WHO IS GOD'S TRUE CHURCH ACCORDING TO GOD'S WORD?

[Karola]

What is your claim about Protestantism then? Are you claiming that we are NOT the church?

I have met catholics who believe no protestant can be saved(they obviously cannot be the church) and protestants who believe no practicing catholic can be saved(obviously they are not the church either)

 

[JLB777]

Try 1 John 3:23 where John tells what they are. So when you quote John, that is what he is referring to in any work authored by John.

Do you understand what the phrase “know Him” refers to?

 

[Saint Steven]

Catholics would say they are the true church that was from the beginning, others would dispute that. Others might say the true church is what they follow and believe through their interpretation of scripture. The true church is still here, but it depends what you define that true church to be I would say

The problem with any discussion about a "true" church is that it infers that there is a false church. There are just as many definitions of what that means as a "true" church.

 

[JLB777]

What "commandments" are those? (the NIV says "commands" -- of Christ)

These commandments -


Owe no one anything except to love one another, for he who loves another has fulfilled the law. For the commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not bear false witness,” “You shall not covet,” and if there is any other commandment, are all summed up in this saying, namely, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” Love does no harm to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.
Romans 13:8-10

For the commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not bear false witness,” “You shall not covet,”​

JLB

 

[Karola]

The problem with any discussion about a "true" church is that it infers that there is a false church. There are just as many definitions of what that means as a "true" church.

The church I grew up in believed they were denomination that reflected the true first century church, I heard an sda minister say from the pulpit, their denomination was the true first century church, catholics believe their denomination is the true first century church. I guess it would be hard for any denomination to say: ''We are not the true first century church''

 

[Saint Steven]

These commandments -


Owe no one anything except to love one another, for he who loves another has fulfilled the law. For the commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not bear false witness,” “You shall not covet,” and if there is any other commandment, are all summed up in this saying, namely, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” Love does no harm to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.
Romans 13:8-10

For the commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not bear false witness,” “You shall not covet,”​

JLB

We seem to have a containment issue with the law. What you posted would infer all 613. "... and if there is any other commandment..." (and there are - 613+)

 

[Francis Drake]

It is very clear what the scriptures are talking about. God's 10 commandments are the KNOWLEDGE of GOOD and EVIL;

Desiring to live by the "knowledge of Good and Evil" was what brought death to Adam and mankind.
No matter how man tries to do that he will always fail, and in Matt5 that's what we find Jesus is teaching, the utter futility of trying to be perfect.

I'd much rather eat from the Tree of Life that the tree of death.

 

[Albion]

The church I grew up in believed they were denomination that reflected the true first century church, I heard an sda minister say from the pulpit, their denomination was the true first century church, catholics believe their denomination is the true first century church. I guess it would be hard for any denomination to say: ''We are not the true first century church''

...and every once in awhile, we even get a thread that amounts to nothing more than an opportunity for each person to post that his own church ''...is the true church and sorry 'bout yours!''

 

[Dave G.]

"The Church" is not any particular denomination or building or world wide collective of buildings or organization but is the remnant within them all who are born again believers who ultimately make up The Body of Christ. Spiritually, Christ is the Head and born again believers are The Body of Christ, collectively ( Christ and His born again believers) that makes "The Church". Several scriptures can be applied.

 

[1stcenturylady]

Do you understand what the phrase “know Him” refers to?

Yes, abide in Him, and He in me. It is like a marriage. We are the Bride of Christ.

 

[ViaCrucis]

In Lutheranism we understand that wherever the Word is preached and the Sacraments administered there is the Church; for God's people, His holy assembly, are marked by Word and Sacrament. They are those people Christ has called and set forth as His own through Holy Baptism, who hear, receive, confess, and proclaim the Word, who gather around the Lord's Supper, who call and ordain ministers to exercise the office of the Keys, who pray, and who minister in Christ's name.

Seeing as the Church is, first and foremost, Christ's; and Christ Himself has given His Church the sacred commission to preach the Gospel, to baptize, and to celebrate the Eucharist. For He says, "Preach the Gospel to every living creature" and "make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit, teaching them all which I have told you" and "Do this for the remembrance of Me" Thus all who belong to Christ, all to whom Christ gives Himself in Word and Sacrament, etc are God's holy, catholic, and apostolic Church. For there is one Body, one Baptism, one faith, one Spirit, one Lord, and one God and Father over all. And what makes us one is Christ, in whom and by whom we are God's people, through our common Baptism, by the Word we have received, by the common Table which we receive the body and blood of our Lord who makes us one.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[JLB777]

We seem to have a containment issue with the law. What you posted would infer all 613. "... and if there is any other commandment..." (and there are - 613+)

The containment issue was dealt with at the cross.

