Who Is Jesus?

[dreadnought]

Or what do you mean by saying that the Father created Jesus?

Well, the Father had to become Jesus.

 

[W2L]

That phrase is 8 times in the Gospels, 6 times in Luke,
and 1 each in Mark and John. The rest are used in Acts, the Epistles and Revelation.......

Genesis 1:1 (NKJV)

"word" AND "of" AND "god"
occurs in 113 verses in the NKJV, including 47 exact phrases shown first.
exact matches (1Sa 9:27–Rev 20:4), inexact matches (Num 22:18–Deu 4:2)

Pro 30:5
Every word of God is pure;
He is a shield to those who put their trust in Him.

1st time used in NT:

Mar 7:13
“making the word of God of no effect through your tradition which you have handed down.
And many such things you do.”

1st time used outside the Gospels:

Act 4:31
And when they had prayed, the place where they were assembled together was shaken; and they were all filled with the Holy Spirit,
and they spoke the word of God with boldness.

And 5 times in Revelation:

Rev 1:2
who bore witness to the word of God, and to the testimony of Jesus Christ, to all things that he saw.

Rev 6:9
When He opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the testimony which they held.

Reve 19:
13 and He is arrayed with a garment covered with blood, and His name is called the Word of God

Rev 20:4
And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them.
Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God,

Thank you.

 

[Baby Cottontail]

Well, yes, on the first question - Jesus had to come in to being, even if Jesus was God in flesh.

As for Jesus asking the Father to send the Holy Spirit, I think he wanted the those listening to understand what to expect.

Perhaps it would be good to discuss the Holy Spirit.

Sure. I was talking about the Holy Spirit a bit earlier today with other people in this thread, so it would be a good time to discuss Him.

One quick question first, though...
how do you interpret this passage:
Matthew 26:39 (NASB)
And He went a little beyond them, and fell on His face and prayed, saying, “My Father, if it is possible, let this cup pass from Me; yet not as I will, but as You will.”

I do eventually want to get back to talk about John 1 and Colossians 1 again. That got lost in the shuffle. Could we discuss that before moving onto talking about the Holy Spirit?

 

[Baby Cottontail]

Well, the Father had to become Jesus.

Which is the main point of our disagreement. That's why I would like to discuss John 1 and Colossians 1 again. May we do that?

 

[dreadnought]

Sure. I was talking about the Holy Spirit a bit earlier today with other people in this thread, so it would be a good time to discuss Him.

One quick question first, though...
how do you interpret this passage:
Matthew 26:39 (NASB)
And He went a little beyond them, and fell on His face and prayed, saying, “My Father, if it is possible, let this cup pass from Me; yet not as I will, but as You will.”

I do eventually want to get back to talk about John 1 and Colossians 1 again. That got lost in the shuffle. Could we discuss that before moving onto talking about the Holy Spirit?

Matthew 26:39: I think Jesus was just making the point that he wasn't looking forward to what was about to happen to him.

Yes, if you want to quote those verses again, we can discuss them.

 

[dreadnought]

Which is the main point of our disagreement. That's why I would like to discuss John 1 and Colossians 1 again. May we do that?

Yes.

 

[Baby Cottontail]

Matthew 26:39: I think Jesus was just making the point that he wasn't looking forward to what was about to happen to him.

Yes, if you want to quote those verses again, we can discuss them.

Even though Jesus said "not my will" talking about Himself, "but your will" talking about the Father?

That would imply that Jesus isn't the Father.

Anyway, thank you. Let me go find those posts. I will break them up. That way they are smaller.

 

[Baby Cottontail]

Yes.

Colossians 1:16 (NASB):
For by Him all things were created, both in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities-- all things have been created through Him and for Him.

How do you understand this verse?

 

[dreadnought]

Even though Jesus said "not my will" talking about Himself, "but your will" talking about the Father?

That would imply that Jesus isn't the Father.

Anyway, thank you. Let me go find those posts. I will break them up. That way they are smaller.

But once again, Jesus was setting an example. He wasn't here to say, "I am God." He was here to say, "Here is how to live your life."

 

[dreadnought]

Colossians 1:16 (NASB):
For by Him all things were created, both in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities-- all things have been created through Him and for Him.

How do you understand this verse?

