Who really cares what the ECF's had to say?

[Rick Otto]

If you read the whole passage ... I wonder if .... So, the scripture was read ...
Second, I am sure it does not say .... Further more...
Also... I do not think...

Uncomfortable?
You're question was:
Originally Posted by Philothei Show me that the first century Christians were reading the Old Testament.... I would be curious to see that....

So I showed it to you.
You're welcome.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Yes

the mystery Paul mentions, that is now revealed

The Scriptures are just simply awsome. Jonah is mentioned by JESUS in the Gospels concerning His "resurrection" and note in Jonah 3:1 where he is vomited out of the whale. I can view that as either Pentecost or Paul. I have a study on this.

http://www.scripture4all.org/

Jonah 3:1 And a word of YHWH is becoming unto Jonah, a second-time, to say, 2 `Rise! go! to Niyn@veh, the city, the great and call to her, the call which I am speaking to thee;'

Matt 12:41 `Men Ninevites shall be resurrecting/ana-sthsontai <450> (5698) in the judging with the generation/geneaV <1074>, this, and they shall be condemning it/her that they repent/reform into the proclamation of Jonah and Lo! more of Jonah here.

Acts 9:15 Said yet toward him, the Lord , `Be you going!, that a vessel of choice is to Me this one, of the to bear the Name of Me in sight of nations and kings--sons besides of Israel;

 

[Thekla]

The Scriptures are just simply awsome. Jonah is mentioned by JESUS in the Gospels concerning His "resurrection" and note in Jonah 3:1 where he is vomited out of the whale. I can view that as either Pentecost or Paul. I have a study on this.

http://www.scripture4all.org/

Jonah 3:1 And a word of YHWH is becoming unto Jonah, a second-time, to say, 2 `Rise! go! to Niyn@veh, the city, the great and call to her, the call which I am speaking to thee;'

Matt 12:41 `Men Ninevites shall be resurrecting/ana-sthsontai <450> (5698) in the judging with the generation/geneaV <1074>, this, and they shall be condemning it/her that they repent/reform into the proclamation of Jonah and Lo! more of Jonah here.

Acts 9:15 Said yet toward him, the Lord , `Be you going!, that a vessel of choice is to Me this one, of the to bear the Name of Me in sight of nations and kings--sons besides of Israel;

it is the calling of all to some extent (imo); it is also considered a "typos" of the resurrection

so, after being washed and born from above - we also evangelize in the particular ways we are called to

 

[Philothei]

Uncomfortable?
You're question was:
Originally Posted by Philothei Show me that the first century Christians were reading the Old Testament.... I would be curious to see that....

So I showed it to you.
You're welcome.

Thank you very much for showing this to me.. Still though does not say that All Christians did just a community. It was not the standard... for all Christians. I am sorry that did not establish your argument that Christians were "reading the Old Testament" premise.... ...Some...Chrisitans maybe but it does not establish presidence...

 

[Thekla]

the Galatians (Celts) had scrolls in the home - whoah !

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

it is the calling of all to some extent (imo); it is also considered a "typos" of the resurrection

so, after being washed and born from above - we also evangelize in the particular ways we are called to

I agree. And with that, I bow out [again LOL]

Matt 24:22 And if no was shortened/ekolobwqhsan <2856> (5681) the days, those, not ever was saved all flesh. Because of yet the elect-chosen/eklektouV <1588>, shall be being shortened/kolobwqhsontai <2856> (5701) the days, those.

Reve 17:14 These with the lamb-kin shall be battling, and the lamb-kin shall be conquering them. That Lord of Lords He is, and King of Kings. And the-ones with Him called-ones/klhtoi <2822> and chosen-ones/eklektoi <1588> and faithful-ones

 

[Rick Otto]

quote=Philothei;Thank you very much for showing this to me.. Still though does not say that All Christians did just a community.

You didn't ask about "all Christians".

It was not the standard... for all Christians.

