WHO DO YOU FOLLOW THE TRADITIONS OF MEN OR THE WORD OF GOD (JESUS)?

[Natsumi Lam]

Colossians 2:14 says that Christ blots out those ordinances that were against us and he nailed them to the cross.

In Colossians 2:16-17 (still talking about the ordinances that have been blotted out): We are told not to allow anyone to judge us according to Sabbath days. Back in the Old Testament, you could be judged and even executed for disobeying the Sabbath. In the OT, a man collected sticks on the Sabbath, and he was killed. So things have changed. We are told not to let anyone judge us according to the Sabbath days (Which would include the weekly Saturday Sabbath). This means the Saturday Sabbath is no longer a binding command because we are not to allow anyone to judge us according to the Sabbath days.

Romans 14:5 says some regard all days the same and some regard one day over another. This is in regards to what a person considers to be a holy day of reverence for God. Some think they should reverence all days as being holy for God and others think it is the Saturday Sabbath and others think it is Sunday. The fact that Paul does not emphasize how we are to keep the Saturday Sabbath, and he says let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind on this matter suggests that the Saturday Sabbath command is no longer binding anymore.

IMHO

To blot out seems to mean it is no longer held against us by preventing us from reconciliation, not that we shouldnt willfully follow the commandments.

It is not saying we should forsake them, it is saying that the Cross removed the damnation of sinning against it.

God will never contradict His commandments.

 

[ewq1938]

Wait, im confused...where does it say in the Bible to no longer follow the Sabbath specifically?

Where was it commanded to gentiles? Or Christians?

Heb 10:8 Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;
Heb 10:9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.

The whole law was taken away and replaced by a new law. The old Sabbath rules no longer exist.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

In fact, the Jerusalem counsel was an event to clear up the problem of those who thought they had to be circumcised for salvation and to also follow the Law of Moses, too.

When the brethren said that they gave no such commandment to be circumcised and to follow the Law of Moses, they wanted to make a point out of the Law that it was good to do the following:

1. Abstain from meats offered to idols,
2. Abstain from blood,
3. Abstain from things strangled,
4. Abstain from fornication.

See Acts of the Apostles 15:1, Acts of the Apostles 15:5, Acts of the Apostles 15:24, and Acts of the Apostles 15:28-29.

If there was any good of time to stress the Saturday Sabbath command as being binding from the Old Testament, now would have been a good time to say that. But Colossians 2:14 says the ordinances were blotted out and Colossians 2:16-17 (still talking about the blotted out ordinances) says we are not to allow anyone to judge us according to sabbath days (Which would naturally include the weekly Saturday Sabbath).

 

[Natsumi Lam]

Where was it commanded to gentiles? Or Christians?

Heb 10:8 Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;
Heb 10:9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.

The whole law was taken away and replaced by a new law. The old Sabbath rules no longer exist.

Meaning we are no longer bound by the old law for salvation under offereings and sacrifices. Christ was our sacrifice of the new covenant unto salvation...not that we are to forsake Gods commandments. Even Jesus followed Gods commandments.

 

[Natsumi Lam]

In fact, the Jerusalem counsel was an event to clear up the problem of those who thought they had to be circumcised for salvation and to also follow the Law of Moses, too.

When the brethren said that they gave no such commandment to be circumcised and to follow the Law of Moses, they wanted to make a point out of the Law that it was good to do the following:

1. Abstain from meats offered to idols,
2. Abstain from blood,
3. Abstain from things strangled,
4. Abstain from fornication.

See Acts of the Apostles 15:1, Acts of the Apostles 15:5, Acts of the Apostles 15:24, and Acts of the Apostles 15:28-29.

If there was any good of time to stress the Saturday Sabbath command as being binding from the Old Testament, now would have been a good time to say that. But Colossians 2:14 says the ordinances were blotted out and Colossians 2:16-17 (still talking about the blotted out ordinances) says we are not to allow anyone to judge us according to sabbath days (Which would naturally include the weekly Saturday Sabbath).

I explained what blotted out means in context. We are not to judge...God does.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

IMHO

To blot out seems to mean it is no longer held against us by preventing us from reconciliation, not that we shouldnt willfully follow the commandments.