We know, like Paul, that the law of Moses was abolished in His flesh, having been nailed to the cross.


having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace, Ephesians 2:15


Key Phrase:

the law of commandments contained in ordinances


Under the law of Moses the commandments were “contained” in ordinances.


Before the law was added to the Abrahamic Covenant, these “ordinaces” were not a part of the commandments that Abraham walked in before God.

because Abraham obeyed My voice and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes, and My laws.” ​

And I will make your descendants multiply as the stars of heaven; I will give to your descendants all these lands; and in your seed all the nations of the earth shall be blessed; because Abraham obeyed My voice and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes, and My laws.” Genesis 26:4-5


In other words, under the law of Moses, if a person violated or transgressed the commandment, the “ordinance” required that they were put to death.


Examples -


Idolatry -


Then the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, “Again, you shall say to the children of Israel: Whoever of the children of Israel, or of the strangers who dwell in Israel, who gives any of his descendants to Molech, he shall surely be put to death. The people of the land shall stone him with stones. I will set My face against that man, and will cut him off from his people, because he has given some of his descendants to Molech, to defile My sanctuary and profane My holy name. And if the people of the land should in any way hide their eyes from the man, when he gives some of his descendants to Molech, and they do not kill him, then I will set My face against that man and against his family; and I will cut him off from his people, and all who prostitute themselves with him to commit harlotry with Molech.
Leviticus 20:1-5


Blasphemy -


Now the son of an Israelite woman, whose father was an Egyptian, went out among the children of Israel; and this Israelite woman’s son and a man of Israel fought each other in the camp. And the Israelite woman’s son blasphemed the name of the Lord and cursed; and so they brought him to Moses. (His mother’s name was Shelomith the daughter of Dibri, of the tribe of Dan.) Then they put him in custody, that the mind of the Lord might be shown to them.
And the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, “Take outside the camp him who has cursed; then let all who heard him lay their hands on his head, and let all the congregation stone him. Leviticus 24:10-14



Sabbath ordinance -


You shall keep the Sabbath, therefore, for it is holy to you. Everyone who profanes it shall surely be put to death; for whoever does any work on it, that person shall be cut off from among his people. Work shall be done for six days, but the seventh is the Sabbath of rest, holy to the Lord. Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death. Exodus 31:14-15


In addition to the death penalty for Sabbath violation, there were strict ordinances for not working, and what constituted work, such as preparing meals and travel.









Honor father and mother -


‘For everyone who curses his father or his mother shall surely be put to death. He has cursed his father or his mother. His blood shall be upon him. Leviticus 20:9



Adultery -


The man who commits adultery with another man’s wife, he who commits adultery with his neighbor’s wife, the adulterer and the adulteress, shall surely be put to death. Leviticus 20:10



Homosexuality -


If a man lies with a male as he lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination. They shall surely be put to death.
Leviticus 20:13


Sexual Immorality -


If a man marries a woman and her mother, it is wickedness. They shall be burned with fire, both he and they, that there may be no wickedness among you. Leviticus 20:14


In addition there were special feast days, ceremonial washing, as well strict priesthood requirements.


And on and on and on ...


Since the law of Moses was abolished, we are no longer under the strict ordinaces of that law.



The 10 Commandments did not originate with Moses, as we have that Abraham walked in obedience to them.


Remember before the law was added, the Sabbath was a day made for man to rest, which points us to the seventh day to come, when Jesus returns (another discussion).


Today under the New Covenant the commandments are still very much a part of the New Covenant, as these are written upon our heart and mind, being taught to us by His Spirit within us, who leads us and guides us into all truth.



God bless you.



JLB

 

[JacksBratt]

The one and only "Church" is not a building, not a collection of rules and regulations put together by men.... It is every true believer of Christ and His work on the cross.

But, far be it for me to get in the way of all the bashing of one denomination of another over infant baptism, baptism for salvation, salvation by works, the Holy Communion and the true flesh and blood of Christ, Perpetual virginity.... and on and on it goes.

 

[Heart2Soul]

James 1:26
If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man's religion is vain.
1:26,27 When men take more pains to seem religious than really to be so, it is a sign their religion is in vain. The not bridling the tongue, readiness to speak of the faults of others, or to lessen their wisdom and piety, are signs of a vain religion. The man who has a slandering tongue, cannot have a truly humble, gracious heart. False religious may be known by their impurity and uncharitableness. True religion teaches us to do every thing as in the presence of God. An unspotted life must go with unfeigned love and charity. Our true religion is equal to the measure in which these things have place in our hearts and conduct. And let us remember, that nothing avails in Christ Jesus, but faith that worketh by love, purifies the heart, subdues carnal lusts, and obeys God's commands.
James 1:27
Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.

