Who will not inherit the kingdom?

[lismore]

Where do you see the word "saved"?

Good point, it is often assumed that the two terms are synonymous- 'saved' and 'inheriting the Kingdom'.
God Bless

 

[fhansen]

The question isn't who won't enter the Kingdom, but what won't enter the Kingdom.

Pretty much every commentator sees this wording talking about the Kingdom after death.

E.g. "flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. " (1 Cor 15:50) This is pretty obviously talking about what happens after death.

I would argue, however, that that doesn't mean we should see this passage as establishing a list of sins that keep us out of salvation. Between this passage and a similarly worded one in Gal 5:21 I think he manages to include pretty much everyone.

Rather, I would look at the fact that Paul understands that even those who are saved have an aspect remaining that hasn't yet been removed, which he calls "flesh." The lists of sins are those associated with "flesh," as he says in Gal 5:19. Those will not be allowed into the Kingdom, as we will be freed of them after death.

Of course 1 Cor 6:9 is aimed at current conduct. He is telling people that these things are part of their "flesh," and not part of the Kingdom. Thus continuing in them is not consistent with being Christians. This isn't a threat that they will be damned. There's nothing in the context suggesting that. He's aware that our "flesh" continues as long as we are alive. But as Jesus' followers we are committed to eliminating it.

There's nothing in Scripture that should lead anyone to think that being an adulterer, murder, wantonly sinful is consistent with Christianity and is suddenly ok as long as one... believes, as if faith, by itself, makes all that ok now even as it's still considered sort of yucky business. Just the opposite is true, in fact.

Jesus overcame sin so that we may do so now as well, even as we'll continue to struggle against it. But it need not condemn us anymore to the extent that we no longer commit those sins that lead to death, that we're on the path of God's righteousness now. There's a difference. All sin opposes God by its nature, while some sins are so intrinsically evil and harmful as to directly oppose love and destroy it in us. That's death.

"Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit who gives life has set you free from the law of sin and death. For what the law was powerless to do because it was weakened by the flesh, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in the flesh, in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the flesh but according to the Spirit." Rom 8:1-4

"Therefore, brothers and sisters, we have an obligation—but it is not to the flesh, to live according to it. For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live." Rom 8:12-13

 

[hedrick]

There's nothing in Scripture that should lead anyone to think that being an adulterer, murder, wantonly sinful is consistent with Christianity and is suddenly ok as long as one... believes, as if faith, by itself, makes all that ok now even as it's still considered sort of yucky business. Just the opposite is true, in fact.

Jesus overcame sin so that we may do so now as well, even as we'll continue to struggle against it. But it need not condemn us anymore to the extent that we no longer commit those sins that lead to death, that we're on the path of God's righteousness now. There's a difference. All sin opposes God by its nature, while some sins are so intrinsically evil and harmful as to directly oppose love and destroy it in us. That's death.

"Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit who gives life has set you free from the law of sin and death. For what the law was powerless to do because it was weakened by the flesh, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in the flesh, in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the flesh but according to the Spirit." Rom 8:1-4

"Therefore, brothers and sisters, we have an obligation—but it is not to the flesh, to live according to it. For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live." Rom 8:12-13

I would not want to be understood as saying God doesn't care about what we do. Jesus is clear enough that he does care, and we will be held accountable.

However Paul understands that we are a mix of the new and old man. The old man will not be in the Kingdom. That doesn't necessarily imply that some people will be tormented forever. That's the implication I was commenting on.

 

[fhansen]

I would not want to be understood as saying God doesn't care about what we do. Jesus is clear enough that he does care, and we will be held accountable.

However Paul understands that we are a mix of the new and old man. The old man will not be in the Kingdom. That doesn't necessarily imply that some people will be tormented forever. That's the implication I was commenting on.

Ok, thank you. My main point is simply that the new covenant does not do away with man's obligation to be righteous, but, in fact, finally enables him to do so, by the Spirit, in union with God.

 

[hedrick]

I think the only way to avoid Paul contradicting Jesus is to understand pistis as faithfulness. In that case his opposition is not to identifying Christianity with how we live, but rather to identifying it with certain legalistic definitions of Christianity.

