Who is the real threat? Children pushed to suicide

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CreedIsChrist

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There are policies in place. The mother called the school. Teachers even knew of it. No one did anything.

Yes, all bullying should be addressed. It's just that gay kids are often the target. What message does it said a boy who takes home the pledge, his parents say that he does not have to sign it, and are against it?

You think we are looking for a foothold. Kids are being pushed into suicide. Kids. An 11 yr old. And everyone else is the victim? What leverage do I think we should get? Go to school without feeling threatened? Not be harassed? Not use Christianity as a lame excuse to mistreat others, even perceived homosexuality?

Should there be a slant on gay kids? This is the 4th kid this year who committed suicide for homophobic harassment, so, yeah, probably. When asked if the boy was gay, the mother said she never asked. He was 11. However, others perceived him as gay, and that was enough. It's not about the boy, but the others who are being raised to think bullying gay or effeminate kids are ok, and it's not the school where they are learning that


Oh really, its not the school where they learn that?? Kids learn it from other kids in school because of immaturity. They also learn it from the sexualized and violent media. Also, from one resource I had read, bullies tend to come from a higher rate of divorced/broken homes that has abuse in them.

The schools need to address the teachers and principles on better methods to deal with this. Were Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold gay?? For instance , there would be a huge reduction in bullying if there was a verbal code and harassment clause in their system, one that would have consequences like detention, and then suspension or expulsion for repeat offenses. The news reel didn't even say if this child was gay, but rather was made fun of because he acted effeminate. Which goes back to the classic case of the more powerful picking on who they view as weaker.

When I was in school, all the kids I knew who got picked on were not Gay, but were simply being made fun of because of being quiet or simply being in the wrong place at the wrong time and being the brunt of it.

Bullying is not a LGBT issue. Some children just unfortunately end up in a school that is just not for them and don't get along with the other kids. While in another school they may have no problems at all. It is mostly a bigger problem in public secular schools, especially that are inner-city because children are more exposed to the harsher elements that they should not be around and have worse family conditions.


I just can't help but see this as an attempt by the LGBT community to use this boys death as a tool. They way they EXHAUSTED the Matthew Shepard case. I have no problems getting to the issue of bullying, but like I said, putting a LGBT slant on it shows a propaganda issue and an attempt to get leverage in the schools.
 
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lawtonfogle

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You're talking about those who hope and pray that their god will come back soon to earth to commit glorious genocide against his (their) hapless human enemies. Do you really expect them to act like compassionate human beings under these presumptions of theirs?

If there eyes are opened... then yes. But opening them may very well in itself be an immoral act, for the pain it could, should, cause them would be vast.
 
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Flibbertigibbet

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I don't see this as an issue for the LGBT community over and above all others. Even when I was in elementary school many, many years ago, for boys being called "gay" was a taunting insult meant to make them feel they were "less than" and not "normal" boys (i.e. not tough enough, tall enough, muscled enough, etc.). This still holds true today. It is more focused on those characteristics, and on being different, than it is on any real perception of sexual orientation.

I was horrified by the recent suicides of these 2 young boys. I have a 12 year old who has been consistently bullied and had the same taunts thrown at him over the past 2 1/2 years since we moved to a new school district.

I saw the reports on Thursday night - the day before an already scheduled meeting at the school. I'm happy to report that after 2 years of nothing being done about the bullying, they are taking a more proactive stance. They have asked my son for the names of those who have bullied him and are ensuring that on next year's schedule they will share no classes at all.

While it is true that a lot of children go through teasing and some amount of bullying, most of us have never experienced what it feels like to be a true outcast among our peers.

I would never tolerate my child being cruel or taunting another child in this manner. That would be truly un-Christlike behavior.
 
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lawtonfogle

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Most adoption agencies want the best for the child going into an adopted home, and want a normal transaction. usually that child comes from a male-female relationship.
And they want to make the transition as easy as possible.
But when there are more kids than couples adopting, is it a question of the best home for the kid, or a home which is good enough? Do we let child predators adopt? No, they have proven to be extremely harmful. Do we let homosexuals adopt? Well, even IF they are not the best, they are not harmful, and they provide a home. It not a question of the straight parents or the gay parents, but of the gay parents or no parents.
Many straight people don't think the subject of sexuality is a necessary topic for a 6 year old. And for some reason they are talking about it in kindergarten now. Before all this Sex ed was saved till like 7th-8th grade, when kids were mature.
Back in the day, when kids waited till the 9th+ grade to start having sex, teaching sex ed in the 7th-8th was good enough. This is no longer true.
 
