Who is responsible for sin?

[Philip dT]

Is it God?
Many say that God has decided man's actions and choices from the foundation of the world. He is in control of every single event that takes place in history.

Is it Satan?
Many say that Satan is to blame for sin. He introduced it to Eve. But he is ultimately responsible

Is it man?
Many say that sin is man's doing. It is a result of his choice.

Is it the fall of man?
Many say we are incorporated into the sin of Adam. This is why we are born sinners. According to this, every man is in sin because of the inevitable effect of the fall of Adam.

Most of the time, soteriology revolves around the issue of "how do I get saved." But I think it is as important to determine "how do people get lost and go to hell." I think if we can determine the answer on this question, we will understand soteriology better.

 

[Ainesis]

God places the responsiblity of sinning on the individual believer "Do not err my brethren."

Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him. Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man: But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death. Do not err, my beloved brethren. James 1:12-16

 

[Paleoconservatarian]

I think it's well worded in the 1689 LBC, 3.1: God hath decreed in himself, from all eternity, by the most wise and holy counsel of his own will, freely and unchangeably, all things, whatsoever comes to pass; yet so as thereby is God neither the author of sin nor hath fellowship with any therein; nor is violence offered to the will of the creature, nor yet is the liberty or contingency of second causes taken away, but rather established; in which appears his wisdom in disposing all things, and power and faithfulness in accomplishing his decree.

...

6.1: Although God created man upright and perfect, and gave him a righteous law, which had been unto life had he kept it, and threatened death upon the breach thereof, yet he did not long abide in this honour; Satan using the subtlety of the serpent to subdue Eve, then by her seducing Adam, who, without any compulsion, did willfully transgress the law of their creation, and the command given unto them, in eating the forbidden fruit, which God was pleased, according to his wise and holy counsel to permit, having purposed to order it to his own glory.

God is not responsible for sin, although He permitted and decreed that our first parents should sin. Satan convinced our first parents to sin, although they did so willingly. Man chose to sin, and therefore responsible for sin, and God is just in holding us accountable for it.

 

[LukeBritt]

I think that it's best put in Romans 5.

 

[Philip dT]

I think it's well worded in the 1689 LBC, 3.1: God hath decreed in himself, from all eternity, by the most wise and holy counsel of his own will, freely and unchangeably, all things, whatsoever comes to pass; yet so as thereby is God neither the author of sin nor hath fellowship with any therein; nor is violence offered to the will of the creature, nor yet is the liberty or contingency of second causes taken away, but rather established; in which appears his wisdom in disposing all things, and power and faithfulness in accomplishing his decree.

This is a tipical answer that I have seen many times, but it is a contradiction. How could God decree all things and yet not be the author of sin? It must either be the one or the other. The above position is holding onto an inexplicable paradox. Not a satisfactory answer.

 

[Paleoconservatarian]

This is a tipical answer that I have seen many times, but it is a contradiction. How could God decree all things and yet not be the author of sin? It must either be the one or the other. The above position is holding onto an inexplicable paradox. Not a satisfactory answer.

It's a mystery of God, I suppose. But as long as you're an orthodox Christian, you can't escape this answer. If you think God simply allowed sin to happen, despite His foreknowledge, you're still pinning it on Him. It was His will that it happen. And yet while God was pleased to have man sin, He does not sin. Man willfully sinned, and is therefore the one who realized sin.

 

[LukeBritt]

that's pretty good, Paleo, considering I'm not Orthodox.

 

[Paleoconservatarian]

that's pretty good, Paleo, considering I'm not Orthodox.

Small 'O'.

 

[pcwilkins]

Who is responsible for sin? Well, I know that I am, and that ought to be the most important thing. It is my own sins that I need forgiveness for, and noone can give that forgiveness but God.

God will hold every person responsible for their own sins. The first cause of the first sin is a mystery. One thing is clear though - sin was always part of God's plan. That's why he appointed a redeemer in eternity past. So God knew man would fall. But God didn't make man fall.

Eventually, I suppose, everything comes back to just one cause. There is only one 'prime mover' - God.

Peter

 

[Philip dT]

Who is responsible for sin? Well, I know that I am, and that ought to be the most important thing. It is my own sins that I need forgiveness for, and noone can give that forgiveness but God.