While this puts him in agreement with Jesus in general terms, I think there are still some remnants of his background as a Pharisee in his use of purity and sin. Jesus cared greatly about how we live, but rejected the Pharisees’ putting it in terms of purity and holiness (terms Jesus never used in talking about people). Indeed he didn’t even speak much about sin (except its forgiveness), probably because it had been abused so badly in by the Pharisees. (When Jesus is accused of consorting with sinners, they are not thieves and murderers, but people who didn’t, and due to economic circumstances maybe couldn’t, obey the Pharisees’ mandates.)

However none of this has much to do with precisely what penalties or rehabilitation people who aren’t faithful will face.

 

[fhansen]

I think the only way to avoid Paul contradicting Jesus is to understand pistis as faithfulness. In that case his opposition is not to identifying Christianity with how we live, but rather to identifying it with certain legalistic definitions of Christianity.

While this puts him in agreement with Jesus in general terms, I think there are still some remnants of his background as a Pharisee in his use of purity and sin. Jesus cared greatly about how we live, but rejected the Pharisees’ putting it in terms of purity and holiness (terms Jesus never used in talking about people). Indeed he didn’t even speak much about sin (except its forgiveness), probably because it had been abused so badly in by the Pharisees. (When Jesus is accused of consorting with sinners, they are not thrives and murderers, but people who didn’t, and due to economic circumstances maybe couldn’t, obey the Pharisees’ mandates.)

However none of this has much to do with precisely what penalties or rehabilitation
people who aren’t faithful will face.

And yet Jesus did speak of the need to be perfect as our heavenly Father is perfect, and He chastised the Pharisees for being clean on the outside only while needing to be clean on the inside first of all. He also told the woman caught in adultery to 'go, and sin no more' and told the rich young ruler that he needed to obey the commandments in order to enter life. In my mind Jesus and Paul are easily reconciled. They both understand the need for grace, the need for God in us, in order to begin to approach the righteousness He created us to have.
"Apart from Me you can do nothing." John 15:5
"But with God all things are possible." Matt 19:26

"But now, apart from the law, the righteousness of God has been revealed, as attested by the Law and the Prophets. And this righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe." Rom 3:21-22

That righteousness is possible only via faith, which enters us into union with God, the only true source of all goodness and righteousness, the source of love to perhaps put it best. My 2 cents.

 

[fli]

There's nothing in Scripture that should lead anyone to think that being an adulterer, murder, wantonly sinful is consistent with Christianity and is suddenly ok as long as one... believes, as if faith, by itself, makes all that ok now even as it's still considered sort of yucky business. Just the opposite is true, in fact.

Jesus overcame sin so that we may do so now as well, even as we'll continue to struggle against it. But it need not condemn us anymore to the extent that we no longer commit those sins that lead to death, that we're on the path of God's righteousness now. There's a difference. All sin opposes God by its nature, while some sins are so intrinsically evil and harmful as to directly oppose love and destroy it in us. That's death.

"Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit who gives life has set you free from the law of sin and death. For what the law was powerless to do because it was weakened by the flesh, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in the flesh, in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the flesh but according to the Spirit." Rom 8:1-4

"Therefore, brothers and sisters, we have an obligation—but it is not to the flesh, to live according to it. For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live." Rom 8:12-13

Yes, as Christians we should show the world Jesus through our actions. But unfortunately that is not the way it is.

There was a man after God's own heart who committed adultery. Then to cover it up he had one of his friends, a trusted warriors, killed. He was a prophet that the Spirit of the Lord came on with power. He was a man who wrote many prophecies concerning Jesus. He may have known more about Jesus than most Christians today. Even though he had the Spirit, with power, God had to confront with another prophet before he repented. That was forced repentance.

Then there was Solomon who was the wisest man who ever lived. He also broke every rule that God made for a king. He had 700 wives and 300 concubines and helped introduce a lot of idol worship to God's people.

All of the above was in the OT. In the new testament there is the Corinthian church.

