Why an eternal hell? (2)

[holo]

It's about punishment in the fire my friend.

Matthew 5:22 (NKJV)
22 But whoever says, 'You fool!' shall be in danger of hell fire.

Matthew 5:22 (ASV)
22 ; and whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of the hell of fire.

Matthew 5:22 (AMP)
22 , and whoever says, You cursed fool! [You empty-headed idiot!] shall be liable to and unable to escape the hell (Gehenna) of fire.

Matthew 5:22 (BBE)
22 ; and whoever says, You foolish one, will be in danger of the hell of fire.

Matthew 5:22 (MontgomeryNT)
22 , while he who curses his brother shall be liable to the Gehenna of Fire.

Matthew 5:22 (Darby)
22 ; but whosoever shall say, Fool, shall be subject to the penalty of the hell of fire.

Matthew 5:22 (ESV)
22 ; and whoever says, ‘You fool!’ will be liable to the hell of fire.

Matthew 5:22 (GW)
22 Whoever calls another believer a fool will answer for it in hellfire.

Matthew 5:22 (NASB)
22 "; and whoever says, 'You fool,' shall be guilty enough to go into the fiery hell.

Matthew 5:22 (NIV)
22 But anyone who says, 'You fool!' will be in danger of the fire of hell.

Matthew 5:22 (NLT)
22 And if you curse someone, you are in danger of the fires of hell.

Matthew 5:22 (NRSV)
22 ; and if you say, 'You fool,' you will be liable to the hell of fire.

Matthew 5:22 (TLB)
22 And if you curse him, you are in danger of the fires of hell.

Matthew 5:22 (WesleyNT)
22 ; but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be liable to hell-fire.

Matthew 5:22 (WEY)
22 ; and that whoever says, 'You fool!' shall be liable to the Gehenna of Fire.

Matthew 5:22 (YLT)
22 , and whoever may say, Rebel! shall be in danger of the gehenna of the fire.

Even if a million english or norwegian or dutch bibles say hell, the original manuscripts say Gehenna. It's not any more complicated than that. Gehenna was known from old as a place where pagans sacrificed children, and in Jesus' day the Romans cremated bodies there, and it was basically a garbage dump.

 

[holo]

I don't know of even one English Bible that doesn't mention the 'eternal fire'. Punishment in fire is a clear NT doctrine.

The english bibles may mention what they like, the truth is to be found in the original manuscripts. In any case, eternal fire or punishment in fire does not equal eternal life in fire.

 

[FredVB]

The idea of eternal torment is so thinly supported in the scriptures, but people hang on to that doctrine for dear life. Why? Nobody will be torturer forever, God will judge FAIRLY. That's GOOD NEWS! It makes me want to preach the gospel, with a boldness I never had when I had to tell people that yeah, God loves you, but He also wants to torture you endlessly. No wonder I felt ashamed of the gospel, having to portray an infinitely unfair God who's not even able to save most of His creation because of one single sin in the history of man.

Now I LOVE God. Now I come to Him because He is GOOD, not because He'll torture me forever if I don't. Now I get to share the gospel boldly and freely and happily. Now I get to see all the good reasons for seeking a life with the Lord.

There is no torture, but there is day and night fire forever, this shows that is what is in store for souls, nothing suggests death of souls means their termination,other than modern secular understanding.

I also do not see any in a lake of fire burning forever, there may just be their being surrounded by a darkness with some correspondence to fire., whatever mysterious thing of the future that will be.

 

[dollarsbill]

You're still not answering my question. I'm not asking whether or not God is almighty, or if He can torture people if He chooses to.

I don't know how much clearer I can make it.

I'm asking how does it follow that if you're omnipotent and omniscious, that you're justified in torturing somebody infinitely?

And my answer was, I am not.

The reason I'm asking is because you seem to argue that the reason God can/will/wants to torment people eternally is because He is omnipotent.

The simple answer is in Scripture over and over. God is righteous, just and omnipotent. That's all that matters. If you want to call Him unrighteous for burning the wicked in Hell then I seriously hope you reconsider before you stand before Him on Judgment Day.

 

[dollarsbill]

Even if a million english or norwegian or dutch bibles say hell, the original manuscripts say Gehenna. It's not any more complicated than that. Gehenna was known from old as a place where pagans sacrificed children, and in Jesus' day the Romans cremated bodies there, and it was basically a garbage dump.

You missed the entire point. It's about punishment in fire. God clearly warned us. I read somewhere, "Belief of Hell is not a requirement for residency."

 

[dollarsbill]

The english bibles may mention what they like, the truth is to be found in the original manuscripts.

So you are saying you are more expert in the Bible languages than all of those who translated our English Bibles? What are your credentials?

In any case, eternal fire or punishment in fire does not equal eternal life in fire.

It does indeed.

Matthew 25 (NASB)
41 "Then He will also say to those on His left, 'Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels;
46 "These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."