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lawtonfogle

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There's sex-ed in K now? Where is this happening?

I'm guessing she is talking about "Boys have peepees, girls don't, this difference is why we wear clothes."

Really though, I think saying this is a good thing, I remember back when I was in kinder garden trying to figure out why we wore clothes. If someone has just told me...
 
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JGG

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My best friend growing up was gay, and when we were 17, Scott was outed by our preacher who called him an "evil perversion of humanity" in front of the congregation, and he was forced from the church. His father kicked him out of the house within a week, and before the next Sunday Scott had stepped off the 8th floor barrier of a parking garage.

After he was buried, our preacher literally danced on his grave. He wasn't just bullied by his peers, he was bullied by his church, and his own father, all the while invoking the name of their righteous God.
 
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CreedIsChrist

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No, but they were also not bullied but rather the bullies. Rather Harris was a predatory psychopath.


please, Eric Harris and Klebold were bullied. They pretty much dreamed about getting back at the popular jocks and who they viewed as stuck up. Kids who get bullied tend to want to get revenge later on, and Harris and Klebold simply took their grandiose revenge fantasies to reality
 
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Maren

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please, Eric Harris and Klebold were bullied. They pretty much dreamed about getting back at the popular jocks and who they viewed as stuck up. Kids who get bullied tend to want to get revenge later on, and Harris and Klebold simply took their grandiose revenge fantasies to reality

Please read the article I linked. While the initial story spoke of them being bullied, it turned out not to be true at all. Rather "Columbine myths emerged before the shooting stopped, as rumors, misunderstandings and wishful thinking swirled in an echo chamber among witnesses, survivors, officials and the news media." Further, "the record now shows Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold hadn't been bullied — in fact, they had bragged in diaries about picking on freshmen and [gays]." (I replaced the word that is used in the diary since it triggers the profanity filter) They were in fact the bullies and not the ones being bullied.

In fact,
county officials took five years just to acknowledge that they had met in secret after the attacks to discuss a 1998 affidavit for a search warrant on Harris' home — it was the result of a complaint against him by the mother of a former friend. Harris had threatened her son on his website and bragged that he had been building bombs. Police already had found a small bomb matching Harris' description near his home — but investigators never presented the affidavit to a judge.
They also apparently didn't know that Harris and Klebold were on probation after having been arrested in January 1998 for breaking into a van and stealing electronics.
The search finally took place, but only after the shootings.
The attack had nothing to do with being bullied but rather two kids who wanted fame, thinking that "Getting attention by becoming notorious is better than being a failure."
 
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Jade Margery

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I don't see this as an issue for the LGBT community over and above all others. Even when I was in elementary school many, many years ago, for boys being called "gay" was a taunting insult meant to make them feel they were "less than" and not "normal" boys (i.e. not tough enough, tall enough, muscled enough, etc.). This still holds true today. It is more focused on those characteristics, and on being different, than it is on any real perception of sexual orientation.

I think it is reasonable for a community to be concerned when their own descriptions are being used for slurs and harassment capable of driving a kid to suicide. How would you, for instance, feel if instead of calling the kid gay, they were yelling 'Christian' or 'Christ-lover' or 'Bible-beater'? How would you feel if the words you used to describe yourself and your religion were twisted into insults and used to hurt other people? Would you feel like it was an issue for your community to address, even if the slurs were focused more on being different, rather than on any real perception of religious affiliation?
 
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Flibbertigibbet

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I think it is reasonable for a community to be concerned when their own descriptions are being used for slurs and harassment capable of driving a kid to suicide. How would you, for instance, feel if instead of calling the kid gay, they were yelling 'Christian' or 'Christ-lover' or 'Bible-beater'? How would you feel if the words you used to describe yourself and your religion were twisted into insults and used to hurt other people? Would you feel like it was an issue for your community to address, even if the slurs were focused more on being different, rather than on any real perception of religious affiliation?
I would have the same opinion.

It doesn't matter WHAT words are being used. IMO making this an issue about the particular words being used detracts from the real issue and does not keep the focus on helping kids, gay and straight, who are being bullied.