1 Corinthians 1:2 To the church of God in Corinth, to those sanctified in Christ Jesus and called to be holy, together with all those everywhere who call on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ — their Lord and ours: 3 Grace and peace to you from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. 4 I always thank God for you because of his grace given you in Christ Jesus. 5 For in him you have been enriched in every way — in all your speaking and in all your knowledge— 6 because our testimony about Christ was confirmed in you. 7 Therefore you do not lack any spiritual gift as you eagerly wait for our Lord Jesus Christ to be revealed. NIV

A church that was composed of Jews and gentiles. A church that Paul started after the Jerusalem council gave him a letter to inform all the churches of it's contents. You can look it up in acts. Every member of the church, while Paul was there had their conversion confirmed by manifest gifts. A Church that had an abundance of gifts. Why did God allow the epistle to Corinth to survive? He sent a letter to us as to how a Christian church with many true believers acted. We are saved by Jesus through faith not on any works we do.

Jesus said we had to be as perfect as the Father. The moment we are in Jesus we are as perfect as Jesus. We can not be any more righteous than at that moment. Our righteousness is not dependent on what we do. God wants us to act correctly. He does not require it.

 

[hedrick]

And yet Jesus did speak of the need to be perfect as our heavenly Father is perfect, and He chastised the Pharisees for being clean on the outside only while needing to be clean on the inside first of all. He also told the woman caught in adultery to 'go, and sin no more' and told the rich young ruler that he needed to obey the commandments in order to enter life.

Again, I'm not denying that Jesus cares about our lives. I'm saying he didn't typically use "sin" as his way of talking about that. Yes, there's the one passage where he says "go and sin no more" in (sort of) John. There's one or two in the Synoptics. But when he talked about judgement, he didn't use sin. He condemned people for being useless, for hurting others, for opposing the Gospel. But not for sinning.

Following Jesus will in fact prevent sin. But I believe you get somewhat different things if your main goal is to avoid sin than if it's to be Christ's agent in establishing the Kingdom.

 

[fhansen]

Yes, as Christians we should show the world Jesus through our actions. But unfortunately that is not the way it is.

There was a man after God's own heart who committed adultery. Then to cover it up he had one of his friends, a trusted warriors, killed. He was a prophet that the Spirit of the Lord came on with power. He was a man who wrote many prophecies concerning Jesus. He may have known more about Jesus than most Christians today. Even though he had the Spirit, with power, God had to confront with another prophet before he repented. That was forced repentance.

Then there was Solomon who was the wisest man who ever lived. He also broke every rule that God made for a king. He had 700 wives and 300 concubines and helped introduce a lot of idol worship to God's people.

All of the above was in the OT. In the new testament there is the Corinthian church.

1 Corinthians 1:2 To the church of God in Corinth, to those sanctified in Christ Jesus and called to be holy, together with all those everywhere who call on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ — their Lord and ours: 3 Grace and peace to you from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. 4 I always thank God for you because of his grace given you in Christ Jesus. 5 For in him you have been enriched in every way — in all your speaking and in all your knowledge— 6 because our testimony about Christ was confirmed in you. 7 Therefore you do not lack any spiritual gift as you eagerly wait for our Lord Jesus Christ to be revealed. NIV

A church that was composed of Jews and gentiles. A church that Paul started after the Jerusalem council gave him a letter to inform all the churches of it's contents. You can look it up in acts. Every member of the church, while Paul was there had their conversion confirmed by manifest gifts. A Church that had an abundance of gifts. Why did God allow the epistle to Corinth to survive? He sent a letter to us as to how a Christian church with many true believers acted. We are saved by Jesus through faith not on any works we do.

Jesus said we had to be as perfect as the Father. The moment we are in Jesus we are as perfect as Jesus. We can not be any more righteous than at that moment. Our righteousness is not dependent on what we do. God wants us to act correctly. He does not require it.

This is called…nonsense, and has nothing to do with the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ, a gospel which has been well understood for over two millennia but one that’s been severely gutted and butchered by novelties in line with your understanding.

