Why an eternal hell? (2)

[TheyCallMeDave]

This thread was split automatically after 1000 replies and this thread has been automatically created.
The old thread automatically closed is here: "Why an eternal hell?"

Very simply : Because People choose to refuse Gods greatest example of love toward the Individual (Christ crucified) , so they have to atone for their own many accumulated sins which includes lifelong attempts at snubbing, mocking , being hostile toward Ones very own Creator .

Anything less than eternal Hell (desired seperation from God) , would be a gross injustice . And God although being infintely loving, is also infinitely Just ... so he cannot nullify his own nature and character . His justice has to be issued ..and its our choice WHOM it gets issued on.

 

[Armistead14]

Very simply : Because People choose to refuse Gods greatest example of love toward the Individual (Christ crucified) , so they have to atone for their own many accumulated sins which includes lifelong attempts at snubbing, mocking , being hostile toward Ones very own Creator .

Anything less than eternal Hell (desired seperation from God) , would be a gross injustice . And God although being infintely loving, is also infinitely Just ... so he cannot nullify his own nature and character . His justice has to be issued ..and its our choice WHOM it gets issued on.

So imperfect failed finite human beings are being judged based on the perfect infinite character of God?

Is it loving and just to be damned for eternity just for being born an imperfect being?

Is it loving and just to damn someone to eternity for following the beliefs of their parents or culture?

If we were all damned from birth, then infinite justice would say we all go to hell, if any plan changed that, including Christ, then justice isn't infinite.

 

[TheyCallMeDave]

So imperfect failed finite human beings are being judged based on the perfect infinite character of God?

Is it loving and just to be damned for eternity just for being born an imperfect being?

Is it loving and just to damn someone to eternity for following the beliefs of their parents or culture?

If we were all damned from birth, then infinite justice would say we all go to hell, if any plan changed that, including Christ, then justice isn't infinite.

1. No...rather : People who willfully suppress their moral conscience to live as they like immorally including pretending God isnt real / mocking him for a lifetime / sticking your nose up at him cause you dont want to be owned / needing to falsely believe that your great ancestor was just a worthless, unpurposed, needless Pond Protozoa to jettison God, and pretending 'Natural Causes' can conveniently replace God as Creator,Sustainer, and Designer are judged on Ones own volitional choice .

2. Re-read number 1.

3. Yes , it is Just for someone to go into a Godless eternity for following the culture which represents everything opposed to God , and for not recieving Gods only way to be saved from your sins. Rejecting God due to personal pride , arrogance, so one can live anyway they feel like...is an eternal crime.

4. No...infinite justice by God can and has to be metered out in one of two ways : 1. The guilty person can fairly pay for his own sin debt by having the justice equal to that of the crimes...or.... 2. an innocent substituting Person can take your place and you can go free . That choice is entirely up to you and I . ( ive chosen the latter way and am declared no longer guilty) .

 

[dollarsbill]

yeah eternity is outside of time, like heaven. We won't be bored in heaven because time will not go by at all. Heaven and Hell for that matter is beyond time. It's eternal.

Well yeah, that's what I said. Hell fire is forever.

 

[FredVB]

Are there bible verses saying that death doesn't mean the absence of life?

Where there is mention of torment day and night forever, for the dead, such as in Revelation 20, souls are experiencing what comes after death (what happened with their bodies as the souls parted) eternally. To have life would mean to have it as designed which in eternity is only through redemption in Christ. This position alone is consistent with all we are taught on it from Bible passages. Otherwise points from the Bible even when mentioned are disregarded, as does happen.

There are many instances in the NT mentioning punishment in the 'eternal fire', Hell, Lake of Fire, torment in fire, etc.

Yes, there a good number of verses for it, and I also say it is forever, I don't see mention of burning in them, the references may be to being surrounded by this 'fire' but this the circumstance of which Christ also said those judged would be caste into darkness. So they will be in this place with fire, but they will be in darkness.

 

[Emmy]

Dear Nihilist420. Jesus often talked about: " A Place in Outer Darkness without God`s Love or Light, where can be heard loud wailing and gnashing
of teeth." We all know that we have free will to follow Jesus back to God,
or go our own way, God will not force us in any way. God gave us His Commandments, and we either follow them, or not. We have much time to choose the right way, or not, God will not force us in any way.
Those of us who accept Jesus our Saviour`s great Sacrifice and choose Life
with our Heavenly Father, will follow the Way to eternal Life, (and Jesus is The Way) but those who prefer to go their own way, will end up in Outer Darkness, WITHOUT Gods Love or Light. What could be fairer? God is Love,
and God wants loving children/sons and daughters.
Jesus told us in Matthews 22, verses 35-40. The first and great Commandment is: Love God with all our hearts, with all our souls, and with all our minds. The second is like it: Love our neighbour as ourselves." We know that God wants our Love freely given, and no tags attached: either with God, or without God. Everything we say, or do, or advise, or even stand up for,
must be done or said from our Love for God, and our neighbour. ( all those we know or meet, friend or not friend) That is straightforward, and we have time to choose and change, to BE BORN AGAIN, Love and Obey.We have the choice, and Jesus our Saviour is The Way. I say this with love, Nihilist.
Greetings from Emmy, your sister in Christ.