Obviously not, or Paul woudn't have described them as "more noble" which establishes both standard & practice.

I am sorry that did not establish your argument that Christians were "reading the Old Testament" premise....

I didn't premise anything, I just showed you what you asked to see -1st Century Christians reading the OT.

...Some...Chrisitans maybe but it does not establish presidence

You mean precedent?
Does it not establish that in Paul's humble opinion, searching the scriptures to verify spiritual truths is more noble than not doing so?

 

[Philothei]

No it does not as in the New Testament we do not see more examples.

"noble" is and adjective that could be atributed to other things... Does not set any standards....or it would have said that that community was "exceptional" even so... I am sure if you look in the other churches they established they used similar epithets.. If you want to further inverstigate I will have more time later... It still is a very weak point Mr. Rick Otto... or the Bible would have "classified" other communities as less..."noble" because they did not "read the scripture" ....It sounds to me like a wild goose chase....

 

[simonthezealot]

5. he preaches to the Jews (not gentiles)
8. Only then, after the ratification, does he begin evangelizing the Gentiles.

Additionally, my post was in response to your concern on "ratification" -- this is what I am exhibiting in the passage -- ratification. "It seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us."

Evangelism is being carried out by leitourgists - I am not arguing that they were not already called, only I am showing ratification.

That was a matter of direction by the Holy Spirit for preaching.

What Philo seem to try to suggest was ratifying meaning having an exact opposite view on the scriptural issue of image veneration as the HS through counsil making ratification to Himself...forbidding then approving...

 

[Thekla]

You didn't ask about "all Christians".

Obviously not, or Paul woudn't have described them as "more noble" which establishes both standard & practice.

I didn't premise anything, I just showed you what you asked to see -1st Century Christians reading the OT.


You mean precedent?
Does it not establish that in Paul's humble opinion, searching the scriptures to verify spiritual truths is more noble than not doing so?

just to reiterate the previous post to Simon, they received in eagerness what Paul preached and then searched; others in Thessalonika had the opposite response to his preaching and made a ruckus. Searching the scriptures to confirm what one has eagerly received is but one example of eagerness.


I do think, again, that when using generalized terms like "first century Christians", for the sake of clear discussion the meaning should be narrowed before proceeding - otherwise the discussion gets "muddied".

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

just to reiterate the previous post to Simon, they received in eagerness what Paul preached and then searched; others in Thessalonika had the opposite response to his preaching and made a ruckus. Searching the scriptures to confirm what one has eagerly received is but one example of eagerness.


I do think, again, that when using generalized terms like "first century Christians", for the sake of clear discussion the meaning should be narrowed before proceeding - otherwise the discussion gets "muddied".

Greetings Thekla. Could I get your view over here on this thread? Thanks.

http://christianforums.com/showthread.php?t=7265052&page=4
The Greek word for Clement in Phil 4:3

Phili 4:3 Yea I am asking also thee together-yoke! genuine! be thou helping them who-any in the Well-Message together-complete to-me with also/and clement/klh-mentoV <2815> and of the rests together-workers of me of whom the names in scroll of life.

Luke 4:5 And up-leading Him, he shows to Him all the Kingdoms of the being-homed/oikou-menhV <3625> in prick of time.

oikoumenhV <3625> Luke 4:5, Romans 10:18, Reve 3:10, Reve 16:14.

3625. oikoumene oy-kou-men'-ay feminine participle present passive of 3611 (as noun, by implication, of 1093); land, i.e. the (terrene part of the) globe; specially, the Roman empire:--earth, world.
3624. oikos oy'-kos of uncertain affinity; a dwelling (more or less extensive, literal or figurative); by implication, a family (more or less related, literally or figuratively):--home, house(-hold), temple.
3306. meno men'-o a primary verb; to stay (in a given place, state, relation or expectancy):--abide, continue, dwell, endure, be present, remain, stand, tarry (for), X thine own.

 

[Thekla]

That was a matter of direction by the Holy Spirit for preaching.