You may as well be denying Isaiah 5:20. Right is wrong and wrong is right now in the “Christian” world where a new pretend righteousness reigns and God no longer demands personal righteousness as long as one has some paltry degree of “faith”. Sin is ok because it’s insurmountable, even with God. Right. Only Satan’s laughing about that idea.

 

[fhansen]

Again, I'm not denying that Jesus cares about our lives. I'm saying he didn't typically use "sin" as his way of talking about that. Yes, there's the one passage where he says "go and sin no more" in (sort of) John. There's one or two in the Synoptics. But when he talked about judgement, he didn't use sin. He condemned people for being useless, for hurting others, for opposing the Gospel. But not for sinning.

Following Jesus will in fact prevent sin. But I believe you get somewhat different things if your main goal is to avoid sin than if it's to be Christ's agent in establishing the Kingdom.

Personally I think you get the same thing, which is why NT Scripture often warns against returning to the flesh, that sin will still keep one from God’s presence. Our focus should be to love God with our whole heart, soul, mind, and strength and our neighbor as ourselves. Then harm to others (sin) is precluded, justice begins to be restored, and Gods kingdom is advanced, in each of us one at a time.

Legalism is always a threat, but faith does not replace the obligation for man to be righteous. He simply cannot accomplish that on his own, apart from Christ. That’s the meaning of Rom 7:25. Faith is the means, the vehicle, to Him, with all that implies including the righteousness which comes by virtue of that fellowship.

“…not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ—the righteousness that comes from God on the basis of faith.” Phil 3:9

“But now apart from the law the righteousness of God has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. This righteousness is given through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe.” Rom 3:21-22

IMO Jesus actually raises the standard for righteousness in Matt 5 while nonetheless removing the burden of legalism from the equation. How does one obtain this righteousness? Through humility, through meekness, through purity of heart, a hunger and thirst for righteousness, through love to sum it up, rather than through our own attempts at righteousness, driven by pride rather than a humble acknowledgment of our need for God in order to be made clean and walk uprightly. We’re still to hate sin and all the harmful ugliness it causes in this world and in us but the answer to it is love, is God, not ourselves. Man is the problem to begin with to the degree that we’re on our own, apart from Him and the love that only He can give. We’re to love as He does-and the doorway is faith, in Him.

 

[fli]

This is called…nonsense, and has nothing to do with the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ, a gospel which has been well understood for over two millennia but one that’s been severely gutted and butchered by novelties in line with your understanding.

You may as well be denying Isaiah 5:20. Right is wrong and wrong is right now in the “Christian” world where a new pretend righteousness reigns and God no longer demands personal righteousness as long as one has some paltry degree of “faith”. Sin is ok because it’s insurmountable, even with God. Right. Only Satan’s laughing about that idea.

1 Corinthians 11:30 That is why many among you are weak and sick, and a number of you have fallen asleep. 31 But if we judged ourselves, we would not come under judgment. 32 When we are judged by the Lord, we are being disciplined so that we will not be condemned with the world. NIV

Paul is very clear. The drunks were being disciplined. God disciplines His children. They are sons of God. They first got sick. When they continued to get drunk they fell asleep (died). To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. Their souls went to heaven to await the resurrection.

1 Corinthians 3:12 If any man builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw, 13 his work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each man's work. 14 If what he has built survives, he will receive his reward. 15 If it is burned up, he will suffer loss; he himself will be saved, but only as one escaping through the flames. NIV

They had built with wood, hay and straw. God rewarded them according to their works. The drunken behavior was tested and did not remain. There are no drunks in heaven. God forgave their behavior and could remember it no mare.

 

[fhansen]

1 Corinthians 11:30 That is why many among you are weak and sick, and a number of you have fallen asleep. 31 But if we judged ourselves, we would not come under judgment. 32 When we are judged by the Lord, we are being disciplined so that we will not be condemned with the world. NIV

Paul is very clear. The drunks were being disciplined. God disciplines His children. They are sons of God. They first got sick. When they continued to get drunk they fell asleep (died). To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. Their souls went to heaven to await the resurrection.

