afraid that he was coming to rule over them (Shab. 149a; comp. Isa. xiv. 9-10).”
GEHENNA - JewishEncyclopedia.com

The Jews considered this passage to be factual.​

…..Here is another passage where God, Himself, is speaking and people who are dead in sheol, speaking, being ashamed, comforted, etc.

Ezek 32:18-22, 30-31 (KJV)
18) Son of man, [Ezekiel] wail for the multitude of Egypt, and cast them down, even her, and the daughters of the famous nations, unto the nether parts of the earth, with them that go down into the pit.
19) Whom dost thou pass in beauty? go down, and be thou laid with the uncircumcised.
20) They shall fall in the midst of them that are slain by the sword: she is delivered to the sword: draw her and all her multitudes.
21) The strong among the mighty shall speak to him out of the midst of hell [שאול] with them that help him: they are gone down, they lie uncircumcised, slain by the sword.
22) Asshur is there and all her company: his graves are about him: all of them slain, fallen by the sword::[ . . . ]
Eze 32:30-31
(30) There be the princes of the north, all of them, and all the Zidonians, which are gone down with the slain; with their terror they are ashamed of their might; and they lie uncircumcised with them that be slain by the sword, and bear their shame with them that go down to the pit.
(31) Pharaoh shall see them, and shall be comforted over all his multitude, even Pharaoh and all his army slain by the sword, saith the Lord GOD.​

Jesus speaking, in the NT a dead man in Hades had eyes, was in torment, saw Abraham, “cried and said,” asked for water, begged Abraham, etc.

Luk 16:22-28
(22) And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
(23) And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
(24) And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
(25) But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
(26) And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.
(27) Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house:
(28) For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.​

Every early church father who quoted or referred the story of Lazarus and the rich man considered it to be factual.

​

 

[SarahsKnight]

Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: so do…

Oh, we gave heed to the grandest of fables in assimilating Plato's philosophical teachings and Dante's Inferno into our mainstream Christian churches, all right, and it definitely did NOT result in godly edification of anyone or anything. Rather, all it produced was constant obsessive compulsive fear and anxiety in hundreds of people throughout the ages (some of whom you can see right here at CF in threads pleading for help and assurance in their misery over the thought of hell), shameful stage acts enthusiastically shown before seeking unbelievers in churches every Halloween in the form of "Hell Plays" and "Hell Houses", and stories of parents driven to MURDER THEIR OWN SMALL CHILDREN in hope that they will die too young to be held accountable by God and get a free pass to heaven (such that this is the best chance to keep the child from ending up "going to hell").

 

[Der Alte]

Oh, we gave heed to the grandest of fables in assimilating Plato's philosophical teachings and Dante's Inferno into our mainstream Christian churches, all right, and it definitely did NOT result in godly edification of anyone or anything. Rather, all it produced was constant obsessive compulsive fear and anxiety in hundreds of people throughout the ages (some of whom you can see right here at CF in threads pleading for help and assurance in their misery over the thought of hell), shameful stage acts enthusiastically shown before seeking unbelievers in churches every Halloween in the form of "Hell Plays" and "Hell Houses", and stories of parents driven to MURDER THEIR OWN SMALL CHILDREN in hope that they will die too young to be held accountable by God and get a free pass to heaven (such that this is the best chance to keep the child from ending up "going to hell").

Nonsense. Ancient civilizations were offering their children to their pagan idols long before Plato or Dante. There was a belief in hell in Israel before and during the time of Jesus and nothing Jesus taught about the afterlife contradicted the Jewish belief.

 

[mmksparbud]

Mal 4:3 And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the LORD of hosts.

 

[SarahsKnight]

Mal 4:3 And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the LORD of hosts.

But ... but ....?! That can't really mean ashes, can it? The wicked have to be alive for all eternity for us to enjoy their pain! Fiery death to ash isn't good enough! I as a righteous believer in Christ demand suffering for my enemies!

 

[Deade]

Oh, we gave heed to the grandest of fables in assimilating Plato's philosophical teachings and Dante's Inferno into our mainstream Christian churches, all right, and it definitely did NOT result in godly edification of anyone or anything. Rather, all it produced was constant obsessive compulsive fear and anxiety in hundreds of people throughout the ages (some of whom you can see right here at CF in threads pleading for help and assurance in their misery over the thought of hell), shameful stage acts enthusiastically shown before seeking unbelievers in churches every Halloween in the form of "Hell Plays" and "Hell Houses", and stories of parents driven to MURDER THEIR OWN SMALL CHILDREN in hope that they will die too young to be held accountable by God and get a free pass to heaven (such that this is the best chance to keep the child from ending up "going to hell").

Do not fret over their redefinition of death. This is the same lie Satan told Eve: "Ye shall not surely die" (Gen. 3:3). The punishment is everlasting, or final, not taking forever to implement: Matt. 25:46 "And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal."

God is not the sadist most make Him out to be. Death is destruction, snuffs-ville. You cease to be anything. Romans 6:23 says the wages of sin is death, not everlasting life in fire.

 

[Der Alte]

But ... but ....?! That can't really mean ashes, can it? The wicked have to be alive for all eternity for us to enjoy their pain! Fiery death to ash isn't good enough! I as a righteous believer in Christ demand suffering for my enemies!