(just FYI, the term Jesus Freak was not coined as a compliment)
 
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Beanieboy

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Most adoption agencies want the best for the child going into an adopted home, and want a normal transaction. usually that child comes from a male-female relationship.
And they want to make the transition as easy as possible.

Many straight people don't think the subject of sexuality is a necessary topic for a 6 year old. And for some reason they are talking about it in kindergarten now. Before all this Sex ed was saved till like 7th-8th grade, when kids were mature.

jIMO

And yet, as I said in the OP, the kid who was 11 was harassed and called gay, the new F word, etc.
I grew up in the 60s. I was in Kindergarten around 68
Boys will call each other homo, call others sissy, fairy, pansy...
and that was kindergarten 1968.

Kids know they have a mom and dad. That isn't "teaching sex" to 5 year olds. It's simply acknowledging that it exists.

Asking kindergarteners to pledge not to use homophobic slurs isn't asking a lot. Do you honestly think they have never heard nor used the words f*g or d*ke or l*zi? Is this protest worthy?
 
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Beanieboy

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Bullying is not a LGBT issue. Some children just unfortunately end up in a school that is just not for them and don't get along with the other kids. While in another school they may have no problems at all. It is mostly a bigger problem in public secular schools, especially that are inner-city because children are more exposed to the harsher elements that they should not be around and have worse family conditions.

I just can't help but see this as an attempt by the LGBT community to use this boys death as a tool. They way they EXHAUSTED the Matthew Shepard case. I have no problems getting to the issue of bullying, but like I said, putting a LGBT slant on it shows a propaganda issue and an attempt to get leverage in the schools.

An 11 year old boy was called homophobic slurs and a snitch. He finally confides in his mother, who calls the school. Nothing happens. The teachers have to have seen it. No one intervenes. So, he's sees no alternative.

And your response? You accuse me of an attempt to get leverage in the schools?
For what? So that kids aren't bullied into wanting to kill themselves?
Then, yes.

Fight me all you want. Fight against my rights all you want.
When homophobia because a target for children, the yes, I am going to stand up to someone who does even stop for a minute, stunned or feel sorrow or mourning for an 11 year old kid that would ever even consider such a thing, his family who found him, or the 3 other boys harassed so intensely that it drove them to this, and just think that it is another "gay activist" stunt.

Good luck on judgement day.
 
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Beanieboy

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My best friend growing up was gay, and when we were 17, Scott was outed by our preacher who called him an "evil perversion of humanity" in front of the congregation, and he was forced from the church. His father kicked him out of the house within a week, and before the next Sunday Scott had stepped off the 8th floor barrier of a parking garage.

After he was buried, our preacher literally danced on his grave. He wasn't just bullied by his peers, he was bullied by his church, and his own father, all the while invoking the name of their righteous God.

And this passes for Christianity.
 
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Beanieboy

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Being from the midwest, I remember this story:

Jamie Nabozny was a student in the Ashland Public School District (hereinafter "the District") in Ashland, Wisconsin throughout his middle school and high school years. During that time, Nabozny was continually harassed and physically abused by fellow students because he is homosexual. Both in middle school and high school Nabozny reported the harassment to school administrators. Nabozny asked the school officials to protect him and to punish his assailants. Despite the fact that the school administrators had a policy of investigating and punishing student-on-student battery and sexual harassment, they allegedly turned a deaf ear to Nabozny's requests. Indeed, there is evidence to suggest that some of the administrators themselves mocked Nabozny's predicament. Nabozny eventually filed suit against several school officials and the District pursuant to 42 U.S.C. Section 1983 alleging, among other things, that the defendants: 1) violated his Fourteenth Amendment right to equal protection by discriminating against him based on his gender; 2) violated his Fourteenth Amendment right to equal protection by discriminating against him based on his sexual orientation; 3) violated his Fourteenth Amendment right to due process by exacerbating the risk that he would be harmed by fellow students; and, 4) violated his Fourteenth Amendment right to due process by encouraging an environment in which he would be harmed. The defendants filed a motion for summary judgment, which the district court granted. Nabozny appeals the district court's decision. Because we agree with the district court only in part, we affirm in part, reverse in part, and remand.