 

[FreeinChrist]

MOD HAT


Clean up done.

Folks, please don't quote the trolls.

 

[dollarsbill]

Yes, there a good number of verses for it, and I also say it is forever, I don't see mention of burning in them, the references may be to being surrounded by this 'fire' but this the circumstance of which Christ also said those judged would be caste into darkness. So they will be in this place with fire, but they will be in darkness.

 

[FredVB]

There will be those going to this place of fire where there will be darkness, forever, they will be gnashing their teeth, Yahweh is loving and just in this, it is from his perfect goodness, and he provided enough grace for them to be delivered from that by bearing the full judgment for all of it, but this grace for them was rejected.

It is a biblical position to say that Yahweh is perfect, he is just and he is gracious, and he is not willing that any perish but would all come to him in the truth. He provides grace for each and all for that, any can respond to that and to those who do he gives more grace to come to the truth for salvation. Many do not respond accordingly. It is of greater importance that we promote the gospel of Christ for greater opportunity, according to his will.

 

[pescador]

I have a different take on this. It may seem simplistic but I have been a Christian for more than 30 years and REALLY try to understand the ways of God.

Much of the bible is symbolic so I don't believe in a literal "lake of fire" type hell. What I do believe is that when one is alive in the body one has a choice: either live according to the ways of God, having love and compassion (or more properly exhibit the fruits of the Spirit) or live for one's self, being separated from others by greed, selfishness, aggression, etc. Every person has this choice.

My belief is that when this life is over and you've had the chance you spend the rest of eternity, spiritually, with your own kind. If you have followed the ways of God and have lived according to his principles then you will co-exist with others who have made a similar choice. If not then you will be without God, Jesus, and the believers, but rather exist in a world of greed, rage, corruption, selfishness, etc.

That's my take. What do you think?

 

[Rubiks]

I think i'm in the group that says Hell isn't a literal fire. Revelation is a highly symbolic book, also Jesus spoke in parables. They aren't meant to be taken literally. All Hell is is eternal separation from God.

Don't get the wrong idea. Hell will indeed be a place of extreme shame and horror. I think Jesus' description of Hell as "eternal fire" accurately paints the image of Hell, in a symbolic sense

 

[Person of]

The belief in torture after death contradicts the Bible.

 

[FredVB]

The belief in torture after death contradicts the Bible.

Yes, I have been saying in this thread that the justice of God mentioned with hell or the lake of fire shown in passages is not mentioning torture in any of that, but what is said is that there will be anguish. What there would be is justice but not from torture.

 

[Person of]

Yes, I have been saying in this thread that the justice of God mentioned with hell or the lake of fire shown in passages is not mentioning torture in any of that, but what is said is that there will be anguish. What there would be is justice but not from torture.

Exactly.

If God created us in his likeness and image, though, we were fallen, but now we're saved, we should should have some type of understanding on how God works.

The Bible does not support the idea of torture after death, only if someone ignores numerous passages or twists them.

 

[dollarsbill]

I have a different take on this. It may seem simplistic but I have been a Christian for more than 30 years and REALLY try to understand the ways of God.

Much of the bible is symbolic so I don't believe in a literal "lake of fire" type hell. What I do believe is that when one is alive in the body one has a choice: either live according to the ways of God, having love and compassion (or more properly exhibit the fruits of the Spirit) or live for one's self, being separated from others by greed, selfishness, aggression, etc. Every person has this choice.

My belief is that when this life is over and you've had the chance you spend the rest of eternity, spiritually, with your own kind. If you have followed the ways of God and have lived according to his principles then you will co-exist with others who have made a similar choice. If not then you will be without God, Jesus, and the believers, but rather exist in a world of greed, rage, corruption, selfishness, etc.

That's my take. What do you think?

Do you also believe salvation is "symbolic" and not literal?

 

[dollarsbill]

Hell fire is real and eternal. The NT is clear.

 

[Assyrian]

Do you also believe salvation is "symbolic" and not literal?

There are plenty of symbolic descriptions of salvation. Are we really going to marry a sheep?

 

[dollarsbill]

There are plenty of symbolic descriptions of salvation. Are we really going to marry a sheep?

Scripture please.

 

[Person of]

Hell fire is real and eternal. The NT is clear.

Nah. It's interpretation.

Could you imagine torturing your children forever? Well, God created you in his likeness and image, so he wouldn't either.

The first mentions of hell were from pagans, too. The Old Testament is devoid of hell. The New Testament only mentions eternal torture symbolically or in parables.

I am not of the belief that God is a monster or sadistic freak, so I don't believe in torture after death.

 

[Assyrian]

Scripture please.

Rev 19:7 Let us rejoice and exult and give him the glory, for the marriage of the Lamb has come, and his Bride has made herself ready.