It is not saying we should forsake them, it is saying that the Cross removed the damnation of sinning against it.

God will never contradict His commandments.

No. Hebrews 7:12 says the Law has changed.
Colossians 2:14 says they were blotted out.
A person's name can be blotted out of the lamb's book of life.
Blotting something out means that it is taken out.
On top of that, it says these ordinances were nailed to the cross. Nailed. Put to death. That's pretty clear for me. Then there is Romans 14:5. On top of that, you have all the other verses that talk about how the Old Law is no more, too. It's like a big Neon sign (for those who want to see it).

 

[ewq1938]

Meaning we are no longer bound by the old law for salvation under offereings and sacrifices. Christ was our sacrifice of the new covenant unto salvation...not that we are to forsake Gods commandments. Even Jesus followed Gods commandments.

The law was taken away and the Sabbath rules were taken away as well.

Heb 8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

All of the old law is gone, including not working on a Saturday.

 

[Natsumi Lam]

No. Hebrews 7:12 says the Law has changed.
Colossians 2:14 says they were blotted out.
A person's name can be blotted out of the lamb's book of life.
Blotting something out means that it is taken out.
On top of that, it says these ordinances were nailed to the cross. Nailed. Put to death. That's pretty clear for me. Then there is Romans 14:5. On top of that, you have all the other verses that talk about how the Old Law is no more, too. It's like a big Neon sign (for those who want to see it).

Did Jesus follow all the laws of God?

 

[ewq1938]

Did Jesus follow all the laws of God?

Yes. I also have a question: Did Jesus live under the old covenant or the new covenant?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

IMHO

To blot out seems to mean it is no longer held against us by preventing us from reconciliation, not that we shouldnt willfully follow the commandments.

It is not saying we should forsake them, it is saying that the Cross removed the damnation of sinning against it.

God will never contradict His commandments.

Jesus even changes an OT Law Himself at the Sermon on the Mount.

38 "Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:
39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also." (Matthew 5:38-39).

In the OT, it was forbidden to eat unclean animals (Leviticus 11). But Peter was told by God in a vision that he could eat unclean animals (Acts of the Apostles 10:13-15) and Paul tells us that we can eat anything as long as it is sanctified by the Word of God and prayer (See 1 Timothy 4:4-5).

Paul says to the Galatians, if you seek to be circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing (Galatians 5:2). Yet, circumcision was a requirement as a part of the Old Covenant. If one was not circumcised in the OT, they would have been cut off from his people and they would have broken God's covenant (See Genesis 17:14).

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Did Jesus follow all the laws of God?

Well, Jesus was of a different priesthood order and not the Aaronic priesthood order. Granted, that does not mean He broke any of the laws in the Aaronic priesthood order.

Jesus changed certain Laws even before the cross because He is God and He has the authority to do that. When Christ died upon the cross, the Old Covenant (old contract) became no more and the New Covenant (new contract) went into effect.

Please carefully read each verse in Post #58. I know there are a lot of verses in there, but it makes it clear that the Old is no more and we are in the New Covenant.

For no man desires the new after having tasted the old
(Luke 5:39).

 

[Bible Highlighter]

@Natsumi Lam,

If you don't believe me, check out the many articles on this topic at Grace Community International. They helped me to see that we are not under the laws of the Old Covenant but we are under the laws of the New Covenant.

I would start with this article here:

The Old Covenant and the Law of Moses | Grace Communion International

Granted, I was not convinced by reading just one article. I read a couple of them and I prayed and then it became clear to me.

 

[Natsumi Lam]

I would really suggest researching what it meant by the old covenant and new covenant means.

Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill it. Matt 5:17

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I would really suggest researching what it meant by the old covenant and new covenant means.

Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill it. Matt 5:17

I am very familiar with this verse. Jesus did not come to destroy the Law in the sense of God's laws in general, but he came to fulfill the Old Law into it's true intended purpose with the laws given to use within the New Covenant. The laws in the New Covenant are superior. It focuses heavily on loving God and loving your neighbor, forgiveness, helping the poor, spreading the good news of our Savior Jesus, living a selfless life, turning the other cheek instead of an eye for an eyes, loving your enemies, etc.