1 Corinthians 3:12 If any man builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw, 13 his work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each man's work. 14 If what he has built survives, he will receive his reward. 15 If it is burned up, he will suffer loss; he himself will be saved, but only as one escaping through the flames. NIV

They had built with wood, hay and straw. God rewarded them according to their works. The drunken behavior was tested and did not remain. There are no drunks in heaven. God forgave their behavior and could remember it no mare.

We can’t build a theology on an isolated passage or two. His chastisement works only to the extent that we respond to it. Look at 1 Cor 6:9-11, a few chapters earlier:

“Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.”

And many others, with a few examples here:

“Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have the right to the tree of life and may go through the gates into the city. Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood.” Rev 22:14-15

“Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off.” Rom 11:22

“Dear children, do not let anyone lead you astray. The one who does what is right is righteous, just as he is righteous. The one who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil’s work. No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God. This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not God’s child, nor is anyone who does not love their brother and sister.” 1 John 3:7-10

God forgave their behavior and could remember it no mare.

And expects them then, by the Spirit, to 'go, and sin no more':

"Therefore, brothers and sisters, we have an obligation—but it is not to the flesh, to live according to it. For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live." Rom 8:12-13

That's a primary purpose of the New Covenant, for God, by virtue of our entering union with Him via faith, to accomplish the righteousness in us that we cannot accomplish on our own, apart from Him:

“I will put my law in their minds
and write it on their hearts.
I will be their God,
and they will be my people.
No longer will they teach their neighbor,
or say to one another, ‘Know the Lord,’
because they will all know me,
from the least of them to the greatest,”
declares the Lord.
“For I will forgive their wickedness
and will remember their sins no more.” Jer 31:33-34

"If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness." 1 John 1:9

"Apart from Me you can do nothing." John 15:5

 

[fli]

We can’t build a theology on an isolated passage or two. His chastisement works only to the extent that we respond to it. Look at 1 Cor 6:9-11, a few chapters earlier:

“Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.”

And many others, with a few examples here:

“Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have the right to the tree of life and may go through the gates into the city. Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood.” Rev 22:14-15

“Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off.” Rom 11:22

“Dear children, do not let anyone lead you astray. The one who does what is right is righteous, just as he is righteous. The one who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil’s work. No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God. This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not God’s child, nor is anyone who does not love their brother and sister.” 1 John 3:7-10

And expects them then, by the Spirit, to 'go, and sin no more':

"Therefore, brothers and sisters, we have an obligation—but it is not to the flesh, to live according to it. For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live." Rom 8:12-13

That's a primary purpose of the New Covenant, for God, by virtue of our entering union with Him via faith, to accomplish the righteousness in us that we cannot accomplish on our own, apart from Him:

“I will put my law in their minds
and write it on their hearts.
I will be their God,
and they will be my people.
No longer will they teach their neighbor,
or say to one another, ‘Know the Lord,’
because they will all know me,
from the least of them to the greatest,”
declares the Lord.
“For I will forgive their wickedness
and will remember their sins no more.” Jer 31:33-34

"If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness." 1 John 1:9

"Apart from Me you can do nothing." John 15:5

Revelation 22: 14-15 . A Son of God cannot sin. The drunks died in Jesus. God does not assign sin to His children. If God disciplines someone they are a son of God. When they die the wood, straw and hay gets burned up. The sin did not make it through the fire. Therefore; all drunks do not inherit the kingdom of God. Because the sins do not pass the fire all people in heaven are sinless.

Romans 11:20-Granted. But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but be afraid. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either. 22 Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off. NIV

God broke off natural Israel because of unbelief not because of their sins. He will break us off if we quit trusting in Jesus.

One does not get cut off for sin because we can't sin while in Jesus. In Him is no sin.

I will discuss 1John 3: 7-10 but first we must put it into context.

1 John 3:4 Everyone who sins breaks the law; in fact, sin is lawlessness. 5 But you know that he appeared so that he might take away our sins. 5b And in him is no sin. 6 No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him. NIV

John tells us just what sin is. Sin is breaking the law. Sin is lawlessness because if you break one you break all the law. Therefore sin is lawlessness. If there is no law there is no sin.

Romans 10:4 Christ is the end of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes. NIV

All believers in Jesus are not under the law so that there is righteousness for them.