God created all things. Jesus was God in flesh. The previous verse describes Jesus as "the image of the invisible God (RSV)."

 

[Baby Cottontail]

But once again, Jesus was setting an example. He wasn't here to say, "I am God." He was here to say, "Here is how to live your life."

So, in other words, Jesus' words there weren't "real" in the sense that He didn't really mean them? You believe he was just showing people how to live their life?

 

[Baby Cottontail]

God created all things. Jesus was God in flesh. The previous verse describes Jesus as "the image of the invisible God (RSV)."

Thanks.

What about this verse:
John 1:3 (NASB):
All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.

 

[dreadnought]

So, in other words, Jesus' words there weren't "real" in the sense that He didn't really mean them? You believe he was just showing people how to live their life?

Perhaps it would accurate to say that God created a person and then put himself into that person.

 

[dreadnought]

Thanks.

What about this verse:
John 1:3 (NASB):
All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.

All things came into being through God the Father. And Jesus was God the Father in flesh.

 

[Baby Cottontail]

All things came into being through God the Father. And Jesus was God the Father in flesh.

Verse 3 is about the Word, as is Verse 1 and 2. The Word isn't the Father.

John 1:1-2
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God.

John 1:14
And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

All things came into being through God the Father.
And Jesus was God the Father in flesh.

That sounds biblical to me.
He is after all the Beginning and the End, the Almighty....

Col 1:18
He is the head of the body, the church; He is the beginning, the First-Born from the dead, that in everything He might be pre-eminent.

Was this Jesus talking?

Gen 17:1
When Abram was ninety-nine years old, Yahweh appeared to Abram and said to him,
“I am Almighty God; walk before Me and be blameless.[Reve 1:8]

Jhn 8:58
Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.”

Isa 46:10
Declaring the end from the beginning,
And from ancient times things that are not yet done,
Saying, ‘My counsel shall stand,
And I will do all My pleasure,'

Jesus is also the "Almighty", the One Who is to come:

Rev 1:8
'I AM the Alpha and the Omega, beginning and end, saith the Lord, who is, and who was, and who is coming -- the Almighty.'
Rev 21:6
and He said to me, 'It hath been done!
I AM the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End;
I, to him who is thirsting, will give of the fountain of the water of the life freely; [John 7:37

 

[Baby Cottontail]

Perhaps it would accurate to say that God created a person and then put himself into that person.

The Word existed before He took on flesh. The Word isn't the Father. The Word existed with the Father since the very beginning.

 

[dreadnought]

Verse 3 is about the Word, as is Verse 1 and 2. The Word isn't the Father.

John 1:1-2
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God.

John 1:14
And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth.

But we are what we do. God created the Word.

 

[Baby Cottontail]

He is after all the Beginning and the End, the Almighty....

Col 1:18
He is the head of the body, the church; He is the beginning, the First-Born from the dead,
that in everything He might be pre-eminent.

Was this Jesus talking?

No, it was Paul writing about Jesus' supremacy in all things. This is part of Paul's letter to the Colossians.

Gen 17:1
When Abram was ninety-nine years old, Yahweh appeared to Abram and said to him,
“I am Almighty God; walk before Me and be blameless.[Reve 1:8]

Jhn 8:58
Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.”

Isa 46:10
Declaring the end from the beginning,
And from ancient times things that are not yet done,
Saying, ‘My counsel shall stand,
And I will do all My pleasure,'

Isn't Jesus also the "Almighty"

Yes. He is YHWH, just as the Father is YHWH, and just as the Holy Spirit is YHWH. One Almighty God in three Persons.

Rev 1:8
'I AM the Alpha and the Omega, beginning and end, saith the Lord, who is, and who was, and who is coming -- the Almighty.'
Rev 21:6
and He said to me, 'It hath been done!
I AM the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End;
I, to him who is thirsting, will give of the fountain of the water of the life freely; [John 7:37

Yes, and there are even more "Beginning/End First/Last" verses that YHWH uses to describe Himself in Isaiah.

 

[dreadnought]

The Word existed before He took on flesh. The Word isn't the Father. The Word existed with the Father since the very beginning.

Yes, the Word existed before he took flesh. But, I believe, the Word IS the Father - it is what he created. And, yes, the Word existed with the Father since the very beginning.