WHO DO YOU FOLLOW THE TRADITIONS OF MEN OR THE WORD OF GOD (JESUS)?

[Albion]

For me we are in agreement in relation to God's WORD. The bible is indeed the Word of God and as such as outlined in the OP we should believe and follow it over the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God as outlined by Jesus in MATTHEW 15:3-9 and also confirmed throughout the NEW TESTAMENT scriptures under the NEW COVENANT.

For me I cannot see any scriptures in the NEW TESTAMENT that says God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day. I have searched many times and cannot find a single scripture.

Hi. I thought about answering your question in some way other than I already have done, but then I thought about Googling the matter for a fuller treatment. As I expected, some entries were good and others pretty bad and a few were awful or else just failed to come to grips with what we have been discussing.

However, the following link is to one that I think does a very good job of addressing the matter, and I commend it to you.

https://christiananswers.net/q-acb/acb-t007.html

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Hi. I thought about answering your question in some way other than I already have done, but then I thought about Googling the matter for a fuller treatment. As I expected, some entries were good and others pretty bad and a few were awful or else just failed to come to grips with what we have been discussing.

However, the following link is to one that I think does a very good job of addressing the matter, and I commend it to you.

https://christiananswers.net/q-acb/acb-t007.html

Hi Albion, thanks for sharing your thoughts again, they are appreciated. I had a look at your link but I could not find a single scripture that says that God's 4th commandment is now abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day in it's place now could you?

 

[TuxAme]

Hi and welcome TuxAme, nice to see you and thanks for your comments but what if the man made teachings and traditions we receive and are expected to follow break the commandments of God and go against God's WORD? Should we then choose to keep following them or should we follow God's WORD?

If the men set above us demand that we break God's Commandments, we're not obligated to obey them. However, a situation like that is something which needs to be evaluated. If a leader says, "Don't obey the Commandments", that's indeed a problem. However, if they were to just offer, "No, that Commandment means something besides what you're thinking", we at least need to hear them out. They might have more understanding than us.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

If the men set above us demand that we break God's Commandments, we're not obligated to obey them. However, a situation like that is something which needs to be evaluated. If a leader says, "Don't obey the Commandments", that's indeed a problem. However, if they were to just offer, "No, that Commandment means something besides what you're thinking", we at least need to hear them out. They might have more understanding than us.

Hello brother TuxAme, I generally agree with your post here thanks for sharing it. I think it is very relavant as long as it does not lead one to break any of God's Commandments as outlined in JAMES 2:18-20.

The only thing I would add though if the other meaning was in relation to changing the Commandment and leads one to break any one of the 10 commandments is this teaching and traditions from men really from God?

I am sure that the JEWS in Jesus day believed that it was ok to break the 5th Commandment as long as offerings were made to the Church in the days of Jesus. Though Jesus said to them they were not following God by doing these things *MATTHEW 15:3-9.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts I enjoyed reading them and see where you are coming from.

 

[Cis.jd]

Hi and welcome TuxAme, nice to see you and thanks for your comments but what if the man made teachings and traditions we receive and are expected to follow break the commandments of God and go against God's WORD? Should we then choose to keep following them or should we follow God's WORD?

Why do you follow the NT canon (Matt to Rev)? Where in the Bible do you see it state by name that the true and only canon NT books are Matt to Rev? If you don't see these names mentioned and you still believe in these books to be the true and only inspired word of God, then you are following traditionn but don't realize/admit it.

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

Since worshiping (specifically having Eucharist) on the Lord's day has been present since the first century, it seems hardly viable to accuse it of being a late 'man made' 'Catholic' innovation.

If this be true, then we have to wonder at the integrity of the Church since it's earliest time if it was to be influenced on such an apparently important issue. So important to SDA that they accuse us of deliberately transgressing against God for our worship.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

PART 1

God's WORD says that the SABBATH DAY IS THE LORD'S DAY!

There is NO scripture that says Sunday or the FIRST DAY of the week is the Lords Day. God's Word says the Lord's day is the Sabbath day. This the day God rested on, he set apart and made a Holy day at the completion of the creation week and made a memorial for all mankind (Genesis 2:1-3; Exodus 20:8-11). Jesus is the God of creation and he is the Lord of the Sabbath day (Matthew 12:8; Mark 2:27-28)
AMEN!

Have you and/or others seen this thread yet?

REVE 1:10 "THE LORD'S DAY" IS THE PASSOVER?
REVE 1:10 "THE LORD'S DAY" IS THE PASSOVER?

What is the Lord's day symbolizing in Revelation 1.
I believe it could be the Passover of Jesus/Yahweh, but am open to other's views on it.
Here is the Passover event in Exodus:

Exodus 12:23
And Yahweh crosses/05674 `abar to strike the Egyptians and He sees the blood on the lintel and on two of the jambs
and Yahweh passes-over/06452 pacach the portal and not He shall allow the ruiner/07843 shachath/1842 oleqreuonta to come to houses of ye to strike.
[Luke 21:28/Revelation 9:11]

Exodus 12:2
“This month shall be your beginning of months; it shall be the first month of the year to you.

