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Featured Who/what are the four horsemen of the apocalypse?

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by Quasar92, Jan 13, 2018.

  1. Quasar92

    Quasar92 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    The four horsemen of the apocalypse are described in Revelation chapter 6, verses 1-8. The four horsemen are symbolic descriptions of different events which will take place in the fulfillment of the 70th and final "Week" of God's decree upon the destiny of Israel, in Dan.9:27. Also known as the seven year Tribulation, Jacob's Trouble of Jer.30:7 and the Day of the Lord. Referred to by Jesus in His Olivet Discourse in Mt.24; Mk.13 and in Lk.21.

    The first horseman of the apocalypse is mentioned in Revelation 6:2, "I looked, and there before me was a white horse! Its rider held a bow, and he was given a crown, and he rode out as a conqueror bent on conquest." This first horseman refers to the antichrist, who will be given authority and will conquer all who oppose him. The antichrist is the false imitator of Jesus Christ, who will return on a white horse in His second coming to the earth (Revelation 19:11-16).The second horseman of the apocalypse is referred to in Revelation 6:4, "Then another horse came out, a fiery red one. Its rider was given power to take peace from the earth and to make men slay each other. To him was given a large sword." The second horseman refers to terrible warfare that will break out in the end times.

    The third horseman is described in Revelation 6:5-6, “...and there before me was a black horse! Its rider was holding a pair of scales in his hand. Then I heard what sounded like a voice among the four living creatures, saying, ‘A quart of wheat for a day's wages, and three quarts of barley for a day's wages, and do not damage the oil and the wine!’” The third horseman of the apocalypse refers to a great famine that will take place, as a result of the wars from the second horseman. Food will be scarce, but wine and oil will still be readily available.

    The fourth horseman is mentioned in Revelation 6:8, "I looked, and there before me was a pale horse! Its rider was named Death, and Hades was following close behind him. They were given power over a fourth of the earth to kill by sword, famine and plague, and by the wild beasts of the earth." The fourth horseman of the apocalypse is symbolic of death and devastation. The fourth horseman of the apocalypse will bring further warfare and devastating famines along with awful plagues and diseases.

    The last two horsemen of the apocalypse are precursors of the terrible judgments that come later in the final three and a half years of the seven year Tribulation, known as the Great Tribulation [Revelation chapters 8-9 and 16].


    Quasar92
     
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  2. TribulationSigns

    TribulationSigns Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Dispensationalism is a false gospel which you are deceived and proclaiming. I will response to your white horse nonsense here at this time since this is a long post.

    First, the 70th week is with Daniel's People and the Holy City. Daniel's people is not limited to the Jewish Elect of the Old or the Modern Nation of Israel. It is not the physical city of Jerusalem but Jerusalem which is from above. It is with all Elect in Christ. We are all God's Elect happen to be Daniel's people. The seventh week of Daniel is about God's salvation plan for His people, including Abel, Abraham, Noah, David, Daniel and Peter, John, and Paul and many Gentiles called by His Name. We all shall sit together:

    Mat 8:11-12
    [11] And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven.
    [12] But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

    It is not about the Israeli Jews only, but every chosen Elect from Old and New Testament. Period! But notice the PROFESSED children of the kingdom shall be cast into Lake of Fire. Point being, Daniel's people are the chosen Elect remnant coming from both old and new testament, while the majority of the congregation goes to hell.

    The Seventy week is not about the redemption of National Israel but God's Covenant Israel, Daniel's people! It started with Old Testament congregation, the Jews, and then it continued into the New Testament congregation, the Gentile Church. She is that woman in Revelation 12! Therefore, the final week was confirmed by Christ FOR His People, Covenant Israel. Not to be confused with National Israel. Not with Antichrist. Not with 7 years peace treaty/great tribulation.

    This is a pre-tribulation/Dispensationalism lie. Nowhere in Scripture that declares there will be seven years of great tribulation. Christ did not prophesy about national Israel in Olivet Discoure. Rather it is about New Testament congregation prior to Second Coming.

    The reason why you believe the white horse must be the Antichrist is that you surmise that the other horses are evil, therefore the white one is evil too. The truth of the symbolism is found only in COMPARING SCRIPTURE WITH SCRIPTURE. Not assumption like trying to comparing the image of a rider with the image of a beast.

    We have to have consistency throughout. Let's start by comparing the two riders. Does this rider in Revelation chapter six compare favorably to the "figures" of Satan that God inspires in scripture? The answer is No. Do they compare with the "figure" God inspires as representing Christ? The answer is Yes. Let's compare.