What Philo seem to try to suggest was ratifying meaning having an exact opposite view on the scriptural issue of image veneration as the HS through counsil making ratification to Himself...forbidding then approving...

Acts 9-13 is still an example of ratification, though.

As for the second issue, not to my reading. For example, some were requiring circumcision; we are not told, "the Holy Spirit told them not to but they did it anyway". Instead, there was a practice - its "acceptance by some" is found in its practice -- and this was overturned by a subsequent gathering. Not every gathering is "aright", but must be ratified. And remember, only through the passage of time between Councils can the laity also "ratify" -- it is the Church as a whole (EO does not have a magesterium).

if you study the history of the particular council that was overturned, you will find that it was an attempt at "Islamicising" the Church -- but that is not a matter for this thread

 

[Philothei]

What Philo seem to try to suggest was ratifying meaning having an exact opposite view on the scriptural issue of image veneration as the HS through counsil making ratification to Himself...forbidding then approving...

What you fail to realize is that the Holy Spirit is not the one that radifies people do.. with its guidance. Yes, people do fail in their assumptions and that is evident why "sola scriptura" fails... What is taking place from one council to another is not that they are infallable (some actually were flat out wrong) but that the Holy Spirit allows for that to take place... because it is what we are taught through the Apostolic tradition... That the consciousness of the Churh is what safeguards it. The Holy Spirit is the overseer not the guarantor for not falling into heressy... And yet when heresy takes place the whole Church can "survive" the loses and go on the straight path because of the power of the Holy Spirit... Does this makes any sense to you?
The assembly of the Apostoles was the place that the Holy Spirit came ... or did not?? Similarly the assembly of the Church's hierarchy gathers up to allow the Holy Spirit to guide its Church...

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

How come the Catholics aren't here?

 

[Philothei]

Philo

Please do not call me Philo... My name is Philothei that has a different meaning than Philo. And you can talk to me about me...

 

[Philothei]

How come the Catholics aren't here?

Yet another off topic post... ...
Like we are not enough for you LLOJ

 

[Philothei]

if you you think the first Chrisitans ONLY used the the Old Testament please substantiate.

still no answer to that Rick Otto... or SimontheZealot I am still waiting to prove this...

You said "more noble" communities did... If we agree with that then at best would mean that other..."less noble" communities did not use the scripture... Which would make sens historically since not all Christians were ex-Jews... thus they did not have access to the Old testament... like Thekla said the Galatians, Greeks etc... who did not have "synagoges" to meet...

Second point also is that even if they used scripture ....they were not all Christians the Judaisers used Scripture to disrpove Christ and the Apostles ...further we see that usage of scripture does not "made a community noble" rather the message of Christ did... Thus the verses about "more noble" is not directed to their usage in scripture rather it is attribute to their "presiverance" in using the scripture according to the message of the kerygma of Christ.

 

[Gwendolyn]

How come the Catholics aren't here?

Probably because we agree almost completely with what our Orthodox brothers and sisters are saying, and we don't have much, if anything, to add.

 

[simonthezealot]

still no answer to that Otto... or Zealot I am still waiting to prove this...

I never suggested that, I've been round long enough to know enoch among others where quoted...

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Probably because we agree almost completely with what our Orthodox brothers and sisters are saying, and we don't have much, if anything, to add.

So you agree with the Catholics on that "great city" in Revelation being pagan rome?

Luke 19:41 And as He nears, beholding the City and He laments on Her,

Matt 7:27 And descended the rains and the streams and blow the winds and they toward-strike the house, that, and she falls/epesen <4098> (5627) and was the fall of her Great.

Reve 14:8 And another messenger, second-one, follows saying "she falls/epesen <4098> (5627), she falls, Babylon the Great, the out of the wine of the fury of the fornication of her she has given to drink all the nations. [Jeremiah 51:8]

http://christianforums.com/showthread.php?t=7164949&page=2
DO NOT WEEP!!!!! The Great City