When Nabozny graduated to the Ashland Middle School in 1988, his life changed. Around the time that Nabozny entered the seventh grade, Nabozny realized that he is gay. Many of Nabozny's fellow classmates soon realized it too. Nabozny decided not to "closet" his sexuality, and considerable harassment from his fellow students ensued. Nabozny's classmates regularly referred to him as "[wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth]," and subjected him to various forms of physical abuse, including striking and spitting on him. Nabozny spoke to the school's guidance counselor, Ms. Peterson, about the abuse, informing Peterson that he is gay. Peterson took action, ordering the offending students to stop the harassment and placing two of them in detention. However, the students' abusive behavior toward Nabozny stopped only briefly. Meanwhile, Peterson was replaced as guidance counselor by Mr. Nowakowski. Nabozny similarly informed Nowakowski that he is gay, and asked for protection from the student harassment. Nowakowski, in turn, referred the matter to school Principal Mary Podlesny; Podlesny was responsible for school discipline.

A short time later, in a science classroom, Welty grabbed Nabozny and pushed him to the floor. Welty and Grande held Nabozny down and performed a mock rape on Nabozny, exclaiming that Nabozny should enjoy it. The boys carried out the mock rape as twenty other students looked on and laughed. Nabozny escaped and fled to Podlesny's office. Podlesny's alleged response is somewhat astonishing; she said that "boys will be boys" and told Nabozny that if he was "going to be so openly gay," he should "expect" such behavior from his fellow students. In the wake of Podlesny's comments, Nabozny ran home.
Nabozny was forced to return to his regular schedule. Understandably, Nabozny was "petrified" to attend school; he was subjected to abuse throughout the duration of the school year.

Shortly after the school year began, several boys attacked Nabozny in a school bathroom, hitting him and pushing his books from his hands. This time Nabozny's parents met with Podlesny and the alleged perpetrators. The offending boys denied that the incident occurred, and no action was taken. Podlesny told both Nabozny and his parents that Nabozny should expect such incidents because he is "openly" gay. Several similar meetings between Nabozny's parents and Podlesny followed subsequent incidents involving Nabozny. Each time perpetrators were identified to Podlesny. Each time Podlesny pledged to take action. And, each time nothing was done. Toward the end of the school year, the harassment against Nabozny intensified to the point that a district attorney purportedly advised Nabozny to take time off from school. Nabozny took one and a half weeks off from school. When he returned, the harassment resumed, driving Nabozny to attempt suicide. After a stint in a hospital, Nabozny finished his eighth grade year in a Catholic school.

Early in the year, while Nabozny was using a urinal in the restroom, Nabozny was assaulted. Student Stephen Huntley struck Nabozny in the back of the knee, forcing him to fall into the urinal. Roy Grande then urinated on Nabozny. Nabozny immediately reported the incident to the principal's office. Nabozny recounted the incident to the office secretary, who in turn relayed the story to Principal William Davis. Davis ordered Nabozny to go home and change clothes. Nabozny's parents scheduled a meeting with Davis and Assistant Principal Thomas Blauert. At the meeting, the parties discussed numerous instances of harassment against Nabozny, including the restroom incident.

Rather than taking action against the perpetrators, Davis and Blauert referred Nabozny to Mr. Reeder, a school guidance counselor. Reeder was supposed to change Nabozny's schedule so as to minimize Nabozny's exposure to the offending students. Eventually the school placed Nabozny in a special education class; Stephen Huntley and Roy Grande were special education students. Nabozny's parents continued to insist that the school take action, repeatedly meeting with Davis and Blauert among others. Nabozny's parents' efforts were futile; no action was taken. In the middle of his ninth grade year, Nabozny again attempted suicide. Following another hospital stay and a period living with relatives, Nabozny ran away to Minneapolis. His parents convinced him to return to Ashland by promising that Nabozny would not have to attend Ashland High. Because Nabozny's parents were unable to afford private schooling, however, the Department of Social Services ordered Nabozny to return to Ashland High.

