Who Is Jesus?

[Baby Cottontail]

In my heart God is one.

Mine too....

 

[dreadnought]

John 10 isn't a prayer. Jesus is discussing who He is in relation to the Father to some fellow Jews.

But he is setting the example. He is not saying, "I am God," but he is showing the way.

 

[dreadnought]

How do you explain John 14:28 (NASB):
You heard that I said to you, ‘I go away, and I will come to you.’ If you loved Me, you would have rejoiced because I go to the Father, for the Father is greater than I.

Jesus, again, showing us the way. Even as God walked the earth as Jesus, he continued to be God.

 

[Baby Cottontail]

But he is setting the example. He is not saying, "I am God," but he is showing the way.

I thought you used that John 10 to show Jesus' deity as well, but I guess not.

How do you understand this verse:
John 8:58 (NASB)
Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, "I am."

 

[Baby Cottontail]

Jesus, again, showing us the way. Even as God walked the earth as Jesus, he continued to be God.

By saying "the Father is greater than I," doesn't that suggest that Jesus is NOT the Father?

I agree with you when you said, "even as God walked the earth as Jesus, he continued to be God."

Never have I questioned Jesus' Deity. I just disagree with you that Jesus is the Father.

 

[dreadnought]

I thought you used that John 10 to show Jesus' deity as well, but I guess not.

How do you understand this verse:
John 8:58 (NASB)
Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, "I am."

I forget our conversation about John 10. As for John 8:58, I believe that Jesus is God in flesh, so Jesus's statement here would be a statement of fact.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

W2L said: ↑
Its plain as the nose on our face. The Lords is the spirit.

When the NT speaks about "the Spirit" it is almost always a reference to the Holy Spirit.
See John 14:16-17
John 14:26
John 15:26-27
John 16:5-15
1 Corinthians 12:3-13
as examples.

What about these?

Ezekiel 8:3
He stretched out the form of a hand, and took me by a lock of my hair; and the Spirit lifted me up between earth and heaven, and brought me in visions of God to Jerusalem,
to the door of the north gate of the inner court, where the seat of the image of jealousy was, which provokes to jealousy.
[Revelation 17:3]

Reve 17:3
And he carries me away into a wilderness in spirit,
and I saw a Woman sitting on a scarlet beast being replete of names of blasphemy
having seven heads and 10 horns [Ezekiel 8:3]

Revelation 21:10
And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain,
and shewed me that great City, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,"

 

[dreadnought]

By saying "the Father is greater than I," doesn't that suggest that Jesus is NOT the Father?

I agree with you when you said, "even as God walked the earth as Jesus, he continued to be God."

Never have I questioned Jesus' Deity. I just disagree with you that Jesus is the Father.

I believe the Father became Jesus, not to proclaim kingship, but to show the way to himself. He couldn't do this by saying, "I am the Father. Follow me." He had to do this as someone else, and say, "I will lead you to the Father."

 

[Baby Cottontail]

I forget our conversation about John 10. As for John 8:58, I believe that Jesus is God in flesh, so Jesus's statement here would be a statement of fact.

Therefore, you would see it as an absolute claim to Jesus' Deity.

As do I. I believe that Jesus claimed to be YHWH there.

 

[W2L]

What about these?

Interesting scriptures, thanks. I dont know

 

[Baby Cottontail]

I believe the Father became Jesus, not to proclaim kingship, but to show the way to himself. He couldn't do this by saying, "I am the Father. Follow me." He had to do this as someone else, and say, "I will lead you to the Father."

That doesn't explain why Jesus would say, "the Father is greater than I." It would make no sense for Him to say that if He is actually the Father.

And that doesn't account for the fact that Jesus says the Father sent Him. Or that He will ask the Father to send the Holy Spirit.

 

[dreadnought]

Therefore, you would see it as an absolute claim to Jesus' Deity.

As do I. I believe that Jesus claimed to be YHWH there.

Well, I already believe in Jesus' deity. I have no disagreement with either of your statements.

 

[Baby Cottontail]

What about these?