    Revelation 6:2
    • "And I saw, and behold a White Horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer."
    Revelation 19:11-12
    • "And I saw heaven opened, and behold a White Horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
    • His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
    They compare favorably. In fact, almost identically right down to His coming for warfare, and the crown symbolizing He rules. The question is, why would anyone (based upon what is written in Revelation 6:2) think that this rider on the white horse is someone different from the rider on the white horse in Revelation nineteen? There certainly is nothing (at all) in Revelation 6:2 that would lead us to believe He is a different rider. So where would we get the idea? ...I submit that it comes from man's own reasoning and teachings, rather than what is actually written there.

    First consideration. Satan's strength is NEVER symbolized by the color white. And the horses are the symbol of the rider's strength. When you mount an army (in those days) your strength was measured by your number of horsemen. Horsemen gave you the advantage of strength in war. And colors (like numbers) carry great spiritual significance. White 'unquestionably' symbolizes purity or righteousness. For example, the great white throne, the white stone, the clean white robes given the elect, the white cloud that the son of man sat on, the hair white like wool, etc., etc. And here, the "White" horse is in that very same vein of symbols found in the rest of the book of Revelation.

    Horse = Strength of battle
    White = Righteousness
    Horseman on white horse = He who comes in strength of Righteous for warfare.

    = Christ!

    Christ judges and makes war in righteousness. Satan does not! This color white is not "incidental" in revelation, it is in harmony with the symbolism in revelation. This is no small matter to be cast aside as insignificant (as you do). Because interpretations come from comparing scripture with scripture, and that is "extremely" important. Why would God use white to symbolize the rider coming in righteousness in one book of Revelation, and then assign that color to Satan's horse? He's not coming in the strength of righteousness. It makes no sense. Some say because he is a false prophet, but God doesn't need to assign the color white to a horse to show false prophecy. A White horse doesn't symbolize false prophecy, it symbolizes riding in truth, purity, cleanness, and righteousness. Period! We have our two identifiers. The horseman symbolizing He comes in strength (Job 39:19; Isaiah 31:1; Psalm 33:17; Psalm 147:10) of warfare, and color of the horse being white to symbolize He comes in righteous warfare and judgment. Just as Revelation 19 also so clearly illustrates. And as all of Revelation postulates:

    Revelation 16:7
    • "And I heard another out of the altar say, Even so, Lord God Almighty, true and righteous are thy judgments."
    Christ comes in righteous judgments and the white horse in Revelation chapter six symbolizes righteousness, just as Revelation nineteen does! They are synonymous with each other, the very same symbolism. It is inconsistent for us to say that the White Horse in Revelation chapter six symbolizes Satan or your antichrist, and then claim the white horse in Revelation chapter nineteen does not. That it switches and now symbolizes Christ. Where is the logic for such an abrupt change? They are both actual white horses! Not, "Looks like," "as if", "appears like." If there is one thing I have learned in my study of the scriptures, it is that "inconsistency is the hallmark of error," and is almost always the vehicle of every wrong interpretation. For example, you can't have the Candlesticks in Revelation 2 symbolize the Church, and then turn around in Revelation chapter 11 and claim that two candlesticks now represents two physical men who will come and witness. Absurd! This is not the way to rightly divide the word of truth. Consistency is paramount, and God declares that it is in "Righteousness" that this rider on the white horse goes forth to judge and make war. Again, total agreement and harmony with the horse (symbolizing strength of battle) being white.

    Now, in Revelation chapter 19 we see this rider has many crowns (illustrating He is King of Kings and rules over many nations). And in Revelation 6 when the seal is loosed we see this rider is given a kingdom (symbolized by the crown). Again, total agreement with Christ going forth in righteousness. Christ was crowned king of kings and Lord of lords by his meritorious work and suffering on the cross. He established His kingdom by that suffering and death. ..to this end was He born.

    Hebrews 2:9
    • "But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man."
    Matthew 27:29
    • "And when they had platted a crown of thorns, they put it upon his head, and a reed in his right hand: and they bowed the knee before him, and mocked him, saying, Hail, King of the Jews!"
    So mock as they would, the truth is, Jesus was indeed crowned King of the Jews by this meritorious work on the cross. He was given a crown that He did "establish" this kingdom by this work! This is how Christ has confirmed a covenant with His kingdom in Daniel 9:27. And so again, we have complete and total harmony with the figure being representative of Christ given a crown, and not Satan, nor antichirst. Satan hardly rides forth on the vehicle of righteousness (white horse) that he goes forth "both" conquering (overcoming) and to conquer (overcome). This can only be Christ who rides thusly. He is this warrior crowned King and we are his army on white horses who are in battle in this spiritual warfare with Him.