Ms. Hanson, a school guidance counselor, lobbied the school's administration to take more aggressive action to no avail. The worst was yet to come, however. One morning when Nabozny arrived early to school, he went to the library to study. The library was not yet open, so Nabozny sat down in the hallway. Minutes later he was met by a group of eight boys led by Stephen Huntley. Huntley began kicking Nabozny in the stomach, and continued to do so for five to ten minutes while the other students looked on laughing. Nabozny reported the incident to Hanson, who referred him to the school's "police liaison" Dan Crawford. Nabozny told Crawford that he wanted to press charges, but Crawford dissuaded him. Crawford promised to speak to the offending boys instead. Meanwhile, at Crawford's behest, Nabozny reported the incident to Blauert. Blauert, the school official supposedly in charge of disciplining, laughed and told Nabozny that Nabozny deserved such treatment because he is gay. Weeks later Nabozny collapsed from internal bleeding that resulted from Huntley's beating. Nabozny's parents and counselor Hanson repeatedly urged Davis and Blauert to take action to protect Nabozny. Each time aggressive action was promised. And, each time nothing was done.

This isn't "a little taunting". This is repeated abuse.
And why did no one do anything?
Why would an administrator tell him, "well, boys will be boys" and think a mock rape is permissible, that 8 boys kicking a gay kid is ok, and do nothing?

That's pretty intense. So, yeah, suicide would cross my mind, too.
 
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SughaNSpice

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[FONT='Arial','sans-serif']
[FONT='Arial','sans-serif']How have straight parents and some christians been a part of this?
Where do you think straight kids learn that?
If you are quoting Leviticus, calling gays an abomination and quoting the death penalty, do you really think your kids are going to treat others in a loving way?

Parents to Protest Pro-Gay Day in Public Schools
Parents to Protest Pro-Gay Day in Public Schools
[/FONT]
[/FONT]

[FONT='Arial','sans-serif'][/FONT]
[FONT='Arial','sans-serif']Well Christians can’t have their children thinking gays are human beings. [/FONT]
[FONT='Arial','sans-serif'] [/FONT]
[FONT='Arial','sans-serif']Those opposed to such anti-gay bashing seem to want to say bullying is bad…except in certain cases[/FONT]
 
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CreedIsChrist

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An 11 year old boy was called homophobic slurs and a snitch. He finally confides in his mother, who calls the school. Nothing happens. The teachers have to have seen it. No one intervenes. So, he's sees no alternative.

Then its the schools and the teachers fault for not stepping in and enforcing their policy.


And your response? You accuse me of an attempt to get leverage in the schools?
For what? So that kids aren't bullied into wanting to kill themselves?
Then, yes.

Because this is a bullying issue, not a GLTB issue. Most children who are picked on it school are not even gay. ALL school shootings were from children who were not gay. So saying this is a GLTB issue is dishonest and doesn't address probably 95% of the issues that do involve bullying.

Fight me all you want. Fight against my rights all you want.
When homophobia because a target for children, the yes, I am going to stand up to someone who does even stop for a minute, stunned or feel sorrow or mourning for an 11 year old kid that would ever even consider such a thing, his family who found him, or the 3 other boys harassed so intensely that it drove them to this, and just think that it is another "gay activist" stunt.

Homophobia? We don't even know if this child was even gay, lol. If you have looked around in the world, you would notice that calling someone "gay" or a "*ag" doesn't mean they are calling them that because they actually are homosexual, but rather is an attack on the persons character and dignity. Even actual gay people themselves use the same insults against people in their own groups. Its no different than calling someone a loser, dumb, douc*e, an idiot, etc. The arsenal of words that are used don't have any meanings in them themselves, but rather just to insult and put someone down.

And in all honesty do you really think that because some GLTB group says to children in schools to stop calling others gay actually means the kids are gonna do that? Please. Anti-bulling agency's have been doing this for decades now. The problems are the lax policies in the public schools and the deadbeat teachers. Making this a GLBT issue creates the problem of validating the actual lifestyle in schools, and that doesn't belong in the schools as its the parents job to teach their children.

So as I said, its a bullying issue. Not a sexual orientation issue. The GLBT need to stop using this poor boys death as a tool to get foothold in public schools to affirm their lifestyle.

Good luck on judgment day

that is quite immature. Maybe you should concentrate more on what I said instead of attacking my character and using emotional diatribe. For every alledged gay person who had died I could provide twice as much from people like Jeffery Dahmer and Gacy.
 
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Freodin

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That is not quite correct.

Yes, the main issue is teh bullying... but the problem behind that is that too many people still think that bullying is ok or not that bad when it is aimed at (perceived) homosexuals.

Bullying still happens for all kind of reasons... it´s sad, but kids will be kids. But imagine the general outcry if such a bullying for racial reasons would lead to suicides.
 
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