Mal 4:3 And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the LORD of hosts.​

Do you honestly think this is talking about the dead after the judgement? Will the ashes of the dead be scattered around paradise where the righteous can tread on them through eternity or is this talking about what happens on one day in this life as the verse clearly says "in the day that I do this?" Vs. 1 also mentions a cedrtain day, twice.. If you are going to demand something from scripture I suggest you read it in context. And what makes you think that the righteous will be enjoying what happens to the unrighteous?

 

[Der Alte]

Do not fret over their redefinition of death. This is the same lie Satan told Eve: "Ye shall not surely die" (Gen. 3:3). The punishment is everlasting, or final, not taking forever to implement: Matt. 25:46 "And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal."
God is not the sadist most make Him out to be. Death is destruction, snuffs-ville. You cease to be anything. Romans 6:23 says the wages of sin is death, not everlasting life in fire.

Nonsense. If "eternal life" means life that is everlasting then "everlasting punishment" means exactly that, punishment that endures for ever. Not death which lasts only a nanosecond. I have already posted the definition of the word kolasis, translated punishment, in Matt 25;46. which everyone has ignored.
…..Jesus is quoted as using the word death 17 times in the gospels, if He wanted to say eternal death in Matt 25:46, that is what He would have said but He didn’t, He said “eternal punishment.” The Sadducees did not believe in the resurrection, they knew that everybody died; rich, poor, young, old, good, bad, men, women, children, infants and knew that it had nothing to do with punishment and was permanent. When Jesus taught “eternal punishment” they would not have understood it as merely death, it would have meant something worse to them.
…..Concerning “punishment” one early church father wrote,

“‘Then these reap no advantage from their punishment, as it seems: moreover, I would say that they are not punished unless they are conscious of the punishment.” Justin Martyr [A.D. 110-165.] Dialogue with Trypho Chapter 4​

 

[Deade]

Nonsense. If "eternal life" means life that is everlasting then "everlasting punishment" means exactly that, punishment that endures for ever. Not death which lasts only a nanosecond. I have already posted the definition of the word kolasis, translated punishment, in Matt 25;46. which everyone has ignored.
…..Jesus is quoted as using the word death 17 times in the gospels, if He wanted to say eternal death in Matt 25:46, that is what He would have said but He didn’t, He said “eternal punishment.” The Sadducees did not believe in the resurrection, they knew that everybody died; rich, poor, young, old, good, bad, men, women, children, infants and knew that it had nothing to do with punishment and was permanent. When Jesus taught “eternal punishment” they would not have understood it as merely death, it would have meant something worse to them.
…..Concerning “punishment” one early church father wrote,

“‘Then these reap no advantage from their punishment, as it seems: moreover, I would say that they are not punished unless they are conscious of the punishment.” Justin Martyr [A.D. 110-165.] Dialogue with Trypho Chapter 4​

And you are okay with eternal torture in flames? You need to repent of that spirit. Broad is the way to destruction, right? Christ said it (see Matt. 7:13). That means your God is all for punishing even the deceived, which most people are (see Rev. 12:9).

 

[Der Alte]

And you are okay with eternal torture in flames? You need to repent of that spirit. Broad is the way to destruction, right? Christ said it (see Matt. 7:13). That means your God is all for punishing even the deceived, which most people are (see Rev. 12:9).

Rubbish! I am OK with what the word of God says. But I don't try to make it say what it does not say. Unlike some folks, who only know their out-of-context proof texts I have actually read through the Bible and I have taught through it a few times as well.
Revelation 12;9 does NOT say those who have been deceived are punished. God does not punish people for what they do not know. Children, infants the mentally handicapped etc.

Romans 4:15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.
Romans 5:13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law. ​

How do you feel about God killing millions of people with fire and drowning; old, young men, women, children, infants? How do you feel about God commanding the Israelites to go into the Canaanites cities and kill every living thing; old, young men, women, children, infants? Does that meet with your sense of justice?

 

[Deade]

Rubbish! I am OK with what the word of God says. But I don't try to make it say what it does not say. Unlike some folks, who only know their out-of-context proof texts I have actually read through the Bible and I have taught through it a few times as well.
Revelation 12;9 does NOT say those who have been deceived are punished. God does not punish people for what they do not know. Children, infants the mentally handicapped etc.

Romans 4:15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.
Romans 5:13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law. ​

How do you feel about God killing millions of people with fire and drowning; old, young men, women, children, infants? How do you feel about God commanding the Israelites to go into the Canaanites cities and kill every living thing; old, young men, women, children, infants? Does that meet with your sense of justice?

Whoa! You are speaking of this first life--which is an overburdening vanity. Please read Ecclesiastes 1 & 2. Unless we are the small, peculiar people God calls in this life, it would be better if we weren't even born. The real bad for mankind, is the second death.

 

[FineLinen]

Whoa! You are speaking of this first life--which is an overburdening vanity. Please read Ecclesiastes 1 & 2. Unless we are the small, peculiar people God calls in this life, it would be better if we weren't even born. The real bad for mankind, is the second death.

Dear Deade:There are exactly one group of individuals who are not "hurt" by the second death (AKA The Lake of Fire). Do you know who these believers in Jesus Christ are?

Secondly: can you tell us the difference between our God the consuming Fire, where ALL will dwell for the ages, & the Lake of theion and theioo?

Thirdly: in Who is the Lake of theion and theioo rooted?

Hurt= adikeo