James 1 Matthew Henry's Commentary

 

[klutedavid]

It is very clear what the scriptures are talking about. God's 10 commandments are the KNOWLEDGE of GOOD and EVIL; and the standard of SIN and RIGHTOUESNESS. *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4; PSALMS 119:172.

God's people who are all those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD keep all of them through faith in God's WORD. *1 JOHN 2:3-4; 1 JOHN 3:3-10; REVELATIONS 12:17; 14:12; 22:14.

I agree that LOVE is the fulfilling [ESTABLISHING] of God's LAW it is not the doing away with it.

DOES FAITH ABOLISH GOD'S LAW?

ROMANS 3:31 [31], Do we then ABOLISH THE LAW THROUGH FAITH? GOD FORBID: YES, WE ESTABLISH THE LAW.

LOVE IS THE FULFILLING OF GOD'S LAW.

ROAMNS 13:8-10 [8], Owe no man anything, but to love one another: for he that loves another has fulfilled the law. [9], For this, You shall not commit adultery, You shall not kill, You shall not steal, You shall not bear false witness, You shall not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is summed up in this saying, namely, You shall love your neighbor as yourself. [10], Love works no ill to his neighbor: THEREFORE LOVE IS THE FULFILLING OF THE LAW.

God's true Church keep all of God's commandments through faith in God's WORD

Hope this helps.

An interesting post.

You believe that obeying the literal ten commandments is love. I believe that loving others automatically fulfills the requirements of the ten commandments.

We have a standoff.

Either obeying the literal ten commandments is our Christian goal, or loving others is our Christian goal?

One is the golden rule and the other is not.

Which interpretation is correct?

 

[klutedavid]

The one and only "Church" is not a building, not a collection of rules and regulations put together by men.... It is every true believer of Christ and His work on the cross.

But, far be it for me to get in the way of all the bashing of one denomination of another over infant baptism, baptism for salvation, salvation by works, the Holy Communion and the true flesh and blood of Christ, Perpetual virginity.... and on and on it goes.

It is almost an endless list of issues, but the substance belongs to Christ.

 

[lsume]

WHO IS GOD'S TRUE CHURCH ACCORDING TO GOD'S WORD?

Firstly I believe God has his people in EVERY CHURCH as long as they are living up to all the KNOWLEDGE God has revealed to them through his WORD.

JOHN 10:16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

However God is calling his people out from following man made traditions to worship God in Spirit and in truth.

JOHN 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

WHO IS GOD'S CHURCH?

IS GOD'S CHURCH A BUILDING or a CHURCH ORGANISATION?

Before we look at who God's WORD says is God's true Church let's start off by looking at the GREEK meaning of the word Church which is ἐκκλησία which means a calling out or meeting.

This links in very nicely with

MATTHEW 18:20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

A Church therefore is the people the BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD. They are the called out and Jesus is in the midst of them.

WHO IS GOD'S TRUE CHURCH ACCORDING TO GOD'S WORD?

1 JOHN 2:3-4
3, And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep <ALL> his commandments. 4, He that saith, I know him, and keeps not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

REVELATION 12:17
And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

REVELATION 14:12
Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

REVELATION 22:14
Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

Notice God's people keep ALL of God's Commandments through FAITH in Christ?

NOTE: God's saints keep ALL THE COMMANDMENTS of God. It is these people that are a remnant that the devil is making war with. They are called God's saints and these are the ones that have right to the tree of life.

How many Church's do you see keeping all of God's Commandments?

What are your thoughts?

God The Father’s True Church know who they are. When Christ comes to you as a thief in the night, that is the beginning of one’s journey to being born again. The Fear of The Lord is the beginning of Wisdom.

 

[Eloy Craft]

Catholics would say they are the true church that was from the beginning, others would dispute that. Others might say the true church is what they follow and believe through their interpretation of scripture. The true church is still here, but it depends what you define that true church to be I would say

Did the one in the beginning dissappear?

 

[Karola]

Did the one in the beginning dissappear?

The church is the body of Christ, that is still here.

 

[Uber Genius]

God's saints keep ALL THE COMMANDMENTS of God. It is these people that are a remnant that the devil is making war with. They are called God's saints and these are the ones that have right to the tree of life.

How many Church's do you see keeping all of God's Commandments?

1 Corinthians 3:12-15 says:
If anyone builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each person’s work. If what has been built survives, the builder will receive a reward. If it is burned up, the builder will suffer loss but yet will be saved—even though only as one escaping through the flames.

If only those who keep all of God's commands are the true church then Paul is wrong and we should recognize he is a false teacher.

The problem with the OP is that it attempts to collect the Biblical data in such a way as to forcing the reader to discard other inferences. But we want to look at all the data of scripture not just a selection that make one inference appear better. When we grab all the data, we find that many in the ecclesia are not perfectly obedient as the OP suggests.