Why an eternal hell? (2)

[dollarsbill]

I see the "eternal fire" as metaphor for something infinitely worse. When second death occurs, one seperated from one's body again, therefore they are not physical in hell, therefore no eternal fire, fire is physical, so its a metaphor for something waaaaaaaaay worse.

What can be worse that eternity in fire?

 

[Black36]

What can be worse that eternity in fire?

Eternal and complete separation from God. Your scenario focuses on physical pain, not spiritual pain, which is worse in my view. The physical pain Christ felt on the cross was a cake walk compared to the spiritual pain felt on the cross.

 

[dollarsbill]

\Your scenario focuses on physical pain, not spiritual pain, which is worse in my view.

1 Corinthians 15:44 (NASB)
44 it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body.

 

[Black36]

1 Corinthians 15:44 (NASB)
44 it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body.

Correct. But where did you get the idea the scenario works in reverse in the same absolute sense? This is true, however, it does not necessarily follow that the presence of a spiritual body implies the presence of a natural body.

 

[holo]

God being omnipotent and omniscient can indeed proclaim the sentence of eternal punishment in Hell. Who will correct Him?

He would have to correct Himself, or at the very least wipe out of the bible all those verses saying He is righteous and fair, not to mention gracious.

 

[holo]

I see it different. There are different degrees of wrongness for the same crime, due to who the crime was committed against. For example:

Shooting a homeless person
Shooting a cop
Shooting the President

A crime committed against a finite being deserves a finite punishment.
A crime committed against an infinite being deserves an infinite punishment.

Yes, that's how it is in the world. A homeless person just isn't worth as much as the president. It's perverted and sickening.

A finite crime deserves finite punishment.
An infinite crime, should it exist, deserves infinite punishment.

I really don't see the logic (or biblical evidence) in that God, the ultimate Righteous Judge, should hand out the ultimately unfair judgment.

Some say we ALL are infinite beings. If so, then why aren't crimes against us unforgivable? And again, all sin has already been laid on Christ, and since He is not in hell right now then the punishment for offending an infinite God is not infinite torment.

 

[dollarsbill]

Eternal and complete separation from God. Your scenario focuses on physical pain, not spiritual pain, which is worse in my view. The physical pain Christ felt on the cross was a cake walk compared to the spiritual pain felt on the cross.

Sounds like you've never been burned.

 

[dollarsbill]

Correct. But where did you get the idea the scenario works in reverse in the same absolute sense? This is true, however, it does not necessarily follow that the presence of a spiritual body implies the presence of a natural body.

What?

 

[dollarsbill]

He would have to correct Himself, or at the very least wipe out of the bible all those verses saying He is righteous and fair, not to mention gracious.

Again!!! Your unScriptural opinion. Very unScriptural.

 

[holo]

that theory fails even in your own view, the wages of sin is death. Do we deserve to be killed for stealing a paper clip? not really in your opinion, but that thats how God is. Right?

My point is that no, that's not how God is. Many people actually do believe that if you do steal a paperclip and then die, God is going to torment you forever and ever, even though so many passages say that God will judge righteously.

We are all sinners by birth. As sinners it's our lot to get born and die, I don't think the paperclip is what makes the difference. Jesus is the saviour of ALL, especially those who believe - which leads me to suspect that everybody will eventually be saved (if so through fire). I don't have a firm theology in place about that, though. But the bible does say that ALL things are created in, through and for Him and that EVERY knee shall bow and that ALL shall be reconciled and that even as all died because of Adam, how much MORE SO shall Christ give LIFE to ALL.

In the bible are lot of accounts of God not letting mankind, especially His chosen nation Israel, getting away with whatever evil they're up to. Yet, so many christians believe that He did allow ONE MAN, Adam, to mess up EVRYTHING for EVERY human ever after. And that even if God could get His way with Israel and a few select believers, He's simply unable to undo what Adam did, for most of us.

 

[holo]

Who are you to judge God?

Who is God to judge Hitler if God Himself is going to torture those six million men, women and children infinitely longer than anything they experienced in the death camps?

 

[holo]

same thing, and you can't prove otherwise.

What do you mean? That death and dying is the same thing?

 

[holo]

Death does not mean 'cease to exist'. That is TOTAL myth.

So what does it mean?

 

[holo]

yeah the greek word for soul has two definitions, one for life, and one non physical aspect different from the body.

here is just one of many examples of lexicons offering this:

H2416
Thayer:
1) breath
1a) the breath of life
1a1) the vital force which animates the body and shows itself in breathing
1a1a) of animals
1a12) of men
1b) life
1c) that in which there is life
1c1) a living being, a living soul
2) the soul
2a) the seat of the feelings, desires, affections, aversions (our heart, soul etc.)
2b) the (human) soul in so far as it is constituted that by the right use of the aids offered it by God it can attain its highest end and secure eternal blessedness, the soul regarded as a moral being designed for everlasting life
2c) the soul as an essence which differs from the body and is not dissolved by death (distinguished from other parts of the body)

Alright, but the question is how the authors of the bible understand and use the term. That I don't know.

 

[dollarsbill]

Who is God to judge Hitler if God Himself is going to torture those six million men, women and children infinitely longer than anything they experienced in the death camps?

He is sovereign and omnipotent and righteous. Hitler is none of these. Are you?

 

[dollarsbill]

So what does it mean?

You don't know?

 

[holo]

Again!!! Your unScriptural opinion. Very unScriptural.

But it's simple, really. Does the bible say God will judge fairly? Yes.
Is it possible that eternal torment is fair for any human that have lived for abour 80 years? No.

 

[holo]

He is sovereign and omnipotent and righteous. Hitler is none of these. Are you?

So if Hitler was ominpotent and righteous, he would have been justified in killing about six million people in the death camps?

 

[dollarsbill]

But it's simple, really. Does the bible say God will judge fairly? Yes.
Is it possible that eternal torment is fair for any human that have lived for abour 80 years? No.

You keep offering your opinion. It does not trump God's word.

 

[holo]

You don't know?

If "die" doesn't mean the absence of life, then I don't know what it means. If it actually means "eternal life in hell," for example, I have no idea why the bible calls it death.