All believers are righteous.

Verse 5b in Jesus there is no sin. Yet in 1 John 1:8 John said we lie if we say we have no sin. If we lie because we say we are without sin-how can there be no sin in Him? See below

Romans 4:6 David says the same thing when he speaks of the blessedness of the man to whom God credits righteousness apart from works: 7 "Blessed are they whose transgressions are forgiven, whose sins are covered. 8 Blessed is the man whose sin the Lord will never count against him.” NIV

There is no sin in Him because (I've said it before) works, good or bad, have nothing to do with our righteousness. God gives us the righteousness of Jesus.

I am going to give you one that you did not list.

1 John 3:6 (a) No one who lives in him keeps on sinning.(b) No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him. NIV

1Jn 3:6 (a) Romans 10:4 Anyone in Him cannot sin therefore; they cannot continue to sin. For 1Jn 3:6 (b) John 10: 14 all Jesus' sheep know Him. John 17: 24 all those the Father gave to Jesus have seen Him.

1 John 3:7 Dear children, do not let anyone lead you astray. He who does what is right is righteous, just as he is righteous. NIV

A common rendering of verse 7 is: he who practices righteousness is righteous as He is righteou

Sons of God are not under the law nor does God impute sin to us, Therefore we are righteous even when we doing things normally called sin. Sons of God practice righteousness 24-7 because God grants it to us.

1 John 3:8 He who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil's work. NIV

If anyone is committing sin they must be in Satan's kingdom. Sons of God cannot sin because we are not under the law. God does not impute sin to us.

1 John 3:9- No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God. NIV

As soon as someone enters into the kingdom of God they stop sinning immediately. As long as God's seed is in him he cannot sin

1 John 3:10 This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not a child of God; nor is anyone who does not love his brother. NIV

A common rendering of this is: this is how we know who the children of God and the children of the devil are: Whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is he who does not love his brother.

If we cannot sin we are righteous as Jesus was righteous. Part of Jesus' righteousness was love for His brethren.

There are more that one scripture that supports what I said about the drunks in Corinth.

1 Corinthians 6:9 I have looked at it. Paul is naming some sins that the Corinthians were involved with. Let's look at the sexually immoral.

1 Corinthians 5:1 It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and of a kind that does not occur even among pagans: A man has his father's wife. 2 And you are proud! Shouldn't you rather have been filled with grief and have put out of your fellowship the man who did this? 3 Even though I am not physically present, I am with you in spirit. And I have already passed judgment on the one who did this, just as if I were present. 4 When you are assembled in the name of our Lord Jesus and I am with you in spirit, and the power of our Lord Jesus is present, 5 hand this man over to Satan, so that the sinful nature may be destroyed and his spirit saved on the day of the Lord. NIV

If you are in Satan's kingdom you cannot be turned over to Satan as you already belong to him.Therefore the young man was a son of God. You have to be born again to be in the kingdom of God.. Romans 7:18 the sinful nature is not destroyed until the body dies. Until then the sinful nature is alive, The young man would either repent or die. Either way his spirit would be saved. Again if he died under discipline his sins would be burnt off and paid for. His soul would enter heaven without the sin of sexual immorality.

 

[Der Alte]

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1 Corinthians 5:1 It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and of a kind that does not occur even among pagans: A man has his father's wife. 2 And you are proud! Shouldn't you rather have been filled with grief and have put out of your fellowship the man who did this? 3 Even though I am not physically present, I am with you in spirit. And I have already passed judgment on the one who did this, just as if I were present. 4 When you are assembled in the name of our Lord Jesus and I am with you in spirit, and the power of our Lord Jesus is present, 5 hand this man over to Satan, so that the sinful nature may be destroyed and his spirit saved on the day of the Lord. NIV * * *

"and his spirit saved on the day of the Lord." It ain't a done deal σωθη/sothe the Greek word translated "saved" is a verb, aorist, passive, subjunctive. The subjunctive mood is the mood of possibility and potentiality. No where is it written that anyone will positively be saved simply by being turned over to Satan. It is possible but the person must repent etc.