Leviticus 23:5
‘On the fourteenth day of the first month at twilight is Yahweh's Passover.

2 Chronocles 29:17
Now they began to sanctify on the first day of the first month, and on the eighth day of the month they came to the vestibule of the LORD.
So they sanctified the house of the LORD in eight days, and on the sixteenth day of the first month they finished.

1Corinthians 5:7
Therefore purge out the old leaven, that you may be a new lump, since you truly are unleavened.
For indeed Christ, our Passover, was sacrificed for us

Could the Lord's Day be the Passover of Jesus?

Revelation 1:10
I was in the Spirit on the Lord's Day, and I heard behind me a loud voice, as of a trumpet,

Egypt and the Song of Moses are both mentioned in Revelation:

Revelation 11:8
And their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great City which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our[fn] Lord was crucified.

Exodus 15:1
Then sang Mosheh and the sons of Yisra'el this song unto Yahweh, and they spake saying,--"I will sing to Yahweh for He is exalted exalted,--
The horse and his rider hath He cast into the Sea.

Revelation 15:3
and they are singing the Song of-Mosheh, the bond-servant of the God/Yahweh, and the song of the Lamb-kin, saying.........

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Why do you follow the NT canon (Matt to Rev)? Where in the Bible do you see it state by name that the true and only canon NT books are Matt to Rev? If you don't see these names mentioned and you still believe in these books to be the true and only inspired word of God, then you are following traditionn but don't realize/admit it.

Hi brother Cis.jd, some nice points you bring up here. However, I believe God has his hand in the development and production of the Bible as we see it today to give all of mankind a knowledge of his inspired Word that is relevant for mankinds salvation. Thanks for sharing your thoughts brother but I believe God has his hand in the development of the bible. Thanks for sharing your thoughts however brother. It is nice to see how others think.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Since worshiping (specifically having Eucharist) on the Lord's day has been present since the first century, it seems hardly viable to accuse it of being a late 'man made' 'Catholic' innovation.

If this be true, then we have to wonder at the integrity of the Church since it's earliest time if it was to be influenced on such an apparently important issue. So important to SDA that they accuse us of deliberately transgressing against God for our worship.

Where do you find that the "LORDS DAY" is Sunday in God's WORD? Is there any scripture that says that the LORD'S DAY is Sunday? No one is accusing you of anything brother. We are only disussing God's WORD here. Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

 

[Eloy Craft]

Jesus corrected traditions of men He didn't condemn or abolish them as tools to help the People of God to do what God commands. He taught that they mustn't be more important than doing what God commands.

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

Where do you find that the "LORDS DAY" is Sunday in God's WORD? Is there any scripture that says that the LORD'S DAY is Sunday? No one is accusing you of anything brother. We are only disussing God's WORD here. Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

Where do you find in scripture that the Lord's day is the Sabbath? Nowhere, thus we can only infer from the text and later sources what it could mean. Later Christian authors do not identify the Lord's day as the Sabbath. We also know that in Acts the Apostles did gather on the First day of the week to worship and have Eucharist. I don't believe John in Revelation was incapable of writing Sabbath and I also don't believe later Christian authors so misunderstood their worship that they somehow confused the day which the community primarily worshiped on.

Do not mince words or be polite either. You accusing those of us who do not primarily worship on Saturday to be in deliberate violation of God's law. Stick to it.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Where do you find in scripture that the Lord's day is the Sabbath? Nowhere, thus we can only infer from the text and later sources what it could mean. Later Christian authors do not identify the Lord's day as the Sabbath. We also know that in Acts the Apostles did gather on the First day of the week to worship and have Eucharist. I don't believe John in Revelation was incapable of writing Sabbath and I also don't believe later Christian authors so misunderstood their worship that they somehow confused the day which the community primarily worshiped on.

Do not mince words or be polite either. You accusing those of us who do not primarily worship on Saturday to be in deliberate violation of God's law. Stick to it.

So all we lowly gentile Christians have to do is explain to the Jews and Muslims what and when the Lord's day, mentioned in Revelation, is.........

REVE 1:10 "THE LORD'S DAY" IS THE PASSOVER?


.

 

[Albion]

Hi Albion, thanks for sharing your thoughts again, they are appreciated. I had a look at your link but I could not find a single scripture that says that God's 4th commandment is now abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day in it's place now could you?

We began with the claim that the word of God was not being adhered to in this case but that it was the traditions of the Roman Catholic Church being (for some unknown reason) maintained instead by most of the churches of Christendom.

In time, you reworded your own charge into one that argues that Scripture does not "abolish the 4th Commandment" and "command" believers to keep Sunday "in its place."

Not only is no one abolishing the 4th Commandment, but Sunday is not believed to be observed in its place, either. The New Testament, which is the word of God, approves of worship on Sunday, so it hardly can be true that something other than the word of God is governing this practice.

Your whole proposition by either version is in error.