God will hold every person responsible for their own sins. The first cause of the first sin is a mystery. One thing is clear though - sin was always part of God's plan. That's why he appointed a redeemer in eternity past. So God knew man would fall. But God didn't make man fall.

Eventually, I suppose, everything comes back to just one cause. There is only one 'prime mover' - God.

Peter

Your answer tries to give some responsibility to man, but eventually ends up in determinism - which takes the responsibility away from man again.

 

[Desolate Owl]

It's a mystery of God, I suppose. But as long as you're an orthodox Christian, you can't escape this answer. If you think God simply allowed sin to happen, despite His foreknowledge, you're still pinning it on Him. It was His will that it happen. And yet while God was pleased to have man sin, He does not sin. Man willfully sinned, and is therefore the one who realized sin.

It's different to a mystery of God. It's a logical contradiction, so it can't be true unless you want to throw away logic.

 

[pcwilkins]

Your answer tries to give some responsibility to man, but eventually ends up in determinism - which takes the responsibility away from man again.

It depends on the exact meaning of the question. Are you asking who was responsible for the entrance of sin into the world, or who was responsible for the fact that I stole a car yesterday? (That's hypothetical, you understand...)

Peter

 

[Ainesis]

Are you asking who was responsible for the entrance of sin into the world, or who was responsible for the fact that I stole a car yesterday? (That's hypothetical, you understand...)

Peter

Whew! I hope so!

 

[pcwilkins]

It's a logical contradiction, so it can't be true unless you want to throw away logic.

Here's a logical contradiction: 3=1. You really do have to throw away logic to believe that! But I imagine you do.

We do have to accept that something that is logical may still be false, and that something that is illogical may be true.

Peter

 

[Paleoconservatarian]

It's different to a mystery of God. It's a logical contradiction, so it can't be true unless you want to throw away logic.

Logic assumes you have enough information to use it. You don't. Now, if we were to say that God predestinates and does not predestinate, then you've got a problem.

 

[LukeBritt]

To say that three persons have one essence is not ill-logical...

 

[pcwilkins]

To say that three persons have one essence is not ill-logical...

But to say that three seperate persons are one isn't logical.

Peter

 

[Desolate Owl]

Here's a logical contradiction: 3=1. You really do have to throw away logic to believe that! But I imagine you do.

We do have to accept that something that is logical may still be false, and that something that is illogical may be true.

Peter

Yep, you're right. You do have to throw away logic to believe that 3=1. That's why I don't believe that 3=1.

Logical things may be false, I agree with that, but something illogical cannot be true. When 2 statements contradict, at least one of them is false. If logic isn't valid, you'll be opening up one great big can of worms.

 

[pcwilkins]

Yep, you're right. You do have to throw away logic to believe that 3=1. That's why I don't believe that 3=1.

Logical things may be false, I agree with that, but something illogical cannot be true. When 2 statements contradict, at least one of them is false. If logic isn't valid, you'll be opening up one great big can of worms.

But do you not see how human logic is not perfect? 100 years ago, logic would have told you many things that we know now to be untrue.

I agree that two contradicting statements cannot both be true but you can only be sure that the two statements contradict if you fully understand the meaning of the statements. In many cases, I don't think we do.

Is it just me or have we got completely off the point?

Peter

 

[Desolate Owl]

But do you not see how human logic is not perfect? 100 years ago, logic would have told you many things that we know now to be untrue.

I agree that two contradicting statements cannot both be true but you can only be sure that the two statements contradict if you fully understand the meaning of the statements. In many cases, I don't think we do.

Is it just me or have we got completely off the point?

Peter

Heh, heh, yep, I've think we've strayed a little from the point

I feel much better knowing that you agree that contradicting statements cannot be true. I don't think it's human logic that is faulty; it is human premises. Logic doesn't provide truth. It is only the rules and way of thinking for drawing conclusions from the truth that we have and determining what is false. Perfectly good logic will lead to wrong conclusions if the original premises are wrong.

I agree with you about not having fully understanding about statements. They must be qualified.

Example:
3=1 - false
3 persons = 1 God - true

I'll be quiet now before I take us any further off topic.