Why an eternal hell? (2)

[dollarsbill]

But they deserve so much worse, don't they?

God knows. He is omniscient. We aren't.

 

[dollarsbill]

You just said sinful human beings can't judge properly, so how do you know it's wrong?

If you don't already know that mass murder is wrong I'm not going to try to convince you.

 

[Armistead14]

If you don't already know that mass murder is wrong I'm not going to try to convince you.

It was you that said sinful humans don't have the ability to judge, not me.

Your one liners almost always contradict each other.

 

[dollarsbill]

It was you that said sinful humans don't have the ability to judge, not me.

Your one liners almost always contradict each other.

This thread is about 'eternal Hell'. Only God has the 'ability' to judge who goes to Hell and who doesn't.

 

[seeingeyes]

This thread is about 'eternal Hell'. Only God has the 'ability' to judge who goes to Hell and who doesn't.

I believe this thread is about why an eternal hell. If you don't know, just say so. No harm in that.

 

[dollarsbill]

I believe this thread is about why an eternal hell. If you don't know, just say so. No harm in that.

I don't know why God created the 'eternal hell', but I know the NT says He did. And what He does is righteous and sovereign.

 

[seeingeyes]

And what He does is righteous and sovereign.

It certainly is. Amen.

 

[Timothew]

And what He does is righteous and sovereign.

It certainly is. Amen.

Which also means that if something is not righteous, God doesn't do it.

 

[seeingeyes]

Which also means that if something is not righteous, God doesn't do it.

Amen again.

 

[dollarsbill]

A lot of things that God did in the Bible would be considered unrighteous to many people. I.E the Flood.

 

[seeingeyes]

A lot of things that God did in the Bible would be considered unrighteous to many people. I.E the Flood.

Who said that the flood was unrighteous? Did I miss that post?

 

[dollarsbill]

Who said that the flood was unrighteous? Did I miss that post?

I was just using that as an example. I could have used other examples. I.E. burning Sodom alive, the curse of Dt 28, etc.

 

[seeingeyes]

I was just using that as an example. I could have used other examples. I.E. burning Sodom alive, the curse of Dt 28, etc.

The flood and the fireworks at Sodom both had an end, though. They ended in death. A punishment that ends in death in not the same as a punishment that never ends with death.

Deut 28 is an interesting point, because we see how that plays out later in the prophets. The Israelites did indeed disobey God and they did indeed receive the curse of Deut 28, but they were always promised restoration at the end of their trials.

 

[LemonAidStand]

Your theft was from another finite being, making it a finite punishment. God is infinite so the punishment for transgressions against Him are infinite. When Jesus died, He took those sins to the grave. He is infinite as well. He always was. He became flesh so that he could pay for those sins. Hell is only for those who reject that sacrifice.

May God Richly Bless you!

You are clearly wrong in your reasoning of punishment.. All sin is against God. Whether it is againste a finite being or God.. The fi ite belongs to the infinite.. If you kill my pig are you sinning against the pig or the one that owns it.. Give your head a shake
and stop trying to come across as wise.. Because you are sounding foolish.. Even moreso childish..
This site is about edifying one another and building everyone that comes on here up in tbe Lord Jesus Christ.. The last thing we need to do is argue in front of a bunch of newbie christians or those still on the fence trying to decide.. Stop being so selfish.. Make Jesus the standard and go from there... If it wete all about how much scripture we knew.. Then the Lord would not have rebuked the teachers of the law.. now start acting like a christian

 

[dollarsbill]

The flood and the fireworks at Sodom both had an end, though. They ended in death. A punishment that ends in death in not the same as a punishment that never ends with death.

God made it plain how He feels about wickedness. Satan will indeed burn forever in torment.

Deut 28 is an interesting point, because we see how that plays out later in the prophets. The Israelites did indeed disobey God and they did indeed receive the curse of Deut 28, but they were always promised restoration at the end of their trials.

Not those who perished. Again God made it clear how He views rebellion against Him. The curse of Dt 28 is about as horrible as anything I know of.

 

[seeingeyes]

God made it plain how He feels about wickedness. Satan will indeed burn forever in torment.

Which would be different than him burning for a while, then dying. Right? That's the difference I was asking about.

Not those who perished. Again God made it clear how He views rebellion against Him. The curse of Dt 28 is about as horrible as anything I know of.