 

[fli]

"and his spirit saved on the day of the Lord." It ain't a done deal σωθη/sothe the Greek word translated "saved" is a verb, aorist, passive, subjunctive. The subjunctive mood is the mood of possibility and potentiality. No where is it written that anyone will positively be saved simply by being turned over to Satan. It is possible but the person must repent etc.

As I've said before people can lose salvation.

Hebrews 12:7 Endure hardship as discipline; God is treating you as sons. For what son is not disciplined by his father? NIV

The Saints will persevere under discipline. They do not have to repent to endure, All they have to do is not lose hope in Jesus. If they do not repent God will keep disciplining till they die.

Here is another witness.

Matthew 13:24 Jesus told them another parable: "The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field. 25 But while everyone was sleeping, his enemy came and sowed weeds among the wheat, and went away. 26 When the wheat sprouted and formed heads, then the weeds also appeared. 27 "The owner's servants came to him and said, 'Sir, didn't you sow good seed in your field? Where then did the weeds come from?' 28 "'An enemy did this,' he replied. "The servants asked him, 'Do you want us to go and pull them up?' 29 "'No,' he answered, 'because while you are pulling the weeds, you may root up the wheat with them. 30 Let both grow together until the harvest. At that time I will tell the harvesters: First collect the weeds and tie them in bundles to be burned; then gather the wheat and bring it into my barn.'" NIV

A tare is a person claiming to be a Christian (wheat). In any church there will be wheat and tares. By the above God leaves the tares alone. God will not discipline Satan's children. He waits till the end and punishes them. If God does harm to a person in a church it is discipline and they are His son(s). If God kills them they were His to kill. God does not take tares out till the end of the age.

Revelation 2:18 "To the angel of the church in Thyatira write: ….............. 20 Nevertheless, I have this against you: You tolerate that woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess. By her teaching she misleads my servants into sexual immorality and the eating of food sacrificed to idols. 21 I have given her time to repent of her immorality, but she is unwilling. 22 So I will cast her on a bed of suffering, and I will make those who commit adultery with her suffer intensely, unless they repent of her ways. 23 I will strike her children dead. Then all the churches will know that I am he who searches hearts and minds, and I will repay each of you according to your deeds. 24 Now I say to the rest of you in Thyatira, to you who do not hold to her teaching and have not learned Satan's so-called deep secrets (I will not impose any other burden on you): 25 Only hold on to what you have until I come. NIV

The witness for those who commit adultery with Jezebel : one - Jesus calls them His servants. Tares are servants of Satan. By the wheat and tare parable they are wheat. Tares He would leave alone. If God kills someone in a body of believers they are wheat.

The discipline follows the same path as in Corinth. They would suffer then death if they did not repent. By verse 23 God considers discipline as payment for their deeds. Her children are those who hold to her teachings. God does not punish children for the sins of the parents,

If they died under discipline their wood, hay and straw would be burnt away and their souls would enter heaven.

All Christians sin while in Jesus. Some sins we are aware of and ask for God's forgiveness. Some sins we do not even realize that we commit. All of those are burnt off at death.

 

[Der Alte]

Twenty two categories of unrighteous people no inheritance in the kingdom of God.1. adulterers, 2. covetous, 3. drunkenness, 4. effeminate, 5. emulations, 6. envious, 7. extortion 8. fornication, 9. hatred, 10. heresies, 11. homosexuals, 12. idolators, 13. lasciviousness, 14. murder, 15. reveling, 16. revilers 17. sedition, 18. strife, 19. thieves, 20. uncleanness 21. witchcraft. 22. Wrath
1 Corinthians 6:9-10, Galatians 5:19-21, Ephesians 5:5, 1 Corinthians 3:17

1 Corinthians 6:9-10
9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: [no wrongdoer] neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
Galatians 5:19-21
19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
Ephesians 5:5 For this ye know, that [no wrongdoer] no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.
1 Corinthians 3:17
17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.​

 

[fli]

