Why Are Masks Triggering Conflict and Rage?

[Nithavela]

But it was Obama’s plan and play book. Trump’s plan is better.

Well, obviously. I'm sure he'll reveal it soon, just like his replacement for the ACA.

 

[Aryeh Jay]

Well, obviously. I'm sure he'll reveal it soon, just like his replacement for the ACA.

It's going to be HUGE!!!

 

[JohnDB]

I don't think the difference between 330 million people and 82 million people is that big that any comparision should be automatically discarded on that basis alone.

Also.. you were prepared for something of this magnitude. You had a pandemic response team and a brilliant playbook. And then Trump decided to trash both to safe a couple bucks.

You aren't supposed to make my points for me...(just saying)
It almost comes across as sarcasm.

82 million vx 330 million....that's a 1:4 ratio.

Any epidemiology scientist can tell you that it's a huge huge difference. Or any statistician for that matter.
And American is quite diverse with at least as many population groups and cultural norms if not more...and geography and topography variations as well.

We have 50 states and other territories that each have their own unique governing bodies responsible for their own population. The President can't and shouldn't make a unilateral decision for everyone. He can offer suggestions but as in the case of Oregon you can see that they aren't exactly followed and often go ignored.

This is America...not Europe. Whole nother critter. And looking at things objectively they have done fairly well. My state of TN has a problem with it's governor as we have no clue if he is going to reverse himself today or tomorrow from earlier stated positions.

 

[Nithavela]

You aren't supposed to make my points for me...(just saying)
It almost comes across as sarcasm.

82 million vx 330 million....that's a 1:4 ratio.

Any epidemiology scientist can tell you that it's a huge huge difference. Or any statistician for that matter.

Then I'm sure you won't have any problem finding a lot of scientists stating that.

 

[JohnDB]

Then I'm sure you won't have any problem finding a lot of scientists stating that.

I take it that you don't know any scientists...lol

Every one of them are as positive of their own opinions as those in the theological forums and are even more sure that everyone else is wrong.

It's America and not France where we kill our Kings. We give our leaders their own newspaper here. It started with Benjamin Franklin and hasn't stopped since.

 

[Nithavela]

I take it that you don't know any scientists...lol

Every one of them are as positive of their own opinions as those in the theological forums and are even more sure that everyone else is wrong.

You made a claim, it's your job to support it.

 

[JohnDB]

You made a claim, it's your job to support it.

I did...with prima Facia arguments that you then inadvertently supported...

 

[Nithavela]

I did...with prima Facia arguments that you then inadvertently supported...

1: It's prima facie, not prima facia.
2: You obviously not only do not know how it's written, but also what it means.

It would have been Prima Facie if you had presented evidence sufficient to make a good case for your argument unless rebutted. You didn't provide any evidence that a country of 330 million people is so significantly bigger than a country of 82 million people that they can't be compared in their efficiency of disease implementation.

I'm of course aware of the scaling fallacy, but I'm not convinced that a ratio of 1:4 is already big enough in this case to apply it.

 

[jardiniere]

People with normal pulmonary function do not have a medical problem with wearing a mask.

If you have compromised pulmonary function, you need to see a doc (and I would recommend telehealth at this point). You need to be extra careful, and you need those around you to wear a mask to help protect you. You would be in the category of people relying on others to help protect you. And if that is the case, I am sorry, as way too many people have no interest in helping their fellow man.

I've got 70% lung function, my mother 30%. Both of us have no problems with masks. I suspect there is an element of panic involved in some people wearing a mask, because it feels really strange to have a fabric covering on nose and mouth. Thousands and thousands of Muslim women cover nose and mouth on a daily basis, and I suspect they likely don't have a panic issue because of familiarity with the sensation.

 

[cow451]

Well, obviously. I'm sure he'll reveal it soon, just like his replacement for the ACA.

Tomorrow is Wednesday.

 

[Aryeh Jay]

Tomorrow is Wednesday.

And we all know that Wednesday is the day that is filled with surprises... Nobody knows what's going to happen...

 

[cow451]

And we all know that Wednesday is the day that is filled with surprises... Nobody knows what's going to happen...

It will be shocking. Many minds will explode.

 

[Nithavela]

It will be shocking. Many minds will explode.

Mine already has.

 

[cow451]

Mine already has.

That explains that thick green stuff you were blowing into your mask....

 

[jollybear]

People can spread the disease without showing symptoms. And since we don't have adequate testing resources, there's no way to know who has the disease. Given 160,000+ Americans have died from this in just a few months, being a bit cautious is not wasting my time.

I dont even believe those numbers are accurate either. But even if they wer, I'd still not wear a mask. But due to overflated numbers is all the more reason to resist.