Ezekiel 8:3
He stretched out the form of a hand, and took me by a lock of my hair; and the Spirit lifted me up between earth and heaven, and brought me in visions of God to Jerusalem,
to the door of the north gate of the inner court, where the seat of the image of jealousy was, which provokes to jealousy.

I think that the Spirit there IS and example of the Holy Spirit in the OT.

[Revelation 17:3]

Reve 17:3
And he carries me away into a wilderness in spirit,
and I saw a Woman sitting on a scarlet beast being replete of names of blasphemy
having seven heads and 10 horns [Ezekiel 8:3]

Again, I think that this is the Holy Spirit.

Revelation 21:10
And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain,
and shewed me that great City, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,"

Yes, I think that is the Holy Spirit.

 

[dreadnought]

That doesn't explain why Jesus would say, "the Father is greater than I." It would make no sense for Him to say that if He is actually the Father.

And that doesn't account for the fact that Jesus says the Father sent Him. Or that He will ask the Father to send the Holy Spirit.

Maybe he is saying things in terms that we can understand.

God is more than a human being, so a possible explanation for "the Father is greater than I" could simply be that.

And as for saying the Father sent him, indeed God (the Father) created Jesus - it is no lie to say that the Father sent him, even if the Father is Jesus.

 

[Baby Cottontail]

Well, I already believe in Jesus' deity. I have no disagreement with either of your statements.

Right, so this is what we do have in common.

 

[W2L]

Maybe he is saying things in terms that we can understand.

God is more than a human being, so a possible explanation for "the Father is greater than I" could simply be that.

And as for saying the Father sent him, indeed God (the Father) created Jesus - it is no lie to say that the Father sent him, even if the Father is Jesus.

In the beginning was the Word.

 

[Baby Cottontail]

Maybe he is saying things in terms that we can understand.

God is more than a human being, so a possible explanation for "the Father is greater than I" could simply be that.

And as for saying the Father sent him, indeed God (the Father) created Jesus - it is no lie to say that the Father sent him, even if the Father is Jesus.

When you say "created Jesus" you are talking about Jesus being born into the world and having a physical body (the incarnation), right?

What about Jesus asking the Father to send the Holy Spirit?

 

[Baby Cottontail]

In the beginning was the Word.

Yes.

 

[Baby Cottontail]

And as for saying the Father sent him, indeed God (the Father) created Jesus - it is no lie to say that the Father sent him, even if the Father is Jesus.

Or what do you mean by saying that the Father created Jesus?

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

In the beginning was the Word.

That phrase is 8 times in the Gospels, 6 times in Luke,
and 1 each in Mark and John. The rest are used in Acts, the Epistles and Revelation.......

Genesis 1:1 (NKJV)

"word" AND "of" AND "god"
occurs in 113 verses in the NKJV, including 47 exact phrases shown first.
exact matches (1Sa 9:27–Rev 20:4), inexact matches (Num 22:18–Deu 4:2)

Pro 30:5
Every word of God is pure;
He is a shield to those who put their trust in Him.

1st time used in NT:

Mar 7:13
“making the word of God of no effect through your tradition which you have handed down.
And many such things you do.”

1st time used outside the Gospels:

Act 4:31
And when they had prayed, the place where they were assembled together was shaken; and they were all filled with the Holy Spirit,
and they spoke the word of God with boldness.

And 5 times in Revelation:

Rev 1:2
who bore witness to the word of God, and to the testimony of Jesus Christ, to all things that he saw.

Rev 6:9
When He opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the testimony which they held.

Reve 19:
13 and He is arrayed with a garment covered with blood, and His name is called the Word of God

Rev 20:4
And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them.
Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God,

 

[dreadnought]

When you say "created Jesus" you are talking about Jesus being born into the world and having a physical body (the incarnation), right?

What about Jesus asking the Father to send the Holy Spirit?

Well, yes, on the first question - Jesus had to come in to being, even if Jesus was God in flesh.

As for Jesus asking the Father to send the Holy Spirit, I think he wanted the those listening to understand what to expect.

Perhaps it would be good to discuss the Holy Spirit.