Twenty two categories of unrighteous people no inheritance in the kingdom of God.1. adulterers, 2. covetous, 3. drunkenness, 4. effeminate, 5. emulations, 6. envious, 7. extortion 8. fornication, 9. hatred, 10. heresies, 11. homosexuals, 12. idolators, 13. lasciviousness, 14. murder, 15. reveling, 16. revilers 17. sedition, 18. strife, 19. thieves, 20. uncleanness 21. witchcraft. 22. Wrath
1 Corinthians 6:9-10, Galatians 5:19-21, Ephesians 5:5, 1 Corinthians 3:17

1 Corinthians 6:9-10
9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: [no wrongdoer] neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
Galatians 5:19-21
19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
Ephesians 5:5 For this ye know, that [no wrongdoer] no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.
1 Corinthians 3:17
17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.​

Jesus has shed His blood for our sins. The price has been paid. As long as someone is in Jesus they do not sin. God does not impute sin them. Therefore all those scriptures do not apply to believers.You are making all the protests that those condemned to hell will make. To those who do not believe it seems unfair. To us it's grace and mercy.

Romans 10:4 Christ is the end of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes. NIV

Christ is the end of the law if someone believes in Him.

Romans 4:15 because law brings wrath. And where there is no law there is no transgression. NIV

Where there is no law there is no sin. If Christ is the end of the law for those who believe in Him. Since when there is no law there is no sin- believers cannot sin. God did not charge sin to those drunks in Cornith. God did not charge sin against His servants in Thyatira. He disciplined them as disobedient children. Since they were sinless when they died they went to heaven. In the same way if the young man, who was having sex with his stepmother, had died under discipline he would have been sinless at death. Therefore; he would also inherit the kingdom of God.

John 3:18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son. NIV

God has simplified judgment. If you believe in Jesus you get eternal life in heaven. All your sins are covered by the blood. If you do not believe in Jesus you go to hell for your sins. If you protest He opens the book and shows you the sins you have committed.

 

[Der Alte]

Jesus has shed His blood for our sins. The price has been paid. As long as someone is in Jesus they do not sin. God does not impute sin them. Therefore all those scriptures do not apply to believers.You are making all the protests that those condemned to hell will make. To those who do not believe it seems unfair. To us it's grace and mercy.
Romans 10:4 Christ is the end of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes. NIV
Christ is the end of the law if someone believes in Him.
Romans 4:15 because law brings wrath. And where there is no law there is no transgression. NIV
Where there is no law there is no sin. If Christ is the end of the law for those who believe in Him. Since when there is no law there is no sin- believers cannot sin. God did not charge sin to those drunks in Cornith. God did not charge sin against His servants in Thyatira. He disciplined them as disobedient children. Since they were sinless when they died they went to heaven. In the same way if the young man, who was having sex with his stepmother, had died under discipline he would have been sinless at death. Therefore; he would also inherit the kingdom of God.
John 3:18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son. NIV
God has simplified judgment. If you believe in Jesus you get eternal life in heaven. All your sins are covered by the blood. If you do not believe in Jesus you go to hell for your sins. If you protest He opens the book and shows you the sins you have committed.

Are you familiar with the term "preaching to the choir"? All true but does not really respond to my post.
My post was for those folks who are convinced that all mankind will be saved, the righteous with the unrighteous alike, no matter what. But as I have shown Paul listed 22 categories of pople will not inherit the kingdom of God.

 

[fli]

Are you familiar with the term "preaching to the choir"? All true but does not really respond to my post.
My post was for those folks who are convinced that all mankind will be saved, the righteous with the unrighteous alike, no matter what. But as I have shown Paul listed 22 categories of pople will not inherit the kingdom of God.

So you are not disputing the Corinthian drunks who died under discipline going to heaven? You are not disputing Jesus' servants in Thyatira who died under discipline being in heaven? If you agree with that then my answer was wrong. But if you still say that the drunks and servants in Thyatira did not inherit the kingdom of God then I can not give another answer. I agree that all those who are not in Jesus will be guilty of many sins, even some that are not listed, and will go to the lake of fire.

 

[Fervent]

He condemned people for being useless, for hurting others, for opposing the Gospel. But not for sinning.

Erm...what do you think sin is?