    Revelation 17:14
    • "These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful."
    Revelation 12:11
    • "And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death."
    The symbolism of this warfare which Christ goes forth conquering and to conquer permeates all throughout scripture. He went forth spoiling people from the kingdom of Darkness through the New Testament Church!

    Notice also that He has a bow in Revelation chapter six. Many have postulated that this proves that this is not Christ because Christ doesn't have a bow in revelation chapter nineteen. Really?! Someone also told me, "..See Christ has no sword in Revelation chapter 6, so that proves it's not Christ." But this is all a self-serving exegesis. Such interpretations are easily debunked. For example, Christ has hair which is white like wool in Revelation chapter one, but it isn't mentioned in Revelation nineteen. Does that mean that Christ in Revelation chapter one is not Christ in revelation nineteen? Of course not! That would be a nonsensical way of interpreting like Quasar often did. True interpretations come from comparing scripture with scripture in the light of the "Whole" Bible. Doing that is the only way to come to the real truth. So let's do are the more noble Bereans and search the scriptures to see if these things are true. Where else do we see this horseman riding with this bow? Is it an image of Satan or Christ? Consider wisely:

    Psalms 7:11-13
    • "God judgeth the righteous, and God is angry with the wicked every day.
    • If he turn not, he will whet his sword; he hath bent his Bow, and made it ready.
    • He hath also prepared for him the instruments of death; he ordaineth his arrows against the persecutors."
    See? Here is the Lord pictured with His bow and His arrows and coming in judgment (Revelation 6), and His whet sword (Revelation 19). These symbolisms in Revelation are not an untraditional teaching, it is a teaching as old as the scriptures themselves! Not according to the teaching of Walvoord or Thomas Ice! Interpretations belong to God. Period! When we see Christ riding in Revelation chapter six in righteousness with a bow, it "Should" send us right to the Psalms where we unambiguously see the very same spiritual pictures. ..and He who hath an ear, let him hear.

    Psalms 45:3-7
    • "Gird thy sword upon thy thigh, O most mighty, with thy glory and thy majesty.
    • And in thy majesty ride prosperously because of truth and meekness and righteousness; and thy right hand shall teach thee terrible things.
    • Thine arrows are sharp in the heart of the king's enemies; whereby the people fall under thee.
    • Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: the sceptre of thy kingdom is a right sceptre.
    • Thou lovest righteousness, and hatest wickedness: therefore God, thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows."
    Who is this horseman with a bow, who rides a horse in righteousness? Is it Satan? NO! It is Christ that has been anointed King, been given a crown, is riding prosperously with this bow in "Righteousness" to judge and make war. How much clearer can it get? Moreover, God confirms the fulfillment of this prophecy of Christ in Hebrews as He quotes this of Jesus.

    Hebrews 1:8
    • "But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom."
    Taken directly from that Psalm!. Clearly, the idea that the rider in Revelation 6:2 cannot be Christ because He has a bow is nonsensical, and because He has no sword is also shown to be untenable. Here in Psalms 45 we see this rider Christ has both sword and bow and goes forth riding prosperiously conquering and to conquer. And He has been given a crown.

    Luke 1:32-33
    • "He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:
    • And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end."
    Indeed He is given a crown, and indeed He does go forth conquering and to conquer. In Revelation chapter six the crown given the rider in righteousness is no contradiction to Revelation nineteen. Satan may go forth and conquer, but Christ is the only one who goes forth Conquering and to Conquer. In other words, overcoming and to overcome! Prevailing and to Prevail! Satan doesn't qualify! Never was! Satan may overcome temporarily, but not to overcome nor conquer ultimately.

    The white horse is the strength of Christ's warfare, whereupon he rides when he goes to conquer and subdue new converts and translate them into his kingdom. He comes in the strength of His majesty, truth, meekness, and righteousness, which are made known in the preaching of his gospel. He goes forth tearing down strongholds, that the gates of hell cannot stand against him. He frees the prisoners therein. A spiritual warfare where we are either an army with Christ, or an army against him.

    Luke 11:21-23p
    • "When a strong man armed keepeth his palace, his goods are in peace:
    • But when a stronger than he shall come upon him, and overcome him, he taketh from him all his armour wherein he trusted, and divideth his spoils.
    • He that is not with me is against me: and he that gathereth not with me scattereth."
    The gates of Hell shall not prevail against Christ. He is that white horse that shall break down those gates, free the prisoners, and build His Church and He has been doing it since Pentecost until the fulness of the Gentiles be coming in!

