Why an eternal hell? (2)

[createdtoworship]

That doesn't answer anything. If the wages of our sin are eternal hell, then Christ payment for that sin would have to be eternal hell. If the wages for our sin is death, I can see that Christ paid that debt.

Do you think God sees you as "measly"?

do you think the life of a God is equal with the life of a human? Or a billion?

 

[createdtoworship]

But it is translated 'evil' in the KJV, ASV, Darby, and others. It's the same word used in these places:

Isaiah 5:20 "Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter."

Genesis 38:7 "But Er, Judah's firstborn, was wicked in the LORD's sight; so the LORD put him to death."

Deut 23:9 “When you are encamped against your enemies, then you shall keep yourself from every evil thing."

And many others.

It's the same word in Hebrew.

but the translation I quoted corrects many errors in the original KJV.

the NKJV is more accurate in many places.

 

[createdtoworship]

They weren't, but we shouldn't feel sorry for any of them, because they deserve infinitely more suffering than a mere few years in a concentration camp.

well if they were not murdered for sins against God and by God, than what is the point of this conversation?

 

[Timothew]

When we've been there ten thousand years,
burning brightly as the sun,
we've no less days to sing of God's praise,
Than when we've first begun.

 

[dollarsbill]

There should be a pretty strong contrast in their actions, right?

Yes indeed.

 

[dollarsbill]

What Hitler did is nothing compared to what God will do (is doing) to people.

God is worse than Hitler?

 

[dollarsbill]

On what grounds is torture right if God does it for eternity, but wrong if a human does it for a few years?

This has already been explained. God is omniscient, humans are not. God knows exactly what individuals deserve. Humans do not know. Sinful humans cannot judge others fairly.

 

[dollarsbill]

So we have absolutely no way of knowing whether God is just or not. Except that He said so. Which is probably what He would say whether He was just or not. Right?

Well yeah. The Bible is all about what God has told us. He is just and righteous. Humans are sinful.

 

[dollarsbill]

When the unredeemed bow confessing Christ is Lord it will not be from faith, that with which the redeemed are saved, it will rather be from seeing the truth clearly seen and having that be an overwhelming response in which they cannot do otherwise, God is so glorious. Having been without that faith and not being redeemed, doing that will not save them, and they will still face judgment.

Well said!

 

[holo]

There is this spelled out God is not willing that any should perish but that all would come to everlasting life.

I don't exactly see it spelled out, especially not in the OT. It's really strange to have the fate of most of creation simply kept a secret until some very few verses in the NT having to be interpreted in a certain way together to conclude, finally, that the everlasting fate for most of His creation is for Him to torment them forever.

It is only through coming to faith with the salvation that is in Christ who is the only way. Yahweh our God is gracious giving chances to all

If that grace comes by hearing the gospel and then make a decision regarding it, there are so many who never get to hear it, even in the first world.

Christ bore judgment for sin, as God, he could do that all that one time

But again, if the punishment for sin was eternal suffering, then Jesus did not in fact pay that price. The (our) punishment was laid on Him, as the bible says. Not that a completely different punishment was laid on Him. But yes, there is indeed a difference between Him and us - He has eternal life, therefore He could come back from death.

All definitions used are with all the Bible being consistent, so there is not problems of thinking parts say conflicting things.

Apparently life and death does mean different things in the bible, which in any case when we read it in english, doesn't convey the full and true meaning of things. Remember that the bible itself is written in more than one language. But that doesn't mean it's necessarily complicated. Eternal life, for example, probably does mean eternal life. And like I mentioned before, God denied people eternal life after they were cast out of Eden.

This is a straw man argument, I do not know that any of us are saying something contrary to this.

Everybody who says God will torment anybody forever is in effect saying He will judge unrighteously.

One has the idea, adopted from one's church or family, that hell means eternal torment, and then tries to interpret the bible in a way to suit it, just like catholics find a few verses to support their doctrine that the eucharist is in fact the actual body of Christ and so forth.

That is the problem seeing contrary things said with not having the right understanding with definition. Destruction along with perishing is a corruption from what any are intended to be from God's creation, it is everlasting, cut off from the presence of God where the redeemed are forever in bliss, there will be torment with no rest day or night.

What is your take on Rev 14:10?

 

[holo]

well if they were not murdered for sins against God and by God, than what is the point of this conversation?

The point is: did they deserve it or not? If it was God who imprisoned, tortured and gassed them to death, they would've deserved it, right? So when we say Hitler was immoral, it wasn't because he murdered more than six million people, it's because he tried to do God's job.

 

[holo]

God is worse than Hitler?

We say Hitler was evil because of what he did to people who didn't deserve it. Then on the other hand we maintain that they deserve infinitely worse. What you say God will do to people is infinitely worse than what Hitler could even dream of doing.

 

[holo]

This has already been explained. God is omniscient, humans are not. God knows exactly what individuals deserve. Humans do not know. Sinful humans cannot judge others fairly.

So then we can't say that what Hitler did was wrong.

 

[holo]

well if they were not murdered for sins against God and by God, than what is the point of this conversation?

Do you feel sorry for them?

 

[dollarsbill]

So then we can't say that what Hitler did was wrong.

Mass murder isn't wrong??? I say it is.

 

[holo]

Mass murder isn't wrong??? I say it is.

But they deserve so much worse, don't they?

 

[Armistead14]

Mass murder isn't wrong??? I say it is.

You just said sinful human beings can't judge properly, so how do you know it's wrong?

 

[createdtoworship]

Do you feel sorry for them?

I don't feel sorry for them, but I do regret their decisions. And I am not happy about their destination.

 

[createdtoworship]

The point is: did they deserve it or not? If it was God who imprisoned, tortured and gassed them to death, they would've deserved it, right? So when we say Hitler was immoral, it wasn't because he murdered more than six million people, it's because he tried to do God's job.

no it was because they actually didn't deserve the punishment, it didn't suit the crime.....well there was no crime.

 

[holo]

They deserve eternal torment, but not three years in a death camp...

Do you think Hitler was wrong in what he did? Why?