WHO DO YOU FOLLOW THE TRADITIONS OF MEN OR THE WORD OF GOD (JESUS)?

[Bible Highlighter]

0


I agreed ... we are not under the old laws unto salvation. We are under the New covenant unto salvation. Christ did not abolish the law, he removed the consquences of damnation through his death.

Ultimately, it comes down to the relationship. We dont have to follow the law under penalty of damnation. Christ blood removed the penalty. If we love Him we follow His commands. John 15:14

Again, please see the verses in Post #58.

 

[Natsumi Lam]

Yes. I also have a question: Did Jesus live under the old covenant or the new covenant?

Jesus followed the commandments or He would be sinning under the law. He was without sin, to cover sin. Would Jesus ever go against the laws of God?

What would Jesus have to do during His life to sin? What was the yardstick that He had to follow to be sinless?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

0


I agreed ... we are not under the old laws unto salvation. We are under the New covenant unto salvation. Christ did not abolish the law, he removed the consquences of damnation through his death.

Ultimately, it comes down to the relationship. We dont have to follow the law under penalty of damnation. Christ blood removed the penalty. If we love Him we follow His commands. John 15:14

No. Not keeping His commandments relates to our salvation.

John 15:10 says that if we keep His commandments we abide in his love.

John 15:6 says, "If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned."

 

[Dorothy Mae]

PART 1

WHO SHOULD WE OBEY GOD'S WORD OR THE TEACHINGS AND TRADITIONS OF MEN?

The very same topics that we discuss here was also discussed in the day of Jesus. The mainstream preachers of Christ's time all claimed to be Children of God because their claim was that they were the Children of Abraham right? This was their claim to being God's people.

JOHN 8:33-45

[33] They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how say thou, Ye shall be made free?

They claimed belief on the God of Abraham, they claimed to be in bondage to no man. But what did Jesus tell them...............?

[34] Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever commits sin is the servant of sin.

[39] They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.

[40] But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham.41 Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God.

[44] Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

[45] And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.

There is more on this engagement between Jesus and the Mainstream God of Abraham preachers of His time in John 8.

Certainly the Pharisees studied the bible as it existed then. AS did Jesus.

LUKE 24:27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.

Yet these two factions, Jesus and the Mainstream preachers of His time had almost opposite understandings of the Bible.

It is fair to say not all Jews of that time had the same understanding as the Mainstream Preachers.

LUKE 1:5-6 There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth.

6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.

So there seems to be a trend here.

The Mainstream Preachers claimed to be God's people, they read God's Words, yet they "Transgressed the Commandments of God by their own doctrines and traditions." (Matthew 15:3-9)

Yet there is no indication that Zacharias or Jesus did this and followed them.

So we have one example of understanding that was gained by study in obedience to the instructions in God's Word, ( Zacharias and Jesus)

And another example of study in disobedience to the instructions of God's Word. (Mainstream preachers of that time)

There were more than just Zacharias.

MATTHEW 2:1-2
[1], Now when Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judaea in the days of Herod the king, behold, there came wise men from the east to Jerusalem,
2 Saying, Where is he that is born King of the Jews? for we have seen his star in the east, and are come to worship him.

Here is another example of people who had a completely different understanding than the Mainstream preachers of that time. Is it wrong to assume that they, like Zacharias, also studied in obedience to the instruction?

And Peter, which side of this topic did he fall on?

ACT 5:32-33 [32], And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.

[33] When they heard that, they were cut to the heart, and took counsel to slay them.

Now why was it that the Jews sought to persecute Jesus and the prophets? It was because they refused to obey the instruction of God, and created their own instructions, and the other example did not.

So fast forward to today. We have a Mainstream Christian teaching that "Transgresses the Commandments of God by their own traditions and doctrines."

This is not a judgment, rather, a simple fact.

It is Mainstream Christian Tradition to transgress God's Sabbath Commandment and replace it with the Catholic Sabbath (Sunday worship). It is Mainstream Christian Tradition to create images of God in the likeness of some long haired men's shampoo model, transgressing the first and greatest commandment.
It is Mainstream Christian Tradition to transgress God's Food Laws, and create their own definition of clean and unclean.

So it seems that even today, if a person studies in obedience to God's simple instructions he see's the scripture one way.

If a person studies scripture in disobedience following the traditions and teachings of man in place of God's Word and to God's simple instructions, he sees the scripture in another way.

I believe what Peter taught, that the Holy Spirit (Spirit of Truth) is given to those who do not "Transgress the Commandments of God by their own religious doctrines and traditions.

But I also know from Peter and Jesus that this belief will infuriate "many" who come in Christ's/God's name.

[23] "When they heard that, they were cut to the heart, and took counsel to slay them."

MATTHEW 10:22
And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endures to the end shall be saved."

My hope is that you might consider these words and understand.

JOHN 3:19-21
[19] And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. (Is it evil or righteous to transgress the commandments of God by doctrines and traditions of men?)

[20] For every one that doeth evil (Transgress God's Commandments by their own Traditions) hates the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.

Is this why the Mainstream preachers of Peters time set about to kill or silence Peter, so he wouldn't expose their transgression of God's Commandments?

[21] But he that does truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest,.(let your light shine) that they are wrought in God.

So a circle complete once again. Those who live a doctrine created (wrought) by God have a different understanding than those who live a doctrine created by man who follow the traditions of man. The above was shared with me recently by a friend. I hope it was a blessing to you as it was for me.

Some interesting Word from Jesus...