 

[dollarsbill]

There is no torture, but there is day and night fire forever, this shows that is what is in d store for souls, nothing suggests death of souls means their termination,other than modern secular understanding.

Have you read Rev 14 and 20?

I also do not see any in a lake of fire burning forever, there may just be their being surrounded by a darkness with some correspondence to fire., whatever mysterious thing of the future that will be.

Matthew 18:8-9 (NASB)
8 "If your hand or your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it from you; it is better for you to enter life crippled or lame, than to have two hands or two feet and be cast into the eternal fire. 9 "If your eye causes you to stumble, pluck it out and throw it from you. It is better for you to enter life with one eye, than to have two eyes and be cast into the fiery hell.

Revelation 21:8 (NASB)
8 "But for the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and immoral persons and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death."

 

[FredVB]

Have you read Rev 14 and 20?

Yes, I have read all the Bible, many times. Christ also spoke of those under judgment being cast into darkness.

 

[dollarsbill]

Yes, I have read all the Bible, many times. Christ also spoke of those under judgment being cast into darkness.

There are many instances in the NT mentioning punishment in the 'eternal fire', Hell, Lake of Fire, torment in fire, etc.

 

[holo]

There is no torture, but there is day and night fire forever, this shows that is what is in store for souls, nothing suggests death of souls means their termination,other than modern secular understanding.

Are there bible verses saying that death doesn't mean the absence of life?

 

[holo]

I don't know how much clearer I can make it.

And my answer was, I am not.

The simple answer is in Scripture over and over. God is righteous, just and omnipotent. That's all that matters. If you want to call Him unrighteous for burning the wicked in Hell then I seriously hope you reconsider before you stand before Him on Judgment Day.

OK. If you claimed that, say, God would like to turn Jupiter into a giant bowl of chicken soup. I would ask you why. You would say "God is omnipotent." And I'd say yes, but how does omnipotence make it reasonable to do such a thing? "I told you, He is omnipotent!"

See my point? You're just repeating that God is omnipotent. I know He is. I want to know how that omnipotence makes is fair/righteous/reasonable/logical to be tormenting anybody.

If my boss fires a guy I'll ask why. You could answer "because he's the boss."
"Yes he is, but why did he fire that guy?"
"Because he's the boss."
"I know he's the boss, but what was his reason for laying the man off?"
"He's the boss."
"Did the guy break something?"
"The boss is the boss."
"Sure. I just wonder why he chose to fire that man."
"Because he's the boss."
See? Not answering my question.

 

[holo]

You missed the entire point. It's about punishment in fire. God clearly warned us. I read somewhere, "Belief of Hell is not a requirement for residency."

I've never said there's no punishment in fire. I've said there is extremely little biblical evidence that people will have eternal life in the fire and suffer without end.

 

[dollarsbill]

I've never said there's no punishment in fire. I've said there is extremely little biblical evidence that people will have eternal life in the fire and suffer without end.

God will burn people alive but not forever?

 

[holo]

So you are saying you are more expert in the Bible languages than all of those who translated our English Bibles? What are your credentials?

I'm saying the original manuscripts ARE the bible languages.

Why would you trust an english translation over the original?

It does indeed.

Matthew 25 (NASB)
41 "Then He will also say to those on His left, 'Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels;
46 "These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."

Yes, eternal punishment, and as you see in the SAME VERSE it's OPPOSED to eternal life. Being dead forever is eternal punishment. Hiroshima and Nagasaki are destroyed forever. They aren't continually being destroyed.

 

[Rubiks]

people like Richard Dawkins wouldn't even like Heaven anyway; it is far too praiseworthy for God-haters to enjoy.

 

[holo]

God will burn people alive but not forever?

Yes, that's the basic idea. If you're going to argue that if he'll kill you He might as well torture you forever, I'll have to ask: if you're going to steal a car, why don't you murder my entire family with an axe while you're at it? It's not like it would be a different thing.

 

[dollarsbill]

Yes, that's the basic idea. If you're going to argue that if he'll kill you He might as well torture you forever,

That was not my point. God SEVERELY punished the wicked throughout the Bible as a warning to all of us.

I'll have to ask: if you're going to steal a car, why don't you murder my entire family with an axe while you're at it? It's not like it would be a different thing.

It would indeed be different. God doesn't burn people in Hell because someone in his family is wicked. He will because we are responsible for our own sins.

 

[createdtoworship]

God will burn people alive but not forever?

they don't suffer without end, it's outside of time all together. You can't seem to get out of that mindset.

 

[dollarsbill]

they don't suffer without end, it's outside of time all together. You can't seem to get out of that mindset.

Revelation 20:10 (NASB)
10 And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

 

[createdtoworship]

Revelation 20:10 (NASB)
10 And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

yeah eternity is outside of time, like heaven. We won't be bored in heaven because time will not go by at all. Heaven and Hell for that matter is beyond time. It's eternal.