Not true. The fact that you don't like my response doesn't mean I didn't respond.

Responding and addressing/refuting are not the same thing.

Yeah, you not accepting a random opinion with no evidence is because it is off topic or whatever the excuse was. But if I do the exact same thing, it is because I'm stubborn. Quite an interesting double standard you've managed to convince yourself of here.

There is no double standard, you did not address my point. Its as simple as that.

So the number where you start to care is about 1.5 million people. OK, fair enough that you're not bothered by anything less than that. You do realize other people might have a slightly lower threshold.

Let me be clear so theres no misunderstanding. Every life matters, but you cannot sacrifice the whole world to save one life. Thats not intelligent.

0. I care about people's freedom as well, we just differ on the amount of maturity and responsibility that goes along with the privilege of having those freedoms.

Ok, mayby i have misjudged you and perhaps the others as well. Perhaps you do care about others freedoms, but you care more about peoples health/lives then there freedoms.

Me, I see it as without freedoms, life and health won't matter much since youl be living in misery. Like the saying goes, walking on egg shells.

I guess asserting that is easier than actually addressing it.


Sure, easy enough to address. Your assertion here is a falsehood and shows a complete misunderstanding about the risks associated with the disease.

Thats why if others fear the virus THEY (i.e, not me) dont have to take the risks. They can take the precautions.

Ok, hold on folks, im gonna read your articles you gave me thats supposedly the grand proof. I'll respond soon.

 

[jollybear]

https://www.advisory.com/daily-briefing/2020/07/30/heart-studies

From ‘brain fog’ to heart damage, COVID-19’s lingering problems alarm scientists | Science | AAAS

There are more studies...
Lingering heart trouble is not a joke even though these people had mild cases...

https://www.iamexpat.de/expat-info/...heart-damage-remains-majority-corona-patients



I'm german. I have plenty of freedom because my nations government didn't botch their response to a pandemic.

Okay.. it did botch it, but in a very mild way when compared to the USA.

Alright, I read all three articles. I'm not gonna quote key parts from all 3, but I'll quote one from one.

"Studies have shown that the novel coronavirus is associated with heart damage and cardiac problems in SOME patients, and research published Monday in JAMA Cardiology suggest those issues COULD last for months after patients recover from Covid-19—sparking concern among cardiologists that the heart complications COULD be permanent."

Ok, SOME patients.

And COULD. Some is not all and could is not gaurenteed. In otherwords all 3 of these articles are loaded with Presumptions. No proof.

 

[Nithavela]

Alright, I read all three articles. I'm not gonna quote key parts from all 3, but I'll quote one from one.

"Studies have shown that the novel coronavirus is associated with heart damage and cardiac problems in SOME patients, and research published Monday in JAMA Cardiology suggest those issues COULD last for months after patients recover from Covid-19—sparking concern among cardiologists that the heart complications COULD be permanent."

Ok, SOME patients.

And COULD. Some is not all and could is not gaurenteed. In otherwords all 3 of these articles are loaded with Presumptions. No proof.

So you ignore the numbers, latch on to one fuzzy word and throw out the the entire thing.

I've had enough of this.

 

[KCfromNC]

I dont even believe those numbers are accurate either.

What numbers are accurate, and how do you know?

But even if they wer, I'd still not wear a mask. But due to overflated numbers is all the more reason to resist.

So if the facts are wrong, you're right. But even if they facts were different, you'd still be right.

Seems that the facts have little to do with the decision here. No surprise, really.

Responding and addressing/refuting are not the same thing.

There is no double standard, you did not address my point. Its as simple as that.

Simply asserting the same thing over and over isn't all that convincing.

Let me be clear so theres no misunderstanding. Every life matters, but you cannot sacrifice the whole world to save one life. Thats not intelligent.

Wearing a mask in public is not sacrificing the world.

Me, I see it as without freedoms, life and health won't matter much since youl be living in misery.

On the other hand, dead people don't really get to enjoy the freedoms they once had.

Thats why if others fear the virus THEY (i.e, not me) dont have to take the risks. They can take the precautions.

Yes, for example by using their freedom to enact laws which prevent people put them at risk from being in public. Seems simple enough.

 

[JohnDB]

Every year an estimated 290,000 to 650,000 people die in the world due to complications from seasonal influenza (flu) viruses. This figure corresponds to 795 to 1,781 deaths per day due to the seasonal flu.

Now let's look at Covid-19 deaths....

746,000 in 5 months so far this year...
6,500+ yesterday and it really wasn't a special day...

 

[Mayzoo]

The new quote for the day equals the state of America today......

"Give me freedom, or kill someone else"

As opposed to:

"Give me freedom, or give me death." Patrick Henry