    There is no mention anywhere of Satan going forth righteously riding on a white horse, conquering and to conquer.

    I will deal with the reminding horsemen of the apocalypse at latter time. And I will testify that Quasar's interpretations on these last three horsemen are as wrong as the one for his White Horse.
     
  3. 1am3laine

    1am3laine Active Member

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    You should listen to endtime.com because Irvin Baxter does a breakdown of the Apocalypse.
    He is also on youtube.
     
  4. TribulationSigns

    TribulationSigns Well-Known Member Supporter

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    The endtime is one of many Dispensationalism religious interpretive websites held by many false prophets and christs that believes God's prophecies can be interpreted by the world news, rather comparing Scripture with Scripture.

    And as for Irvin Baxter, he is affiliated with the United Pentecostal Church that does not believe in Godhead (Trinity). He is one of many false prophets that Christ warned about:

    Matthew 24:11, “And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.”

    Mark 13:22: “For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.”
     
  5. A71

    A71 Well-Known Member

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    We need to go back to Zechariah to understand them. In Zechariah 1 we see them presented at the same time Daniel's 490 years, (70 weeks), commences.

    Each horse represents a period of 490 years, starting in AD70. The first is the Roman Empire, the second Islam, the third the Catholic Church, the fourth the Jesuit movement.

    All are entities that directly control the fates of the diaspora Jews.

    They are also depicted as 4 horns:

    21 Then said I, What come these to do? And he spake, saying, These are the horns which have scattered Judah
     
  6. Quasar92

    Quasar92 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Did you read the OP?


    Quasar92
     
  7. TribulationSigns

    TribulationSigns Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Doesn't matter. Both you and Irvin Baxter have something in common. Private interpretation of a passage based on what you read in the news. Not comparing Scripture with Scripture:

    For example, Irvin Baxter believe:
    1. The White Horsethe spirit of Catholicism. The Pope has white robes, a white car, a white pope mobile, a white helicopter, and a white airplane.
    2. The Red Horsethe spirit of communism. The recognized color of Communism is red; red Russia, red China. The rider of this horse has a great sword. Russia and China are mighty military powers.
    3. The Black Horsethe spirit of capitalism. The recognized color of capitalism is black. The black horse goes into the “north country” (Zechariah 6:6). Almost all capitalist countries are in the northern hemisphere.
    4. The Pale (chloros or green) Horse the spirit of Islam. Death and Hell followed. The recognized color of Islam is green. The pale horse is given power over one-fourth of the earth. One-fourth of the world’s population is Muslim. Islam clearly promotes a culture of death.
    Purely man-made interpretation! This is NOT how God defined the color in Scripture! And as for you, you believe that the white horse must be the antichrist, whoever he may be, out of Europe. And your forefather and brethren of the pre-trib Dispensationalism have a long history of many many many false predictions on naming someone qualified to be the white horse other than Jesus Christ, Himself. Sad!
     
  8. Quasar92

    Quasar92 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Where are the Scriptures to support your above views. Allegorical spiritualizing the prophetic Scriptures is a complete failure.

    FYI, the views I have posted come directly from Jesus Olivet Discourse in Mt.24; Mk.13; Lk.21 and also from Rev.6.



    Qusar92
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2018
  9. A71

    A71 Well-Known Member

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    Where in the Temple Prophecy Quasar?
     
  10. TribulationSigns

    TribulationSigns Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Forgot your glasses or something? Read my post again with Scripture provided. I am sorry if you hate the term "allegorical," "symbolic", "metaphors," etc. but that is not my problem. It's your heart problem - the inability to receive the truth, just like the "qualified" scribes and pharaisees of old.


    FYI, NOT if you have private interpreted these verses to fit your doctrines. You rarely compare Scripture with Scripture and allows it to be its own interpreter instead of selling lies of your teachers.
     
  11. A71

    A71 Well-Known Member

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    @TribulationSigns

    Baxter may be wrong but he is on the right track.
    The 4 horsemen are also depicted as 4 horns, (which means an earthly power), and 4 artificers (artificers of destruction). The white horse rider is most certainly not Christ.
    I have given a clear explanation above of who they are
     
  12. TribulationSigns

    TribulationSigns Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Really?

    Oh please. Show me the chapter and verse where God has DEFINED the four horns as four horsemen!

    Well, that is too bad because I can assure you that you have not been enlightened by the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
     
  13. A71

    A71 Well-Known Member

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    No, I am not interested in educating sarcastic ingrates. Go away and learn some manners if you want me to teach you.
     