Yes He did. But He always saved a remnant - which isn't mentioned in the covenant with Israel in Deuteronomy. Always a remnant was saved for the sake of his friend Abraham. Fascinating.

 

[createdtoworship]

A lot of things that God did in the Bible would be considered unrighteous to many people. I.E the Flood.

thats rights!

 

[FredVB]

I don't exactly see it spelled out, especially not in the OT.

2 Peter 3:9 for one shows God is not willing that any should perish. Do you think passages in the new testament contradict God's teaching in the old testament?

It's really strange to have the fate of most of creation simply kept a secret until some very few verses in the NT having to be interpreted in a certain way together to conclude, finally, that the everlasting fate for most of His creation is for Him to torment them forever.

Condemnation is not the fate of most of creation, but of those human people who rebel against God with his grace. Redemption of creation is in prophecy. All things of salvation, even though grace from Yahweh for salvation was available all along, were a mystery until the coming o Christ, when the gospel was spelled out in the new testament, and shown to fulfill passages in the old testament, this is shown in places as Hebrews 1:2. Teaching on judgment in eternity also came along with this, with things Christ the Lord taught.

If that grace comes by hearing the gospel and then make a decision regarding it, there are so many who never get to hear it, even in the first world.

I never ever actually said that. There are statements I find as this that do not deal with what I do say.

But again, if the punishment for sin was eternal suffering, then Jesus did not in fact pay that price. The (our) punishment was laid on Him, as the bible says. Not that a completely different punishment was laid on Him.

This disregards the things I have already said about it, and it actually argues against faith in Christ with what he did. You also show doubt of what he can do. What will not be finished by any of us for eternity he as God does at one time, with a capacity we, certainly including you, cannot understand.

Apparently life and death does mean different things in the bible, which in any case when we read it in english, doesn't convey the full and true meaning of things. Remember that the bible itself is written in more than one language. But that doesn't mean it's necessarily complicated. Eternal life, for example, probably does mean eternal life.

Yes, we without revelation do not really understand what death is, and many as yourself fall on worldly understandings of it. The Bible, revelation from Yahweh our God, provides some understanding for those who will see it. And that much indeed is not complicated. If eternal life does mean it is eternal, as it does, the same word being used applies in the same way to those dying in rebellion to God with his grace for torment in eternity.

Everybody who says God will torment anybody forever is in effect saying He will judge unrighteously.

This is your judgment from your understanding on which you insist. This judges God in what he would do, which we are even told in scriptures not to do in any case. No one here to my knowledge is actually saying what God will do will be unrighteous, but there is this reinterpretation by internal standards, rather than letting God be God. There is no understanding, even by any, how there will be torment.

What is your take on Rev 14:10?

The context, Revelation 14:9-11, says:
If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand, he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.

The passage says it as it is. The wrath of God comes without it being limited, with his judgment on them, in their rebellion, shown with the mark, and they are tormented, "with fire and brimstone", which continues forever and ever, that they have no rest day or night. It would be fair according to sins which are rebellion, so it would apply to any others in rebellion that way, that is never coming to redemption according to his terms. We cannot know whatever supernatural things there may be with that, any more than streets that are pure gold, like transparent glass.

 

[holo]

I don't know why God created the 'eternal hell', but I know the NT says He did. And what He does is righteous and sovereign.

It's not exactly spelled out across the NT (much less the OT) that the fate of most of us is eternal torment. There's a much stronger case for everybody being saved eventually (I'm not arguing that, just pointing out that there are MANY verses that seem to say that plainly). Again, why would God be so incredibly vague and slow to warn people against the worst fate imaginable?

 

[holo]

OK, you say God is righteous "because He says so." So you don't judge God by His actions. Christ crucified, for example, or Jesus healing people, could just as easily have been an evil thing, we're unable to know. We just have to trust God when He says those things are good.

But with humans it's different. With humans we're perfectly able to discern that Hitler, for example, did evil things...

A lot of things that God did in the Bible would be considered unrighteous to many people. I.E the Flood.

True, but there are many other passages that can be taken to explain or modify those things. For instance the resurrection and righteous judgment of all, including those who drowned in the flood. There's the belief, or hope at least, that God will ultimately judge us all righteously, and maybe even mercifully.

But we're not so hopelessly unable to discern good from evil that we can get away with believing eternal torment can possibly be a good or righteous thing.