 

[Natsumi Lam]

@Natsumi Lam,

If you don't believe me, check out the many articles on this topic at Grace Community International. They helped me to see that we are not under the laws of the Old Covenant but we are under the laws of the New Covenant.

I would start with this article here:

The Old Covenant and the Law of Moses | Grace Communion International

Granted, I was not convinced by reading just one article. I read a couple of them and I prayed and then it became clear to me.

We are not under the Law. That is correct. It doesnt mean they are abolished ...they are not imputed to us unto salvation.

Matt 5:17

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Think of the Law like an apple seed. If I were to destroy the Law I would take a hammer and smash the apple seed. But if I put the seed in the ground and let it grow into an apple tree, I am letting it fulfill it's intended purpose and bringing it to it's ultimate fruition or purpose.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

We are not under the Law. That is correct. It doesnt mean they are abolished ...they are not imputed to us unto salvation.

Matt 5:17

No. We are not under the Old Law.
The Old Law is no more.
Please see my verses in Post #58.
We are under the New Law in regards to salvation.
Unless of course you don't think the command in 1 John 3:23 applies to you in regards to salvation. But I do not think you believe that. There is also the Law of Faith. Are you under the Law of Faith? (See Romans 3:27). How about the command of repentance in Acts of the Apostles 17:30? Jesus said, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish. (Luke 13:3).

 

[Natsumi Lam]

0

No. We are not under the Old Law.
The Old Law is no more.
Please see my verses in Post #58.
We are under the New Law in regards to salvation.
Unless of course you don't think the command in 1 John 3:23 applies to you in regards to salvation. But I do not think you believe that. There is also the Law of Faith. Are you under the Law of Faith? (See Romans 3:27). How about the command of repentance in Acts 17:30? Jesus said, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish. (Luke 13:3).

I agreed ... we are not under the old laws unto salvation. We are under the New covenant unto salvation. Christ did not abolish the law, he removed the consquences of damnation through his death.

Ultimately, it comes down to the relationship. We dont have to follow the law under penalty of damnation. Christ blood removed the penalty. If we love Him we follow His commands. John 15:14

 

[Bible Highlighter]

We are not under the Law. That is correct. It doesnt mean they are abolished ...they are not imputed to us unto salvation.

Matt 5:17

Matthew 5:17 says,
"Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil."

Now, here is my commentary to the text in blue brackets.

"Think not that I am come to destroy the law [i.e. The Old Law or God's laws in general], or the prophets [the prophecies within the prophetic books]: I am not come to destroy [Jesus did not come to destroy the Old Law entirely], but to fulfil [Jesus came to fulfill the OT Law or God's laws into their true intended purpose with the giving of the New Covenant laws - which are superior]." (Matthew 5:17).

The Old Law is not completely destroyed because the Moral Laws have been repeated within the New Covenant Laws.

Romans 8:3-4 talks about the righteousness of the Law. We are to fulfill the righteous aspect or part of the Old Law by walking after the Spirit. The righteous aspect of the Old Law is to love your neighbor (Loving your neighbor is the equivalent of the Moral Law like: Do not murder, do not covet, do not steal, etc. - See Romans 13:8-10). James calls the law of loving your neighbor as the Royal Law (See James 2:8).

 

[Bible Highlighter]

0


I agreed ... we are not under the old laws unto salvation. We are under the New covenant unto salvation. Christ did not abolish the law, he removed the consquences of damnation through his death.

Ultimately, it comes down to the relationship. We dont have to follow the law under penalty of damnation. Christ blood removed the penalty. If we love Him we follow His commands. John 15:14

No. The Old Law is no more. It is abolished. Why do you think Paul was saying to the Galatians that if they seeked to be circumcised, Christ would profit them nothing? (See Galatians 5:2). Paul is taking issue with their trying to obey an OT command for salvation. However, in the OT, if a male was not circumcised, he would be cut off from his people and he would have broken the covenant of God (Genesis 17:14).

Yet, this is not the case with the Moral Law that has been repeated into the New Covenant. Paul says that if we break certain Moral Laws like murder, drunkenness, etc. we will not inherit the Kingdom of God (See Galatians 5:19-21).

Jesus says if we look upon a woman in lust, our whole body can be cast into hell fire (See Matthew 5:28-30).