MATTHEW 15:3-9
[3], But he answered and said to them, Why do you also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?
[4], For God commanded, saying, Honor your father and mother: and, He that curses father or mother, let him die the death.
[5], But you say, Whoever shall say to his father or his mother, It is a gift, by whatever you might be profited by me;
[6], And honor not his father or his mother, he shall be free. Thus have you made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition.
[7], You hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,
[8], This people draws near to me with their mouth, and honors me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
[9], But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

According to Jesus if we follow the teachings and traditions of MEN over the WORD of GOD we are NOT following God.

.............

THE TRADITIONS OF SUNDAY WORSHIP HANDED DOWN FROM THE ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH TO PROTESTANTISM (CATHOLIC CONFESSIONS).

* Now the important question is who should we obey God or man?

................

Look forward to your comments.

Well, this was disappointing. Here I thought there was going to be something of value pointed out and all it turned out to be was a mere picking on worshipping on Sunday instead of Saturday and drawings of Jesus as the problem. One popular preacher literally said (I heard him) "you can sin like the Devil and still go to Heaven." He warned about losing rewards although neither he nor his audience knows what these are and if they are really worth the sacrifice of refusing sinful pleasures now. This is really a problem with the teachings of men. What day you gather to worship is unimportant in comparison.

 

[Natsumi Lam]

No. The Old Law is no more. It is abolished. Why do you think Paul was saying to the Galatians that if they seeked to be circumcised, Christ would profit them nothing? (See Galatians 5:2). Paul is taking issue with their trying to obey an OT command for salvation. However, in the OT, if a male was not circumcised, he would be cut off from his people and he would have broken the covenant of God (Genesis 17:14).

Yet, this is not the case with the Moral Law that has been repeated into the New Covenant. Paul says that if we break certain Moral Laws like murder, drunkenness, etc. we will not inherit the Kingdom of God (See Galatians 5:19-21).

Jesus says if we look upon a woman in lust, our whole body can be cast into hell fire (See Matthew 5:28-30).

Like i said...we are not under the old covenant which damns and impudes sin. We are under the new covenant that has forgiven sin and damnation.

The laws are not abolished...the consquences of damnation and seperation are.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Like i said...we are not under the old covenant which damns and impudes sin. We are under the new covenant that has forgiven sin and damnation.

The laws are not abolished...the consquences of damnation and seperation are.

Not at all.
The Old Law (contractually speaking) is no more. See Post #58; And breaking certain Laws given to us in the New Covenant is a salvation issue. See 1 John 3:15, 1 Corinthians 6:9-10, Galatians 5:19-21, Acts of the Apostles 8:22, etc.

 

[Natsumi Lam]

Not at all.
The Old Law (contractually speaking) is no more. See Post #58; And breaking certain Laws given to us in the New Covenant is a salvation issue. See 1 John 3:15, 1 Corinthians 6:9-10, Galatians 5:19-21, Acts of the Apostles 8:22, etc.

I agree.. contractually speaking.

 

[ewq1938]

Jesus followed the commandments or He would be sinning under the law. He was without sin, to cover sin. Would Jesus ever go against the laws of God?

What would Jesus have to do during His life to sin? What was the yardstick that He had to follow to be sinless?

You didn't answer my question. I answered yours.

 

[ewq1938]

Like i said...we are not under the old covenant which damns and impudes sin. We are under the new covenant that has forgiven sin and damnation.

And it has no rules about working on a Saturday, making fire on a Saturday, preparing food on a Saturday.

 

[Natsumi Lam]

And it has no rules about working on a Saturday, making fire on a Saturday, preparing food on a Saturday.

Ok...good the to know.

 

[Natsumi Lam]

You didn't answer my question. I answered yours.

I answered yours.

He was under the old. The new wasnt fulfilled and accomplished until he died. Dan 9:24. The edicts.

The old was His measuring stick to claim His sinlessness.

 

[ewq1938]

I answered yours.

I read your post but didn't see an answer. Did Jesus live under the old or new covenant?

 

[ewq1938]

Ok...good the to know.

It's true right? Can anyone cite scripture after the death of Christ that commands any of the old covenant rules regarding the Sabbath?

 

[Natsumi Lam]

N

 

[Natsumi Lam]

While alive, pre death..He was under the old. The new wasnt fulfilled and accomplished until he died. Dan 9:24. The edicts.

The old was His measuring stick to claim His sinlessness. His death established the new covenant.

 

[Natsumi Lam]

It's true right? Can anyone cite scripture after the death of Christ that commands any of the old covenant rules regarding the Sabbath?

Please read previous posts. This was answered.

 

[ewq1938]

Please read previous posts. This was answered.

Thank you. If Christ was born and lived under the new covenant, can you say he would have not worked on the Sabbath? The old Cov. being gone, what supports the old cov. Sabbath rules?

 

[ewq1938]

Please read previous posts. This was answered.

The question in this post was not answered.

 

[Natsumi Lam]

The question in this post was not answered.

It was.

 

[Natsumi Lam]

Thank you. If Christ was born and lived under the new covenant, can you say he would have not worked on the Sabbath? The old Cov. being gone, what supports the old cov. Sabbath rules?

Christs death established and initiated the new covenant. He would have to remain sinless under the law and the old covenant.

According to God's, not man's "keeping the sabbath holy"...he would have kept it holy as God intended. If working on the sabbath was against God...he would have not worked.

Hu?

The rules were not abolished. He did not come to abolish but fulfill. The sins of the law are no longer imputed. The old covenant in contract is no more. The new covenantt of His death has been established. Sin is no longer imputed.

Keeping commandments is about relationship...no longer damnation.