 

[DamianWarS]

Hi Albion, thanks for sharing your thoughts again, they are appreciated. I had a look at your link but I could not find a single scripture that says that God's 4th commandment is now abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day in it's place now could you?

Jesus came to fulfill not abolish, so let's not force people into unscriptural language. The thing with the Sabbath is the logic of the law goes to our very breath as "work" and to truly keep the Sabbath we would have to stop breathing before sundown Friday and then start breathing again sometime after sundown Saturday... can you think of one who has done this? Does this act fulfill the Sabbath? What does a fulfilled Sabbath look like?

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Jesus corrected traditions of men He didn't condemn or abolish them as tools to help the People of God to do what God commands. He taught that they mustn't be more important than doing what God commands.

Hello brother Eloy, nice to see you again. Good points. If Jesus came to correct these teachings then it is a good lesson for us today to consider. I think if you look at Matthew 15:3-9 in this case the Jews were seeking to follow their own teachings and traditions above God's WORD. Jesus had some pretty hard things to say. He called them hyocrits that were not following God. Thanks for sharing your thoughts brother Eloy.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Since we seem to end up talking about the Sabbath, what was the reason for Jesus telling His Disciples to pray their flight would be on a Sabbath?
In the Roman siege of 70 AD, how would that have affected the Jews?

Matthew 24
19 But woe unto them that are with child and to them that give suck in those days!
20 And pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on a sabbath<4521>
21 for then shall be great tribulation, such as hath not been from the beginning of the world until now, no, nor ever shall be.

Mark only mentions winter:

Mark 13:
17 And alas for women who are pregnant and for those who are nursing infants in those days!
18 And pray ye that your flight be not in the winter
19 For in those days there will be such tribulation as has not been from the beginning of the creation that God created until now, and never will be.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

So all we lowly gentile Christians have to do is explain to the Jews and Muslims what and when the Lord's day, mentioned in Revelation, is.........

REVE 1:10 "THE LORD'S DAY" IS THE PASSOVER?
.

Hello LittleLambofJesus, when John was writing the book of Revalation he was sent to exile on the Isle of Patmos. Where does it say in God's WORD that the "LORD'S DAY is the passover or Sunday? It doesn't.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Hello LittleLambofJesus, when John was writing the book of Revalation he was sent to exile on the Isle of Patmos. Where does it say in God's WORD that the "LORD'S DAY is the passover or Sunday? It doesn't.

I never mentioned Sunday, [which you seemed to be obsessed with]...I mentioned the Passover...
When would that have been?

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Hi Albion nice to see you again and thanks for contrubuting here. Some comments for your consideration below.

We began with the claim that the word of God was not being adhered to in this case but that it was the traditions of the Roman Catholic Church being (for some unknown reason) maintained instead by most of the churches of Christendom.

Actually not entirely right. It was a tradition and teaching handed down to Protestantism by the RCC. Protestants were once Roman Catholics that came out from following the traditions of the RCC through the reformation of those who chose to follow God's WORD over the teachings and traditions of men. It seems they did not abandon all the traditions and teachings of the church (e.g. God's 4th Commandments)

In time, you reworded your own charge into one that argues that Scripture does not "abolish the 4th Commandment" and "command" believers to keep Sunday "in its place."

Indeed, where does it say in God's WORD that God's 4th commandment has been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day?

Not only is no one abolishing the 4th Commandment, but Sunday is not believed to be observed in its place, either. The New Testament, which is the word of God, approves of worship on Sunday, so it hardly can be true that something other than the word of God is governing this practice.

This statement disagrees with the historical confession of the RCC in the OP. Take a look at it, maybe you missed it? There is no approval in God's WORD and no scripture in all the bible that says we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day and God's 4th Commandment has been Abolished. If you disagree please post the scripture. If you cannot who should we believe God or the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God *MATTHEW 15:3-9 ?

Thanks for sharing your thoughts Albion. Only God's WORD is true and we should believe and follow them.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Jesus came to fulfill not abolish, so let's not force people into unscriptural language. The thing with the Sabbath is the logic of the law goes to our very breath as "work" and to truly keep the Sabbath we would have to stop breathing before sundown Friday and then start breathing again sometime after sundown Saturday... can you think of one who has done this? Does this act fulfill the Sabbath? What does a fulfilled Sabbath look like?

Hello DamianWarS, nice to see you again brother.

Who is forcing people into unscriptural language? The OP is about those who follow the teachings and traditions of men and the Word of God and who should we follow. If Jesus did not come to Abolish any of God's Commandments than do you think we have a right to break them in order to follow the teachings and traditions of men? Jesus had some hard words to say in MATTHEW 15:3-9 and accused those of doing this as being hypocrits who were not following God. It is God's WORD however that teaches that God has his people in ALL Churches who are following his WORD as much as is revealed to them. In times of ignorance God winks at but when a knowledge of the truth is come calls all men everywhere to repent and follow his Word *ACTS 17:30-31. It is up to us all to choose who we follow and all will be accountable to God alone come judgment day.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts brother.