  14. TribulationSigns

    TribulationSigns Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I take this as a message that you could not be able to provide me a scripture where God has defined four horns as four horsemen. I do not need you to teach me because I KNOW there is no such Scripture that supports your position. I am testing you to see if you could do your homework and prove me wrong with a Scripture that actually confirms what you claimed. I hope you know what biblical exegesis means, don't you? Scripture interprets Scripture. Not private interpretation like you wrote:

    "The 4 horsemen are also depicted as 4 horns, (which means an earthly power), and 4 artificers (artificers of destruction)"

    Says who? You or God? If it is from God, I want the verses to see what you said is true. Biblical exegesis!
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2018
  15. A71

    A71 Well-Known Member

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    Lol. Your assumptions are not reasonable, but your questions are.
    I'll work on a reply, but I don't generally talk about Revelation, so may of course retract everything.
     
  16. A71

    A71 Well-Known Member

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    The purpose of a horse and horseman is to go out and establish peace. See 1 Kings 9:17 and Zechariah 1.

    That there are 4 horsemen indicates a period without peace, as each horseman is violent, and each succeeds a previous violent one.
     
  17. A71

    A71 Well-Known Member

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    Anyhow, the first debate / problem that we can easily resolve is those who claim the rider is Christ. The first horse is a conquering horse, a victorious horse, (Greek - Nikeo), but the horse is a symbol of military power, not spiritual power, and this can in no way be Christ or the Church.

    Psalm 33:17 The war horse is a vain hope for victory,
    and by its great might it cannot save.


    It actually represents the Roman Empire, which was synonymous with victory.

    We are presented with 4 warhorses which we need to identify correctly.
     
  18. Another Lazarus

    Another Lazarus Old Newbie

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    Luke 21:35 For it will come like a snare on all those who dwell on the surface of all the earth

    Rev 3:10 10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.
     
  19. Quasar92

    Quasar92 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Is this what you are asking for?

    THERE WILL BE TWO MORE TEMPLES BUILT IN ISRAEL

    The tribulation temple:
    Matthew 24:15 - When you see the “abomination of desolation,” spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place…
    2 Thessalonians 2:4 - "...so that he sets himself up in God's temple, proclaiming himself to be God"
    Revelation 11:1 - "...Go and measure the temple of God and the alter..."

    The Millennial temple:

    Ezekiel 43:7 - "...this is the place of my throne...This is where I will live among the Israelites forever."

    Ezekiel 43:27 - …your priests will your burnt offerings and peace offerings on the altar, and I will accept you, declares the Lord.

    Zechariah 6:12 - Here is the Man whose name is the Branch, and he will…build the temple of the Lord.
    At the present time there is no temple on the Temple Mount in Jerusalem,
    the location of both the first and second Jewish Temples. Instead, two
    Muslim shrines, The Dome of the Rock and the Al Aqsa Mosque, stand on
    the Temple Mount. Meantime, the Jewish people to consider the Temple
    Mount to be the most sacred place for Jews in all the world. No wonder
    the Temple Mount is a political powder keg and must be part of any
    formula for peace in the Middle East!

    According to the Bible, a temple will once again stand on the Temple
    Mount. How and when the Temple Mount will be available for a future
    temple remains to be seen. Biblical prophecy “buffs” have proposed all
    kinds of potential scenarios for how all of this could take
    place—everything from earthquakes to explosives to the collapse of the
    Temple Mount platform!

    Some well-meaning Christians have felt that the biblical predictions of a
    future Temple should be spiritualized, saying that these prophecies
    refer to the Church or to the individual Christian. Indeed, 1
    Corinthians 3:16 makes it quite clear that the Church, as the body of
    Christ, is the spiritual temple of the Holy Spirit. And in 1 Corinthians
    6:19 we are taught that the physical body of every individual believer
    is to be honored and kept clean, because it is the temple of the Holy
    Spirit. But these wonderful New Testament truths do not alter the
    biblical predictions of a literal future Temple in Jerusalem.

    The question of a future Temple gets more complicated when we realize
    that the Bible teaches that two temples are yet to stand on the Temple
    Mount in the future. First will come a Tribulation Temple, followed by a
    Millennium Temple which will be built when the Lord returns and sets up
    His kingdom on this earth. Let's look at the Scriptures dealing with
    these two future temples.


    Here: Israel's Third and Fourth Temples

    Here: http://sonstoglory.com/ThirdTempleEzeki ... Temple.htm [No tribulation temple shown]


    Quasar92
     
  20. Revealing Times

    Revealing Times Well-Known Member

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    He sounds pretty good but then he goes off the rails in quite a few places. He think the United States is the Eagle, which is nonsense. He has some rather strange ideas that a lay person could get hoodwinked on.
     
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